Do any of you know what is 'ugly' to men?

Can't ask the blokes as it's forbidden to go on their side, so just some input from the ladies? Maybe it's my own mind right now, but I feel ugly, externally. Internally, I think I am discovering something tremendous. I think I would feel flattered if men glanced my way (even though I am married) but I don't think it ever happens. To be honest, I don't pay much attention to them (men) anymore. This post is just a vent mostly, and a request for opinions from other people. I'm not naive, I know people find all sorts of looks 'attractive', hmm, maybe a better secondary question: Is it normal to feel ugly and ignored when you are going through a relationship crisis? This seems so superficial and I am almost ashamed to post this, but maybe if I release this; excise it from my reality, then I can move on and concentrate more fully on the good things that I feel within despite my situation.

"To be honest, I don't pay much attention to them (men) anymore."

This is probably why. You aren't putting out any vibes. I took a workshop on finding a man taught by a man. Sounds corny and superficial but he had some good advice. One was wearing shapely clothes no matter what size you are. Not necessarily the tight kind unless that's your style. Just not anything that hides that you are female.

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Hi Michanne,

Well, I think I wear reasonable clothing. Nothing too revealing but also nothing too gauche or ill fitted. I think it's probably my face...or wait, are those make-up subliminal ads creeping into my mind while I am in a vulnerable state? LOL. I don't think I'd be willing to take a class on this myself, but I am interested in hearing more about the keypoints that you took away.

The phrase "normal" seems to be open for debate around here. Everyone's normal seems to differ a little. To me it is definitely the norm.

The most important part had to do with knowing yourself. Of course that is more for people that really are looking for a long term mate. Others were playing with your hair and minimal makeup. I had a boyfriend that liked lots of makeup which I don't do except certain occasions so what ev. I doubt it is your face unless you have a major deformity. My area is high on the list of fittest states. You don't have to be athletic but I have been depressed and in morning for quite a while. I have lost weight but still not in great shape and my skin doesn't look great. Being in this state doesn't help that much. That's my insecurity.

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I'd have to say it definitely sounds normal to have low self-esteem when going through emotional turmoil, especially due to something like a relationship crisis. I think if you're having trouble feeling attractive to your mate, for whatever reason and in whatever way, you feel unattractive to the rest of the world. And yes, those air-brushed, photoshopped models in all the ads are not doing anyone any favors.

I think the point Michanne mentioned about knowing yourself isn't just for finding a long term partner. When you know yourself and have confidence in who you are, then you won't be as concerned with looking attractive to other people. You'll feel beautiful, know you're beautiful -- inside and out -- and not go searching for acceptance or approval from others. I realize this is much easier said than done, but I do still believe it, even if I'm not 100% confident in myself a lot of the time either. It's definitely a lot of work and not an easy journey, but I think it's worth it.

I'm sorry to hear that you're going through a tough time right now.

According to my husband (the topic has come up in the past) the two most unattractive features in women are insecurity and frump.

I get what you're saying though. It's nice to feel attractive. I used to get the attention of guys when I was out and about, but now I'm getting older and it doesn't happen anymore. I'm married, I'm not hoping to pick a guy up, but would like to think I still got it.

You are married. Your husband must have liked you. Why is it important what anyone else thinks?

I don't find it superficially stated, whatsoever. To answer the thread question, 'what is 'ugly' to men?' A woman can be a super model beauty, but if her personality is ugly, so is she. Sounds cliché, but it's reality.

Looking for attention, outside your marriage, can be a slippery slope, at the same time, if it's something you need in order to rebuild your self confidence, and it's done with an air, of noticing being noticed, without crossing any lines, then start paying attention to your surroundings. I state it's a slippery slope, because, then it could start to play on your mind, with a grass is greener scenario, which, truly it is not.

Have you checking into the forum here, on Self Esteem? Or, the Relationships and Communication Forum, to address anything within your relationship, that others could help you sort through and perhaps learn ways to express the needs that need addressing, since you mention being in the midst of a relationship crisis.

Is your husband, feeding into this sense of not feeling attractive, or is this something completely from within?

What steps can you take, to regain your confidence levels about your femininity?

Sometimes, basic steps, such as using make up or dressing up, a little more than usual. Going from workout clothes to something that leaves you feeling more alive and vibrant, can help.

Are you feeling 'ugly'/'unattractive' or are you feeling a bit 'frumpy' and in need of just attending to your outer dress appearance, how you present yourself can go a long way.

I know that in my marriage, I stopped tending to my feminity, but that started with jabbing insults, as to 'who are you putting make up on for?' Who are you trying to impress, you are going out like that?(in regards to wearing a casual skirt one day). My marriage epitomized controlling behaviors, and it wasn't conducive to feeling good about myself. I didn't even feel comfortable looking up, to dare catch a glimpse of a man, because that would invoke a jealous tirade. I hope, your relationship, is nothing like that. And I hope, this is just you being in a bit of a rut, from routine and the daily mundane.

emitting an ugly self image. and apart from that it varies from man to man.

He really doesn't count anymore. Don't respect him.

Low self-esteem is "ugly" to men and women. That's a biggie!

I learned a lot from men from the period where I was single and dating. For men, what is most important is the overall package: Being in decent shape (not perfect but average or nice figure), self confidence, being well put together and attractive clothing (frumpy is a huge turn off).

I've realized that women worry way too much about their face, mostly from all the advertising in the cosmetic industry. So long as your face is not disfigured as another poster said, it's not as important to men as most women think. Here is an interesting example: My friend who is 45 lives in a wealthy town where there are a lot of mom's in their 40's and some in early 50's. Most of the people take care of themselves as they have the time and money to do so. An older mom left after dropping off her kid for a playdate and my friend noticed her wrinkles and thought she looked older than she was. Since she was wealthy she was surprised she didn't do more to look younger (like botox). Her husband responded "why? she looks amazing!". She was slim and in great shape, nicely dressed and had shoulder length shiny hair. He said he didn't even notice the wrinkles and thought she looked younger than she was. I've found that to be consistent when I started dating...good information I thought! Sometimes women are far more critical of every detail of their face that men either aren't aware of or aren't really interested in. Sure a beautiful face is always an asset, but most people know that is just luck some people are born with. It takes a lot for a guy to think a woman is ugly.

However, the more beautiful she is and the better her figure, for many men that trumps the inner beauty for a while. It catches up and the relationship is probably doomed. But especially with the alpha male type- they will tolerate a b**chy personality if the out side package is gorgeous. I know this doesn't speak for the entire population, but this has been my observation so far...

They don't like it when you exhibit any kind of masculine personality trait or wear more masculine things. It doesn't matter how good you look or comfortable you are, not identifying your gender as 100% female 100% of the time is apparently just going to be unattractive.

Also, being too smart is a detriment. Not all guys like airheads, but they don't like it when you're smarter than them or know more than them about a "guy" subject, like football or cars or something.

But then, if I were to go exclusively by my own experience, I'm ugly to men. So just be the complete opposite of me. And if you're like me, don't be yourself. I just wish it were that simple.

I don't think all that is true. I live in a state that values getting outside and exercising. It's important to a lot of people that their partner keep up because that is what they want to do. I had a female friend that is very tall, masculine and athletic. She wants a guy that will keep up with her! And she finds them.

I grew up in a state that values education and the arts. You've got tons of brilliant minds. Even education snobs. Actually I don't know that they are all that smart I work in a industry that demands smart people. Some guys do get intimidated but definitely not all. You need to find the "not all".

I will agree that most guys are more open to taking to women with form fitting clothing. My friend follows this. It doesn't have to be terribly feminine though. Just look at most of the clothes at REI. This is a pretty easy fix and you don't have to loose your personality in the process. Your hair should suit you but any length will do.

I've said this to you before... I really think you are in the wrong city or state. I say this not even knowing where you live.

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Even if I live in the wrong area, I can't move for three years (grad school) and then I'll end up wherever I can find a job. I probably won't even be able to choose what part of the country. Or if I can stay in the country.

There's clearly something ugly about me though. I've just ruled out physical appearance (unless I'm still too "fat") and I can hold a long conversation with virtually anyone so it's not because I'm boring or too quiet.

And there's all kinds of different people in large college towns (where I live). I mean, I've even found friends that I fit in with. So if they see me as ugly here, I doubt they're going to come running anywhere else.

Well think it over then. you have 3 years. I wouldn't sell yourself too short on a job. Social media makes it possible to stay connected.

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There aren't a lot of (open) jobs in my field, so I'm lucky to get one. I don't get to choose where I live.

Three more years of being alone. Lovely.

Aww, IATE.

What a post, girl. I have to admit, I am guilty of being pretty tomboyish and rugged. I think being who you are is important. You are beautiful just the way you are! We all are, even the men who only go for the "Barbie-esque" women and the Barbie chicks and all points in between. We are all beautiful. I feel so bad for making this post, I didn't mean to upset anyone...I was just having a crappy day. Maybe you are too. You're perfect just as you are as long as YOU are content with who you are.

You know, I am trying so, so SO hard to move past 'disliking' men now. My feelings aren't their fault. 9/10, I know neither of us wants attention from some superficial you know what, so let them get in where they fit in. More power to them. I went through this phase where I was convinced that I had to pull out all the stops, bells and whistles for one to give me the time of day. I realized it simply wasn't me. It's not who I am, outside or inside. And that's ok. If a man sees me and he does not like what he sees...he can look over there! Or at that tree. Maybe he will be lucky and the tree will have a naked woman in it that appeals to him. Yay! Everyone wins. It's been a long time coming, but now I am starting to understand that I set the parameters for 'me'. I think I can deal with being celibate for the rest of my life once I become unhitched. A man will have to be quite a special somebody to earn a spot in my life after all I have endured. I think my mind was getting the best of me the day I posted the OP. Now, I say screw em all. I look in the mirror and see a person that I love and that is enough. Look at what most men go ga-ga over...I know I can't compete with computer generated illusions, so I don't even try.

I hope you feel better today and all days.

The thing is, you're still a "real" woman in mind and body. My body is female and I suppose I'm seen as "female", but mentally/gender-wise, I don't think I'm "female". I sometimes wonder if I'm allowed to be on this board, but physically I'm female, so I guess I am. But why would a guy like me? Wouldn't that make them kind of gay? And most straight guys seem to be self-conscious about appearing gay.

I've also noticed that having a lack of experience in dating is ugly to guys. Nobody wants to be a "teacher" or deal with the fact that you don't know the stuff that you're supposed to. So anyone younger reading this, get as much experience as you can while you can because by the time you're in your mid-20's you're expected to have been in multiple relationships so you're not wasting the dude's time.

Which is interesting because women around ~40 get hit on all the time by 20 somethings.

Seriously... In reality I think you are dumping all men into the same bucket unfairly. Didn't you see the 40 year old virgin? Or Lars and the Real Girl? They might be comedies but there is a lot of truth in them.

some men think needy is unattractive, trying to hard is unattractive--men like the chase. Many men are very attracted to a very confident woman.

Yeah, because those guys want girls with experience, so you're just giving examples of what I just said.

Inexperienced is considered ugly now for girls as well as guys.

Tongue in cheek.

The point is not to make a blanket statement about what people value or don't.

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