Is Ethical Non-Monogamy an option?

My point is that Islam sanctions more than one wife a form of non-monogamy..

It’s marriage. Not extra marital sex. Not the same thing at all.

I haven't read this entire thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating a question.


I had a relationship outside of my marriage (I was open about it; my husband was angry, but not angry enough to make changes. So.) I had very much enjoyed sex with my husband, but he neglected me and our marriage so hurtfully that I had stopped being sexually active with him.

So my question is, why doesn't your wife want to have sex with you? There absolutely has to be some reason(s)- maybe to do with you, maybe to do with herself, but something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mf1438 Where is an expert when you need one? Has anybody here successfully negotiated an open marriage? I can share the details offline. Summary: I'm living with the woman I love but due to some issues we stopped having sex years ago. I'm looking for some help to investigate ethical non-monogamy as a mutually agreeable alternative. No sex IRL, but would like some latitude for sex online. My wife says something as innocuous as sexting is cheating. What's a sex starved "happily" married man supposed to do? I'm all ears. Thanks for listening.

Others said, this, but I will repeat it. If your wife does not agree to your plan it is not a "mutually agreeable alternative."

If the two of you are not able to have intercourse for physical reasons, there are ways of pleasuring each other. If something happened between you that lead to the current situation, what about couples therapy to deal with the issue?

I wonder what’s all this really about. I looked up your old threads and now remember that I already read it. You’ve been asking about wanting to have lovers or FWB of cybersex for years now.

Even when your wife still had sex couple of times a month, you claimed it was not enough and you needed to have cybersex with strangers. It makes me wonder if your wife completely stopped sex after she discovered that you talk to a random woman online?

Also let’s be realistic perhaps when you started demanding more sex than she was able to provide in her 60s (which was a reasonable amount) she just stopped it all together. In addition she discovered you have online encounters with women-platonic of sexual, those encounters were clearly not something she supported

Is this really about your wife not wanting sex all of a sudden or is it about you wanting cybersex regardless how often your wife has sex with you. It sounds like there’s more to the story

Yes, I am looking for an emotional connection too. It is strange the way it comes to me. If I make a sexual connection, I miss the emotional connection to. If I make and emotional connection, I have a tendency to want it to go sexual. The purpose of the consent agreement is to set firm boundaries to stay within. I want to keep platonic relationships non-sexual and any sexual activities consensual.

My sexual need are not greater than my desire to stay married. That is why I'm still married.

I'm looking for ways to stay married without totally giving up on my sexual needs.

What is it you really want from us? The only person whose opinion matters in this is your wife's. A lot of what you say sounds like a lot of double-speak. You can't masturbate but you can have sex with someone you're not married to, for religious reasons. You cite a lot of inaccurate "interpretations" of other religions. Can you explain why your wife no longer wants to engage in sex with you? Have you gone to couples counseling?

What has your wife said exactly about you having sex with other women? She didn't like you sexting other women, so I doubt she will be open to cyber sex. This whole thing is very confusing, and I get the impression you are trying to frame extramarital sex as something other than cheating to ease your conscious. But that's just how it's coming off to me. I don't say that to accuse you, but to make you aware that you're coming off that way and maybe there's something to look at there. Why can't you get a divorce?

I found cyber sex to be satisfying, especially via video. It is like couples in LDR.

"how do you reconcile it with your religion that you’d be engaging in sexual encounters outside of your marriage? Would they not consider it a sin?"

Yes, that is why I'm working on consent agreement. It is not a sin if it's "blessed" by my wife. It like special dispensation from a priest.

"Can you explain why your wife no longer wants to engage in sex with you?" She lost sexual desire after menopause. She never found sex to be satisfying. She is bitter from me cheating on her.

It may sound like double speak, but this is the way my sexual desire currently works. I'm in therapy and working on changing it. Sex "by myself" is only marginally satisfying. Sex with another, with a "partner in crime" is more enjoyable. I think it has something to to with oxytocin, the "cuddle hormone". Sex alone brings dopamine. Sex with another adds oxytocin. Making that connection is more satisfying.

"What has your wife said exactly about you having sex with other women?"
She equates cybersex as sex with other women. She said, No. Unacceptable. It's cheating.

"you are trying to frame extramarital sex as something other than cheating to ease your conscious."

Yes, if you are not poly friendly and open to ethical non-monogamy it would sound confusing. Some people, including my wife, consider cyber sex to be extramarital sex and cheating. However, if my wife accepts cyber sex as a reasonable alternative to total sexual abstinence then it would ease my conscience and would not be considered cheating. Married people have some latitude in setting the ethical boundaries of their marriages. Societal norms are evolving.

"Why can't you get a divorce?"
I'm a sucker for unconditional love. I would rather give up sex for life than give up on my marriage. A friend of mine has prostate cancer and with the prostate removal he ended up with impotence and incontinence. My brother-in-law has prostate cancer and he's dealing with impotence. They are both still married. I want to stay married without giving up sex for life. Cyber sex is actually a compromise position for me. Giving up sex IRL was the first major sacrifice I made several years ago with the hope of saving my marriage.

Your wife sounds like she knows where she stands and it sounds like you're trying to pressure her to become someone / something she's not (poly).

It does not sound like you love and accept your wife "unconditionally," imo. To do that, you'd have to respect her enough to leave her alone about it while not having sex with anyone else.

There is nothing confusing and I don’t see a single person on here confused about anything. It’s nothing to do with us being this or that. We are not the ones married to you. For it to not be cheating and be ethical, both partners have to agree. She does not agree. Trying to convince us that she must agree will not make her agree to it

She is “bitter” about you cheating? Interesting choice of word. You really don’t sound like you love your wife as much as you say you do. You won’t masturbate even though it would be acceptable for her, as it’s acceptable by most people on this planet. Yet you insist on sex with strangers despite the fact she is against it. What kind of love is that

Also cyber sex with strangers, or any sex with strangers is not polyamory at all. It’s just that, sex with strangers.

Pretty much you want what you want as you said d it yourself you preoccupied with cybersex/addicted to cybersex and want us snd your wife to give you a permission.

This has nothing to do with your wife not having sex because you wanted extramarital sex while she was still sexually active.

Why anonymous sex with strangers is more satisfying than human connection (not sex, just connection with people) for you? Are you having trouble connecting with people in real life?

Work with a therapist on the roots of the problem.

Cheating is never ethical.....even if both parties agree.

“Polyamory (from Greek πολύ poly, "many, several", and Latin amor, "love") is the practice of, or desire for, intimate relationships with more than one partner, with the informed consent of all partners involved. It has been described as "consensual, ethical, and responsible non-monogamy".

^If you are not having sex with you wife, how is she included in Polyamory? With her, you have non-sexual love, affection, she cooks and cleans for you? With others, you have sex, virtual or otherwise? You wife has no sex at all?

I remember you from posts a year ago or so. They were the same dilemma. What have you changed since then? How has this time worked during your marriage? Have you been having guilt-ridden sexual relations without her consent or abstaining from sex altogether? You say you wife is bitter from your cheating. Is that really why she won’t have sex with you? The menopause excuse is sketchy. There are so many things people can do to enjoy sex and have pleasure. It sounds like your wife likes the security being with you brings her, but closed up to you sexually....maybe as punishment. This is not a healthy marriage.

It sounds like you are struggling between lust and wanting to feel like a righteous person. You’ll have to make some choice for yourself to escape from this uncomfortable situation.

This pretty much sums it up.

There have been many posts asking questions and I've tried to be as honest and straightforward as possible. It's not easy sharing personal perspectives to see them sliced and diced in an online forum. Even under a cloak of anonymity, it takes a lot of vulnerability and transparency. A feat unto itself of me.

Thanks to all who shared their opinions here. If I may sum things up, it goes like this.

Accept your wife the way she is, no sex IRL and no sex online. No partner sex and no cybersex with strangers either. You can only be intimate with one person at a time, your wife, and if she doesn't want to be intimate with you, if you love her you would give up sex.

To love unconditionally means that you accept a person the way they are and don't try and change them.

Change yourself to fit within the boundaries of monogamy and don't try to change your wife to fit within the boundaries of ethical non-monogamy.

Take it or leave it. If you want extramarital sex, give up your marriage and get a divorce. That's the right and proper thing to do.



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We're going to therapy on BetterHelp after the first of the year. We need some help to reconcile our differences. We both with to change the other person into someone else, someone they don't want to be. And neither one of us wants to let go of what we have.

And yes, I have trouble forming relationships IRL too. I vacillate between anxious and avoidant insecure attachment styles. Hopefully the counseling will help me overcome this character flaw too.

Again, thanks for sharing your perspectives.

Happy Holidays!

...or you can just masturbate. At least for now. Because really what you want is a permission to masturbate but in front of a stranger on a screen. Unsafe as they might be filming you and distributing images btw (and that happens all the time). Good luck with therapy. That’s a good step

So basically you're looking for a way to manipulate/bully her into agreeing to something she doesn't want in her marriage by hammering the "grey area" until she gives up.

It's just childish, really. You are an adult. Either work within the limitations of your marriage or get divorced. I don't really care why it's "not an option." Those are your choices. Pick one or the other.

I'm glad you're going to get therapy. FWIW, I'm not against open marriages, but it's kind of like a bait and switch. Your wife didn't sign up for that, and now you're demanding it. I get that she's asking you to live without sex, and that's not acceptable to you. But she's finds it unacceptable for you to go outside the marriage. Frankly, this sounds irreconcilable. I do agree with Molinit that it seems like you're trying to manipulate her into letting you go outside the marriage. I know you don't want a divorce, but it's not fair to her to make her live with something she doesn't want either. You really seem oblivious too, to the fact that you cheated on her already - you don't think that impacts how she feels about anything? When you were sexting this woman 8000 miles away, it sounds like she wasn't aware that you were doing that or okay with it - to her that likely had the impact of cheating (and if it wasn't with her consent then it was cheating). It sort of sounds like you've done a lot behind her back without talking to her, and perhaps the reason she doesn't want to discuss it is because you've already betrayed her.

I hope for you that couples therapy helps sort out these issues one way or another because you both actually sound miserable. I know you've said elsewhere that your marriage is heaven, but if you're devoting so much time to dealing with sexual needs and even cheated on your wife, then it's not really, is it? You don't have to be miserable for the rest of your life and neither does she.

Excellent post Seesaw.