Can't talk to my wife

What am I not trusting in her? That she won't keep doing the same thing over and over? That's the only thing I don't trust her on.

You imagined whatever would be offensive to you. Like I said before, everone has different thresholds of tolerance. It's flirting if I tell you please don't talk to specific people about specific topics, single men about your body, it hurts me. I used to be a drug addict. I think it's funny to still crack jokes about drugs. She's never taken a drug in her life and has expressed to me that it makes her uncomfortable. So I don't talk about drugs when I'm around her. I even stopped smoking cigars altogether, not just around her, because I want her to feel secure. I love smoking cigars, it's a relaxing hobby. So I found another relaxing hobby. No problem. If she is insecure about her body, talk about it with your girlfriends, co-workers, family friends. Talk about it with me. Or if it's so important to chit chat with unrelatable single men, if you would just die without them, talk about coronavirus or elections or football, not your butt or your thighs or your breasts or your even just your beautiful smile.

I am still working with my therapist. I am feeling very impatient right now. I appreciate all your help. You have been helping me alot and I'm sorry that I ranted on you. I hope you aren't offended. I don't know what else to do.

Ugh. My last 2 posts is really just the sound of me beating myself up. Sorry if I offended anyone. I criticize my relationship and then I feel worse. I really need some help!

Whatever it may happen in the future, from your posts in this threads, you are doing the best thing for you that is, working with a therapist to empower yourself and overcome your own issues. Of course, the ideal would be that your wife understood how you feel and instead of denied or distract, contributed with a a solution, complicity at these moments is very needed. She has needs but you also have your needs. You should feel listened in your own relationship. Maybe, she is not now ready or didn’t progress with her issues as much as you.

As I mention before you are taking the leads for yourself and who knows, maybe, she’s gonna realise of who she has at home with her . :-)

Sending you many strength.

I am not offended. I just don’t 100% understand your situation. I can’t imagine talking about my butt to men so I am a little taken aback.

I don’t know. I am the wrong person to advice. I have low tolerance for stuff that doesn’t suit me. I don’t believe kids benefit from watching parents being unhappy in their marriage. Kids always know. Life is too short to have anything less than what you want. But it’s just me. My opinion is not very popular on this matter.

@guy1111, I am going to offer a different perspective on this. A marriage involves compromises and sometimes even sacrifices in order to keep the marriage stable, happy and fulfilling.

I've read each of your posts in this thread, and the bottom line is: her behavior is HURTING YOU and it's in fact, harmful to the health of your marriage because you say her talking to single men effects how you behave in the marriage, ie, by distancing yourself more.

If you've expressed your hurt to her and she continues to behave this way, in my opinion she is being very insensitive to your feelings.

We cannot control or dictate whom another speaks with and we cannot dictate their friendships, but certainly, if speaking with single men HURTS you, my question is, WHY is she still doing this??

If I express something to my husband about how similar behaviors around other women effect me, you know what he does? He stops the behavior, out of love and respect for me. That is love and that is compromise. And we've faced this issue in many different ways. The way he responds is by respecting my feelings and wishes..

You yourself have made certain adjustments in your life or behavior because of how it effects her. But she's not giving you the same flexibility and level of caring in return.

Sure, you may have some issues to work on personally based on your past that you're working through, but she is pushing your insecurity buttons by doing this - and she is not showing that she loves you or respects you by curbing the behavior that causes you such pain.

In a marriage when we know that we are hurting the other person, ideally we adjust that behavior so we no longer hurt the person we love. That is what a healthy relationship involves. It means caring enough about the other person's feelings to avoid hurting them.

I also think it's pretty inappropriate for her to carry on interpersonal relationships with single men when in a marriage. To me it sends up a red flag. Does she seek out and need male attention from men who may desire her because they're single?

And WHY is she talking to these men about her body parts??? Does she want their sexual attention? Because that's what that will accomplish -- talking about her body with them will only make them want her more and it crosses boundaries.

So the question is for me is: WHY is she doing this and WHAT is she getting out of it? And why single men only? That also sends an alarm or red flag for me. Couples? Married men and women? That's one thing. So WHY ALL SINGLE MEN??? She's getting something out of this, and my most educated guess is she wants their sexual attention and desire. She is feeding off of it.

That's my two cents. I hope this somewhat helps you, I'm sorry for your pain, and I hope this gets resolved. Hugs to you.

I agree with you except I have to clarify. This will put me in a lesser light which is fine. I'm not trying to demonize her. But my main point remains true. She doesn't only talk to singe men this way. She is, like alot of women, very much into her body image. It is probably a source of self esteem for her, much like a man's job is for alot of men. I have made the distinction to her in order to try to help her out.

Our marriage counselor and my personal therapist and many other people have described a healthy tactic of having a codeword or signal when a partner is feeling uncomfortable about the conversation so the other partner can back out of or tone down the conversation. Then he or she can privately later on share their feelings. It sounds like your husband is the more outgoing partner and sometimes gets carried away in the moment. Very understandable.

My problem is that it's all denial. I've never once heard her say that she might have gotten carried away in a conversation. It's always that I am trying to control her. This is part of why I just let her decide everything now. She needs her freedom.

Well, I get mixed responses when I describe details that help a person decide which one of us is the "bad guy". Plus, of course I always try to be fair but her perspective is always going to be different.

I don't want the kids to see us unhappy either, but is it better to put them through divorce? We aren't fighting i front of them. We do lots of fun stuff together.

I don't fully understand what you mean here... in terms you being viewed in a lesser light.

Yeah, denial would really bother me too. I hear you. Sounds to me like she's stonewalling you.

And to me, that's a weak excuse on her part: "you're trying to control me". She's deflecting the responsibility of her own behavior back onto you, making it YOUR issue, not hers.

I think it's very insensitive, that she's seeking attention from men, and that she's making it YOUR problem and not HER issue. That's how I view it.

I would be super annoyed if my husband did that to me, and if his attitude was like, you're controlling and you're untrusting, when he's the one seeking out sexual attention from multiple single women. It would cause a huge problem in our marriage. In fact, if my husband's ego needed that much attention and stroking from other women, I probably never would have married him.

I think what this points to in fact is a deep insecurity on your wife's part since she needs all this ego stroking and attention from other men. Why isn't she in therapy to deal with her own insecurities and need for so much attention? Or is she?

Hi guy111, thanks for sharing more about your wife’s behaviors so we can better understand the dynamics of her behavior pattern that keeps triggering you.

From what you have shared it sounds like your wife is actually very insecure about her looks and needs constant reassurance that she has value and is attractive. Perhaps she is uncomfortable with herself and getting attention from these different men helps her have a sense of value and gives her permission to feel a connection to her own physical presence

It sounds like your attention alone is not enough to fill that need in her. That can most definitely be triggering for a person that suffers from ptsd that experienced emotional neglect and abuse.

Yes your analogy about hating spinach and yet constantly being expected to eat it despite your feelings about it does reflect how your feelings and opinions were devalued and undermined and you were instead forced to eat it to satisfy your parents needs.

This dynamic can most definitely leave a person constantly wanting THEIR chance to have their emotional needs heard and respected. And the other challenge is feeling that if you do share what is bothering you what you share will only end up being dismissed and undermined and you will get answers of “just ignore it or it’s not that bad”. Even worse someone may say “oh that never bothers me and they hand you more about how they don’t see it as a big deal etc. when they are saying “it doesn’t bother me and I do this or that”. Again the response is about THEM and not YOU.

It sounds as though to keep the peace you end up giving in and you kiss your wife and tell her how beautiful she looks. That’s very much like eating the spinach anyway even when you don’t like it and would like your feelings be respected.

You end up in an emotional tug of war and the other person always seems to win. So you always have to be the good guy even when it hurts.

Does that sound right to you guy111 ?

Often what happens when a child is expected to eat the spinach anyway even if they don’t like it and it makes them sick is they are trained to end up with that kind of person in their lives. The person doesn’t even realize how they may even choose this partner because it is familiar. And often they are appreciated at first because they fit what the spinach person wants.

A person that wants all the control and to have THEIR needs be a priority always looks for that good guy type person that gives in and constantly pleases the other persons feelings and emotional needs.

Sometimes without realizing it a person can be taught to SERVE others. As long as you serve that other persons needs you are good and may even get a tip now and then. But god forbid you fail to serve that person the way they need. Not only will that person be angry but they do not tip and they also proceed to tell anyone how awful YOU were because you failed to serve them the way they expect. This kind of individual tends to treat you as though your self esteem depends on how well you serve them. After all they are superior. They only see you in what you do to serve them. That’s the only time you get praise.

What contributed to my explaining this with you is how you shared all the things you stopped doing FOR her. And as you explain more of is what you do FOR her. This is why I think your pattern has been that of serving her as I have described.

Does this describe what you are trying to explain that leaves you feeling you do so much and still feel that emotional neglect?

I'm in a very similar situation with my partner. I was accused of being insecure and jealous, as he laughed it off.

Here is a portion of an email I sent him the other day in which I think you'll appreciate:

I've read most of this thread and don't think it's all about you. Yes, you have your insecurities and trauma that has nothing to do with her. She, as well, is adding to these feelings. She's totally gnawing at your insecurities with her own disrespectful behaviours because in those moments, all she's thinking about is herself.

My partner acts like a single guy, even when we're on an outing as a family (we have 2 toddlers). He will check-out other women even if they're with their partners.. even if he has to get past 'me' to get to 'them' (I'm 5'4" and petite, gawd).. even if they're not at all interested in his attention.. even if he's using me to get their attention.. and ALL he needs is a quick glance in his direction to feel validated.. and then he'll make some form of physical contact with me or asks me if "I'm ok"..

Anyway, I fully get you. No, it's not your problem. She does need to address this piece.

I’m sorry that something similar is happening in your own relationship. And good for you for calling him out on it and for standing up for your rights to respect. I agree with the thoughts in your email that you sent - 100%. Now what he does with that information? If he continues to do as he pleases and if he continues to hurt you in this way, he has no respect and no concern for your feelings. That’s just plain mean and hurtful.

And the same thing goes for the OP. It’s hurtful behavior and in my opinion it should stop simply for that reason alone.

Thank you!

The email wasn't specific for the women issue, though. We had been talking about honesty in which he replied saying he "never intends to hurt me". How is that even slightly correct? We've had countless discussions about honesty, trust, respect, boundaries, loyalty, you name it.. it's been said. I was offended by his response. So I wrote it out like this. He thanked me for the email.. said it was very well written.. and he was going to address it with his counselor. It's a step.

Guy111 do you feel that you are being heard by different members better? That’s what is important here in your thread.

That is a step!!! When one’s feelings of hurt are expressed explicitly, the caring, loving and respectful response should be: I’m sorry and I’ll be sure to not do that again. I don’t want to hurt you. I love you and want you to be happy..

LOL I have to laugh because I hear these words on a regular basis. This time though, he's addressing the right topics with his counselor.

(Sorry for the hijack)

Giy111 would your wife read the kind of letter that MsLady wrote to her partner? Sometimes reading it in written might be helpful as it allows time to process the information

It’s a step in the right direction

Words become meaningless if their actions do not match the words. What matters most is changed behaviors once it’s been discussed. If a pattern keeps repeating itself with the same hurtful behaviors, it’s a problem. Trust also goes out the window when behavior doesn’t match the words. Know what I mean?

That’s a great suggestion for the OP!

Yes, I will address everyone as I have time. Thank you so much! I feel better. I feel scared, but more understood!!

That’s actually good that you shared the fear you are experiencing. In the example you gave it showed how your feelings were ignored and instead you had to eat the spinach anyway. Also another challenge with that tends to present as if you can’t just deal with that then you are weak and you are not a strong person.

It can be hard when you are constantly expected to think about the emotional needs of others and when it comes to your own there is very little genuine caring and comforting and respect. Instead it’s more about don’t feel and just deal and eat the spinach.

It sounds like your wife keeps sending you the same message of “you are not enough”. Even though you love her and let her know she is beautiful that’s not enough and she looks for that elsewhere. You are not enough to fill her ego. Yes that can hurt and you would like that hurt heard instead of ignored.

When someone suffers from emotional neglect the last thing that person wants to hear is “don’t feel comments”.

I have an extremely abusive and narcissistic older sister. Things she has done has genuinely traumatized me. The last thing I need is to have another person say to me is how a toxic person like my sister would not bother them. And that other person proceeds to go on and on about themselves without realizing that all that person is doing is undermining my trauma and hurt and deeply disturbed emotions. To make matters worse I have even experienced this same kind of presence even joke about it. All that does is only further undermine my hurt and often even can suggest I am actually stupid for ALLOWING such a toxic presence to hurt me.

What can be triggering about experiencing that kind of response is that it’s actually the same kind of mentality that caused the hurt in the first place.

I have a strong feeling that is part of the fear you have when you do try to share. This is especially true when a person struggles from ptsd resulting from emotional neglect and abuse.

With all that being said guy111 it very well may be that your wife will always need reassurances from several individuals and that one individual will never be enough for her. That can be hard for a person that desires being enough to filling that kind of need in another person. It CAN produce a lonely feeling and a feeling of not being adequate enough.