NA Meetings

I think it is time to force myself to attend NA meetings...or at least one meeting to give it a try. There are many to choose from that are not too far away, but I'm afraid to go. Most of the people already know each other and I'll just be the outsider.

I should have started going a long time ago but I don't think I was ever really ready to get help. I liked the feeling of being numb and happy, like nothing really mattered. I still like the feeling but I know this isn't healthy and I am so serious about snapping out of my depression and improving my well-being the right way.

I'm just so scared and nervous. And I guess part of me knows once I start going- that's it. The addiction really does have to end.

Why is this so hard? I've already relapsed 4 times within 2 years. I feel like this will never end.

Well it is so hard because it is our best friend. It is really hard to give up your best friend even though your best friend is killing you. Not a healthy relationship really when it is trying to kill you on the one hand and then telling you how great things will be on the other.

The scariest thought I ever had was imagining going my whole life without alcohol. Weed wasn't even on the table. I thought I would never give that up. The hard drugs I figured I could live without as long as I had my alcohol. Thats why we do it one day at a time because it is just to overwhelming to think about the whole thing. And we can't do it alone.

You don't have to say a word. Just go sit in the corner and listen. If you say you are new than people are going to focus on you and welcome you. Maybe that is what you need to feel accepted. I guarantee you will be accepted. It is very scary. Just take the first step. Baby steps. Just go sit and listen......chances are you will hear something. I have never been to a meeting where I didn't walk out feeling a little better.

I agree with zinco, making newcomers feel welcome is part of the program. It's like here. You will make many friends to help you on your journey through recovery. Good luck to you.

i could do with following footsteps and going to an A/A / N/A meeting. I am drumming up the courage to go.

g/l Ally. When I have been to A/A /N/A. I will post I have been. I hope that if/when you go it works out for you.

I went this route and it changed my life, although I no longer do anonymous meetings, I wouldn't tell you they are a bad idea if you're really struggling to stop. Depending on where you live, you may want to try AA for a better quality meeting even if your substance of choice isn't booze. Yes, some pure boozers may balk at you, but most won't and most people in AA now aren't pure boozers. They say the key is to go every day for 90 days. If you think about it, this is a technique to continue reinforcing the reasons not to use and supporting your non-use... anyways I do agree that early on attending as frequently as possible while working on building a new friend base early on is a great idea.

Everyone relapses, but the ones that are successful just never give up trying. I tried to quit smoking something like 30 times before it stuck. I've quit (and re-started) several addictions, this might seem weird and it might just be stupid on my part, but I really feel like when you're coming off something, being physically active like doing a really long hike and sweating and drinking lots of water, and even going into a steam room or a sauna or swimming in a pool can help you "get it out" quicker. Anyways, it might just be in my mind, LOL, but I swear I feel like that really helps and also helps you to sleep that night when you're really craving if you exhaust yourself enough. Just my little trick . Most things will clear your system physically in a few days, then its the psychological addiction.

I think I had all my relapses before I actually started attending seriously. I would go every now and again to a meeting. I chose AA over NA because the town I lived in they were much better quality meetings. Those same meetings now everyone talks about drugs. The pure boozers are way outnumbered.

I went to 270 meetings in 90 days. Three meetings a day. I wasn't working and had nothing else to do. I didn't want to be alone. The physical detox really depends on what you were doing and how heavy and for how long. Like Petra5ed said working out and sweating a lot helps. It's not the physical part it is the mental obsession part that is hard. I couldn't do it alone. I jumped in head first and replaced it with AA.

I completely understand why this would be better. Addiction is a disease with a lot of power and if there is just ONE "bad influence" I accidentally befriend, it would be a big mess. I would be relieved and ecstatic to have a "hook up" and all my cares would go away for who knows how long! The only thing is I don't think I have it in me to go every day. I get out of bed for my appointments but usually my depression is so debilitating and I am just trying to get through one day at a time. So I'm not sure how effective it would be? I'm at a loss, I have no clue where to start or what to do.

I'm not sure I have it in me to stay dedicated to it for 90 days. It sounds exhausting. I do see how the 90 days makes sense though. I tend to kick and scream the first week after stopping, then the physical symptoms ease up and I know logically I will survive. Eventually I just stop thinking about it and it gets easier with time. It is around the 45 day mark where the psychological struggle kicks in full force and the cravings are awful. Some days I felt I'd do just about anything to get my hands on the stuff, and that freaks me out. Thankfully I have never gone through with it or allowed myself to get to the point of action.

I don't think your method sounds crazy at all. It actually has a lot of medical studies to back it up. Working out (even though it feels like death at first) and sweating, drinking lots of water, and adjusting your diet help A LOT with cleansing your system of the medications or drugs...even alcohol. I think if I were to walk in a sauna I would just pass out right away. lol
I'm kinda claustrophobic and I freak out when the air I'm breathing feels to thick! The only sauna I have access to is the one at my gym, and the thought of using it gives me chills! I can't stop thinking of the bacteria and viruses that spread in there!

Are people judged when they have relapses while actively attending meetings? Or even if they start attending but have not fully stopped the addiction yet? Just wondering because I could see how it might be triggering for those who are really struggling. That's one of my biggest concerns...Along with fitting in. I'm unsure of the average age/gender demographic at those meetings. I know it would help having just ANYONE who can relate to my pain and struggle, but I think it would also be helpful to relate on other levels. I'm 26, in college, no kids, not married, don't live on my own yet...I think I will take your advice and go sit in a corner and listen a couple times. I'm surrounded by weekly narcotic meetings so I actually want to try those first so I could relate more while getting off the stuff. I think AA would be better for maintenance though.

I completely agree with the mental obsession being the hardest part. There are moments for me where the physical and mental distress are pretty equal, because I suffer from chronic back pain and pretty much have my whole life, but the psychological stuff is always the worst. During those phases I hate people and I am super irritable with whoever I come in contact with. It's terrible.

My therapist has always told me "You have to replace a bad habit with a good one in order to be successful in kicking the bad habit". Same goes for addiction. I hope I get something out of attending the meetings and I could replace my addiction with those instead...and working out.

I strongly recommend you just take the first step and go sit and listen. The demographics are much younger now than they used to be. Lots of twenty somethings and thirty somethings. You could relate to people in their 30's. Men out number women but there are lots of women. The women really tend to reach out to someone new. The women stick together like glue and really bond and watch out for eachother. More so then men. the men do to but it takes longer.

No you are not judged if you relapse. You are welcomed back and people are glad you made it back. No one is going to recommend you relapse and some are going to say you are lucky you made it back because often people don't. There is a saying that alcoholism/addiction leads to one of three places...jails, institutions, and death. This is true. Relapse is a part of recovery for many it is just a risky business. I know a guy who relapsed over and over and over again over a ten year period. He kept coming back and copping to it. Today he has ten years and is a big leader in AA.

You have a couple of issues going on. The depression and the chronic pain. Don't worry about 90 in 90 or how you are gonna make it past 45 days and all of that. The depression will keep you from making meetings. that is just the way it is. There are tons of people in AA and NA with dual diagnosis. If you make a couple of friends you can email and text or talk on the phone if you can't get to meetings. There are online meetings and support groups such as here. This section is not that active but there are others out there.

Don't worry about anything in the future, just get yourself to one meeting and sit and listen. Maybe say you are new and are an addict and that is it. You already admitted it here and that is a huge step.

NA Recovery - Narcotics Anonymous Chat and Online NA Meetings for Drug Addicts

I found a group of people within AA who also suffered from depression. We had our own casual support group outside the meetings. Meaning we were friends and often talked about meds and depression. Sometimes if I ran out of Effexor I had someone I could call and get some until I could get a refill....things like that.

The first meeting I ever went to I was half drunk. Other meetings I attended on and off over the years the first thing I would do was go get a six pack after the meeting.

When I was finally ready to really get sober it has actually been easy ever since and far as the obsession. The moment I made a decision to check myself into a treatment center I experienced a huge psychic shift. I was at my bottom. There is another saying that you can get off the elevator at any floor. Everyone's bottom is different. Not everyone has a huge psychic shift right away everyone is different.

My story is complicated in the beginning because the last five years of my using I was doing meth heavy. But the reason I went to so many meetings and jumped in head first was because I was flying high. My depression was totally gone.

A lot of people are court ordered (a nudge from the judge) and have no intention of staying or getting sober. Once they are done with court requirements they figure they are out of there. There are a whole bunch of those people who decide to stay and stay sober.

You worry you won't fit in. If you are an addict I predict you will never have experienced a place where you fit in more. Most of us have always felt like we didn't fit in anywhere and finally we found a place.

Some people get what we call a pink cloud. Maybe you go to a couple of meetings and have a little bit of clean time and being welcomed and fitting in and the sense of relief just knocks the crap out of that depression and you get on the pink cloud. Ride that baby as long as you can because it doesn't last forever and then you have to get down to work.

Anyway the most important thing you highlighted was We can't do it alone. and the only thing you should worry about is getting yourself to that first meeting.

Yeah the 90 meetings thing is a commitment for sure, the good news is no one is going to keep track for you. If day 45 is usually the issue, you could always try going to more meetings then or just whenever you have a craving.

Yes, "they" in 12 step programs say alcoholism and addiction is a disease. They will tell you that you are permanently broken in these meetings, and that you can never trust yourself. One thing to just remain aware of and cautious of, I'm not sure that I would call AA a cult, but not many AA goers openly disagree with AA doctrine. (The DSMV may disagree with AA doctrine though, LOL). I also want to warn you, that relationships with AA people will go right out the door the second you relapse or even just stop going to their meetings. Again, not saying it's "bad" since it did work for me and honestly radically changed my life for the better, but I wish I knew these things when I started.

The DSM 5 calls addiction a disorder.
http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/Substa...ct%20Sheet.pdf

Of course just like mental illness it is a very complicated issue. In my case it is highly genetic just as my depression is and I consider it a disease. Depression can have many causes and still fit the definition in the DSM. Is an addictive personality a disease? Its complicated. The disease concept is embraced my more than just AA. It is pretty widely accepted. Does it really matter how the donkey got in the ditch or how are we going to get him out.

I look at it this way. I am not to blame or am not at fault for my addictions and depression but I am responsible. In my view there is a big difference between blame and responsibility in these matters. I am responsible to do something about it.

The psychiatric community explains away 12 step programs as talk therapy because they don't know how to deal with the spiritual aspect of the philosophy. They sure do recommend people go to them though as well as the courts. Because they are proven to work.

You could very well call AA a cult as in it has its own language and culture. The same could be said for golf, or psychology or physics. The key is to focus on the philosophy as laid out in the 12 steps, in the 12 traditions, in the 12 x 12, and in the big book. That is the program. All the opinions from members is take what you like and leave the rest. And you are free to choose if you agree with the philosophy or not or if you can fit it into your belief system. People voluntarily choose to go to meetings and choose whether the philosophy can work for them. No one forces you what to believe. You can define a higher power any way you like or even use the group as your higher power as many do. It is a program of attraction not promotion. AA as an organization does not promote itself. You will never hear an ad for AA. It attracts other members by word of mouth and people sharing their own experience as we are doing here. The whole court ordered thing violates the traditions in my opinion and I don't know how that ever got started.

I am not one that thinks that 12 step programs are the only way. It is a philosophy of commonly held principles, shared by many other philosophies btw, that has a very long track record of working. Some might say I was brainwashed by AA. That is BS. I am a very independent, free thinking, free willed individual and I often don't agree with aspects of AA. I have made them fit my beliefs and figured out a way for it to work for me.

In one sense it says you are cured since the mental obsession is removed.
On the other hand it says you are never cured because the mental obsession can return. The vast majority of relapses result in the person starting where they left off and it getting worse. This is not always true. Its not black and white it is about whether it can work for you.

And if members ostracize you for relapsing or not going to meetings or continuing to drink they are not following the tenants of the philosophy. It does happen though.

The philosophy says to help the addict who is still suffering. To show tolerance and non judgement. Who knows better than us why an addict would continue to use. The whole idea is to help those who relapse get back on the right track not to ostracize them. People with experience in the program understand this and will visit you in your home **** faced drunk if you will let them in. They will go to jails and bars or skid row to try to help someone who wants out. That is the philosophy and it is unfortunate some don't follow it.

I absolutely reject that addiction is a disease and want to point out that so does most everyone not in AA as far as I have seen. It does matter how the donkey got in the ditch, I think the donkey needs to know that they got themselves in there, and not that a "disease" got them there. Here's an article by Dr. Stanton Peele (who helped write the DSMV section on alcoholism): Stanton Peele: AA is Ruining the World

Cult or not, the reality is AA members are told at every meeting they are suffering from a disease, and not just a disease, a progressive incurable disease that they have no control over. You will be told daily you have no self control over substances. That only a higher power can remove your cravings. When you get sober it is not personal empowerment at work, you will be told it's the work of God. Then you'll be reminded again, if you go back out and drink you will not be able to control yourself at all, and you will quickly drink to your death. You'll be strongly discouraged from reading anything that says otherwise, saying anything to the contrary, i.e. if you don't buy in that you are completely powerless over booze and drugs you cant even do step one of the program.

The reality is addiction is a thing, but complete lack of will power and self control is a lie. It's a lie that medicine doesn't believe in, that psychiatry doesn't believe in... that basically no one except for AA members believe in. And if you got to AA they won't tell you that, they will pretend like this is accepted fact. I just happen to believe it can be damaging to tell a person they have no self control repeatedly. Thoughts are powerful. As this article shows, addiction and alcoholism can and does resolve on its own. I believe that addiction in most prevalent in people who are depressed, and people try to avoid their woes by escaping into a lot of things, drugs and alcohol being a very obvious thing to turn to for escape.

I can't totally disagree with you because in the case of my Dad, who was a hard core alcoholic his whole life into his forties, got sober after my family did an intervention with a counselor. He has never been to therapy and has never been to an AA meeting. As far as I can tell he did it under his own will power. I don''t understand it but that is his story. Now whether some unknown not understandable force in the universe intervened at that moment I have no idea. He doesn't really talk about it. He has been sober over twenty years. Whether he could take up drinking today and drink moderately, I highly doubt it.

I have primarily my experience to draw on. You will never convince me that my alcoholism/addiction doesn't have a genetic/biological component to some degree. I tried for years to quit under all the will power I could muster to no avail. It didn't work. That is why I went to AA. It worked.

The vast majority of people don't just up and decide willy nilly that I will join AA today. They only do it after much suffering and many attempts to beat it on their own. To them and me its the last house on the block so to speak. We have some hope that there is something out there that will work so we go. It has been proven to work for many decades for many people. In my experience most of the psychiatric community will encourage you to go.

I am not one who believes AA is the only way. Or that it is impossible for someone to return to moderate use. (rare case in my view). The universe and life is way to vast and complex to be so narrow minded.

Addiction is a "thing" is not much of a definition. There is a lot of controversy over the DSM 5 and its reliance on symptom based DX's. (michanne will be happy to hear me say that). It does however call addiction a disorder. It is still symptom based and not evidence based.

The NIMH Withdraws Support for DSM-5 | Psychology Today

To say that the disease concept is only embraced by AA and that the medical community has rejected it is totally not true. Here is what NIH has to say about it. Based on scientific evidence.
The Science of Addiction: Drugs, Brains, and Behavior
https://science.education.nih.gov/su...de/essence.htm

Here is from Harvard
How addiction hijacks the brain - Harvard Health Publications
Here is the Mayo Clinic Definition.
Alcoholism Definition - Diseases and Conditions - Mayo Clinic
John Hopkins calls it a brain disorder.
Substance Abuse/Chemical Dependency | Johns Hopkins Medicine Health Library
So I am pointing to 4 very reputable institutions that are calling it a disease or brain disorder.

Here is UofM's areas of research. Univ of Michigan is a very reputable medical center.
Major Research Themes at the U-M Addiction Research Center
Here is from Stanford who is probably more in line with your view.
Neuroscience of need - Understanding the addicted mind - 2012 SPRING - Stanford Medicine Magazine - Stanford University School of Medicine
So to insinuate that the medical and psychiatric community has totally rejected the disease concept is just false.

You are pointing to one blog by a guy. Of course it is a very complicated issue, and not all people who abuse alcohol or drugs are addicts. AA was originally designed for very hard core alcoholics who had no hope of ever getting better. Now there are all kinds of people who go including very young people who could probably quit easily without AA.

The reason politicians and the criminal justice system look to 12 step programs is because they work. It was never AA's intent for politicians and courts to look to them for solutions. It is based on attraction and one alcoholic helping another. Anyone can choose whatever form of treatment works for them.

It's a proven method of treatment. It is that simple. to say that it is harming society is ludicrous. Do you do your own dental work? Of course not. We all need help in many areas of our life. To say that one should rely totally on their own will power and resources is crazy. It takes a tribe.

In my view politicians, the criminal justice system, the medical community, and the psychiatric community has absolutely no business promoting or advocating 12 step programs. Most treatment centers have sure done it. The principle of anonymity is a huge part of the philosophy. AA as an organization does not promote itself, advertise, or advocate its philosophy. Members do all kinds of things. When 12 step programs became all the rage in Hollywood you would see all kinds of stars advocating. Because of their high profile and the fact they were on TV violated the traditions and they pretty much quit doing it. Members if they stick with the step and traditions should only share their experience strength and hope with others and not be forcing any beliefs on anyone. This is what worked for me......

If anything society has intruded on AA and not the other way around. It is meant for people who voluntarily choose to go.

Maybe I am violating the traditions myself by listing them here.

My point is AA seeks to be anonymous and function within itself and its members, who voluntarily choose to join and adopt the philosophy. It is not forcing its philosophy on society, quite the opposite. It may bring a meeting into a jail but people are supposed to be free to attend the meeting or not. They have been going to jails and prisons for decades. If the jailer forces someone to go that goes against AA philosophy but there is not much they can do about it.

I think this is precisely why people are so determined to call it a disease vs. a psychological disorder, to shift the blame away from themselves and onto something else. Before you hate me though, hear me out. I come from a lineage of depressed alcoholics, and I have also had those issues, depression, addiction. I can, very easily, blame my parents for my defects. I am depressed because it is genetic and my parents abused me, I am an addict because I inherited a disease, I started using drugs because my parents abused me. This absolves me from the guilt and shame of the effects of my actions on myself and others. But... the negatives of having this belief are enormous, because it is a lie.

The second you tell yourself this you actually are powerless, and you have nothing to work on either, because you have an "incurable" disease. You become mired in your problem, which is inescapable because it's out of your control. It extends beyond alcoholism, it is actually a life style, a very human one that everyone does, where we literally are addicted to assigning blame for every action or fault. I'm not saying if you have a drug or alcoholism problem to try to use moderation, no, if you are struggling then stop! When I said alcoholism is a "thing" that was just to save time. I'm not going to argue that using substances is habit forming, and that physical and psychological addictions develop. They certainly do and are real! But I do not believe we are as helpless as we like to think we are. The fact is, one day I had enough and I went to an AA meeting, and I don't believe God saved me and damned my closest friend (who is now dead of this disease). We have power over our thoughts, not vice-a-versa. Utilizing that power may be very difficult though, I believe it is a life long endeavor everyone should make. I don't think it's easy, I don't think it's overnight, but I think we all have the capability to change ourselves and our thoughts.

AA actually helped me reach this conclusion ironically. Somewhere along the line doing step 4, finding my fault in absolutely everything, everything but my addictions and self harm! Somewhere where I was finding my blame in my resentments against my abusers maybe... where I realized, hey if I'm to blame for holding a resentment against someone who abused me as a child, how am I not to blame for that relapse last week where I sniffed an 8 ball got a DUI and who knows what else.

I am certainly not going to hate you......we are just debating. I totally respect your experience.

I agree with you to a very large extent. Playing the victim role will get you no where. Blaming this or that and absolving yourself of responsibility will only keep you mired in the muck. It is true there is a culture of victimization. People may come into AA with that attitude but that is not really what it is about. There is a big sign on the wall that says "I am responsible"

I agree with you that it does matter how the donkey got in the ditch. I am one that will analyze that to death. There are reasons though. Our parents and families have huge influences on us as we develop. Genetics and biology do play a role. It is proven that victims of abuse experience changes in their brain. A baby separated from its mother at birth forever and goes into an uncaring foster home has huge changes in their brain. It is true for the boy from russia my sister adopted. Attachment syndrome.

I don't blame my parents. they did the best they could with what tools they had. Can't we agree there are definite reasons for things being the way they are without playing the blame game.

That is just how I chose to deal with it. I am not to blame for or at fault for my addictions and depression, there are a lot of complex reasons that explain them, but I am totally responsible for my actions past and present and for my treatment and recovery.

I learned when doing my fourth step that self shame played a huge role in my addiction. the more ashamed of myself I was the more I used. Shame was very destructive to me. So I chose to take blame and fault totally out of the equation both on myself and everything else. I chose to rationally look at the reasons I was the way I was and not judge them and to learn how to forgive others and myself. Forgiveness of myself and others played a huge role in my 4th and 5th steps and in my recovery.

That is just how i viewed it and what worked for me. I can totally understand how you may view it a little differently and don't want to get caught up in the victim role. Whatever works for you.

I think we would both agree that we should share with others how playing that victim role and blame game got us no where.

When I joined AA in 95 treatment centers were fairly new. The old timers in AA hated us newcomers fresh out of treatment coming in and blaming our parents and talking about dysfunctional families and all our new fangled theories. Thats when an old timer told me..."It don't matter how the donkey got in the ditch, what matters is how are you gonna get him out." I hated that. To me it really mattered. I was just starting and had to work through all that stuff.

Or what about soldiers who come back from Iraq and experienced huge trauma. They may have been totally healthy when they left but they come back and have depression and turn to drugs and alcohol. Have major PTSD.

It probably is not going to do them much good to view themselves as victims but in reality they are victims of trauma. You have to say it had a huge effect on them. Should they blame themselves? Or a young girl who is brutally raped. She is a victim and not at fault. Maybe in recovering from that it is not good to view herself as a victim but I don't know how she should view herself. It has to be very difficult.

I completely agree with you that shame plays a big roll in feeding addiction. And all those things are true, studies show a correlation between genetic factors and addiction, abuse and addiction, going to war and addiction, and stress and addiction.

And, everyone plays the blame game, including me! Why am I depressed? Because, mom and dad didn't love me, because my boyfriend lied to me vs. Why am I depressed? Because some part of me is still holding onto depression. That is the interesting part, but we don't want to see that. We don't want to see ourselves holding onto the depression, that is uncomfortable, and even unfathomable by some people I suppose because it's often an unconscious process. Counter-intuitively, I also think you can get addicted to feeling depressed just as much if not more so than drugs.

Ultimately I think sobriety is a great gift and any person who exerts that level of self control should applaud themselves. It is virtuous to do something painful and scary for the benefit of you and society! I just wish people in AA would celebrate this virtue, nurture this virtue vs. the blame and the explanation of why for everything non-virtue. Too many of us get bogged down in shame and the things of the past, but really all we have is this moment and we just need to get this donkey out of the ditch. I am telling you, this world is full of donkeys in ditches, it is very sad, so if you are out of the ditch do a dance and celebrate that virtue in you. It's hard to blame from out of the ditch isn't it?... Anyways, I think you should celebrate your sobriety accomplishment, not to be a conceited prick, but because it will help you to develop and cherish the good and the virtuous more and more. I think you were the higher power over your own thoughts when you chose sobriety. My favorite line from AA is "progress not perfection." I am, so totally, a big work in progress... LOL.

We have a different view of what goes on in AA. It is not about blame in there. My very hard efforts that I under my own will and choosing did were very much celebrated by the members and by me. It takes a lot of very difficult work and I don't think anyone believes it is some higher power moving your pencil across the paper. That effort is celebrated. We probably disagree on the higher power thing. I believe there is a power in the universe that we can tap into and draw strength from. That power lies in me at my core but is bigger than me, and it also lies in everyone and is everywhere. There is huge power in a bunch of people working toward the same goal. Even though it required huge effort on my part individually it was a group effort, and some power that exists that I don't understand. I couldn't do it alone is my main point. I am not religious. Many in AA are not. Many prefer Buddhist philosophy or native american belief....and all kinds.

I totally agree we have to get past how the donkey got in the ditch and the blame game. That is what the steps are designed to do. And we are supposed to get out of ourselves and share our success and celebrate it. I totally agree. I try very hard to stay out of the blame game but I often feel like a victim of depression. It is not going to stop me from looking rationally non judgmentally at reasons for things being how they are. That is just how I am.

I am out of the ditch with my addictions and I am truly grateful. I really don't think about it much. Depression is a whole other story. I have suffered from very severe depression my whole life and have thrown the whole book at it as far as treatment. I have worked very hard yet I still get very long term deep suicidal depression. I don't think I can agree with some of your statements on depression. The causes are very complex and varied. I have worked much harder on treating my depression than I did on sobriety and haven't got near the results. I am not sure I want to have that debate here. I argue enough about it in the psyche meds and depression section.