Hindsight is 20/20

I don't doubt that he loves his mother. After my mother died, I spent a month staying with my father. Then he told me he would be alright on his own. So I left. In. some cultures, it's normal for a widowed woman to live with an adult child. But we are not one of those cultures. Plus, she's young enough to have a new S.O. herself, so she would not be struggling on her own.

It seems to me that he can't make a move without her knowing all about it. Even if he didn't actually live in her basement. I think that would still be the case. He's not financially dependent on her. But he sure sounds abnormally involved with her. Even if it seems like she is dependent on him, it sure seems like the dependency goes two ways. Was he ever married or in a committed relationship before? If so, I wonder how that worked out? I'll bet his mom has strong opinions about any girlfriend he's ever had. I think a relationship with him would always be a "trio," even if he was living on the other side of town.

Yep that’s what I always told him, in other countries this would be normal but we aren’t other countries. She’s got a boyfriend who she’s comfortable keeping at a distance and her son doesn’t like her bf either!

The basement was his dads office space so it’s an in law unit that could be rented out. It could be entered from the side door without ever having to go through the house .

No never married and never moved beyond dating.

One time we got in an argument about him having to defend me before his mom because she wondered why I wasn’t coming over or why I didn’t want to greet her, I don’t know.

I remember when she gave him a duffel bag for sleepovers . She was totally encouraging the relationship, as if exchanging sleepovers was a relationship.

As I mentioned to the other poster and I think even to you is we have the added complication of working together, being given time off together.

What a mess.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond .

I do know it’s good to have a safe space to talk about our issues even if they seem redundant. I’ve lost sponsors in other programs over relationships before so I’m very aware of that sometimes things can be too much. I’ve gotten in trouble in other communities too for posting about prior relationship troubles. My previous relationship was *much worse* then this one which is why I thought I had done well until things started coming to light.

Unless he pays mortgage and utilities and property taxes and home owners insurance etc or rent and utilities etc (substantial not just a bit) , he actually is dependent on his mom. If not her, he’d have to pay his own way and I am sure it would cost much more. When adults say “I live in my parents’ house but I don’t depend on them”, I want to ask let’s look at your bills and what your bills would be if you lived completely alone. Not even comparable. So yes he depends on his mom.

I know how much he pays and it’s more then me at least for rent, as I am in a below market rate unit. In fact I’m not sure if his mom could pay the mortgage without him as she’s retired, widowed and he’s working. However I have said the same thing to him, I bet you I am paying more then you with rent + phone + electric + internet + cell phone + streaming media , and his “rent” payment covers all that.

His mom has made it so he doesn’t have to interface with the real world, he even pays his rent in cash. He is dependent on her as a “beard” so he can be pretty much untraceable .

leomama,

Wow, what a complicated situation. I guess it would've helped if I read that you work with this dude. That is very difficult and complicated. I have often felt grateful that most, if not all, of the women that I work with are either married or way older than I. I could not imagine how difficult it must be to have to work with this man after all this mess.

Regarding his mother....He is very lucky to have his mother in his life. I lost my mother 11 years ago and would give anything to have one day with her. It is obvious that she enables him and possibly stunted his social growth by how much she cares for his needs. He is also very lucky that he has had the opportunity to have romantic episodes in his life, considering the amount of doting his mother gives him. I don't wish ill on anyone, but he is in for a rude awakening the day his mother passes.

Regardless, use this forum, as do I to vent...feel free to vent

--Sarc

Yeah he probably feels the same way you do about his mother especially since his father died suddenly.

Yes I work with him and he is well liked at work, not by everyone, but everyone that is female . The only 2 people I’ve heard say anything negative about him are male. He’s very charming (and arrogant).

It’s actually not a mess because of how I’m holding it together. I think I will actually have to leave to fully break it off. I haven’t lost my attraction to him which is part of the problem.

I told his mother she stunted his emotional growth by keeping him at home.

And it’s not just that he lives there but it’s the relationship, it’s the having to greet her upon arrival, the dinners, the calling her at lunch or after work to check in about dinner , he looks at his duty to feed her. It’s like ok thanks for letting me know where I’m at in the pecking order.

I hate venting but obviously I’ve got quite a bit of resentment built up. The only good thing is if venting here keeps me from making a sharp remark to him, then good, cause he’s not going to change and I look like the idiot .

He’s fully convinced his way of life is correct and there’s nothing wrong with it.

Thank you again for listening.

The way this guy lives may be what's right for him. That's what I learned at Al-Anon: how another person chooses to live is their business - even if what they choose is dysfunctional and maladaptive. That's on them. If we believe in free choice, then people are free to make poor choices. You can't choose for someone else . . . only for you.

I think you chose well to bow out of this relationship. It would do nothing but keep you perpetually irritated.

Good point and that’s what he always said.

I thought with all the al-anon under my belt I could handle a relationship with an active alcoholic .

I was wrong.

What you found out was that you can't handle a relationship with this particular alcoholic. Not unless you want to feel slighted every second day. It's probably also true that, for the sake of your sobriety, you do well to not date any man who is drinking. Without the sobriety, nothing else is going to be too good in your life.

Even if this guy stopped drinking, there'ld still be the mother issue. You can't change another person. That's one thing I got out of Al-Anon. It's not even my place to want to re-fashion another human being. He lives as he believes works for him. He does seem to have worked out an approach to life that allows him a certain stability. He holds on to a job and gets along with at least some co-workers. He could be a lot more screwed up than he is. But he's simply not available for what you're looking for.

It must be hard to see him almost daily at work and still be attracted to him. When you're not at work, make the most of your other connections, especially with others who are sincerely working a program. There is strength in fellowship.

Alcohol isn’t the issue for me, it’s the marijuana that’s the issue, however alcohol opens the door to marijuana which is why I can’t drink. It actually starts with tobacco.

It’s ironic, his stability is one of the points he sold me on after hearing about my previous relationship. My mistake to confide in him.

The attraction is physical , I know he’s not good for me.

What’s even harder is this grey area we’re in. I was like , let me get stable on medication and then I’ll figure out what’s going on.

Well, with each day that passes I can see what’s going on.

I do go to a meeting every day, either in person or on zoom.

Thank you for engaging with me.

I don't see why it "was a mistake" to confide in him. Had you not, would that have made him a better boufriend? That's what courtship, or dating, is for: to reveal yourselves gradually and see how that works out.

It takes time to discover what a person is like. There is no quick vetting process, whereby we can know quickly if someone is right for us. Some alertness to "red flags" may help us to quickly reject the totally unsuitable. But you needed time to learn how enmeshed his life is with his mother's." Like, in my case, I avoid men with anger issues. (Probably because I grew up with an angry father.) Red flags for that tend to come up pretty quickly, but not always.

You seem to be chastizing yourself for dating a guy you found unsuitable. But isn't that the whole point of dating? It's not like you married the guy without knowing him. You got to know him and how he relates with his mother, and you decided "No thanks." That's how it works.

Living in the finished basement works for him, in his opinion. That may give him stability. However, an arrangement that stabilizes him would likely destabilize you. Your responsibility is to not continue in a relationship that you find unhealthy for you.

Lastly, the other employees at work can presume what they like. You don't have to justify yourself to them. Of course, they'll gossip. Generally, it's good to keep your personal business to yourself at work. In your case, that probably was impossible since he and you work for the same employer. So you just do the best you can. Strictly avoid talking him down to any of your co-workers.

Thanks you’ve been very helpful.

I was shocked and horrified to find out his mom would be perfectly happy to have me give up my 2BDR apt to come live with him in his in-law unit that doesn’t even have a full kitchen. Even he was ok with that. Now granted his mom has a really nice house in a really nice neighborhood , but to me my freedom is more important . I haven’t lived with my parents for over 2 decades . That is an excellent point you make about stabilize and destabilize. Living with his mom allows him to drink and drug as he likes.

It also means we don’t have a whole lot in common as his frame of reference is largely based in that house .

I appreciate your responses .

I'm glad if I've helped you think through a few things.

So Mom is willing to let son's girlfriend move in. How cozy! She really is determined to keep him tied to her apron strings. Wouldn't that be lovely to have her in the catbird seat watching every ripple in her son's relationship.

If you moved in there on the understanding that such a set up would be temporary, you'ld find that he'ld have one excuse after another as to why the two of you couldn't leave.

Between Mom and Son there are no boundaries. The two of them are committed to keeping it that way. She is way, way too intrusive in her son's life. You were very wise to reject the invitation to move in there. Your life wouldn't be your own.

Oh yeah she got a little ornament for the backyard that said “together 4 ever” with two skeletons, cause she knows I like that, and a sugar skull decoration too, trying to make me feel at home. She told her son to make room for me in his space so he gave me a drawer under his bed

He has zero intention of moving out. Of course I had no idea of this when I started dating him. Even people at work thought he had moved back home temporarily to support his mom when his dad died. no, he never left.

Yet and still people thanked me for being his girlfriend , so to speak, and were so happy for him. What about me?

And he , both of them, acted like I was the problem because I didn’t approve of their setup. yeah like he basically attacked me over telling me I wanted to take him away from his family!

I’m just shocked I let it go on for a full year.

Yes you’ve helped me a lot.

"Together 4 ever!" LOL 😄

Some people maintain unhealthy excessive attachment to parents or adult kids or job or a hobby or sports or social media or pets or houses or substances etc etc (or insert anything else) in order to remain unavailable for anything else, especially romantic relationship. They might appear available but deep inside they aren’t. Any excessive attachment makes one unavailable. No medication can fix that. All we can do is to work on our attraction to unavailable men. We can’t fix them

Thank you I’m not sure that’s the problem as he’s trying to make himself available to me. I think it boils down to a lifestyle difference . If I have a mental health diagnosis , I’m going to do whatever I can to optimize my life. If I have dysfunctional parents, I’m going to leave .

In this case I was blindsided by the pandemic When I took him to my priest, my priest asked if it was a pandemic relationship. At the time I said no, but now I see it was. The pandemic caused me to make all kinds of changes in my life I wouldn’t have otherwise made. Now that the pandemic is winding down I’m seeing that.

Well he might be available time wise but still attachments and addictions make one not fully available for true connection with others because something else takes too big of a place.

Life style differences is a big thing. It usually causes problems in the long run. Smart move to end it

Thank you and you’re right. He’s trying to make an effort to keep me , however I know in the end it’s not going to work out.

Right now I’m trying to get back to a sober and faithful state of mind where picking up a drink or a drug is never an option to eradicate a bad feeling.

Regardless of his mom, his attitudes towards doctors, prescriptions, alcohol, nicotine, drugs, God, work, are all incompatible with mine. He thought we had something special that we could work out our differences on, but regardless of his point of view, I was the one doing the compromising and sacrificing .

I’m trying to leave him alone to live his life and when he reaches out to me I’m trying to keep it friendly. It’s difficult untangling this.

You're not the only one who was influenced by COVID to make decisions differently. Done that myself. We all have to now figure out how to pick up where we left off in spring of 2020.

I guess taking this guy to your priest was a case of leaving no stone unturned in your quest to make the relationship work. I respect your thoroughness. I know someone who took his brother to a priest who counseled on substance abuse. The priest told the two of them to each live their own lives.

You can't rewrite history. All you can do is learn from it. If you see patterns in your past that you don't like, you might talk to others in recovery about what you can change.

This was a first, I never dated a man who lived with his mother in my entire life.

I took him to the priest because he said after a year we could talk about marriage so I told the priest that and the priest said he had some pre-engagement questions. Turns out the bf saw the priest as a 3rd party much like the ex fiancé saw the t as a 3rd party! So there’s a pattern.

I also never dated a user or an alcoholic post sobriety so that was also a first.

I’m working on picking my life up post pandemic.

Thanks for letting me know I’m not alone in that.

I think it’s important to recognize patterns even if details differ. This guy might be the only one who lives with mom but there is a pattern: they are either still married, or workaholics, or alcoholics, or live with moms or otherwise unsuitable for successful happily ever after. It took me awhile to recognize patterns. In fact it took me some therapy. Details don’t really matter as much as noticing patterns

Thank you, yes I’ve had a lot of therapy and I have told my current therapist and doctor about him.

He’s everything but married.

Good post