[robnyt]

My Dad has had depression issues for the last couple of years. A great deal of this stems from his hatred of his father who was truly a terrible, evil person. Tortured and abused by this man, he felt a true sense of relief when he passed away a few years ago. However, because my Dad is such a good, decent, and sensitive man, he feels guilt over the fact that whenever he thinks of this person he feels the hate swell inside of him. This leads to my opening question, "is it ok to hate"? He feels that only when he forgives his father will he truly be free. I believe that some people are worthy of your hatred and it's perfectly fine to feel that way about them.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

[jennie]

i hate the THINGS my father did to me and my siblings as a child. part of me wants to hate him completely, but he is my father. i guess i mostly pity him.

is it okay to hate? i believe hate is coupled with many health problems in the long run. i think heart disease, high blood pressure are two health risks for holding hatred in one's heart. hate results from a rigid attitude. being more flexible about things and people (allowing others to have faults) is a more healthier way to live. so if you value your health, then i'd say that holding hatred of another person for an extended period of time is not an okay thing to do.

[i] <font color=purple> Absolve you to yourself, and you shall have the suffrage of the world." Ralph Waldo Emerson</font color=purple>

[robnyt]

All valid points, but what about hating without dwelling. I agree sitting in the corner of a room in the fetal position working yourself up into a lather is not the way to go. Will absolutely make you ill. But can't you just internally acknowledge that you hate this particular person, you have every right to hate this individual, and move on? I think the opposite would make me unwell. If there was someone that I dispised and I didn't allow myself to feel those emotions, THAT would make me sick. Literally.

[darkeyes]

One question comes to mind, has he ever sought professional help for this?
He can get through this, there are times when one must seek help if they want to move forward, and looking into seeing a therapist would benefit him greatly.
To hate can be just as natural as to love, but getting hung up in either's web can be dangerous.
If I were your dad I would look into seeing a mental health professional, life is too short to live miserably, and today it is unecessary, there are many options. . .choices that can be made.
I wish you luck with this all.

DE

In giving advice seek to help, not please your friend
SOLON

[robnyt]

This is the frustration. Yes, my Dad (relatively young at 63) is under the care of a mental health professional. However, he uses the doctor only for the purpose of receiving perscription medication a.k.a. "Happy pills". Unfortunetly these only work on a VERY minor level and my Dad is unwilling to discuss his situation with the therapist. Ask him how he's doing and the response you'll get is "fine". If only that were the truthful answer. I can not make him talk, so I remain stuck in the unenviable position of being completely helpless to do anything. Not fun.

[darkeyes]

I am dealing with that with my mom, she has dementia and depression and loads of health problems, besides being on insulin, you are right it isn't fun
Have you considered talking with a therapist yourself for some guidance with this it can help you.
I am send you good wishes and hugs of hope with this.

In giving advice seek to help, not please your friend
SOLON

[listener]

Hate is an emotion. It's not an action. To forgive is an action. We can't help what we feel. There is no judgment in feelings. We can forgive, but yet we can also recognize the wrong that was done, the damage it caused and stop it from happening again.

robnyt - You are not responsible for making your father do anything. That has to be up to him. It's great to be able to support his choices, but you can't fix it for him. As much as we would like to make things better for those we care about, we can't do the changing for them or make them do it.

It's the same with forgiving someone of terrible wrongs. You can forgive, but that doesn't change the wrong or the person, They need to make that difference in themselves..The difference that forgiving makes is within yourself.

Take care of yourself, lis

[conklinca]

I know I typed a reply, but now I don't see it, so here I go again:

I don't think your dad hates his, because if his feelings of relief at his death, anger, etc. were really hate, he wouldn't be wanting forgiveness for his dad. Forgiveness is wanting a person to be pardoned for sins committed, and even though the negative feelings and consequences will always remain, this doesn't mean your dad hasn't forgiven his. Forgiveness doesn't mean all your relationship problems are gone.

No, I don't think anything positive comes from hate.

[(JD)]

IMHO I think it is ok to hate... but at whose expense? Remember how Christ cleared the temple of the money changers? It was a good reason to show intense displeasure, and included a "violent" action...yet didn't change Him at all.

Anger and hate are normal reactions to abuse. We're human. Once we recognize those reactions, then it's our responsibility to take care of ourselves and not let them rule us.

Please research anything I suggest before believing...

[yokus]

I most definitely think it is okay to hate your abusers. When I think about them or talk about them hate is the only word I can think of to use. The key is to work with a therapist on your abuse issues and not let them control your life. I also believe that only the person that was abused can help themselves. It has to be their choice. Personally, I never intend to stop hating these people because in a way it helps me to not take on the guilt myself. I don't dwell on it -the hatred- but I do work with a counselor. Forgive? Not a chance. Not in a million years. But then my abusers were not family. I think the only thing you can do is encourage him to see a therapist. He has to do the rest.

[(JD)]

I agree Yokus... I also will not forgive... that would first require that someone apologize to me and i know they haven't a clue as to what they are doing to me.

As for you with childhood abusers, I often wonder if they have any conscious or real ability to love, especially to feel remorse.

Please research anything I suggest before believing...

[conklinca]

I'm not sure the Christ-moneychanger is a good illustration of why hate is okay, because nowhere did it give the impression that Christ hated these people--He still wanted forgiveness for them. I do agree, though, that it shows there is a place for anger and that anger can be appropriately expressed through active means.

[evolvedmermaid]

robnyt - I'm new here, but I was just talking with my son earlier today about this very subject because I'm very depressed & he acts like such a jerk sometimes & I know I haven't been a wonderful mother all the time & I wanted him to know how bad it can be because he always looks at the glass as half-empty.

My father is a pedophile. I told him in 1976 I didn't want to have anything to do with him anymore. (I'm 55 now & I think he's still alive - although he'd be 84 now.) I didn't know when I told him that what-all he had done to me as a small child; I just knew I couldn't stand the way he treated me as an adult. I moved to the East Coast, so I was 3000 miles away. About 5-6 years later, he found my mailing address & I got a strange letter from him: (the beginning part of it) "This long silence makes it look to my friends as if I've done something very wrong. Therefore, I want you to write me & tell me why so I can use the letter as the basis for an action for slander against you - EVEN IF YOU DON'T SAY ANYTHING [my caps]". A few years later, in therapy, it came out that he had sexually abused me starting when I was quite young. Then I understood the letter - his underlying guilt & fear.

About 5-6 years after that, I got a very short note from him (this is the whole thing): Dear J------, Many years ago I formed a new political party called R.A.P. - the Retroactive Abortion Party - and I enrolled you as the first member. Dad.

It took completely separating myself from my family (& having my own children) to realize how truly bizarre everything about him is.

I put together my recollections of his parents & what I knew of his upbringing. I believe pedophilia ran in that family. From what I've heard, it wouldn't have been too surprising if his exceedingly strange & disconnected mother had sexually abused all 3 of her sons. & it was likely perverse-type sex, from what I've learned, including a bizarre letter my father wrote to my mother after they got divorced.

What I was talking about with my son today was that the small amount of understanding I gained about how my father came out to be the way he was didn't lessen the pain or the damage, but it did make it make sense in a weird way - that it didn't come completely out of left field. For some reason that helped. I even told my son that when I was imagining my father as a child & what he must have gone through, I felt some compassion. But not when I thought of him as an adult because then we become capable of making choices, & I know my son thinks I could've been a way-better mother, but I know that most people who grow up as I did don't even survive, much less raise children who, although resentful, know they are loved.

I would say, after many years of going through all kinds of stages of realization & feelings, that I am not so much mad AT my father, as I am mad FOR myself, on my behalf. Like that protective feeling I would get if a mountain lion charged at one of my kids - I would know the lion wasn't "evil", but I would feel FIERCELY protective.

It seems to me it - like most things - involves stages, & each one has to be honored (although I don't believe there's necessarily any certain order to be followed) to evolve psychologically to a comfortable place.

I hope this message coming from one who's had a lot of rage to deal with is helpful - JJ

[bptoo]

Hi robnyt,

Welcome to the forums! Man, what a great question! And so appropriate to me. I was abused by my Grandfather from the time I was three years old until I turned fourteen and learned how to fight back, God, how I hated the man! But my hatred didn't stop there. Anything could bring it on, not getting my way, if I thought someone had treated me unfairly, etc. This went on for many years. I got in a lot of fights in school, but always with kids who could defend themselves. I knew what it was like to be beaten by someone who you couldn't defend. It wasn't until my first wife was pregnant with our first baby that I really started to think about who and what I wanted to be, and what my child needed me to be. I guess I was at a crossroads. I decided then and there that I wasn't going to be like my Grandfather, I was going to have love and give it in return. I've had horrible things to deal with these many years, but I don't think that I've ever purposely mistreated another person. I don't I'm going to hell when I die, at least I hope not.

I believe that everyone of us comes to a crossroads at some time in our lives. When your Dad comes to his, he needs to decide to hold onto the hate, or decide that it's been long enough and let it go. I hope he chooses the latter.

But this is just my opinion, and most of the time doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

Best of luck, and keep coming back,
bptoo

"When you get the choice to sit it out or dance, I hope you dance."

[lorieann]

Hello...I am new to this forum...having just discovered it about a week ago. I suffered through years of abuse...from the age of three until the age of 15. Hatred is a problem for me. It feels like I have been going on powered by pure hatred for years now. It feels like its all I have. Its such a powerful emotion. But I cannot control it. Even if i did not feel hatred for my abusers...i would still never forgive them. There were horrible acts of perversion and violence that have happened to me that I can never erase from my memories. Smells and certain music trigger me and the flashbacks are so frequent and so real that I feel like its happening to me all over again.
I cant stand to be touched...hello kisses make me crazy...hugs make me stiffen up and shy away. I find it very hard to be around people..and have no respect for men. They scare the hell out of me. So...if you ask me...sometimes...its impossible NOT to hate. I am no saint...and no hypocrite either...i'm not going to pretend to forgive them...or pretend I dont hate them when all I want to do is see them suffer like they made me suffer. I guess I have a long road to recovery. But I dont think therapy will take away my pain. Its just something I live with. But its kind of nice to know I'm not alone with my pain...
thanks for listening
lorieann

[(JD)]

hello again lorie. Good to meet you on the chat. IMHO you are already on the way to reducing your "problems" since you know many of those triggers and memories...

come back and post often, there are many ppl here who have good support for you.

...I can misspeak like the best of us

[lorieann]

OH! HEY! yeah you guys have a nice chatroom....lol thanks for the welcome.

[(JD)]

Just another thought... God hates. He specifies what He does hate, but he does hate...

...I can misspeak like the best of us

[4hope]

Robnyt
Hi,
I am new to this board, my name is 4hope. I felt compelled to comment on this issue of hate. From my own experience and from what I've read about this, forgiveness is the key to release the guilt. In fact, forgiveness is an act of self love. It free's the person from hate, bitterness and resentments, thereby allowing room for the person to heal. When we fester hate or resentments this is carried over to our loved ones and we can become exactly what we hate. This hate will not harm anyone but the person who is stuffing it away. Forgiveness allows us to cleanse ourselves of the toxic emotions of hate and gives one a feeling of acceptance and serenity. We cannot change the past, but we can change the way we view things and how we process what happened. We are all basically here to survive life, with its many hills and valleys and some of us along the way are hateful, but that hate will be your hate if you choose it to be, or that hate can be relinqushed with forgiveness.
Peace and love
4hope

[SundaysChild]

Here! Here! I agree with you completely. When we hate someone, we hold ourselves in bondage to that person. It occupies our thoughts and can spur us to act out according to that hate.

We can forgive, but we don't need to forget what was done to us. We remember in order to stay out of harms way next time, but we don't use up precious energy on someone who doesn't deserve it.



"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived."