[wisewoman]

I don't know how or why. I spoke with my ex sister in law accidentally and afer I was moved to call the mother. She told me I was hallucinating a lot back then and these things never happened. I told her that we needed to make a decidion about where to go from here. We could pretend they don't exist, (yeah) or we can figure a mutual ground. She said that my conversation was confusing and going around in circles. Part of me wishes she has a heart attack and dies in her sleep. No, I take that back, all of me wishes. Man she was her same old manipulative self and of course she was the victim. I hurt beyond words. She denies everything. I have to say I think I hate her.

[wi_fighter]

(((((((((((((Wisewoman)))))))))))

[Rapunzel]

She was very invalidating to you, and I'd bet that she's pretty much always been that way. It's too bad that some people have to be that way. Maybe she didn't experience what you did, but that's no excuse for her to deny your reality.

TC,
Rap

[wisewoman]

Thanks Rap, I have a feeling that this will be a big haory growth deal. Is there a way I can freward you the email I just sent?

wisewoman,
I think you were VERY brave to face your mother-- I hope you see how brave that was of you!!

Oh, of course-- like my mother-- they are the victims!!

I'm so sorry she didn't validate you. --- I think some people just never change- unfortunately. I can understand that hurt inside. (if only this time, she will acknowledge my pain and comfort me-- things will be better.......then it doesn't happen and hope is dashed once again )

I have confronted my mother on just little tiny things and she denies them-- invalidates me... so I don't think I will ever go there with the big stuff!!! I will be forever wrong in her eyes-- but I know in my heart-- what the truth is!

I'm so sorry you are hurting I'm here for you.

mandy

[wisewoman]

The Mother, I decided that may no holes be barred. it doesn't matter, you feel like a victim so this will affirm this for you.Your telling me that I was hallucinating is classic. You are at the end stage of your life so think about this and what you would like to do. The truth is you did beat the %#@&#! out of me. So did Dad but you more. There are people to validate but it doesn't matter. What do you want to do with this? Hmm? You can leave it and you will end your life and go to whatever is beyond with this.
Now neither of you can argue this though I do remember years and years ago when Patty wrote you a letter you spoke of how crazy she was. Well, Dad, you beat the crap out of me and left welts and scars. Oh mother figure, you beat the hell out of me with such hatred that I knew you loathed my having been born. I do not need a relationship with either of you. It was a sheer fluke that I allowed myself to call. I have the knowledge and the scars and you can be a victim but I am here and I know the truth and others know the truth.

I really don't know what it means that you two gave birth to me. It has felt like a very abstract thing to me. I have done well with my life, kids are well, and spouse is well. No worries.

So you decide what you can live with as I will not, can not live a lie. I know what is and was real. I am slorry that you both had so many kids close together and that it felt overwhelming. I can well imagine. It was enough handling my 4. But please remember that I did not choose to be born and resented and hated. I was born, I had nothing to do with it. By the way what is this about telling me I knew Nicole would die? She was more healthy then the other kids, how would I ever know that? My life is lived in the reality of now. I will not lie or fake it. If you want me in your lives simply say to me that you made mistakes and lets know eachother now and move on. If you don't that's fine. Unlike what the mother said to me, I am not afraid of her dying. The call was an impulse. I don't really care what you believe or what you think. I hope that you both have peace now, toward the end of your lives. I do not believe you are evil. I believe you were overwhelmed. I am not the hallucinating person you claim., Hell, that would be nice to escape for a while. So here you are with the ball in your court. My truth is my truth and I have medical scars to show for it. Damned belt left scars, bummer.

I have my life. If I can help Jason I will gladly do so. You have not a clue who we are. I want to not have hateful feelings so I will just accept from this point fore ward that history is history and you are what you are.

[wisewoman]

Jason is a 26 year old male nephew with a serious closed head injury and the liklihood is that he will need custodial care forever. One of four brothers fathered him, the worst abuser among brothers but I would care for J in a heart beat.

[Rapunzel]

I'm sorry that your life has been this way. Nobody deserves the things that you have been through. You are welcome to write to me, or forward the letter if you wish. My email is rap@ddiamond.net and it is in my profile if you need to find it again.

Peace to You,
Love,
Rap

[wisewoman]

I received a reply to that email that speaks of being hurt and accusing me of not going to my father's mother's funeral out of spite. I loved my Nanny, the mother hated her and that was when we stopped speaking when the Nanny was dying. The day of her funeral was the day of my daughter's adoption which had been on the docket for three months and I was not about to change it to go to a meaningless fake ritual.

I am in pain right now, I feel like trash, I feel dirty, I feel contaminated by HER and her denial of what I know. I feel dirty that I spoke with her or emailed her. I feel disgusted by her continous attempts to be a victim and manipulate. She made a statement about my perception being different from hers and the others. Referring to sibs, well, I am not about to out my sibs, they have survived however they have chosen but almost every one of the nine has spoken about their own harsh horrid abuse to me.

I only ever wanted an I am sorry or validation as a kid but now, I want nothing. I want nothing from them and I want nothing from sibs who to survive have continued to be her puppet. My T scared me today speaking of how we all remember things differently. 10 people in a room will report ten different events. It scared me, like am I lying?

Wisewoman,

I'm so sorry for how you have been hurt and are still being hurt.

This is also said for me too---- Please try to see that when you feel like trash or dirty now, you are continuing your mother's power over you---- take back that power by telling yourself you are a beautiful, loving and worthy person.

I understand that doubt -- the worry that people think I'm a liar. I think what your T. was saying is that just because there are 10 different versions..... doesn't mean any one of them are wrong. We all feel and perceive things in different ways-- that doesn't mean anyone is wrong!

I hope for you that you believe in your truth and can give yourself power to deal with it in a healing way.

Thinking of you.

mandy

[wisewoman]

oh 2B I am so trying. Talking with that woman confuses me so much. And then trying to add that; "the others" think the same as she does, meaning sibs. I really didn't think I was nuts. I know at one time or another each sib has admitted to horrid abuse. I also know they do what they can to have family but with many of them living within a 5 mile radious they seldom see eachother or even speak. twice a year mostly. I can't understand or begin to explain how this is hurting. I feel like S.I. I will not because my head knows that is not the path that is healthy. She is such a stinkin little victim! Thanks for caring and please know I am hurting so badly right now. I don't understand it all but I suddenly am way fearful and feel unsafe with T. OLD, OLD crap. Please everyone surround me in love and protection.

[Rapunzel]

WW, you're not making it up. Maybe your siblings remember things differently than you do, and maybe they choose to remember things in such a way that they can stand to live with it. Memory does distort - it just works that way. Your memory might have some disortions too. I'm pretty sure that all of us remember things the way we need to. That's okay, and it doesn't make you wrong or bad or untruthful or any of those things. The fact is, your perception is your reality. You would not just choose to remember the things that you do if you had more pleasant, easier to tolerate memories that you could replace it with. Wouldn't it be nice if we could do that? Maybe some people can, like your siblings. But you didn't make this stuff up. Why would anyone do that? Some are more able or willing to deal with reality than others are. And one of the worst things people do to children (or adults - especialy grown-up children of abuse) is to tell them that their perception isn't right. Then they can't make sense of their own feelings. It's what you know and what you feel and what you remember and what you see, and it's real. I'm sorry that it was like that for you.

Love and peace and safety to you.

Rap

[wisewoman]

I am relying on T who holds the memories I could not hold and she knows the truth from where I am. The woman was sexually aroused beating me and having older brothers help. She is a sick person. Late tonight I am able to see this but daylight will bring more doubt. Wendy, I need to hear what you are saying., I feel I could live or die right now. She gave birth to me, how can she hate me so?

[Rapunzel]

I don't understand people like her. It is awful that she could have done that to you. You were an innocent child. I have heard of others who hated their own children. There is a woman I know whose mother could never stand to touch her or have her around, from the day she was born, and nobody knew why. But I don't understand it.

Please hang on. Write as much as feels helpful to you, whether you post it, or send it to me, or share it with your T, or just keep it for yourself or rip it up and throw it away. Right now you are grappling with trying to understand your past, and that will be part of your healing process. It won't always be this intense.

Take care of yourself, and treat yourself gently. You deserve peace and love and joy.

Wendy

[greenfairy]

(((((((wisewoman))))))))
i am so sorry you are going through this right now. i know the denial of one's siblings can make things feel so much worse. i know despite everything that went on in our house growing up, my father and brother are very close. he helped the kid open his own business, bailed him out of jail half a dozen times. . . the list goes on and on. it turns my stomach when my mother tells me to reach out to either one of them, "put the past behind me" and i just want to say burn in hell b*&^h!
i want you to know that i am thinking of you, surrounding you in thoughts of love and hope and protection. dont doubt your memory. dont let anyone deny the truth. i hold onto it fast. pretending it never happened for me is like feeling it happen all over again.
i'm here for you if you need to vent or cry or anything. wishing you hope and healing. youre not alone.

[wisewoman]

Thanks Wendy and Greenfairy. I am holding on but it is making me way exhausted. I am contemplating including other emails from her to here. I don't know, just that she has the power somehow still to convince me that the sky is orange and the grass white. No more. That's why I never confronted them on anything. Because I would be called a liar, sick etc. I am lucky in the sense that I have ex-sister in laws who know and see the truth.

[greenfairy]

if you have a good relationship with your ex-sister in laws, now might be the time to turn to them. for me, my grandmother was the only one who wasnt in utter denial about what happened. i never even had to tell her, she just seemed to know, or expect it. . . when she was alive i went to see her whenever i needed to be with someone who wasnt telling me to shut up, its the past, these things happen, and everything else i heard from my mother over the years. i flew there every opportunity i could, and now that shes gone i've lost that rock in my life, that one steady person i could rely on to confirm that i am not a complete loon.
if your mom is set on convincing you that pigs can fly, a little dose of confimation may be just what you need. turn to the people who can give that to you.
in the meantime i'm here if you need a shoulder to cry on or an ear to listen. sending hugs and hope your way.

[wisewoman]

I took a nap, have been up 1.5 hours and need to go back to bed. I am so exhausted. Thanks for all of the support.

[wisewoman]

Up again, amazed reading this how astute you all are and knowing what I need. Thanks. I am so exhausted. I think I have laid it out pretty well. I do understand about memories being different. I get it that sibs do what they can to survive. My Nanny was my friend. The mother hated her. She acted like such a victim when Nanny died and she wasn't even there. No one even sat with her. Had I known. Open sores, maybe have become a little absessed and need to be drained. To top it all of my back is killing me and I really do not want to take narcotics as I am already so tired and have to drive an hour to teach a class tomorrow. Class is fun.

[wisewoman]

Hmm, was coming home from teaching a felting class this afternoon and speaking with my friend. She had to point out the the phrase the mother used about; "you have done rotten things like turning Dad in to social services on little sister" I told the truth, that I hadn't done that, that a friend did, but I should have had the guts. The humor here is in her stating that was a wrong thing. Little sister had black eyes and broken blood vessels in eyes. Thank the universe I lived 3 hours away and could escape. Odd thing is that she remained angry with me for many years believing I reported and that she was hurt by the experience. She actually assaulted me at youngest sister's wedding. I did nothing wrong, even if I had called child protective services, which I didn't. My friend the nurse, therefore a mandated reporter even then reported it. And how was it rotten exactly? Sister said because he apologized the next day. I never saw an apology from him but even so, so what!!!!! Makes it okay for him to pound the crap out of her if he said sorry after. Convoluted.

However, the 50's 60's and early 70's were times when "the Board of Education" was used freely and it was acceptable to beat children. Left big scars here, that and the neglect. Neglect being worse for me.

[Rapunzel]

Abusers usually have rules about keeping the secrets. The only way to get free is to break that rule and stop keeping the secrets, but when you do break they rule, they sure know how to lay on the guilt, don't they? You did nothing wrong. It's okay to talk about what is happening, and to get help, and to protect your siblings.

[wisewoman]

I dug this up because in speaking with a friend today I have a different understanding of the exchange the female parental unit and I had a few weeks back. Here it is. I used the words, the words I could never ever say I used casually, the words never ever spoken aloud in that family. If I remember correctly I told her she beat the living poo out of me. I speak in an open-ness and with an intelligence that she can't begin to comprehend. I broke the biggest rule ever and really didn't know it till tonight. I spoke so very few words outloud, or by email to her.

It took me years in therapy to even begin to say any of the words. They made me want to hurt myself, the words. I had a battle within that tore me apart. It took me forever to learn to just cry, no self harm, no hiding, just crying. I never even knew how to cry.

So it is a testament that I am healing that i quite casually told her the very basics, she beat the crap out of me. I broke the rules. No one in that family knows what to do with me, I am so open with the words now. Even way back I would discuss things others thought was inappropriate. My brother's house burned probably close to 30 years ago and another brother who was living there was in shock. Firefighters removed the bodies of the 2 dogs and 2 cats and the other brother just was in shock. My instinct was to talk about it with him. To validate his experience at the horror he endured. She kept telling me to shut up. He needed to talk about the trauma. The animals were the biggest trauma and so we discussed smoke inhalation.

I am more clear in my head now, the woman is nuts and I am not. I am sane, I got away, I can't pretend because I have to live in honesty and sincerity.

I can't say that the cycle has been broken with this generation. I can see that some of the neices and nephews were abused. I have not of course heard anything about the nephew with the severe brain injury.

May the cycle be broken with our children's generation. No more torture of children.

[mlyn]

chain be broken for sure. Greatest hope!!!!

[wisewoman]

thanks myln

[wisewoman]

I can't sleep again. Yuck. I spoke with my friend today about this contact with the family and she thought it was a good thing that I wrote what I did. We spoke about the use of language and how we need to learn the language to describe the events that we can taste smell hear and see. I am in a place where I am feeling the need for hand-holding on EVERYTHING. It is not like me. However, today as life happens I was again reminded that I am a competent person. I am feeling less then that however. Life goes by so fast and before we know it an entire growing up has happened and where was I? I am having a weird time with my kids being all grown up and me still having parental issues. It is just too weird. Just in a rotten head place tonight.