[Anandi]

So, I am up at 4am in my time zone because I am afraid and I am not sure if I should be calming down or running.
I have been dating a guy for a year. We were introduced by friends and I very early on knew he had a backstory - abusive home, rebel teen, joined the Chinese mafia but got out in his early 20s due to his mafia boss stealing his gf. He then became a Christian.
The relationship has been pretty great. Mostly drama free, fun, he makes me very happy. We don't really fight. We have been able to resolve conflict before it's a big deal. The primary challenge until this week has been his business as an entrepreneur and his working himself into exhaustion frequently so we don't get as much time together as I would like.
All along I have been trying to get a sense of how much his past still impacts him. He is into self help, and his church has done some prayer-based treatment for him over the years. To my knowledge, however, he has never seen a psychotherapist.
Over the course of our relationship he has shared with me two incidents of his getting physical when losing his temper. One was a Kung Fu student, another was a young adult employee. Both times have been controlled after a point -

Possible trigger:

pinning to the wall choke hold with no beating.

He has felt guilty and asked me to pray for the other person each time
Each time I have asked questions around it to assess my own risk of his getting violent with me, but the things that he said triggered him are things I never do. And he told me even if I did, he would never hurt me.
So, recently my cat died and he has stepped up sacrificially to be there for me. He is also an animal lover so he gets it. On Saturday he surprised me with an extra date and when I expressed suprise said that he knew I was going through a hard time and wanted to be there for me.
So during the date he opened up in an unprecedented way and told me some time ago he had to stop watching horror films because he found he got a rush out of watching bad guys hurting people. He said when watching action films he always identified with the villain. And that he had a

Possible trigger:

fascination with serial killers

and had been watching some interviews and documentaries. Basically he has recognised a dark part of himself from his reactions to childhood abuse.
Tonight he called me before bed when we usually pray together and his primary prayer request was about how in the past few days he had watched too many of these documentaries and he felt it was impacting his subconscious mind. He said part of him feels he will end up as a

Possible trigger:

serial killer.

And when I asked him how scared I should be, he said I didn't need to be afraid and he hoped he hadn't scared me too much. That was 3 hours ago and I have been compulsively reading on the topic.
And I guess what I am wondering is, how normal is his response for a childhood physical/emotional abuse survivor? I have no frame of reference to be able to process this information to know how serious it is.

Possible trigger:

As a teen and young adult he was violent with family members, and was a bully as well as a gang banger.

But he has long ago (nearly 20 years) left the gang, reconciled with his family and worked hard on his relationships. He has a dog who he is very kind to. His work is focused on helping kids like he was find job opportunities so as to not end up where he did.
He is not emotionally expressive but has shown empathy with me. He is socially a bit awkward, but has solid friends and has connected with mine as well.
Could this be an echo of an angry past, where part of him is reacting to former powerlessness? Or is it a sign of something far more serious?

[Have Hope]

There's enough red flags here to get out and to get out NOW. I would not analyze him OR his childhood trauma. What good will that do you? Point is, he has a violent past, he has been violent while he's been with you with other people. he is thinking violent/homicidal thoughts, and that's enough information for you to get away and to get away from him QUICKLY, LIKE NOW. This man is dangerous and could very well act on his fantasies. He is bad news!!!!!! LEAVE HIM ASAP is my advice!!!!!!!

[Bill3]

I have no idea how typical his thoughts and behavior are for someone with his background. Typical or not, though, there are two things that particularly caught my eye in what you said:

1. He has a lot going on in his mind that troubles him and you and yet, evidently, he has not seen a psychiatrist or gotten an assessment. He apparently isn't seeking help despite the seriousness of what is going through his mind.

2. You find yourself doing explicit risk assessments of your boyfriend, in order to judge how safe you are with him. You are here asking us for assistance in that regard. Neither you nor we are professionally qualified to make such assessments, yet your life could depend on them.

If you are considering continuing the relationship, in my mind it is imperative for both you and he that he seek assessment, and help as needed, from a psychiatrist.

He should be willing to share all of the findings of the psychiatrist with you. And in looking at those findings, you must remember that the psychiatrist has him as a client, not you. I think therefore that you would be wise, right now, to begin to discuss the situation (and the findings if/when they are available) with a different clinician, for whom you yourself are the client.

[Open Eyes]

Ok so you have just been dating and have no commitment yet. Not living with him right?

You can work on distancing from him. What he is sharing is concerning. He should be getting help for these thoughts he has been having. You can’t really help him with that and should not be expected to do so.

[divine1966]

There are more red flags here than on May Day parade on Red Square in Moscow. I’d not try to guess if he is dangerous. You might never know. Until it’s too late

He might not be violent towards you though. Lots of serial killers and gangsters are loving towards their families. Him loving his dogs or cats is neither here nor there. Hitler loved his pets. Psychopaths and sociopaths are often unable to connect to other humans so they find substitutes in pets and are known to be loving towards them. it doesn’t make them less dangerous.

We can’t tell you what to do but I think you can have a happy life with a more suitable partners. This man isn’t commitment material. Would you want kids with him? I hope not

[winter4me]

Trust your feelings.
I think if you are scared, that is enough.
If he has concerns about his thoughts and inclinations you certainly should. This is something that requires intervention beyond prayers---he really needs to have someone skilled to work on these issues with him.

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by Anandi

So, I am up at 4am in my time zone because I am afraid and I am not sure if I should be calming down or running.

..how in the past few days he had watched too many of these documentaries and he felt it was impacting his subconscious mind. He said part of him feels he will end up as a serial killer.

I think these quotes are the most important pieces in your situation.

1) You're afraid
2) He "WILL" end up as a "serial killer", according to his feelings.

I also question why he's telling you all this. I'm wondering if instilling fear and uncertainty in you is part of this rush. I worry his true self is just now starting to emerge and may feel that your kindness, loyalty, and love for him is enough for you to stand by him.

It's best for your safety and sanity to get out now. Sorry.

[LonelyWithYou]

That fact that he was in a gang and his past abuse does make him dangerous but he also could be really trying to better himself. Go with your gut feeling in this situation. Have you talked to him about this and the way you're feeling? Why does he feel like he'll end up a serial killer is he really that angry at someone. Who would he want to kill and why? You need to find out those questions. Honestly if someone I was dating told me that I'd be really freaked out because I would not want to be with someone who wants to hurt other people.

[Anandi]

Thanks. It is very tempting to do a risk assessment especially because I am a therapist (alternative prayer-based) who works at a counseling center. But because I am not a psychiatrist or a clinician I don't have the knowledge I need for this. If clients come to me with this kind of issue I refer them to a coworker for assessment. Besides, this is someone I thought I loved.
I talked to my bf over the phone yesterday afternoon and told him I needed him to get assessed. He was surprised but as I explained he understood and agreed. For that reason, and that reason alone, I did not break up with him. Not yet.
I am also seeing my therapist on Saturday, and will talk to him about this at length. There is no way I am ignoring this, and I am prepared to break up. Just horribly disappointed about it. I am 41, single, never married and have had a whale of a time finding a good man. And I thought I had found one. T.T

[Anandi]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Ok so you have just been dating and have no commitment yet. Not living with him right?

You can work on distancing from him. What he is sharing is concerning. He should be getting help for these thoughts he has been having. You can’t really help him with that and should not be expected to do so.

We are dating seriously and have discussed marriages not as an if, but as when. As Christians, we don't live together before marriage. (Some modern Christians don't stick to this, but my bf and I have).
And yes, yesterday when I talked to him over the phone I told him he needed to get help. He was surprised but did not resist. I am waiting on follow through though. He can be slow with follow through in general.

[Anandi]

Originally Posted by divine1966

There are more red flags here than on May Day parade on Red Square in Moscow. I’d not try to guess if he is dangerous. You might never know. Until it’s too late

He might not be violent towards you though. Lots of serial killers and gangsters are loving towards their families. Him loving his dogs or cats is neither here nor there. Hitler loved his pets. Psychopaths and sociopaths are often unable to connect to other humans so they find substitutes in pets and are known to be loving towards them. it doesn’t make them less dangerous.

We can’t tell you what to do but I think you can have a happy life with a more suitable partners. This man isn’t commitment material. Would you want kids with him? I hope not

I thought I did - we had discussed marriage and children. Regarding the pet thing, I had been reading that serial killers would torture animals. That's why I mentioned that detail, but I didn't know about finding substitution and that scares me. Because he has told me that he talks to his dog more than he talks to anyone, except me.
Re happy life with a more suitable partner - true. It doesn't feel true as a never married 41 year old woman who is a racial minority in a country whose culture frowns on interracial relationships. But I am also very happy on my own.

[Anandi]

Originally Posted by winter4me

Trust your feelings.
I think if you are scared, that is enough.
If he has concerns about his thoughts and inclinations you certainly should. This is something that requires intervention beyond prayers---he really needs to have someone skilled to work on these issues with him.

Totally agree. He was surprised yesterday that I was upset. And that I suggested therapy - at least getting assessed by a professional. Because of my work as a prayer minister (prayer-based therapist), he also thought I would be able to just know. He now knows: 1. I am not trained to evaluate risk in terms of homicidal ideation, 2. Even if I was, my feelings for him make me the wrong person for the job.
He's agreed to see a therapist. I am hoping he will follow through ASAP.

[Anandi]

Originally Posted by MsLady

I think these quotes are the most important pieces in your situation.

1) You're afraid
2) He "WILL" end up as a "serial killer", according to his feelings.

I also question why he's telling you all this. I'm wondering if instilling fear and uncertainty in you is part of this rush. I worry his true self is just now starting to emerge and may feel that your kindness, loyalty, and love for him is enough for you to stand by him.

It's best for your safety and sanity to get out now. Sorry.

Thanks for your honesty.

I wasn't sure if he was trying to be honest. Trying to see if I can accept him. Or if he wanted my professional assessment (I am not a clinician, but I am a professional prayer-based therapist). When we talked yesterday, he was surprised by my fear. And he said he was already "okay". He told me no more documentaries for him. And that when he stopped watching it the thoughts went away immediately. That's weird for me too, actually. An emotionally normal person would be shaken up by that kind of darkness. It wouldn't just go away.
He agreed to get assessed and I am going to see my therapist to talk about it.
But yes, I am prepared to walk away. I hate it. I thought I loved him. I thought I was going to marry him. But better to be alone than unhappy.

[Bill3]

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by Anandi

And he said he was already "okay". He told me no more documentaries for him. And that when he stopped watching it the thoughts went away immediately. That's weird for me too, actually. An emotionally normal person would be shaken up by that kind of darkness. It wouldn't just go away.

I agree. It also doesn't address the "serial killer" issue. If he has that much control to just shut it off in his head, he wouldn't feel he "will" be one, one day.

Also, what makes me uncomfortable is the flexibility of his time. He's an entrepreneur so he's often at "work" and you don't live together because you're both Christians. There's nothing wrong with this under any other circumstances but due to this truth, how would you know he hasn't acted on anything yet? Are you confident he's been where he's said he's been?

[Anandi]

Originally Posted by winter4me

Trust your feelings.
I think if you are scared, that is enough.
If he has concerns about his thoughts and inclinations you certainly should. This is something that requires intervention beyond prayers---he really needs to have someone skilled to work on these issues with him.

Originally Posted by LonelyWithYou

That fact that he was in a gang and his past abuse does make him dangerous but he also could be really trying to better himself. Go with your gut feeling in this situation. Have you talked to him about this and the way you're feeling? Why does he feel like he'll end up a serial killer is he really that angry at someone. Who would he want to kill and why? You need to find out those questions. Honestly if someone I was dating told me that I'd be really freaked out because I would not want to be with someone who wants to hurt other people.

Thanks, this is really helpful. I have had one conversation about my feelings on this. And these are important questions.
Before we had talked at length on forgiveness and he acted like he didn't understand people that didn't forgive others and that it came easily for him. And it really has felt like he can "switch off" negative emotions. He's seldom obviously upset about anything for long. It was something I both envied about him and also worried about - like how much has he supressed?

[Anandi]

Originally Posted by LonelyWithYou

That fact that he was in a gang and his past abuse does make him dangerous but he also could be really trying to better himself. Go with your gut feeling in this situation. Have you talked to him about this and the way you're feeling? Why does he feel like he'll end up a serial killer is he really that angry at someone. Who would he want to kill and why? You need to find out those questions. Honestly if someone I was dating told me that I'd be really freaked out because I would not want to be with someone who wants to hurt other people.

Yes, I absolutely need to ask these questions.

Originally Posted by MsLady

I agree. It also doesn't address the "serial killer" issue. If he has that much control to just shut it off in his head, he wouldn't feel he "will" be one, one day.

Also, what makes me uncomfortable is the flexibility of his time. He's an entrepreneur so he's often at "work" and you don't live together because you're both Christians. There's nothing wrong with this under any other circumstances but due to this truth, how would you know he hasn't acted on anything yet? Are you confident he's been where he's said he's been?

I'm not confident he's been where he says he's been at all times. I have no way of confirming it. We live 3 hours apart by public transport. I have never been to his company or met his employees. Nor his Kung Fu brothers. I have only met his family, his business network friends, and his church small group. He has never met my family, and has met only a handful of friends. They all liked him overall but he was so painfully shy around them, they wouldn't be able to guage his character.

We talk about schedules in the sense of - so how was your day? Or what did you do today? When he does share his details are consistent. But there are many times where he says what he did was boring. Or he just wants to pray.

Our time is very controlled, which didn't concern me before, but does now. He gives me exactly 30 minutes per phone call. 15 to talk about life, 15 to pray together. He has said he wants to call me every day. It's ended up about 4 times per week. I stopped initiating phone calls ages ago because his lack of responsiveness stressed me out. We have exactly one date a week. It was 6 hours, but over the last 6 months has dropped to 3. He has changed the day of the date 3 times in the last year, due to his work schedule. I fortunately have a very flexible schedule so I have been able to deal with it. But this thought - I just can't even process.

Two more days until I can see my therapist. The pain I am feeling is off the charts. I am barely sleeping or functioning. I just can't believe this is happening.

[~Christina]

Please get out of this relationship RIGHT NOW... There is nothing but red flags.

Stay safe

[TunedOut]

While I do believe in the power of God to turn people's lives around, there are people in this world (you may be one of them) who love everyone and don't comprehend evil because they have had no experience with it. I am not saying your boyfriend is evil (only God can judge the condition of his heart) but just saying that you may not fully understand what is going on. Pray for protection and for the ability to make the right decisions in this matter. I am not sure but sometimes wonder if we are exposed to some situations so that we understand the destruction and hate that evil does in this world. IMO it makes us understand God's love more. Your boyfriend surely understands and perhaps has turned around but your anxiety is surely telling you something. You will need to trust him before you can marry him. Trust is very important when you are married. Also consider this, if he is making a living in a way that breaks any legal or moral law, you will always feel guilty about spending any money that he might one day provide for you. If he is involved in anything illegal, you could be dragged into it in some way.

[divine1966]

To all honesty it doesn’t sound like a relationship let alone relationship with any kind prospect. 4 times a week he “gives”you 15 minutes to talk to him and then he decides when to see you for 3 hours a week. So in addition to him having violent tendencies he gives you crumbs. He either already have a girlfriend or just likes to control you by giving you so very little. Time to end this charade

[Open Eyes]

It's important to understand that a person that can be dangerous and is unbalanced may engage in some kind of religious activity/group or idealizations. Have you paid attention to this woman that got deeply involved with a man who got more and more into a religious cult like mindset? They just FINALLY found her two children buried on his property after they went missing for several months. He drew her into a state of religious craziness and that has happened with people. A red flag happens to be the ability to switch off the emotions like you have described too. If you were to observe this mother who is in custody and is facing charges, she sits in the courtroom cold and shut down and disassociated and disconnected.

There are individuals that go the religious route looking for some type of "supreme" state of mind. They begin to think they are special and have special powers. That's NOT someone you want to be around, that's someone who is mentally unstable and potentially dangerous. This man and this woman killed their spouses and she got rid of her own children and felt it was ok to go off to Hawaii and marry this man so they could embrace this supreme state of imaginary religious crazed mindset.

Yes!! There are important deeply concerning red flags in what you are sharing here about this man. These individuals "can" be intense and can pull you in, it happens and it's so important to pay attention.

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by Anandi

I'm not confident he's been where he says he's been at all times.

..he was so painfully shy around them, they wouldn't be able to guage his character.

But there are many times where he says what he did was boring. Or he just wants to pray.

Our time is very controlled.. He gives me exactly 30 minutes per phone call. 15 to talk about life, 15 to pray together.

I stopped initiating phone calls ages ago because his lack of responsiveness stressed me out.

We have exactly one date a week. It was 6 hours, but over the last 6 months has dropped to 3. He has changed the day of the date 3 times in the last year, due to his work schedule.

I can only guess what's going on which I won't. I do think something is up by these quotes, alone.

You have every reason to be scared and concerned. Something is off. Hopefully your therapist can guide you through the best way to break up with him so you're not at risk.

Please listen to your gut instincts!

[Bill3]

I too was troubled by the words that MsLady bolded above. Even if nothing else were going on in the relationship, the level of structure, rigidity, and control indicated by those words would concern me.

Each time I have asked questions around it to assess my own risk of his getting violent with me, but the things that he said triggered him are things I never do. And he told me even if I did, he would never hurt me.

This particular comment has been troubling me, on two accounts. First, he makes it seem like if someone triggers him then his violent response is what they can expect (except for you, supposedly). And secondly, if he were to become triggered by you, how can he know for sure that his promise to never hurt you would prevail over his triggered rage?

If it were me I would not wait to get a psychiatrist's diagnosis or reassurance, etc. What if the psychiatrist said he was fine? It sounds like that's important to you, but he sounds dangerous. I would just run in the other direction from this guy period. However, I think you may need to be careful, if you decide to leave. Could someone leaving him be a violent trigger? You may need to find a secure way to protect yourself if or when you decide to leave, and plan for a way to protect yourself beforehand. Can you get a restraining order where you are? Are there structures in place to protect you?

[Anandi]

So he called me yesterday and we had a two hour conversation. He had no empathy for my fear and made no attempts to calm me.
Instead he turned very critical of areas that he feels I have not measured up as a girlfriend. He also told me that he has no feelings for me and never had. And that the best I could hope for was to deem me as someone important in his life. He ridiculously blamed his acceptance of a loveless marriage on culture. (As if I am ignorant of a culture that I have lived in for nearly 26 years). He has been lying to me about the state of our relationship for 6 months.
When I asked if he was breaking up with me, he said he wasn't sure and he wanted time to think about it. I asked how he would want a cooling down period to look like. He also didn't know and said he would let me know today.
But as soon as we hung up, I had clarity. I don't need any cooling down. My opinion hasn't changed. This relationship is over. I was in love with a man who doesn't exist. All there is, and perhaps ever was is this cold hearted bastard. I have no words for how much this hurts.
I am ready to end this. I plan to be kind and respectful. I plan to say it's about different expectations and incompatibility. And to let him know for the sake of my moving on, I am not okay about friendship (he said if we broke up he still wanted to help me on a project he had promised to help on, no).