[hope_alive1]

Hello all,

Would appreciate your advice and input:

Background:

- 31 y/o male from a WASP-y background where accomplishment is worshiped and weakness despised, almost identical to Kay Jamison's description in her book. 3 years ago, BPII diagnosis by licensed mental health professional(although not a pdoc or md)

- my baseline is depression. Have and almost always been depressed for most of the past decade, except brief moments of hypomania where I have short bursts of superhuman energy.

- have failed out of 3 prestigious colleges(top 10). Hypomanic surge of energy = i apply, beat other applicants and get in, sign up for classes, do great for 1st week, 2nd week, and then crash into a depression(for no major reason) in the 3rd week and just stop attending classes. Transcript littered with F and W. Apply to another prestigious school for 'fresh start'. Same scenario plays over. Again. and Again.

- have been fired from every single job I've had, mostly due to not showing up and/or tardiness. Same story: apply for super-competitice job, do an amazinng performance during interview process, beat out other applicants who are more qualified than me, get excellent performance feedback for 1st few months and also get rapid promotions......then the inevitable crash happens and I just stop showing up for work..start calling out sick and coming up with credible(or so I thought) excuses as to why I couldn't make to yet another mandatory meeting. I float by on the strength of my hypomanic performances for a while, but you can only do that for so long before you get the axe.

- extremely traumatic emotional experience when i was 19; not sure if that's what triggered my illness, but had relatively normal life before that.

This is where I'm at currently:

- haven't showered or brushed my teeth in 14 days and counting

- literally stay in bed 24/7, except to get up to take care of urgent matters (not paying rent = eviction).

- no motivation whatsoever to do anything. I eat(unhealthy fastfood), watch porn(copious amounts), watch movies, listen to music, sleep. Rinse, repeat. 24/7. Looks like I'm self-medicating with junk food, porn and using music and movies to escape into another world that isn't my reality.

- bathroom only 2 steps away, but don't go out of my room due to mixture of agrophobia and depression. Instead, i urinate in empty bottles. have accumulated 60 bottles of varying size in my room for the past 3 to 4 months. I do use the bathroom for #2

- living in squalor: my apartment = piles and piles of food, clothes, books, strewn and scattered all over the place. Stinking rotting odor. Landlord came in when I was out and remarked: "this isn't fit for an animal, let alone a human"

- complete self-imposed(or bipolar imposed) social isolation: have missed weddings and funerals that were a MUST-ATTEND. makeup excuses(sometimes credible, sometimes laughable) when family and friends invite me

It's clear that I'm in a deep depressive episode, but my concern is that it's something more than BPII. I've read many accounts of BPII and most do not present with my symptoms..... like 60 urine filled bottles in room.

What leads me to believe it's more than BPII:

-constant obsessive intrusive thoughts that i have zero control of. Thoughts range from inappropriately sexual to the blasphemous to self-flagellating. In order to 'banish' the thoughts, I often resort to shaking my head, blinking, and/or cursing(under my breath but sometimes loudly). Most times nobody notices, sometimes I get caught and people give me that "here comes a crazy person" look.

- Spend alot of time daydreaming, but it isn't ur typical daydreaming, this is a full-blown escape into another world where I'm invariably a hero. I concoct up fantastic scenarios and enjoy living in it as opposed to my miserable reality. maladaptive daydreaming is what its called i think.

- excessive paranoia(clinical definition of the word), which sometimes becomes justified(what I was fearing happens), leading to even more paranoia....horrible cycle. constantly living in dread, doom, and gloom.


No hallucination and no hearing voices though.

I'm concerned that it might be psychotic depression or some type of schizo disorder and would greatly appreciate your input and advice . I'm not asking for a diagnosis, just your input on what I might be suffering from.

I don't want to take meds for genuine fact-based reasons I'd rather not go into, so would also appreciate any med-free therapy experience that you might have benifted from, like light therapy, exercise, diet, mediation. What worked? What didn't? Remission?

Other: i don't smoke, drink, or do drugs of anykind including meds. Been through a battery of physical test and labwork including MRI, everything is normal.

Thank you.

[Victoria'smom]

The school/work situation I could have wrote. Nothing you have said is outside of BP depression.Would you be okay with a cleaning crew coming in? Can anyone help bring you full spectrum lights? Have someone call around to find you a therapist that is willing to do phone consultations until you are well enough to go in. You have to first get yourself to the bathroom. Every time you're in there force yourself not to leave before showering and brushing your teeth. Once your able to do that regularly then you can add something else until you've pulled yourself up enough to get more indepth help. Others here can help with diet but it doesn't sound like your getting yourself to the store for food.

[Nessa213]

To me, what you describe sounds like an extremely intense depression, but I have no medical background to speak of so someone else might be able to tell you better.

I think you have to take baby steps, at whatever pace you feel comfortable with. The first step would be using the bathroom instead of the bottles and if you can manage that regularly for a few days, stay for a shower. It's never easy to pull yourself out of depression, and it takes SO much more work than people give it credit for.

In my experience if I can just take baby steps (my silly mantra that I use is "keep moving forward") they all add up and you will be so much happier in the end. NO situation is ever hopeless. I know it can seem that way, but it never is. Sometimes its painful and it takes untold amounts of effort just to brush your teeth, but you just have to keep moving forward... at your own pace.

[hope_alive1]

Thanks Miguel'smom. I've been in therapy(on and off) for a year now, it helps, helps a lot. We've covered a lot of ground. I just can't put the lessons i've learned from therapy into practice.

Food: I go and stock up on unhealthy junk food or unhealthy fast food. That's been my diet for the past decade and I wouldn't be surprised if it had alot to do with my mental health woes. I changed my diet radically once last year cooking with natural fresh ingredients and eating veggies and fruit and I was, for the first time in a very long time, grounded, calm, purposeful. But just like any other endeavor I undertake, i lost steam, had no discipline/willpower to fall back on, and resorted back to cheap and unhealthy junk food when my next depressive episode hit.

I am convinced that I will see great improvement and mental clarity and stability if I am able to continuously and constantly eat healthily....but thats easier said than done.

Another thing I've noticed: slight to mild deterioration in my memory and overall cognition. I find myself losing track of thoughts, stopping mid-sentence during conversation searching for a word but can't find it. forgetting things little bit more, forgetting names, being more absent-minded and lost in my thoughts.......and although i hate it to admit it, it's noticeable. On more than one occasion at work, I've been told: "Are you ok?" and "Are you having issues?"

I've been 'caught' smiling to myself and talking to myself when I was in the middle of one of the daydreams i talked about above.

even my writing has deteriorated from award-winning prose to the jumbled mess i'm now typing. So yeah, this illness has messed me up pretty good in almost every facet of life.

I have to start the long hard slog of getting better and I remain optimistic and hopeful even in the midst of this terrible depression.

the key is finding the energy and discipline to do it and, unfortunately, I cannot sustain either(energy/discipline) for prolonged periods of time. Like a shooting star, I burn brightly and then fade away into that dark night. Exercise and eat healthily for day 1, day 2, genuine physical and mental progress ....day 3 comes and i just can't summon up the will to do what obviously worked on day 1 and day 2. It's a simple formula: Exercise, get fresh air, eat specific healthy foods, reach out to fam/friends. Simple, effective, but I "can't" do it. So i stay in bed, eat junk, and continue down the road of deterioration.

Thoughts?

[hope_alive1]

Thanks Nessa. In all honesty, I haven't fought hard enough to pull myself out of this depression. I know that if I take those baby steps, i will definitely feel and be better......... but it's summoning up the will to take that first step and then second step and then 3rd step that's so daunting. I have almost ZERO willpower and ZERO motivation. I'm operating on the most primitive of instincts: eating, sleeping, watching unhealthy stuff. How did I regress this low? unshaven, unkempt, almost non-existent personal hygiene(i do wash up after using bathroom, thankfully)

[jewel2560]

Originally Posted by hope_alive1

Hello all,

Would appreciate your advice and input:

Background:

- 31 y/o male from a WASP-y background where accomplishment is worshiped and weakness despised, almost identical to Kay Jamison's description in her book. 3 years ago, BPII diagnosis by licensed mental health professional(although not a pdoc or md)

- my baseline is depression. Have and almost always been depressed for most of the past decade, except brief moments of hypomania where I have short bursts of superhuman energy.

- have failed out of 3 prestigious colleges(top 10). Hypomanic surge of energy = i apply, beat other applicants and get in, sign up for classes, do great for 1st week, 2nd week, and then crash into a depression(for no major reason) in the 3rd week and just stop attending classes. Transcript littered with F and W. Apply to another prestigious school for 'fresh start'. Same scenario plays over. Again. and Again.

- have been fired from every single job I've had, mostly due to not showing up and/or tardiness. Same story: apply for super-competitice job, do an amazinng performance during interview process, beat out other applicants who are more qualified than me, get excellent performance feedback for 1st few months and also get rapid promotions......then the inevitable crash happens and I just stop showing up for work..start calling out sick and coming up with credible(or so I thought) excuses as to why I couldn't make to yet another mandatory meeting. I float by on the strength of my hypomanic performances for a while, but you can only do that for so long before you get the axe.

- extremely traumatic emotional experience when i was 19; not sure if that's what triggered my illness, but had relatively normal life before that.

This is where I'm at currently:

- haven't showered or brushed my teeth in 14 days and counting

- literally stay in bed 24/7, except to get up to take care of urgent matters (not paying rent = eviction).

- no motivation whatsoever to do anything. I eat(unhealthy fastfood), watch porn(copious amounts), watch movies, listen to music, sleep. Rinse, repeat. 24/7. Looks like I'm self-medicating with junk food, porn and using music and movies to escape into another world that isn't my reality.

- bathroom only 2 steps away, but don't go out of my room due to mixture of agrophobia and depression. Instead, i urinate in empty bottles. have accumulated 60 bottles of varying size in my room for the past 3 to 4 months. I do use the bathroom for #2

- living in squalor: my apartment = piles and piles of food, clothes, books, strewn and scattered all over the place. Stinking rotting odor. Landlord came in when I was out and remarked: "this isn't fit for an animal, let alone a human"

- complete self-imposed(or bipolar imposed) social isolation: have missed weddings and funerals that were a MUST-ATTEND. makeup excuses(sometimes credible, sometimes laughable) when family and friends invite me

It's clear that I'm in a deep depressive episode, but my concern is that it's something more than BPII. I've read many accounts of BPII and most do not present with my symptoms..... like 60 urine filled bottles in room.

What leads me to believe it's more than BPII:

-constant obsessive intrusive thoughts that i have zero control of. Thoughts range from inappropriately sexual to the blasphemous to self-flagellating. In order to 'banish' the thoughts, I often resort to shaking my head, blinking, and/or cursing(under my breath but sometimes loudly). Most times nobody notices, sometimes I get caught and people give me that "here comes a crazy person" look.

- Spend alot of time daydreaming, but it isn't ur typical daydreaming, this is a full-blown escape into another world where I'm invariably a hero. I concoct up fantastic scenarios and enjoy living in it as opposed to my miserable reality. maladaptive daydreaming is what its called i think.

- excessive paranoia(clinical definition of the word), which sometimes becomes justified(what I was fearing happens), leading to even more paranoia....horrible cycle. constantly living in dread, doom, and gloom.


No hallucination and no hearing voices though.

I'm concerned that it might be psychotic depression or some type of schizo disorder and would greatly appreciate your input and advice . I'm not asking for a diagnosis, just your input on what I might be suffering from.

I don't want to take meds for genuine fact-based reasons I'd rather not go into, so would also appreciate any med-free therapy experience that you might have benifted from, like light therapy, exercise, diet, mediation. What worked? What didn't? Remission?

Other: i don't smoke, drink, or do drugs of anykind including meds. Been through a battery of physical test and labwork including MRI, everything is normal.

Thank you.

Hi, I felt I had to write to you. I'm 26, I just gave up my pursuit of college for the same reason you had to. Something always had to happen. And I came from a similar background, where not graduating in tantamount to committing some kind of crime. It is hard to live in that world and to be intelligent and still not be able to accomplish the normal things most people can. And then you have so much free time after failing that I've gotten to where you are.

But there is nothing else wrong with you. Bipolar encompasses all of these things. Severe paranoia, constant obsessive thinking, and the daydreaming for me in the past is just another form of escapism, just one I thought up instead of the wonderful or terrible writers of all of the shows I watch.

You're at the point where you are living in a bubble...I had a year like that.

There are a few non-medication things you can try. Although I urge you for yourself to maybe try them again. I've tried over 30 meds, it sucks, side effects are awful, but in the end I am better for it.

First, look at the vitamin D level. Mine was ridiculously low since I never left the house. You get it from sunlight and milk products. The lights you can buy are semi-expensive but they do help. So does taking a vitamin D supplement. After a week I had a bit more energy and was a bit less depressed.

You will be incapable of feeling better until you start eating better, having a regular sleep schedule and clean your place up. Living like that makes it worse, so have someone come help you clean it up. And for food, I get mine delivered by peapod, they run from stop and shop. So you'll be eating better but still not have to leave if you are unable.

I have found meditation can help if you are open to it. It can calm my mind if I really do focus. I usually put a soothing sound on behind me, such as crashing waves, it is white noise so I can truly put myself behind it.

Also therapy has helped so much, you might try looking for someone who does behavioral therapy to help.

Lastly, there is no such thing as remission unfortunately, just better days and worse days, please try to feel better

[hope_alive1]

Thanks jewel, that was excellent and informative advice, especially the Vitamin D check. It reminds of something I read about about Vitamin B deficiency and the mental havoc it can cause. I'll get both checked out.

As intelligent as you are, why are you not in the hands of a licensed psychiatrist?
You describe a very severe form of depression without hallucinations but strong
paranoia and dreadful fear that drives your behavior.

Bipolar illness can get worse without treatment. The time for you to see a psychiatrist is now, before you have permanent, irreparable damage to brain cells.

Please do go in and get medicated to restore the chemical imbalance that is part of
bipolar illness; then you may see clearly how to correct the other aspects of your life that are very troublesome at this time.

About weakness being despised, etc.: it's perfectly all right to compete and it's also
perfectly acceptable not to compete if one chooses that. I am supposing that you
got your military training which may be responsible for the view you have. Maybe you need to have some therapy in changing your understanding of life outside the military. And maybe the view that weakness is to be despised is necessary when one is putting his life on the line everytime he goes into battle.

Life outside the military just isn't like that, so you need some adjustments in your life if you're going to choose to live in society.

Please get the help you desperately need.

[Darth Bane]

I don't want to take meds for genuine fact-based reasons I'd rather not go into, so would also appreciate any med-free therapy experience that you might have benifted from, like light therapy, exercise, diet, mediation.

I can relate to you. my first depression was when i was 16. those two years look really bad on my resume.then i completed my computer engineering with rank 2 in my class. i took admission into second best college in my country for masters in computer science. completed first year which i guess you know is toughest but in second year there was depression so i couldn't finish it. and now i am trying for MBA, just appeared for interview for 11th best b school in my country,day after tomorrow i have interview for 15th best b school. i am 26 so i have few years to spare.

i agree my bipolar isn't like yours it is 3 year depression followed by 5 years of mania. but honestly i don't know why aren't you trying meds. if you are as talented as you are saying i bet your brain is telling you that something is wrong with it. i think you can feel it. i have faced severe anxiety,locked myself in room,hated baths but then i ignored my huge ego i met pdoc. it was extremely hard for me. with my friend asking me i saw you in hospital blah blah blah. but i knew something was wrong and i took meds pdocs gave.

i know why you are against meds. i am currently not on any meds but i took meds to get stabilized. to recover from low and once i found that normal level, i am keeping it by taking at least 8 hours sleep,eating healthy,doing exercise. i think you should take lithium for at least 6 months. i know brain is the most precious thing in universe for us. i don't believe in god/religion/soul the only thing i believe in is my brain. there is no mind body problem for me its just body and i am against any drug that can alter my brain chemistry. trust is sound and color of death but i think we can trust modern medications little bit ,its not Chinese herbs or horn of unicorn i think months of meds wont hurt you.

these little steps that's how i do it too. do something however small it is. if you want to win war you need to win battles. doing brush daily its the start. and you keep on throwing these past achievement "failed out of 3 prestigious colleges(top 10)" they never matter. i was just few weeks ago answering question in b school interview. that dumb **** asked me question if i can complete my masters this time because our coursework is very tough,stressful. when i told him i want to do MBA in finance he asked me do i know statistics . these question are quiet insulting for me. if it was me two years ago sitting there i would have just told that professor "i dont really want admission in your stupid 11th rank college and you are asking me about tough coursework?" and i would have walked out. but you know bad times. its not my time yet. we have to prove ourselves every 6 months. it is said achieving success is easy keeping it is difficult. if you think getting into MIT is tough try getting out. take care.

[hope_alive1]

Darth,

Thanks and can you tell me a little bit more about your daily regimen for staying stable and healthy? What do you do exactly?

genetic,

Thanks for the advice, was very much needed given my capacity to delude myself and believe in my ego. Can you elaborate on this part: " before you have permanent, irreparable damage to brain cells" ? Is it conclusive that bipolarII causes permanent damage to brain cells/neurons/gray matter?

[Darth Bane]

hope_alive1 i think i was bit rude in last post. after 4 weeks of mania now for 3 weeks i am in mixed state. it is annoying and i am seriously considering starting lithium. as soon as i could figure out how to minimize damage to my kidneys.

my daily regimen- i sleep for 9-10 hours- i am not yet completely out of my depression. i keep regular schedule for sleep. i do bit running just 1 km but i do it almost daily or whenever i am feeling down. i eat healthy- spend lot of money for that. and thats it. my depression lasts for 3 years and this is third year so i am just waiting for it to get over and next 5 years of hypomania.

i have to confess my bipolar is getting worse with age. these cycles are like 2 months of hypomania followed by 2 months depression. but 2 years ago it was all depression. i used meds for 6 months to get over that. i had lost lot of weight,afterwards due to meds i gained weight, again after i stopped meds i lost few kilos. but now i am in nice healthy condition.

you mentioned some genuine reasons for not taking meds. but i think you are not in good condition. if you are so afraid to take meds you can have yourself admitted. i know its not easy but even i have accepted i have bipolar and its getting worse with age and i am starting lithium just to make myself productive.

[hope_alive1]

Darth,

No, you weren't rude. And i need all the honesty I can get. I'm very good at lying to myself and to others, so blunt talk is very refreshing and helpful.

Being admitted..scary thought, but if things don't get better, I just might have to. My main worry is, once you're hospitalised, it'll forever be on your record...following you everywhere. HIPPA privacy laws aren't that strong and you can be disqualified for many jobs if they find out you were admitted/committed for psychiatric reasons. Not fair, but it's the world we're living in. One of the last few remaining prejudices that are socially and publicly acceptable = prejudice against the mentally ill.

[avlady]

Please get help from a doctor and T. I also know that you don't want to go down that path, but it seem to be that desprate, it may save your life at this point. The vitamin D is very important i also had a low level and when I find I'm forgetting them in the mornings, i realize i need to take them. Getting sun is important too, as that is where vitamin D comes from.Your low motivation could also be vitamin B12 defieiency , my son has to get vit b shots. Well I hope yu've read everyone's posts here because there is a lot of good advice for you right here, take care and have a joyful Easter.

[Victoria'smom]

You may not be admitted but you have to be honest with your T all the time. Are you against short term medication? Enough to pull you out and get things back on track. That way you can have the ability to learn the skills to be med free. If you want to stay in your home you have to get help cleaning it up. Maid services, can help and a lot of them can be short term. You said your landlord already came in and saw the state of your home , eviction is a real possibility.

I'm responding to your request,Hopealive1,

Evidence now indicates that foods play a far more important role in wide mood swings than was originally thought. Wheat, barley, rye, and possibly oats are in that category. It's anything with gluten in it which contains exorphins that act on the
opiate centers of the brain. The health hazards of that are too numerous to mention here.

The type diet you have now is not helping. With the new information about effects of wheat, it is possible to even develop dementia in a few documented cases, and schizophrenia responds positively to removing wheat in several cases. One woman
at Duke University hospital who had been schizophrenic for years was documented as having recovered completely with the removal of wheat from her diet.

Too often, untreated bipolar patients will try to self-medicate with alcohol, narcotics, or other drugs. Alcohol is a depressant and can make bipolar illness worse. Narcotics kill brain cells, period. Both are capable of causing permanent
brain damage. No research is available to my knowledge on the effects of marijuana,
but some will tell you that its ingredients are much more concentrated now and
that makes it more difficult to recover because withdrawal is difficult.

That's enough to hopefully convince you to get the psychotropic medications you need to establish a much clearer and content feeling tone and mental clarity.

Succinctly, my answer is yes, in my view, and from what I've understood from documents pertaining to bipolar illness, brain damage can occur from faulty efforts to self-medicate (and other conditions).

[Darth Bane]

once you're hospitalised, it'll forever be on your record

yes you are right. discrimination still exist. even if there are laws against it. but you could always use private hospitals and cash for everything. they wont ask you any questions.

if you dont want hospitalization there is always lithium. and you can simply tell your pdoc which meds you want. i plan to do that. do it step by step. check on internet your nearest pdoc. next step take appointment. if possible on evening so you wont miss it because you were asleep. next step clean yourself and meet your pdoc and ask him for meds imediately. tell him how hard it is for you to make this trip again. I remember on friday i used to think i will go this monday. then on monday i would think think there is whole week remaining. on tuesday you really dont want to go. on wednesday you take bath but sadly it is 5 pm till you clean yourself. on thursday you are really tired of thinking about pdoc. again comes friday. again you promise yourself surely you will go next week. i have in reality spent few weeks like this until finally i succeeded in reaching hospital and meeting pdoc. even second appointment was difficult to keep. but you have no choice. time flies and we are not getting stronger just sitting in front of our lappy.

you can also use mirror to look at yourself. when we are depressed we really dont want to look at ourselves. you can get motivated if you just looked yourself in the mirror. and i think you still care what others think about you. thats stupid. dont care about others you have enough problems,worries as it is. dont care about what they will think when you get admitted in hospital. i know you should have many friends working in prestigious companies. but stop caring/thinking about them and think about only yourself. you need to do this. only job you will miss because of this will be of army officer. there are enough opportunities left if you think about it. it is like addict situation, we really cant help you until you help yourself. first step should come from you. just like those addict who cant help themselves get admitted into rehab like that we have hospitals. so decide !!!