....*deep breath*...... OK-- this is hard for me(as I don't feel so comfortable being this open)........

Well, I was wondering, does anyone know or have info on the age in which offspring aren't so influenced by the parents? is it 18 years old, or maybe 21 or maybe even 25??

I worry and well, maybe I shouldn't worry-- at least not for this reason-- that my husband is being a very bad example and might influence our college aged sons to think that being staggering drunk at home, nightly, is OK.

Could it be that they are past the age of critical influence? and maybe I'm worrying more than I need to?....... I sure don't want them to carry on like their dad is chances are they won't have a partner that puts up with it....... so this whole situation could be setting them up for failure.....

then I worry that I REALLY need to confront my husband in front of them so they can understand what it does to the person that is trying to keep "the boat afloat"... and if I don't then I am also enabling such behavior......

oh, this is such a difficult thing for me......... and with so much other stresses and stuff......... I worry that I'm not seeing things with the best insight......

anyone that can lend an idea, view or opinion... I'd be much appreciative.

thank you,
mandy (ps. yeah, for those that know me- I'm still hopelessly struggling with this...*sigh*.....)

[Rhapsody]

I personally believe kids are highly influenced by the actions of their parents when they are of a young age and while it can still happen at any age it tends to has less of a pull to it from the negative influence being seen when they are older.
I would be more concerned if your husband drank (got drunk) around your son when he was younger.

[Perna]

I don't think there's any age when we're past being influenced by those around us, especially those we live with. Too, if he's there father there are things that can be inherited and a propensity for alcohol is one of them.

[sabby]

I think what worries me the most is the fact that your kids are college aged....where tons and tons of drinking and other illicit drug activity happens, and your husband is verifying that it's ok to be falling down drunk.

I believe are children are influenced by what their parents do at any age. Of course as they grow and mature they are able to make more of their own decisions, but they still see everything and take it in.

I think a serious sit down with your kids explaining to them that what they see in their father is not acceptable behavior and that you will deal with the situation as you see fit is in order. No making excuses for his behavior....no excuses for them if they choose to behave in the same situation. It's a loving thing to do for them.

I wish you all well mandy and I do so hope things will straighten out with your husband soon.


sabby

thank you Rhapsody for your time and reply.

It's odd(maybe a blessing in a strange way) how he's waited until our sons were teens to become regularly intoxicated. They didn't see THIS father when they were real young. He was a workaholic back then. they rarely saw him at all........

mandy

Well, I suppose you're right about people being influenced by others at any age...... just young minds just seem more impressionable and..... I guess I, inside myself, was hoping that just maybe they won't take the road their father is going down because they might be old enough to see it's direction........

I'd like to think that the inherited part(I also have immediate family members that are alcoholics) will skip them.... but, I know, I can be a dreamer.

thank you for your reply Perna-- I always appreciate your insightful posts.

mandy

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I think what worries me the most is the fact that your kids are college aged....where tons and tons of drinking and other illicit drug activity happens, and your husband is verifying that it's ok to be falling down drunk.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Yeah, you have a VERY good point sabby. I sure don't want them to get that message.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I think a serious sit down with your kids explaining to them that what they see in their father is not acceptable behavior and that you will deal with the situation as you see fit is in order. No making excuses for his behavior....no excuses for them if they choose to behave in the same situation. It's a loving thing to do for them.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> this is what I'm so afraid of..... his background is such that his parents worship the land he walks on...... it's so difficult for him to actually "hear" that he has a flaw. somehow, the confronting usually gets all turned around and then- mysteriously I become the bad one. I'm trying so hard, I limit myself to one glass of wine a night now, hoping he'd follow....... I just recently started back in therapy and am hoping I'll get some help there too.

Just have so so much other stuff to deal with....... ugh.....

Thank you for your reply sabby, it's helpful.

[salukigirl]

kids are highly influenced by their parents at all ages I think. how they take the influence is different at different ages. I know what youre feeling because thats my dad in a nut shell. A lot of kids would take the dad being drunk and think that means its okay. But me... I am almost terrified to drink now. I will never allow myself to have a beer if I get the thought that "i need a beer".

It really depends on the kids. Some kids take being abused and then abuse their children. Some kids take it and say "i will never treat my kids like that". I think more often than not its following in their parents footsteps and it takes a special person to realize "i dont want to be like this" and do the opposite.

as others have said, being in college is enough pressure to drink and do drugs. But even if you and your husband were prefect good-doers who never slipped up, they probably would still drink and do whatever. I think being open with them and asking them is the trick.

[Rhapsody]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
mandyfins said:
It's odd (maybe a blessing in a strange way) how he's waited until our sons were teens to become regularly intoxicated.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I have found that many people wait until they are older and have a lot more stress upon on them from family, friends, work, health, money etc before they start to drink as a means to numb the pain or thoughts they are having...... I wonder if there was someone in your husbands life that drank a lot to deal with their life issues?

BTW - my father was an alcoholic for most of our child hood and while five out of six children do not drink - the youngest of us all took up drinking to try and solve his life issues when he turned 30 years old.
Go Figure!

[50guy]

Impressions are made throughout life but, especially before age 7. I don't know why it is so but, it is. I never drank in front of my kids when they were young. One drinks and the other dosen't. To this day I do not consume alcoholic beverages in front of my grandkids unless it is a glass of wine with dinner. I mean A glass of wine.

I do have a weakness for Johnny Walker and fine scotch on weekends. I do limit my intake and sometimes I don't touch it at all. I look at it as a take or leave situation.
It sounds like your DH is drinking every night and if that is so then he has a problem and needs help. Staggering drunk is unacceptable at any time. One does not need to be falling down drunk to enjoy oneself.

Have a nice chat with your kids and then with the DH and see what can be resolved, otherwise an intervention with his parents may be necessary.

Good luck,

[bebop]

hon if he is a bad drunk I mean him being mean and such as that the kids will probably not drink much if any at all. although going to college they are going to spread their wings but hopefully will remember their dad and how he is when he is drinking. I wish you all the best hon.

[youOme]

I think people are influenced by their parents more then anybody else at any age...still I look up to my mother for guidance and I am a 22 year old college student.

[Ocean13]

IMO Honesty is the best policy. You, your husband, and your children need to have 'the talk' about what you are concerned about. If there's not a neutral setting for you to do it in I'd suggest some type of family counseling to help you discuss it in a guilt free zone.
Sadly, alcoholism can be passed on eiher by genetics or influences. These influences are not just from the home. It's in the people they hang with, live with, etc. Right now it's a part of college life.
Once you are able to have the 'talk' with your children their fate is then in their hands.
Stay strong-Be honest!

Best of Luck!!

Ocean

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
mandyfins said:
....*deep breath*...... OK-- this is hard for me(as I don't feel so comfortable being this open)........

Well, I was wondering, does anyone know or have info on the age in which offspring aren't so influenced by the parents? is it 18 years old, or maybe 21 or maybe even 25??

I worry and well, maybe I shouldn't worry-- at least not for this reason-- that my husband is being a very bad example and might influence our college aged sons to think that being staggering drunk at home, nightly, is OK.

Could it be that they are past the age of critical influence? and maybe I'm worrying more than I need to?....... I sure don't want them to carry on like their dad is chances are they won't have a partner that puts up with it....... so this whole situation could be setting them up for failure.....

then I worry that I REALLY need to confront my husband in front of them so they can understand what it does to the person that is trying to keep "the boat afloat"... and if I don't then I am also enabling such behavior......

oh, this is such a difficult thing for me......... and with so much other stresses and stuff......... I worry that I'm not seeing things with the best insight......

anyone that can lend an idea, view or opinion... I'd be much appreciative.

thank you,
mandy (ps. yeah, for those that know me- I'm still hopelessly struggling with this...*sigh*.....)

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

salukigirl-- </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Some kids take being abused and then abuse their children. Some kids take it and say "i will never treat my kids like that". I think more often than not its following in their parents footsteps and it takes a special person to realize "i dont want to be like this" and do the opposite.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Yes, I agree with you. I think it's so good that you see the best direction-- so many don't/won't see that. I only hope my sons are like you. (and thanks for the PM-- you're so insightful and kind)

Rhapsody,-- </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I have found that many people wait until they are older and have a lot more stress upon on them from family, friends, work, health, money etc before they start to drink as a means to numb the pain or thoughts they are having

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> hmmmmm.... I've not thought about this but I bet you are right. I believe my husband numbs the stress and his thoughts.
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I wonder if there was someone in your husbands life that drank a lot to deal with their life issues?


</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Well, his own father drank heavily for a few years, but when husband was about 12 years old, his father got a DUI-- lost his license for 3 months and learned a lesson. He only drank after that in moderation..... so you'd think husband would have learned the lesson of NOT drinking-- seems he only paid attention to the part of "ill-coping".

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
my father was an alcoholic for most of our child hood and while five out of six children do not drink - the youngest of us all took up drinking to try and solve his life issues when he turned 30 years old.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> so sorry you had to live with that. I find it amazing that only one out of all of you became alcoholic. There are seven in my family and three of my siblings are/were alcoholics...... and about yours being the youngest..... hmmmmmmm... my former T. had a theory-- he said that he has seen more "last" born(youngest) in his office than any other birth order-- he postulated that more last born have mental struggles than other birth order people. I don't know if it's true but it sure makes sense from where I'm coming from..... I'm last born, my husband is last born, and his father is also last born. I think last born can feel less in control, be abused by others(bigger siblings) more, and helplessly view as the family dysfunctions play out in too young of a mind to handle all that is going on.

50guy,-- </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I do limit my intake and sometimes I don't touch it at all. I look at it as a take or leave situation.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Now that sounds like you are at a healthy place-- wish you could talk to my husband..... oh wait.. I guess that's my job, isn't it. ......

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Have a nice chat with your kids and then with the DH and see what can be resolved, otherwise an intervention with his parents may be necessary.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Well, I have had some surface type chats with my kids. And I have had some real deep, down to the point chats with DH-- to no avail. he apologizes and then a few days later....... we're right back where we started.... him staggering and me being so so very sad. About the intervention--- I don't believe his parents would agree to such a thing-- they worship him and won't hear of anything negative about him-- I have tried- in a "looking for advice" type way-- and they've told me to lay off-- that he is under a lot of stress and that I should feel sorry for him and ignore it....... but I can't! I don't feel it's in either of our best interests to ignore it-- nor for our sons. Maybe they think it will just go away...... I was hoping so too..... but I'm really having my doubts now.

bebop, He is hardly ever a "bad" drunk and so far he is still a functioning one-- though I'm not sure how much longer that will last. My sons really don't see too much negative in their father's behavior presently-- or am I just down playing it all?? been told by several specialist that I tend to minimize things too much.
I start feeling upset and then it's "numb city" for me, I don't mean to-- it's just the feelings and confusion get feeling like I'm in "overload", inside myself.

Thanks for your reply-- I know you've heard me "complaining" before-- sorry I've not solved this yet. *sigh*.......

youOme, </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I think people are influenced by their parents more then anybody else at any age...still I look up to my mother for guidance and I am a 22 year old college student

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Yeah, I think that's a very good point-- thank you. I think it's great you have your mom to look to for guidance. (I think that's part of my struggles-- never had any guidance at any age and so to this day I still get confused )

Ocean13, </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
IMO Honesty is the best policy.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> I agree with you too. And I do speak honestly to my husband and let him know I don't approve.... just maybe he doesn't take me seriously or doesn't think it's a problem....... </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Stay strong-Be honest!

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> I will try my hardest! thank you.

[seeker1950]

Mandyfins...
I read your post yesterday, but I was at a loss as to how to respond. I do know I would be very concerned if I were you!
I agree with others here that we are influenced by our parents at any age, and your sons are still vulnerable to be influenced by their dad. Even as young adults, they still need positive role models. I hope you will talk to them!
Love,
Patty

Thank you Patty.

I'm so not good at this "relationship" stuff. I see I do need to talk to my sons, just not sure how to go about it....... maybe I'll bring that up in therapy-- I need all the help I can get.

thanks again,
mandy

[Sultrysorrow]

I believe it can happen at any age. Although until your children (child) is on their own they can make their own decisions. And weather it was influenced or not, they do have a choice.

[AAAAA]

Mandykins,

Well your kids could go the absolute other way. I saw a lot of alcohol abuse growing up and made the decision that I didn't want to chance becoming an addict myself.

But I'm with everyone else. Adult children still look to their parents for guidance and advice. But I think as they get older, it more of a "how will mom react to this"

Thank you Sultrysorrow and AAAAA. I appreciate your replies and insights.

Well, I went to lunch with my older son today- before he goes back out of state to college......... I talked about things and then led up to -- last night, Husband(dad) was slurring drunk and speaking like a strict dictator to the two sons. In talking with my oldest today, he said, "Mom, I left the room last night, I'm not going to put up with that kind of drunk attitude"...... I told him he doesn't have to ...... but........ it makes me feel so sad....... I've always wanted a close family-- I never had that growing up-- I wished that my children would feel close to both mom and dad.

I'm trying to protect that dream and trying to protect my husband from his own children not caring for him, and trying to protect my children from disappointment.

How can I do all that??

So much on my mind....... just slept for one hour last night...... so tired.... so so sad......

[seeker1950]

Mandyfins, you said, "I'm trying to protect that dream and trying to protect my husband from his own children not caring for him, and trying to protect my children from disappointment. "

I'm worried about YOU too! It sounds like you are trying to cover for your husband in his behavior, but, remember, he is making this choice, not you! You need not make excuses for him or "enable" him in this lifestyle.

Sorry if this sounded harsh. Your sons need a strong parental figure to speak the truth to them!
Love
Patty

[sabby]

(((((((((( mandy ))))))))))

I completely understand how sad you feel about this situation. It must be breaking your heart.

Your husband is an adult. He makes his own choices. You make your own choices. You can choose to stand beside him and offer your assistance to him and your undying love, yet at the same time you can make it clear that you will not fall prey to being the wife of an alcoholic. In other words, you will not protect him from his children, his family, his boss or from the law (if it ever comes to that).

Your children are old enough now to "see" what is truly going on. They don't want a mom who will smooth over the rough edges....and they NEED a mom who will be honest with them about their dad's drinking. Whether your sons decide to have a relationship with him or not at any given time or not is completely up to them and there is no guilt that you should be feeling over this. This one is on your husband for his actions.....not on you hon.

One thing I tried to do with my daughters as they were growing up with an alcoholic father was to keep the communication open with them. I allowed them to come to me and complain and cry and do whatever they had to do to deal with his abuse. I also let them know that it's ok to love their dad, but they didn't have to like him and his actions.

And at the same time, YOU and your health are very important here too. I understand how you think that your dream of a close family is ending. It doesn't necessarily mean the end is here mandy. It may mean that there is a change in the path....a change in where your energies need to go.....but it certainly doesn't need to be the end. There are countless opportunities in your life. This may be just a bump in the road for awhile....who knows.

I really feel that you could use some support outside the home with dealing with your husband and kids. It's important to know that you don't have to be your husband's enabler when he is drinking. (protecting him from his kids is a form of enabling) There are ways for you to be able to stand on your two feet and draw the line as to what you are willing to put up with and what you aren't. I hope that you might consider Alanon or something along that line to help you "see" what your husband's drinking can do to a family...and to YOU.

My prayers are with you and your family that you can all find some peace and some help.

*Gentle Hugs*
sabby

Oh, I'm sorry to have been delayed in my reply

I think that when I share, like in a post, the situation and feelings become "real"..... and-- well, this may sound a bit odd-- but, I'm not used to "real"--- so used to going numb and mentally escaping--- it takes much energy to remain in a situation and deal with "feelings". I've not much expereince with it. have always felt 100 steps behind most people.

anyway,.... I've pushed myself back here....

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
It sounds like you are trying to cover for your husband in his behavior, but, remember, he is making this choice, not you! You need not make excuses for him or "enable" him in this lifestyle.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Yes, I think maybe I am "covering" a bit for him. I had to be the strong one as a child and young adult-- had to let others lean on me and take care of them and take drastic measure to make others lives OK...... perhaps I need to work on what is helpful and what is "enabling".

It so scares me that my oldest son could be losing respect for his father....... what is a young man that doesn't respect his father??-- a lost soul???

You didn't sound harsh to me Patty, I so appreciate your insight and sure, sometimes things can be hard to see/hear-- but it's not always the easy route that ends in happiness and healing.

thank you for your support and honesty, means a lot to me.

mandy

also Sabby-- I apologize for my delay.

Yes, this situation IS breaking my heart.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Whether your sons decide to have a relationship with him or not at any given time or not is completely up to them and there is no guilt that you should be feeling over this.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> that is a big part of it....."guilt"..... I'm supposed to take care of things..... I've ALWAYS took care of things.....Like for one, when I was a child, dad in ICU with severe heart attack--- I tried hard to make things right for mom..... I told her things will work out as she cried.... I took care of things. As a teen I couldn't save the woman in the fasst moving river-- me the lifeguard-- if I can't save --- bad things happen........ it feels my fault......

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
One thing I tried to do with my daughters as they were growing up with an alcoholic father was to keep the communication open with them. I allowed them to come to me and complain and cry and do whatever they had to do to deal with his abuse. I also let them know that it's ok to love their dad, but they didn't have to like him and his actions.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Gee, that is so lovely. You are a wonderful mom. (I really mean that)

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I understand how you think that your dream of a close family is ending. It doesn't necessarily mean the end is here mandy. It may mean that there is a change in the path....a change in where your energies need to go.....but it certainly doesn't need to be the end. There are countless opportunities in your life. This may be just a bump in the road for awhile....who knows.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> OK-- I will try to see it this way.... maybe it's a new begining...... or a bump in the road...... I sure hope so.

As far as outside help-- I have just recently started therapy-- but with the holidays and all I've not been able to go too much yet...... the therapist did write me on the calendar once a week for the whole month of January... maybe talking to a therapist will be a good direction, *crossing fingers*...

thank you Sabby for your support and kindness.

mandy