Hindsight is 20/20

Hello everyone. I’ve been thinking about this for awhile and figured I’d post about it here to see if I get any responses.

As some of you know I recently ended a relationship with someone who wasn’t right for me. As I’m starting to reflect on the relationship from start to finish , I’m trying to understand why I ignored a major red flag for me: his relationship with his mother.

Since college I’ve been rejecting guys who live with their mothers . (I moved out of my parents house when I was 18.) This guy had his mom, whom he lives with, shuttle us to a hiking trail on our first “date”. For him, it was normal, he lives with her, not a big deal. For me it didn’t register this was his mother driving him. I even thought she was cool cause she had tattoos.

Fast forward to over a year later and a post comes up in my Facebook memories from last July when we went on vacation. I said something about being on vacation for the first time in forever and his mom made a comment “and with a great companion”.

?!?!

(My ex bf is not on social media)

I mean what the? What kind of mother promotes her son on his gf’s social media account?

Of course things really devolved when I told her things didn’t work out because I was sober again and I didn’t want to hang out with someone who wasn’t. She asked me if he made demands on me too.

?!?!

I’m trying to understand how I got myself in this position in the first place.

As some of you know I’ve been around since 2014 and I feel like I should know better.

Anybody have any insight?

We all should know better. With few exceptions everyone had relationship with at least one person when could be like “what was I thinking???” Not just about relationships. About other things. Influenced by other peoples opinions, denial, don’t trust your own guts etc etc Trusting oneself is important.

The only thing we could do is to try to learn from it. So next time you meet someone who is that dependent on their mother plus had other issues, you’d not go for it.

Good you only spent a year with a wrong person. Some waste 25 years of their life. So you didn’t really waste time. Very wise

The thing is I think it’s a mutual dependence , like he pays rent, has his own car, but his mother handles his interface with the world. He would deny he was dependent on her but even this week he said something that made my stomach turn. He told me his mom told him he could put his feet in the hot tub since they were bothering him. I was thinking to myself, you talk to your mom about your aches and pains? I never talk to my mom and the only time I hear from my dad is when he sends me a picture of their dog.

Another thing I’ve been thinking about this situation is when a man is that close to his mom it leaves no room for a woman, like I’m always in competition with his mom for how much I love him. Furthermore I could never love him like his mom does because I don’t have to love him unconditionally. It’s just not right all around.

Thank you for encouraging me. I have to work with him so it’s not like I can forget him. We maintain a close friendship at this point . The people we work with still think we’re dating and it’s better that way.

I don’t think it’s wrong to talk to one’s parents about aches and other things. That part I think is normal and not bothersome. That just routine conversation. I think of close relationship with parents is a good thing actually. I think it’s healthy but within limits. My brother and I were close with our mom but she didn’t excessively meddle in our relationships. Of course no one can love anyone like their mother does. That just a given, it’s a different kind of love. But if someone is dependent on their parents in adulthood it’s not healthy imho

Some other examples of his mom are weird though like driving him to a date. Unless he doesn’t drive, then it’s ok

Well it wasn’t a date at that point and it was so we didn’t have to loop back to his car. I think he’s dependent on his mom in the sense he’s never had to deal with a landlord or a pg&e bill, his mom does his taxes for him and gives him his mail.

I wouldn’t say his mom “meddles” in our relationship, I would say she champions him at every given opportunity, also he eats dinner with her most nights since he doesn’t have a full kitchen downstairs so when I came to visit most time we’d have dinner with his mom and then the conversation would be molded to her sensibilities. I couldn’t say anything critical about her son to her face, couldn’t say if I didn’t like his “cooking” or something else, would have to listen to her talk about her life, especially her past life.

Anyways that’s all in the past now , but for someone like me with relational trauma, “normal” family relationships are a strain.

Who knows what’s normal. I think whatever works for people that’s their normal. Yeah I love my mom but I’d not want to eat dinner with her every day. She’d not be up to it either. I have a friend in her mid 40s who lives just few houses from her parents. She eats dinner with them every night. It’s either she goes there to eat or they show up at her house. I think we are reasonably close family but I’d skip town if I had to eat dinner with them every day. It’s insane in my books, but it’s normal for my friend and her family.

I’d say eating dinner with mom every time I visit a boyfriend wouldn’t work for me either. Especially listening to her. Occasionally maybe. But other than that no thanks. I’d want to stay in my own house and eat my own dinner without having to listen to no one’s mom. I think it’s understandable it was a strain. It would be for me. I don’t have the patience for it.

If we didn’t want to eat dinner with her he’d have to tell her we were eating downstairs. The fact that he has to tell her is indicative of what I’m talking about. Anyways that’s behind me now. The bigger strain was his drinking/smoking/using and her enablement of that behavior.

Like when she tried to ban smoking he threw a tantrum and got his way . That was another red flag. There were so many instances that indicated he was not a good partner for me. She labeled us as partners and I was like “he’s not my partner , he lives with his mother, he’s my boyfriend”.

It’s going to take me a while to heal.

Quote:

Of course things really devolved when I told her things didn’t work out because I was sober again and I didn’t want to hang out with someone who wasn’t.

Just wondering if you were at the sober point when the initial red flags occurred? That definitely could have made a huge difference in how you perceived the relationship at that time.

Oh, I was totally sober when I logically thought about marrying my now EX in spite of the HUGE red flags. It took me a lot of effort to go back & remember what in the world I was thinking way back in 1975....but I did it & understand why I made the choice then even though now, hind sight has made me realize those RED FLAGS were real & I should have followed my GUT, not my logic in that case.

I was dry but unmedicated, wasn’t working a program . So many people had sold him to me, I thought because he was vetted by a work environment that was a positive . I continue to look back on my Facebook memories and see his mom’s comments. She really pushed for the relationship, knowing all of her son’s addiction and mental health issues . In her mind she didn’t see anything wrong with her 40something yo son still living at home. Even ppl at work had told me about his alcohol issues but of course they had no way of knowing how it would impact me.

The big lesson in all this for me is I can not use cannabis and I probably have to be on medication . I know some people say medication isn’t for them (he’s one of them), however he also self medicated with nicotine, alcohol and marijuana .

Thank you for your reply

It’s amazing how some people are so negative (and sometimes judgmental) about use of medication yet think nothing of drinking, smoking and drugging uncontrollably

Yeah work environment is not really a valid evaluation when relationships are concerned. Many people are excellent employees yet terrible life partners.

Thanks divine1966, that about sums it up, “excellent employees yet terrible life partners”.
The reason I finally asked my ex husband to leave is because he kept quitting job after job so I thought that someone who had been in management would surely be a better choice . I was wrong.
My ex bf controls his drinking, smoking and drugging . He knows how much he can drink so he can drive, he counts his cigarettes and he makes sure only to drug (he resents me calling marijuana a drug) when his mom isn’t around or can’t smell what he’s doing. In fact it really disturbed me how they have this arrangement where if she doesn’t see what he’s doing then she can ignore it even though she disapproves. I found out she looks at how many bottles he puts in the recycling. That is so codependent and dysfunctional. He doesn’t care.

40 something y.o. and he has dinner with Mom most nights? This guy really isn't available for a romantic relationship with any woman. He's "already taken."

IMHO the nature of your relationship with him needs to keep evolving. Maintaining a "close friendship" with a former dating partner is not a great idea. Lots of posters in these forums will say, "Why not?" It comes up a lot in threads. It just never seems to be a good thing.

Here is another thing I would recommend: Adjust your FaceBook access, so that what you post no longer shows up in this guy's mother's feed. He's in a weird relationship with his mom. There's no need for you to be. Disengage with her, gently, politely and firmly. I'm not saying "Unfriend" her. Just quietly close the door between her space and yours.

In terms of your first paragraph, exactly! I knew when I first met him he was in a relationship with someone else, I just didn’t know it was with his mother! Even today he told me he had to tell his mother he was sick and would be eating dinner downstairs by himself .

I don’t know if you read my earlier posts that one of the first things we fought about was his insistence that I greet his mother first thing upon arrival. He could go in the side door to his apartment instead of through the front door, and usually his mother is in the back of the house watching tv or reading.

I remember one time in particular when he told me her feelings were hurt because I didn’t greet her on arrival . Usually when we get there it’s right after work and I’ve had no time to myself all day and the last thing I want to do is put on a show for someone else.

I stopped going over there prior to ending the relationship because I got so sick of the drama .

The things I was mentioning on Facebook were in my memories . Currently it seems she can only see when I update my cover photo so there’s no problem there .

I work with my ex bf and we were even given time off together this month because the break up was so recent . I feel it’s better if people think we’re still dating . Everyone, well almost everyone , loves him at work , and are so happy he found somebody . I feel like to at least two people I just exist to be his girlfriend! He’s also always telling me about what a good job he does and the praise he gets or how he thinks he’s perceived. He was in management so I really can’t say anything .

I haven’t dated someone at work since I was 17 and even then it was someone in a different area of the organization. I had forgotten that was not a good idea because so many people are still enthusiastic about our relationship and him.

It reminds me so much of my ex husband, he is also very popular too in social settings and when I tried to talk about the problems at home or in the relationship, people didn’t want to hear it. My mom blamed me for my ex husbands relapse, this guys mom asked me if it was ok if he had a beer and couldn’t maintain her stance of no smoking on her property after he threw a fit.

It’s been 15 years between the two relationships and I seemed to have forgotten everything I learned .

Thanks for replying.

Leomama - if you have connections to others who are "in recovery," use that resource. My S.O. drank during the first 12 years of our relationship. It was not fun for me. I went to Al-Anon and learned so much. I will always be so grateful for that. I learned that I had to focus on how I want to live my life, not on how I thought he should be living his life. That took a huge weight off my shoulders and off my mind. I learned to separate what is my business from what is not my business. It took over a decade for me to grasp what I kept hearing and reading. But, eventually, I started to get it. I apply it to how I deal with others in every walk of my life . . . not perfectly . . . but I stick with it. Of course, you have to find what works for you.

Yeah I was introduced to al-anon by my daughters preschool director, she 12 stepped me. I have my own recovery program, composed of all three of those programs.


I know I can’t be around a drinking alcoholic as that will trigger my own “ism” as I found out this past year.

These days middle aged people still living with parents is becoming more normal, so I might be willing to overlook it if I were dating again, but it would be weighed against other factors. Their relationship with parents is definitely a biggie and it sounds like your ex and his mother are enmeshed to a degree. I mean, it’s ok to be proud of your child, but nobody with things going for them already - tangible things they worked for/on themselves - has to be promoted at every turn, like they’re a pyramid of canned goods in the supermarket.
You should be able to see at least some of those good qualities without much input from a cheerleader squad, or find out about them in a more ‘organic’ way as you get to know the person better.
As for his colleagues, you know how it works best for you, but it’s not really your job to manage their (or anyone else’s) feelings. They’re old enough to handle your ex’s second hand disappointment.
For what it’s worth I ignored a handful of red flags with my last ex, too - it’s not always easy to step back and see the relationship for what it really is, versus what you think it is or could be.

This mother has got this son exactly where she wants him, and she's not letting go. That nonsense about her being hurt because of you not greeting her upon arrival was a case of her marking her territory. She was letting you know that she runs the show (of his life.) Momma and Sonny are a package deal. To get to him you literally have to go through her. That would never change. Those two are in a very stable relationship. She may actually want a potential daughter-in-law, but only on her terms. That means she gets to control two people, instead of just one. I think you dodged a bullet.

Incidentally, his weird relationship with Momma is what's driving his substance abuse issues. That's his llittle way of rebelling and depriving her of total control.

That’s a good point , I’m not sure how much he has worked for or on himself. It’s not just his mom that promoted him but some of his coworkers too.

The things I found out about organically is that family comes first for him, as do drugs and alcohol.

To me family comes first is my own child, to him it’s his family of origin. Not a match.

Yep I knew he was in another relationship I just didn’t know it was with his mother; I didn’t know that was a possibility.

Yeah another thing I didn’t like about her is I would listen to how she talked about how she didn’t like certain female children and animals disposition, describing them as sullen. That made me feel unsafe as someone who struggles. One time I made the mistake of mentioning to her I felt down and she has me if I had cycles? She of course is perfect, has no mental health or substance abuse issues, she’s a teetotaler . When I told her I couldn’t be around her son drinking and using she made it seem like I was the one with the problem!

I’m just glad to have created space between them both and myself.

I would tell him over and over again he was supposed to stand up for me not her, and he just didn’t get it. Like if I’m the one having the problem then I’m the one with the problem because there’s nothing wrong with his thinking or actions.

He even foolishly thought it was a matter of spending time with my narcissistic parents, that that would fix things.

i think everyone can make mistakes. It is good that you're trying to analyze what happened but i'd say try not to beat yourself up too much voer it. Sometimes things like this just happen. i don't necessarely think it's anyone's fault. Sending many Safe, warm hugs to BOTH you, @leomama, your Family, your Friends and ALL of your Loved Ones! Keep fighting and keep rocking NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, OK?!

Maybe it’s no ones fault, but there are many things I overlooked that I haven’t mentioned. For example he’s against being prescribed his own medication but he’s ok with sampling other people’s medication. Maybe you’re ok with that, however that goes against my values and it’s yet another thing I overlooked .

I doubt if any psychotropic meds could change how he is very much. He never cut the cord with Mom. He likely never will. Using other people's meds is just another manifestation of his dependency pattern. He doesn't want to really commit to having a personal program of recovery and reform for himself. He'll dabble in this or that, but always rely on Mom as the centerpiece of his "program." He may take a fit to get a concession from her, but those concessions are small things. She maintains control over the big stuff.

Well he claims he’s not dependent on her at all, that he does what he does out of love. Like initially he stayed home after his mom was widowed and then he just never left. Plus his mom has a boyfriend.
He very much “brought me into his family”, which was really strange for me considering I left home at 18, have already married and divorced and have my own adult child.
It disturbed me how he would tell his mom about what happened at work and she would soothe him. I never had those kind of conversations with my parents, much less at the dinner table. I would go out to lunch once in awhile with my dad and we would catch up but that was it. It disgusted me how his mom would empathize and sympathize with him and it also told me there was no room for me. When we would argue about this he would point out he wasn’t having sex with his mom and it shouldn’t be a problem he was close to her. I always wondered how he would feel if the roles were reversed , however that would never happen.

leomama,

Life is about learning and without "mistakes" we wouldn't learn, or at least I think that is the case. It takes hard lessons so that we can reflect on how to improve our lives. My lesson with my ongoing divorce is a bitter hard pill to swallow, yet one that is teaching me much about myself. So, kudos to you for wanting to understand why you did what you did.

For me, life is about taking chances and the end result isn't always clear. When I first met my ex-wife, I thought all was clear and that the future only held positive outcomes. How wrong I was with that perception. Now, I don't want to be a debbie downer, but life is about learning and growing. The growing part is where some people seem to be stunted, myself included. I do seem to choose partners that are reminiscent of my mother and I am not sure if I have control over that.

As someone else mentioned, at least you only spent 1 year with this man. I am not trying to oversimplify your situation, but trust me years that are built into a relationship can takes years to heal should a breakup occur. As I heal, my ex has moved on to greener pastures. But this isn't about me...

To sum up, I think it is awesome that you are trying to reflect upon this, but in my opinion, chalk it up to a learning experience and try not to repeat it. Life is a mystery and the dance of life can be a wild ride.

--sarc

That would be all well and good if I didn’t have to work with him and we weren’t given time off together . Everyone still thinks we’re a couple. In some ways he reminds me of my ex fiancé, he thinks he’s absurd sense of humor is entertaining. I think it’s obnoxious and abrasive. This is so much like my situation with my ex husband too where he’s socially popular .
I will say I wouldn’t have learned any of this about him if I hadn’t dated him. I never dated a smoker before , my ex fiancé would try to hide his smoking from me . I also never dated someone who drank so religiously before . I thought my ex husband was an alcoholic but he was more of a binge drinker. This guy has his smoking and drinking down to a ratio.

I feel like I’m another poster on another thread who’s just not listening . I guess I’m “venting “ (yikes).

Thanks for bearing with me.

I appreciate the response .