Choices???

**potential trigger warning - talk of suicide**

I've been struggling a lot lately with the concept of choices: do we really have any, how can we know when we do etc? I seem to have a choice to make; at least my parents say I have a choice to make, but I think it's really an illusion...

Ok that's too cryptic, so I will be more specific but I really don't want replies telling me how mental I sound because I've had enough of that IRL!!

In my current reality I am being tested spiritually to decide whether I go to Heaven or Hell. So obviously I would choose to do what is needed to go to Heaven. Only the action that is required to cross over to Heaven is considered by everyone around me to be a suicide act, which is partly why I've been in hospital against my wishes for nearly 6 weeks now. The other reason is because I have to fast i.e. No food or drink before I can cross over and so I've lost a lot of weight. I did actually try to cross over a few weeks ago but there were...'technical difficulties' and then staff interrupted me.

I have another period to cross over tomorrow night, but my fasting went wrong today as I became too weak, even though it was only a day and a half, and my parents talked me into eating and drinking. They say that I'm alive and this is all created by my brain due to schizophrenia, and that I have to choose to live, in which case my choices seem to be having schizophrenia vs being dead. Honestly, I want neither! I loved my life and was finally happy after 8 years of depression, so I really don't want to be dead...but dead people don't get to choose to live...unless they're not really dead and are just mental like everyone keeps telling me I am???

I'm so confused about it all. I've tried being logical but the Moon has an answer for everything, such as why it seems and feels like Real Life around me, why everyone says I have sz, why I have been dead 6 months now and haven't yet dissolved into Hell like I'm told I will etc etc etc And so I don't know what to do. I really really don't want to go to Hell, but I also don't want to kill myself accidentally if I am really and truly alive. Do I have a choice? Do I truly get to choose??! Last time I was given a choice, it was a trick and they kidnapped & killed my dog and then threatened to torture and murder my family. Is this another trick???

Can anybody here think of a way I can figure out if I have a choice? Because I just can't figure it out myself anymore

PS: They haven't let me see a psychologist here yet, but I am being drugged against my will with 5mg olanzapine. It won't work because APs (or psych meds in general) don't work on me, and I don't have time to waste on getting to 20mg and then trying another one: If I'm dead, then I'm scared of dissolving to Hell, but if I am alive, then I don't want to spend all summer in the psych ward because it truly is awful here.

PPS: I will try to come back here but I am on my phone which is hard to read from, and I'm drugged asleep 16 hours a day with the olanzapine :/ so it might take a while to respond but I do appreciate you reading this and responding as I feel quite lost right now

*Willow*

If you wonder if you really have a choice or not, that means you can wonder somthing. If you can wonder you are alive, and If you choose to believe choices are illusions, you are choosing to believe that instead of believing choices truly exist, therefore you can choice!

And if you can choose, then choices exist.

I don't know if this is helpful.

But who is testing you? And why what you have to do to go to heaven would actually kill you? I am not really spiritual so I don't know what Heaven is, but I guess you go there after you have lived everything you could without hurting other people. So why do you have to stop eating?

I hope everything get better for you.

Can you talk with your psychiatrist about olanzapine don't making you feeling better and actually it makes you sleep to much?

"If I'm dead, then I'm scared of dissolving to Hell, but if I am alive, then I don't want to spend all summer in the psych ward because it truly is awful here."
Have you told this to your psychiatrist?

I think it's something really importat. I guess they neither want you to die nor being in a place it's awful for you. Maybe were they worried you could die while you tried to go heaven?

Can you go heaven doing somthing that won't be considered suicide or self-harm by psychiatrist or other people?

Willow I'm concerned about you all the major religions prohibit suicide or suicide like acts....I'm not sure how you'll get into heaven that way. If you were tricked once before this could be a trick as well.

Thank you Nocter & Sometimes for the hugs and replies. I appreciate having someone other than my biased parents to bounce ideas around with.

Obviously I still have a consciousness because I can still wonder, as Nocter said, but I don't think that necessarily proves I'm alive?? For there to be an afterlife, some form of consciousness must endure somehow.

I don't know if I really *choose* to believe that choice is an illusion, or if it really is already??? I'm a bit confused about this bit.

In all honesty, I never believed in an afterlife and I don't fully understand how it works. I should have put '' around Heaven and Hell in my earlier post because that's the only way I can conceptualise them. I don't know other words for it, but I'm in a type of Purgatory place, being tested to see where I go. This isn't a religious experience at all (ie it's not linked to any religion, just spiritual), so I don't use the terms 'Heaven', 'Hell' or 'Purgatory' in a religious way but it's hard to know how else to describe it. If this were a sz delusion, why would my mind create something that I never even believed in??? So it must be real...

It also really isn't suicide as far as I'm concerned because I've already died 6 months ago and was buried. This isn't a real body or a real life. It's being called suicide by people who don't understand this spiritual experience. The only example I can think of is of a tree losing its leaves each autumn. If you didn't understand that the tree would be 'reborn' (in a sense) next spring, you could consider a tree deliberately shedding its only form of energy production in the autumn an act of suicide. Indeed the tree will look pretty 'dead' during the winter, but it hasn't killed itself, but prepared itself for its next stage in its life cycle. And that's what I have to do too, transition from 'Purgatory' to the next stage of 'Heaven', so it's not suicide at all even if it sounds like it to some people.

I have told the hospital staff how much I hate being here. (They also know of my horrific experiences during previous admissions in my home town.) They are also aware of how excessively I am sleeping. Neither issue concerns them. I'm only still on 5mg because my dr has been away for 2 weeks, but I'm sure they will increase it when she gets back next week and I will go back to feeling foggy when awake and sleep more.

I've decided not to cross over tonight. The Moon will be really displeased though. Firstly, I messed up my fasting yesterday. It was easy at first: In Feb I didn't eat and barely drank for 12 days, but now I feel awful after only a day and a half of fasting. The dissolving makes me feel weaker and then fasting makes me feel even weaker, though I feel spiritually stronger like I'm supposed to. If also doesn't help that the olanzapine has brought back my appetite. Secondly, my friend who I haven't seen in 5 years and my brother are visiting soon and I want to see them, even if it's not real, before I leave. The next window of time will be the solstice full moon and that feels powerful and an important one. I just have to not dissolve before then, so it is a big risk I am taking...it makes me nervous...

Could this all be a trick? Well, possibly. The Govt demons want me to dissolve into Hell and they are frequently torturing me with taunts and images of me being tortured way more than they used to torture me. So they could be trying to trick me into thinking I have a choice and choosing to stay here until it's too late and I dissolve. Last time they made me think I could choose between being 'ill' and going to jail, but I was a coward and 'chose' the easier option (being 'ill') and so they kidnapped my dog and killed him as punishment. But then they also tricked me into thinking I had to kill myself for real to protect my family, and my parents stopped me and everybody was fine, so they could be tricking me into hurting myself if I was actually still alive all along...

How am I supposed to know which trick it is?? My Mum said not to make a decision and to take it hour by hour, but that then becomes a decision by default and could result in me dissolving into Hell, which I don't want. I am a strong person, but this whole thing is very confusing and my brain is foggy from the olanzapine and because it is dissolving, though it also hasn't been working properly for many years now in all honesty.

I just don't know what to do and I'm scared. The moonstone necklace I bought is protecting me from dissolving to some extent because of the grace of the Moon, but if he is mad at me, then he might stop protecting me. I don't want him to start screaming at me again, but it's my fault for dithering so much. I was never supposed to be here so long :/

Sorry this is so long!

*Willow*

Thats kind of what sz delusions are though. Things you never would have believed in before.

If I were you I'd try and trust yourself, the way you thought, before all this came about. Try to think of your younger self, would you have believed this?

I believe that hallucinations and delusions have a psychological basis in that they are signs of already held beliefs or past experiences that you have etc. This is based on reading I've done as well as clinical experience. Even Kapur with his dopamine hypothesis explains how the psyche creates the specific hallucinations and delusions a person has.

I'm not sure what to make of this. My self up to 4 or so months ago didn't believe in an afterlife, but I believed in myself. So if my self is seeing all of these signs etc of an afterlife, then I would trust my self. My parents and doctors say to trust them that I have sz, but I have never trusted another person over myself since I was very little. So what now??

Thank you for replying Chickenfoot. As I said, I do appreciate being able to bounce ideas around with other people.

*Willow*

Is there such thing as a 'quiet' psychotic?? Like the idea of 'quiet' borderlines (or people with BPD as the phrase should be), where most other people don't know they have BPD because the fear of abandonment etc is all directed inwards. I ask because one of the patients here is clearly psychotic and she has decided I'm somebody I'm not and am persecuting her, so there is a lot of screaming and shouting at me whenever she sees me. I don't act like that at all. She is clearly psychotic, but I am not. I could have a conversation with anybody about a 100 different topics and no one would think I was psychotic at all, as long as they don't ask me if I'm dead and then they say I'm psychotic. I just don't relate to that label at all. My uni pdoc said my 'delusions' are "well systematised" and that my perfectionist personality has kept me "well preserved" (like I'm some salted meat! Lol), I don't even know what that's supposed to mean but it's apparently meant to justify how I don't fit the stereotype.

Also how do you know when APs start working if you don't hear voices? Am I supposed to feel chilled out? Am I suddenly supposed to wake up and know I'm alive?? Is this questioning an early sign? Though I have had similar questioning about choices and truth etc before, some of you might remember, and I wasn't on APs then so personally I don't think it is. But maybe I could tell them it is working and they won't increase the dose? Or, more likely, they would use it to justify increasing the dose so it will work more! I hate being drugged against my will :/

*Willow*

Determining if you are dead or alive is difficult. Do you believe the dead can interact with living people, as you are currently doing?

Sorry to hear you're struggling with these questions, Willow. It seems clear to me that you're alive, and the world would be diminished if you succeeded in ending your life.

In my view of the world, dead people can't post on the Internet. Since you've posted here, you're alive. IMO one should avoid causing others to suffer if one can, and your parents will be hurt by your death.

It doesn't sound like you're talking about being alive vs being dead, though. You're starting with the premise that you're already dead and asking if you can choose between heaven and hell? If that's the question, I reject the idea that you're dead, and I reject the idea that there's a hell. Or if there's a hell, it's something we endure right here while we're alive, not a place of punishment after we die.

So I guess I'd say you have no choice because there's nothing to choose between.

I had this exact problem while I was in hospital. There were people who were obviously psychotic and I kept comparing myself to them and telling the nurses I clearly didn't need to be there.
One nurse explained to me that when people are ill it is affected by the persons personality as well. So if you are a quiet person you will have more internal struggles and if you are very extrovert it might be louder.
So yes I believe there is such thing as a 'quiet psychotic'

I am some kind of "quiet psychotic" too. I know in the past I have been totally incoherent. But I didn't tell anyone what I was thinking because I rarely tell people what I think/plan to do. I just analyze it a ton of times. I doen't matter I believe someone is following me or wanting to hurt me, I would never confrot them. I would hide in a "quiet" way making some kind of excuse (I am tired, I have a lot of work to do, ...).

About meds... I don't know what to say. Maybe could you ask them how do you know meds are working?

I'm one of the "quiet" types when I'm psychotic as well. If someone talked to me yes they would know(I tend to talk in word salad when I'm having a bad episode), but I don't do the shouting and breaking stuff kind of thing. I just get really withdrawn and I am disinclined to interact with anyone.

I'm naturally a pretty quiet person, so it stands to reason that does make a difference in how my psychosis manifests.

I think you might relate to this.

Sorry for the late replies. They've increased my olanzapine and so I've been sleeping far too much and my thoughts feel like they have lead weights attached :/

Its lovely to hear from you Gr3tta! Hope you are well.

It's complicated, and you will probably think I'm crazy, but I am in a purgatory-type place that is created by my mind, so I'm not dead and interacting with the living world. Everyone and everything is created by my mind to mimic Real Life, but it's not. This is the point where people start protesting that they are real, but it's like in a dream where every character you meet has a back story. No one in a dream tells you they're not real, do they? So this is similar to that.

And now you all think I'm really crazy!

*Willow*

Nice to hear from you Costello! I hope you and your family are well.

The whole choice thing IS confusing. My parents say I can choose to be alive as they already say I am alive, but that feels like choosing to lie to myself that I'm not dead and hope I don't dissolve to hell. I've already tried lying to myself before, pretending that Dog is Max because others say he is, but he's not, and this feels the same, so I don't really consider that an option.

Crossing over wouldn't hurt my parents because they and the rest of my purgatory would cease to exist. My Real Life parents were already hurt when I died 6 months ago and they buried me in January, so they have no idea of this existence and crossing over wouldn't affect them. If anything, my Real Life parents would want me to go to 'heaven' rather than 'hell'.

Idk...it's very confusing to me. I have asked if I can meet with the hospital psychologist to see if he's nice and I can talk to him about this stuff without him putting me in a crazy box within 2 seconds of meeting me! But I don't know how long the waiting list is. I've already been here 6 weeks (I think)

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Thank you Justme, Nocter & Atypical for your comments. It's nice to know I'm not the only one! It makes sense to me that my personality would affect my presentation, but in my home town I got told I was faking it all because I didn't fit the stereotype, and I really don't feel 'ill' or seem myself as ill in any respect, so that's given me something more to think about anyway, so thank you!

*Willow*

i hope any of this will help you, i cant think straight right now but i can tell a story

i took a lot of drugs and reached a point where i could die or go to prison. i didnt like any so i was given a third, at that point yet unknown option. in a weeks time my parents took me to a hospital and i was similarly given olanzapine with poor knowledge of it. i gained a lot of weight due increased appetite and i slept all days. at that point i thought i was in some kind of afterlife, that im only alive because they are drugging my tap water and everyone is trying to get me to jail. i told my psychiatrist im pregnant with a dead baby and i have cancer and liver and kidney failure.

couple weeks later i was transferred to a better department and got a new psychiatrist. she is a person i can really talk to. i tried maybe 10 different APs before settling to 15mg olanzapine and fluphenazini dihydrochlorium. i can now function almost completely normally, the tiredness and appetite went away, so did most of my illusions.

i think my brains are kind of impaired but thats nothing compared to the normalcy the pills allow. i remember being drugged against my will, being told ill stay whether i want or not. my endless philosophical theories and all the dellusions. it gets better, with time they will find a combo of pills which will work for you

in my case i was told i did enough and am allowed to die now, but i didnt want to so we settled for this. i call it the afterlife but its slowly transforming to my own little heaven. try to make it as your mother says day to day. it will get better. your body needs time to accept all the pills

I agree. I went for years changing meds and going off meds and ending back up in the hospital. Finally found a combo that worked at 30. I still hear and see things, and have some beliefs that people think are strange, but I am functional enough to go to school.

thorazine abilify alprazolam gabapentin temazepam

Willow you are alive. Spirits don't post on the internet. Please listen to your family and doctors, they are not trying to trick you. Please hold on till they find the right medication to help you. I'm on two antipsychotics, Saphris, and Geodon. They work well for me, but I've been on others. I'm stable , and surprisingly happy right now. I know you're alive because I know I'm alive. Give the medication time to work, it might not always make you so sleepy, or they can try a different medication that might work better for you. Please eat, you're alive and your body needs nourishment to stay healthy. You are not going to hell, you are not in purgatory please believe me. My prayers are with you. I wish you the best.

Thank you for the kind replies My issue is that even if I am 'psychotic', they reckon 30% don't respond to antipsychotics at all and 30% only partially, so what am I supposed to do if I'm one of those?! I've been on about 30 meds/combinations and only aripiprazole had a partial response on the voices (which I don't hear anymore anyway). My hospital pdoc is already talking about what AP she will try after the olanzapine!! I did the whole medication merry-go-round thing for many years and it just made everything worse for me, both because of side effects with no benefits, and because of this crazed desperation that the next one would be 'the one'. Getting off meds was the best thing because I was able to finally live the life I had instead of holding out for a life I couldn't have.

I was told in my Hearing Voices group (I go to help others, not because I hear voices currently) to "celebrate" the medication (ironically enough by a guy who takes 2 antipsychotics and is still severely symptomatic!!), but it feels like I've taken several steps backwards in 'recovery' to be suckered back on the medication merry-go-round

Who told you that you were allowed to die? How did you negotiate to stay in the afterlife? Do you still believe it's the afterlife or did the meds change your mind? I could **possibly** make a meaningful life here in the afterlife, I'm not sure, but only under assurances that I wouldn't dissolve and go to 'hell'. As it stands, the Solstice full moon is my next chance to prove myself to the Moon and cross over, and I am fully committed to that. My brother is visiting then though so it will be hard not to eat or drink with him around, but I have to stay strong. The olanzapine makes me spiritually weaker so it's harder to fast, which makes it all the more necessary to do so.

*Willow*

Is the fasting, in and of itself, what you need to do to cross over into heaven? Or are there additional acts you need to perform?

it came more like a feeling, i simply knew. from my perspective i was given a choice and took the third. im alive but take every day as an extra one, as if i shouldnt be. i think i have some sort of a mission to do now that ive survived. are you going to be okay? whats with the crossover?

Update: The staff stopped me crossing over at the Solstice. I'm very upset about it. I fasted for 8 days (not to cross over, to become more spiritually focused/stronger) and everyone freaked out and I almost had to go to the medical hospital for forced fluids. And they threatened to sedate me if I took the fluids out. My parents got really upset about the whole thing.

I hate being here so much, it's actually making me feel suicidal (which is different to crossing over, though I don't fully understand how that could work being dead already). The meds still aren't helping and now they're forcing me to take a benzo too which I'm really not happy about as I avoid them like the plague! They're to make me not worry so much about breaking my fast, but I just get really upset when they wear off instead.

And the psychologist says I'm too crazy to work with just yet, so everyone seems to be waiting for the olanzapine to kick in...only they won't because they don't work on me. I'm feeling really homesick. They won't even let me go out for a walk around the grounds on my own anymore

TL;DR I'm still around

*Willow*

How are you doing?