Ghosting, ignoring, not responding to messages

Thanks much for the article.

I did not understand these parts:

1. "Most people, no matter how unresponsive, will respond when they see you through the bat signal up over Gotham."

I mean, I don't know enough about batman movies so what is this phrasing supposed to mean? Does it just mean people will respond and try to help in times of true need/crisis?

And the last sentence here:

"For most, this is not a “lost” to mean they are living terrible lives, breaking laws and not contributing to society, but lost in that their priorities in life are very obviously off, and they are very much in need of a presence in their life to model a different way of being, a presence in their life that can encourage and help guide them to a more righteous way of living. Most of my friends accept, and in fact expect, my guidance in that way. Though, for the bulk of you reading this, if you tried to be a friend in that way, you’d get unfriended on Facebook pretty quickly."

So the last sentence, it felt like the author was being really boastful lol and like expressing how he/she is superior to others when it comes to providing guidance to friends. How would you interpret it yourself?

But yeah, otherwise good article. I already decided on all this really, and I hope you'll be able to do something too with those friends.

I'm currently working on how to detach enough from people so I don't have all that much of an emotional reaction if they do crap, be that ignoring of me or manipulative insults or whatever else. I would still want to have a reaction but not too strong. Just enough of a reaction that I'm informed by it and then I know what to say or do. Do you/Does anyone have any tips on this?

I know I'm able to detach (and still keep enough emotional reactivity inside, but not too much) if I wasn't totally deeply attached in the first place and the other person does something that truly destroys most of my trust. But not sure how to do it otherwise.....

Also a problem of mine is that by default I detach on the spot if someone I care about says manipulative ****. And my emotional reaction comes much later if ever (yes I used to be too detached but not in a way that's helpful for me). I've worked on this, and I'm now able to respond emotionally like 1 day later.

This is big improvement for me. But I need to be able to respond immediately, whether that's just me saying "Ok I'm done with this convo. Talk to me when you're calm and rational enough as I will not tolerate this behaviour". Or whatever. And the way I respond now 1 day later is too strongly emotional, whether I show it to the person or not.

Hi, yes you’re right the reference to Gotham is exactly that - friends responding in a crisis.

The 2nd point he describes himself as a religious leader, and does make it clear that is the big difference in how he relates to people. I personally think people who are friends/contacts are aware of the pastoral care type nature of relationship so yes it’s very different to what most of us would experience.

Glad you find the article helpful, for me the main takeaway is to lower my expectations and not invest more time or energy in the relationship. So for me that’s not being the one to text again when it was already clear the person wasn’t going to answer.

Thanks much for the clarification. And yeah, so in my case the problem with that friend was that I was committed to some things (long story) because she seemed to need the help. She really pretended that she did care and so when she would not respond it was very disorienting too. I couldn't simply have decided oh okay I'll just not invest more time and energy. Really a long story though. The point is that I would've had to see what was going on much earlier, at that point it was going to be very hard to deal with it either way.

Yes I understand, sometimes it’s difficult, and one can feel enmeshed with a person/situation. Sometimes a person can seem like they care more than they do, and sometimes I think they may actually care but just not be consistent/prioritise others. I think the article I linked is right in that some people are just too self absorbed to prioritise others. It’s hard to accept that if you really do like a person, but they may not be capable of a consistent reciprocal relationship.

Sometimes maybe the friendship can persevere but with your expectations lowered understanding this person’s limitations.

It kinda was more complex than that in my case. She was originally attentive, and then that stopped. And she started pretending it instead to get stuff out of me. It was impossible for me to see past her faking it like that. Because of how it originally was a good friendship in my mind.

Btw you mentioned here, that sometimes they may actually care yet not prioritise. To me the two are mutually exclusive....if you care, you prioritise, if you prioritise, you care. If someone is self-absorbed, then by definition they cannot care about others nor prioritise others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etcetera1 It kinda was more complex than that in my case. She was originally attentive, and then that stopped. And she started pretending it instead to get stuff out of me. It was impossible for me to see past her faking it like that. Because of how it originally was a good friendship in my mind. Btw you mentioned here, that sometimes they may actually care yet not prioritise. To me the two are mutually exclusive....if you care, you prioritise, if you prioritise, you care. If someone is self-absorbed, then by definition they cannot care about others nor prioritise others.

The thing is that you can care but have other things that become a higher priority. I have/had a friend who I still care about BUT I had a sick horse that had my priority for months & no energy for anything else even after I had to have her put to sleep, I had so many things I had to take care of for months after that. No time to even fit her into my priorities. Sometimes things aren't as mutually exclusive as we think they are. Sometimes paths diverge at times like that & a good time to actually reassess the relationship. Nothing is forever

Oh I see, so this person exploited your friendship but it took a while for you to see what she was doing? Are you still in touch with her?

Yes as Eskie says sometimes people prioritise above friendship because of valid reasons - yet they still care. I would also say some people may not have such important reasons as a sick animal or relative - they may be just generally self absorbed or badly organised, I’ve known this too, it’s just how they are and yes they may well still care. Like the article says do they show up in a crisis? If so that may be a friendship to maintain on the periphery but not invest too much time in.

Yeah, for the first few years she wasn't exploiting it, but after some years she just changed.

She also blamed her new behaviours on depression and I did not have experience with depression so I didn't understand that some of her behaviours were absolutely not explained by just depression. If I had known more about that, I'd have been able to see right away that she was just trying to take advantage of me. I did always see it fine about other people before. No one ever managed to take advantage of me like that.

So yeah, it took a while to realise. No I'm no longer in touch with her. And I mention her because she did a lot of that ignoring of me whenever she felt like it, also because of taking me for granted or whenever she didn't need my help.

I just don't see how being self-absorbed means they care at the same time. If you want to elaborate on it I don't mind hearing more about it. Right now I take it that you mean that they are usually focused on themselves but sometimes other feelings and motivations come up too for them i.e. when they get to focus on other people. But I don't really see that as care, more like just they feel like doing whatever, so they are not really reliable people

But that may be because of my experiences, because, I see you mention them still showing up in time of need. The article mentions most people will do that.... And that friend and my other friend did not do it when I did need it. Even tho I had put in lots for them, their crises. My other friend didn't try to exploit me so blatantly but I was there for her when she felt suicidal. Or when she had a very bad problem with a new boyfriend, or whenever she had some question and panicking about needing an answer to it.

So no they did not do what "most people do".. So that part of the article was hard to believe for me. Because they just tried to do really bad personal attacks, insults instead or just say "I don't feel like it" when I asked for their help.

So I know this is a different situation, but..... I was a friendship to be maintained on the periphery for them?! Because they maybe decided they didn't like me that much - even if their negativity was temporary, my other friend was like that - but why not ask for my help in time of need anyways?! And they often had that time of need for a while! And ofcourse, they would hide it if they had a problem with me!!

Just randomly ignore, block, disappear, not meet me because "no time", "not feeling like it", then when confronted enough, do personal attacks....is all they communicated to me. And ofcourse both talked or vented behind my back anyways to others who then thought worse of me. Those other people would even attack me sometimes in the end because of it. So I don't buy it's just conflict avoidance in their case!

No I mean I will definitely keep focus on this in future. If I see ANY signs of a person wanting to keep me around but just enough to not kill the whole relationship. While avoiding direct communication about why they are trying to keep a distance so carefully. This makes sense. Because I did notice the friend that was the real bad user did do that a LOT in the end. I was able to pick up on it then because it was too blatant by then. She thought she could still hide the fact from me but nah.

This is highly relevant to this thread's original question actually! So thank you for that.

Like, I get it that not everyone would want to keep me around just to take advantage of me but I've just decided that I will just not tolerate it from anyone, even people who just want the relationship "just in case" but don't try to regularly ask for help from me. I mean, even people who just want a little help sometimes and are not truly just "users". The ONLY thing I will tolerate is open communication....If they won't communicate openly, THE END. This strategy of keeping me around will NOT work, ever again.

And I will make myself less helpful, too. Just what works for me will be fine, and not more than that. As far as that, I will first have to keep in mind what I actually enjoy because I don't really keep it in mind as it is now, this friend took a lot out of me and so I keep forgetting now.

Again I know this is different from the case you were describing. But it helped anyway.

But I'll actually ask, what do you see as a crisis? And what do you want or need from your friends in a crisis?

We are probably talking about different things. By prioritising I didn't mean having to literally always keep in contact and whatever. But being a priority enough to respect the person and communicate with them honestly. Anyhow we also probably have very different worldviews when it comes to close friendship. Paths just diverge when it comes to buddies, yes, but with close friends I want more communication than that. That's simply part of my value system.

And I don't get what you meant about reassessing the relationship. I wouldn't reassess a close friendship just because of changes in my life right now and here (or changes in their lives). I would be aware that the friendship itself and the other person and my relation to them did not change just because of that. I may have less time and if they ask I'm willing to communicate that, but why reevaluate the entire relationship? Frankly I didn't follow that at all. Feel free to say more, you don't have to, but I'm open to hearing more.

I’m glad it helped and that you are more aware of ‘red flags’ to look for, venting about you/talking about you behind your back is definitely a red flag.

I can see what you mean, being self absorbed and caring about others might seem two different things but I think it can coexist. I have a friend who openly admits they are self absorbed often - I didn’t see it in them initially (people often show their best side to begin with) but after many years I can say they were being honest, they do care about others but their first thoughts are about themselves first. They aren’t a bad person but I’ve learned to lower my expectations of them.

What classifies as a crisis to me is something like bereavement, or illness in oneself or relative, or maybe a job loss. These are all things friends of mine have experienced, I responded by making sure I was there when they wanted me, checking in regularly and most importantly listening when they need it. This is what I would hope my closest friends would do.

Yeah. Instead of talking to me in a constructive way to resolve issues if they had any. If I had an issue myself I would bring it up, maybe not right away if I didn't know how to verbalise it, but I would always bring it up sooner or later.

And this is so relevant to the thread because I can see there is a connection: people who ignore or ghost will probably vent about me and even go as far as slander me behind my back. People who block others probably do it even more. They'd have to be a really introverted person to not do that, because ignoring or blocking like that means there's a lot of anger.

Both the user friend and my other friend did talk bad about me behind my back, but the user friend did it even more.

My other friend and anyone else I mentioned in this thread about the pattern of ignoring me didn't block me. That user friend did it without even wanting to tell me, I don't know what she thought, that I wouldn't notice it eventually?

If I noticed that she silently blocked me on Facebook or Skype and asked her in email or in a text as to what's the problem, she'd always say bull**** like she blocked me on Skype because she blocked everyone else or that she just no longer uses Facebook. Made no sense, lol

Hmm, well seems like a word usage thing? ?

What I meant is if someone is self-absorbed they really only care about themselves. Someone can be a bit self-centered, which means they think about themselves first, but they can still have capacity to care about others too. If someone's very self-centered I would see that as outright self-absorbed or selfish if they also get exploitative. Btw my native language isn't English but this is my understanding of these words.

Also I find this topic of being self-centered or self-absorbed or selfish or whatever, complicated. If someone's a decent person but is just not in tune with you here and there (and in tune with you at other times, but you'd like it to happen more), are they self-centered or are they just simply not on your wavelength? I mean, I'd be interested in your or anyone else's input on this question.

Do you mind saying more on what expectations you had to lower about this person? To me it's a good sign that he/she has self-awareness to know they are self-centered. That "friend" of mine wouldn't have any self-awareness about it, at all (understatement).

OK, we have a similar idea of what a crisis is, yeah. I think most people mean this by a crisis. Did I understand you right, that you would mostly ask how they are, and listen to them if they had anything to say about the problem, negative feelings and such? What if they wanted to see you IRL, would you see them or only talk to them online?

When I wrote self absorbed my own understanding was that a person will often not reply to messages or answer questions or requests, in person they’ll focus conversation on themselves and bring conversation back to themselves. It doesn’t necessarily mean they are bad people IMO (although narcissists can have these traits not everyone with these traits is a narcissist). My friend thinks a lot about their own experiences I’ve come to realise and will talk at length about them, it may well have its roots in childhood experience. That’s my thoughts anyhow. Reading online definitions I think self centred-ness might be a more accurate description of this behaviour.

Without talking too much about my own situation, I’d say I no longer expect this person to respond in a timely manner, I also anticipate they’ll turn conversation back to themselves and I understand it’s not personal when they don’t notice or pick up on things going on in my life. It’s not me, it’s just how they are - I accept that now.

Yes you’re right about my thoughts on responding in a crisis, I would take the person’s lead as to whether RL or phone/online, as different people prefer different communication. Although personally I always prefer RL and face to face as communication is more nuanced.

Ah, yeah that stuff is frustrating and it's really off putting imo. I would also not be able to be more than just loose buddies with someone treating me like that. At least this friend doesn't pretend to make you believe the relationship is about more (to be able to exploit you). So yeah, could be worse

One last question - have you ever had a friend who - in time of crisis - didn't really want to talk about their feelings IRL but instead wanted to go do things with you to be able to distract themselves from the problem and have some positive experiences?

Yes I was that friend lol. I mean that in my own time of crisis it was most helpful for me to do things with my friends and not dwell too much on painful thoughts. Do you ask for a reason?

Yeah, I'm the same way. I just asked because I wanted to hear from others on this topic. That other friend was trying to gaslight me about this with her personal attacks.

I’m sorry your friend didn’t respect your way of preferring to distract from a situation. It is a completely valid reaction to prefer to distract IMO.