[Seven221]

I have been in partnership with a woman for 25 years. She was there when my (our) son was born. He is now 24 years old.

The relationship is . . . "complex" and I think I may finally be at the breaking point. I am trying to set boundaries and I need new strategies, specifically, I need to be able to communicate the feelings. Maybe this should go under the Dissociative forum but I feel I need a broader spectrum of responses (and yes, reassurance).

I think we are breaking up. I think this is going to be a long process. I think I should no longer tolerate what feels to me to be abuse.

Let me start from where i am standing now.

I ride my bicycle to work. It's summer, gas is too damned expensive and I can't afford car insurance anyway. So the car is parked.

Yesterday was payday. We ride to work together, stopping off at the bank. Because i work a "9-2-5" and she doesn't, she had previously been handling the faminly finances (issues). So we stopped by the bank and she went in (she keeps the atm card) so she could get some $. I waited outside with the bicycles. When she came back, I rode on to work. I had gotten to work and was waiting for the elevator when i get a call on my cell phone. It's her.

"I left the atm card in the machine" she tells me. "Can you call the bank and ..."

I said I would, proceeded upstairs (on the elevator), went to my desk, turned on the computer and while it is starting up I start making coffee. She calls again (less than 10 minutes had passed) and asks if I had called the bank yet. I tell her, no, i have to look up the number. She stresses the importance of it, says to cancel the card and I say "ok" and she hangs up.

Coffee's on, I'm at my desk logging into the website to look up the number and she calls again. "Have you called yet?" she asks. Only 10 to 15 (maybe) minutes had passed. I have the number. I am dialing. I tell her this. She hangs up. I talk to the bank people and they say they have the card, the manager has it and that i can come pick it up -- they ask when. I say lunchtime.

Partner calls back again. "When are you going to pick up the card?" she asks me. "Lunchtime" i answer.

Time passes, I'm happily (or unhappily) working when I get another call. "I'm walking up there. I need to do my walk today. We can walk up together. Bring your bicycle so you can ride back to work."

Ok, so I've got deadlines and commitments and maybe (well, ok, honestly I really do) I resent that she would intrude on my workplace space and functioning. I am accommodating. I readjust the schedule to meet her. She calls again. She's outside. I go downstairs with bicycle to meet her. We start walking. I get on the bicycle and attempt to ride very slowly alongside her. Well, I'm a bit wobbly.

She then starts to tell me how rude it is of me to ride the bicycle while she's walking, and that she would never do that to me. That the idea was that I would walk with her.

I hear her. I'm a bit hurt (I didn't think that this behavior -- riding the bicycle alongside her -- would be offensive) but I get off the bicycle and walk alongside her. She continues speaking, telling me how selfish I am. The conversation went on and digressed or devolved or whatever from there to the point where I say: Why are you so sensitive?

She becomes irate and goes into an angry (to me) tirade and then walks off. I can't understand the "over the top" behavior. Didn't I do what she asked? Didn't I get off the bicycle and walk with her? Why isn't she dropping it at this point?

i watch her ahead of me and she does, after getting some 30 - 40 paces ahead, turn around and ask me if I'm coming and says "you can ride your bicycle" and so I get on the bicycle and ride to catch up and as I am again riding alongside her, she continues to tell me what's wrong with me.

I say: "I tolerate you well." She goes off. "I don't NEED anybody to tolerate me" she says. yeah, my comment was out of line, maybe but understand that I am trying very hard to maintain control of anger in the face of what I perceive to be an onslaught of criticism -- much if not most of it unjustified. And truth be told, I have said very little, preferring to not get verbal and out of control. This totally pisses her off. She wants me to say something.

I'm not ever falling for that one again. But I do and did say "I tolerate you very well" and so she gets really angry and turns around at one point to confront me and tell me all about how awful I am. I think: "I don't need this %#@&#!; i don't deserve this %#@&#!. SHE, not me, needs the money.

I turned around and went back to work.

Well, I actually did take off work early, went by the bank, picked up the atm card and went home. So she is angry and upset. We go out to the porch to talk. She is telling me about myself. I want to leave. I stand to leave. She grabs me by the shoulders, pushes me back down into the chair and says "You're not walking away from me."

I did. walk away. and so she tells me she's leaving me. At this point I get totally pissed. "give me your keys" i answer. she didn't. I walked inside and locked the door.

Well, that's not the end of it but that is enough for right now.

this may seem like a "journal entry" and for now it totally is. The question on the table: Is this REALLY abusive behavior on her part toward me? Was it abusive behavior on my part toward her? Beyond that, and the core issue here is impacted by my tendency to dissociate. and If i can't recall and recite back to her exactly what she said to me in a given context, she seems to . . .

I'm tired. I'm trying to work through it. I need strategies. HELP!!!!!

[Rose3]

You did try to accommodate by making those phone calls and arranging to pick up the card.
And you did take the time to accompany her while adjusting your work schedule.
Yet, she dumps onto you a series of criticisms.
Is it possible to arrange to chat with her - in order to determine what is going on? Is it possible to explain to her - just how you do feel about the way she speaks to you? And maybe what you would like to be changed?

[bebop]

darn I made a long response and now it is gone. sorry bout that. has she been angry like this all along? if not maybe she is starting menopause. that can cause a woman to go thru many many emotions. maybe she is depressed? I am really sorry you are going thru this and I really hope it gets better very soon.

[wanttoheal]

Hi Seven,
It sounds like both of you could use some outside help in figuring all of this out. It could be a bad day. It could be controlling behavior. It's hard to say on this side of the fence. Are either of you seeing a counselor of any sort? It might help to see one separately or together.

Best of luck with this and please keep us posted.

Not trying to have a go at you in any way shape or form.

I would like to hear her version of events as I know I have had petty rows with my ex over simlar things and I would of sounded like your wife, ex had got me in such a state over the years I had no paitence with him and he couldnt see that he was at fault ! And yet now that we are divorced he can see what he did. (too late)

I think what I am saying is there are two sides to an argument why not let your wife read what you have written and see how upset you are and maybe she can explain a few things to you ?

[Seven221]

Hi and thank you all for your responses.

WHAT I DID:

I printed off a bunch of information about communication in a relationship and took it home, tied it with a pretty ribbon/string and left it on her bed.

A BIT MORE HISTORY --

Rightfully, IMHO, nobody here "took sides" exactly and I get the feeling you understand and also that more information would help. I focus again on the issue of improving communication. Here is where I start --

Way back when when we first got together, I did not identify myself as a survivor of CSA and in fact, would have wanted to keep the secret. That didn't happen. My behaviors were mysterious to her and she pushed for deeper, more intimate knowlege of me. She routinely objected to the point that i could "touch' her but she could not "touch" me and this was an issue for her. It made her feel inadequate.

The most explosive piece, though, is the anger piece. I remember that on a ride across country, our first trip together, she got p*ssed @ me and called "three minutes" and she punched me in the shoulder out of anger and I got it, but that set the stage for what happened next.

Without making excuses (the "one body rule" says that I am responsible for whatever anybody in this body does, with or without my conscious choice or permission) -- there was the day when she was saying the things that made her feel angry and I was totally triggered (routinely) and the anger face and the loud voice and everything else triggered to defense mode and the end result (I shamefully admit it) was that she was "in my face" and I attacked -- defensively I now understand but it took me a very long time to come to that point of understanding the defensive nature of it and yes, i still feel quite a bit of shame behind it becuase in my FOO there WAS violence and I did not ever want to perpetrate that on another. Unfortunate? Yeah. Sad? yeah. So to protect her, I shut down.

I learned to avert eye contact so i would not be so triggered. I found myself switching to child mode rather than attack mode. her safety/her resentment still. the child cannot be adult and she hates that. the attack/warrior cannot negotiate. she hates that.

some time ago, i learned that spirit could do well with her but spirit -- female that she is -- has no vestment in the relationship. again, wrong aspect presenting. spirit has the advantage, though, of trying to be understanding and filtering through a lot of the stuff.

most recently we know poet as front in this relatoinship but the language of poet is . . . maybe a bit too symbolic???? she doesn't "get him" although he has a deep love (I didn't know that, I thought it was Mike who loved her so much but now I see that there is the place where two aspects [maybe more] meet?) for her. This is the place where she needs -- to know that she is loved.

Still, her biggest issue (one of them) is my failure to maintain a solid presentation in the face of arguments/argusations.

I know that maybe this should go to the DID forum, but I was so hoping i could get a more "normalized" or less dissociative at the very least, set of inputs. Still hoping. Still coping.

As re therapy: let's be real -- I have tried very hard over a few therapists to deal with the dissociative issues with stacatto success and presently, i still struggle to 1) locate and 2) afford the kind of support i need to help me really deal with these issues. People just don't believe. And I'm a bit too tired to fight. I take what I can get where it comes from and keep moving.

BACK TO THE PRESENT

I want to be able to effectively communicate with her. It is extremely frustrating for her but I feel like I have done a hellova job to find a way to first of all remember the contents of a conversation, also to identify and figure out ways around the triggers. it so does not help when she says

"LOOK At me when i'm talkign to you"

which is guaranteed to sink me into child mode or awaken the sleepng dragon which is even more problematic.

I WANT to protect her, i WANT to keep her safe from me even. And i have done so. but the cost of my efforts has been an increased sense of alienation on both our parts.

HELP!!!!!

[Doh2007]

Sounds like a communication problem. Or are you looking for an excuse to break up? A therapist could show you both a new way to communicate.

[AAAAA]

Whether she’s being abusive (yes in my opinion based on the information you’ve given) or not, it sounds like you both have some issues that would benefit from a professional help. It sounds like she’s going out of her way to get a reaction from you, a negative one at that. It also sounds like you are willing to let go of yourself to remain in the relationship. Just out of curiosity, what advice would you give your son if he came to you in your exact situation?

[Seven221]

I am so not looking for an excuse to break up although i go back and forth on the issue, at one point resenting the apparent abuse and on the other hand orienting self toward her in total sympathy to her issues.

on the issue of counseling (*sigh*)

i started out in group shortly -- months -- after her m*ther died. it was in that setting that i came to know self as selves and we worked to network me into an individual therapy setting. that is over 11 or 12 years ago now. It took a couple of years for group to to convince me, help me, get me into individual therapy and really it was because i went into a huge depression. i started seeing a t at a university setting, covered by my insurance. the first t transferred out after some 6 months or so but the next t -- they understood and arranged and sought for -- the next t stayed for 18 months. i then wanted to see somebody on staff who wouldn't leave (aware of the repeated abandonment trauma and the impact on me) and i got to see this lady who XXXXX no compatibility. so then i got to see the other person -- a p-doc who had an interest in my case due to the high levels of dissociation both reported and observed. we saw him for like 18 months and he transferred out.

throughout this process, GF was drinking and though she did quit at one point the whole period of time when she was drinking (and thus less inhibited in confrontations) was very distressing. (yeah, i minimized it). she had confronted group t one day demanding to discuss what was wrong with me, she had "kidnapped" me one day on the way to group and wouldn't take me, she had driven drunk and crazy to express the rage, she had grabbed the steering wheel from me when I was driving becuase i didn't do exactly what she said . . . *sigh*

so she did quit drinking. and so she did want to know what was wrong with me. and thie p-doc turned t was NOT so helpful. he did not explain or validate the dx of my condition. i felt so hurt.

especially since it was HER reports (she would point out things that I said or did and when i didn't remmber doing them she became angry and irate, convinced that i was lying or whatever). we ended up in couples t with a young woman who i felt was at least somewhat helpful but that young woman transferred out after a few months and then we met the guy who after some sessions during which I attempted to discuss the impact her drinking had had on me, he asked me why i was trying to sabotage her. then he decided that i had issues and shoudl be seen individually and volunteered but his supervisor, thankfully, did not let that happen.

i then went back into indivudal therapy in that same setting but the new t i was assigned when we attempted to address again the dissociative issues, said simply "i see no signs of that" and decided that i had not done everything i could have done to get appropriate help (enough visits?).

i left her, going out on my own into the world to find my own indivual t who could meet my needs. i found this guy. he's ok. we're learning. and so we come to the point of truth here: she hates him, doesn't think i should be paying him; that the insurance should. that she is not like me and doesn't believe in a lifetime of therapy. she believes in going to get the tools and then using them.

she is unwilling at this point to go to therapy with me. she is unwilling to go to therapy at this point for her own issues, either (the return to drinking, the feelings about being chronically unemployed).

I did go back to school this past year trying to get my BA degree and she has stacked one thing after the other at my door and says she supports me but still, she has offloaded lots of things that were formerly her responsibility. i did challenge and take over the finances because of two issues: 1) she wanted to put a bill in the name of my son -- who has no job -- and i couldn't see that ending well (I could see her manipulating the bill and ruining his credit) and 2) she does not want to pay my therapist even the co-pay which, btw, is far under his standard rates.

the communication is for me to own my own part of it. trying. i'm still trying.

we have moved from enmeshed (the early years) to co-dependant and now i want to move to a more mature relationship. I want to communicate well. and come back to the question of how else? what else?

btw and truth: no, i don't "choose" who is with her exactly. we have learned how to discuss things inside to some extent but even at that, she objects to the methods i have learned and reacts with fear and resentment. i keep trying.

my son? he has a female friend and he is very patient with her, respectful and teasingly affectionate at the same time. we talk. he is so NOT like my partner. and i would tell him at the outset of a relationship -- and HAVE told him this -- that you must be able to communicate and you need to be on the same level. my son does not have 25 years invested in a relationship. he has not been through all the changes me and mine have gone through. if he found a relationship with a survivor with issues -- and he has found her and has been attracted to her -- I had issues with the relationship, recognizing that she was far too "mature" for him, with two children, a chaotic home life being that she lived with an abusive boyfriend. she oriented herself toward vampirism which i saw as an excuse/camoflage for the si she does. i was very happy that that particular relationship did not take root. I told him that this woman was too much for him but that i had no right to direct his life.

[AAAAA]

I was just trying to put you in the position of viewing your situation from another perpective. You realize that your relationship is currently unhealthy, and we very often give excellent advice to those we love.

I think you're both unhappy and unfullfilled right now. It does bother my comfort zone (for what it's worth) that she's laid hands on you in anger and that you appear to be swallowing everything that's thrown at you outwardly, but inwardly seething about it. That sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Long term relationships are precious and very complicated. How does she see your relationship? What is it that has her so frustrated that she feels the need to attack you (not rationalizing or excusing the behavior)? Can you use some of the tools from therapy to determine what the underlying problems are such as each of you writing down what you love most about your relationship and what you'd most like to change (no hostility allowed)?

I really feel for you, this must be so frustrating and painful.

[Seven221]

We are attempting to set boundaries but she cannot tolerate boundaries as they enhance her sense of isolation.

We need to say to her words and do things that are actions that let her know she belongs and yet that also say that we will not tolerate abuse.

we are setting boundaries which she objects to. she feels sad and discouraged and feeds that negativity a lot and so she looks to "fix me" because IMHO she cannot fix -- or even see -- herself. her role in my life used to be the caretaker (the enmeshment to co-dependant part) where I actually believed in my inability to do things like manage money. the double talk about going back to school (on the one hand saying all the right words to say she supports me, on the other hand demanding more time and offloading responsibilities and then looking at me and telling me i can't do it all)

allllllll the unrealities. enhancing the already existing structures. we know we are dissociative. we know she triggers us. we have only now begun to see her. to hear her and know that she is both who she is and also in our eyes the caustic, critical mother. that the mother would say things that we perceived as unreal and then insist on their realities. we see this now. yet we understand her that she really does care for us and she really does want to do better for herself. we cannot leave her behind.

we will get through this. had we siimply left, we do not know where we would be. we did choose to stay -- for lack of a better choice. we now try to make better choices. we try to set boundaries and remember that we do deserve to be respected.

we are trying.

[Doh2007]

No one can say you haven't tried. I believe in boundaries. Boundaries are good. All I can offer are platitudes. You sound like a special person. Not a lot of people would stay and grow. I hope you can find peace.