[hamster-bamster]

I woke up with this thought and it does not leave my mind. I have checked for signs of mania/impulsivity - nope, none.

All day long I have been thinking about it and nothing else.

My son was sent away when he was 7. Julia stayed with me until 9, Maria, until 11. Right now I am spending money on T sessions during which I compose letters to my children - wish me luck. And I want to raise someone in a normal fashion, in the same household with me, without assistance from T. Pregnancy to college. I think I can.

Things that are needed:

-- a father who is good father material and has money to hire a nanny etc. - I think in Silicon Valley that has plenty of people with money in two years I can find eligibile candidates
-- me off meds and functioning well which should first be tried, like a "dry run". And I cannot be off all meds - I have to somehow sleep so whatever is less risky, a bit of Elavil or a bit of marijuana, will have to be continued, but off everything else.
--a contract for Robert (my family lawyer) to draw up that would assure me financial support as the child grows but without giving up custody rights - I already gave up custody rights and do not want to go that route again. With a good contract, marriage is optional.
-- me off IUD

My maternal cousin gave birth for the first time at almost 45. According to her, without fertility treatments. A single birth, consistent with the claim that it was without fertility treatments (fertility treatments-->multiples). I have always been super fertile - three children from instant conceptions plus one abortion despite the use of a spermicide. My mother was super fertile and had a really really hard time killing the function of her ovaries when the time came for that (she was over 50) due to breast cancer. Her ovaries just wanted to keep going. So with that sort of history/family history, I am thinking that I can still be capable of conception.

I have never had any trouble with pregnancy or postpartum -- no postpartum depression no nothing. I enjoyed everything.

I understand that would be signing up for 20 years of hard work, but I will end up with a meaningful r/s.

Thoughts? What about making this would be child an only child? I was an only child and hated that.

And to work for so long towards the perfect cocktail of drugs just to ditch it!

[hamster-bamster]

I guess it is a little funny but honestly I have spent the whole day thinking about it.

[~Christina]

Wow .. yeah thats a lot of thinking you have been doing today..

Of course anything is possible .. The only thing I would say you might want to look closer into is the following...

~ Since for the time being you are/have been estranged from all 3 of your children... Could you be thinking about having another child that NOONE can keep you from raising as you want.
~You mentioned finding a Man and having some sort of contract drawn up to assure financial support??? That's all fine and good but there is no way to guarantee support from anyone... I know people rich and poor and trust me they are not always receiving child support for a variety of reasons.
~ You said it would be 20 years of hard work but you would end up with a meaningful relationship ???? Just because you raise a child from infant to your adult doesn't guarantee a great relationship.. Same as your current relationships with your kids won't neccessarly mean the relationships won't improve.

Again anything is possible I'm not being a downer here ..

Just some thoughts...

[Ladyzero]

H.B. Are you serious ? Are you contemplating a baby at 42 ?
Having had 3 children you know what's involved but why start again at your age ?
Shouldn't you be thinking of grand children by now ?

What are you hoping a child now will provide ?
Having stabilised with your meds, as you say, to then ditch them. Is it fair to a child at your age, especially as your not in a stable LT relationship.
Hun, I really hope you're not serious.
Have you thought of maybe doing child minding, temporary fostering ?

How about getting a cat ? (am joking, but hey worth a thought)

I hope you will reconsider Hun, it would be a HUGE thing at your age. Please think of your motives, and pursue other avenues to channel your maternal
feelings.
There are lots of children who need caring for, and looking after, could you volunteer at a local nursery, school or creche ?

Not judging you, such a wise, kindhearted lady that you are, and I read and take your advice in many posts. This is just my p.o.v.

Please think again.

[Victoria'smom]

normal fashion
without assistance from T.

I worry about these to statements. Yes you can raise a child but without T's assistants what does that mean?

I think you really need to feel you will be raising the child on your own. Which means you may want to look into a sperm bank. You should try to save about a years income so that you can do IOP while UN-medicated and pregnant. If you do have a child please look into a large support system.

A child / parent relationship is meaningful but that doesn't last forever. As time goes on the parent child relationship changes. I have an only child financially / emotionally we can't handle more than one. This lets him “pick” his family. There is hardly a moment other than bed-time where his friends are not here. To the point that we need a large car. As for you ditching your meds hopefully you can get back on them as soon as the baby is born.

[Confusedinomicon]

I think you need to work on feelings of abandonment from your own children with you T before you think of having another child. Also focus on recovering your relationship with Julia and Maria.

It sounds like you're trying to compensate for what you weren't able to give to your children.

[Seaswept]

Hampster! Think about all of the progress you have been making with your self-care.
You have been doing great! and it will all go down the drain with a new-born.
Their needs come 1st. They won't (and shouldn't have to) have it any other way.

[purpledaisy]

Originally Posted by Ladyzero

H.B. Are you serious ? Are you contemplating a baby at 42 ?
Having had 3 children you know what's involved but why start again at your age ?
Shouldn't you be thinking of grand children by now ?

I disagree.

What's wrong with starting again if it's what she TRULY wants?

And, no, she should not be thinking about grandchildren by now. I'm 46 and mentioned to a good friend that I feel incomplete because I always thought I would have 2 or 3 kids and a stable marriage by now. She said I'm ready to be a grandma now.

Being a grandmother at my age had never crossed my mind and it really upset me. I was insulted.

If you're in the frame of mind to be a mom and someone tells you that you should be a grandmother, it's not cool.

With that being said, Hamster, I think more than a day's worth of thought should go into something like this.

On the other hand, if I was involved in a relationship that felt right, I would have another baby in a heartbeat even though I am 46.

[LiteraryLark]

I'm not experienced with motherhood, but I seriously encourage you to reconsider this.

[Moose72]

I know that pregnancy tended to destabilize me. For others they never felt better. You'd want to be followed very closely during and post partum. What meds can you nurse on etc.

You should see if your feelings about your other kids are separate from wanting another baby. Really take a few weeks or months of sorting this through. If you're as fertile as you say, this short amount if time won't matter. You could even still look up sperm banks while you're thinking.

[venusss]

You don't have to be manicky to be irrational. and manias come in unexpected forms.

Because... you sound either kinda manic... or overcompensating heavily.

Hamster... the thing here is though...... by having a new kid, the problem with your existing kids will not go away. The pain of it... will not magically disappear. It will be still there and might even get more complicated... And to bring a person into this world... you should consider them too. Not "another try, maybe it will work this time".

You should focus on repairing the relationship with existing offsprings. It will be hard, but doesn't mean it's impossible.

And as for looking for a man... I hope that "rich enough to pay a nanny" is not the crucial criterion. Because there's plenty rich assholes around.

PLus, having kids after 30 is risk. After 40? Birth defects. Health risks. All that.

[bunnifoo]

This may be what you want but it might not be what you need or a good idea. It's something you need to talk about long and hard with your therapist.

Venus is right, having another child won't be a magically fix to your relationship with your children or with the pain that you feel.

[BlueInanna]

Could be the biological clock and NORMAL female instincts, it crosses my mind fairly frequently to have another baby. Both of us with over 3 pregnancies, we're baby making machines. Plus I think about, I'm 39, almost 40 there's not much time left if I want another child.

But I think it through, and the main thing that stops me is my love for my 3 children I already have. They need my attention, support, any extra money I might make for their college. They could have babies at some soon time here, and I want to be available for them. If they have children young like I did, they are really going to need my help.

There is still time Hammie to give all this love and nurturing inside you to your girls. They still need you whether they realize it or not. And they are only a few years away from possibly making you a grandma. I also think that the girls have been through enough and would feel hurt, possibly abandoned if you had a new baby at this time.

Sorry if I'm blunt, it's a totally personal decision, but you asked for feedback. I think going back to further your degrees was an excellent idea and the extra money you would make could really help their futures, and their future babies, and you'd easily afford to travel and have some really good times.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by morethingswrong

Wow .. yeah thats a lot of thinking you have been doing today..

Of course anything is possible .. The only thing I would say you might want to look closer into is the following...

~ Since for the time being you are/have been estranged from all 3 of your children... Could you be thinking about having another child that NOONE can keep you from raising as you want. YES, but I would want father participating, just not running the show
~You mentioned finding a Man and having some sort of contract drawn up to assure financial support??? That's all fine and good but there is no way to guarantee support from anyone... I know people rich and poor and trust me they are not always receiving child support for a variety of reasons. I know, it is like with stock - past performance does not guarantee future result. But still, I would want Robert to review past tax returns.
~ You said it would be 20 years of hard work but you would end up with a meaningful relationship ???? Just because you raise a child from infant to your adult doesn't guarantee a great relationship.. Same as your current relationships with your kids won't neccessarly mean the relationships won't improve. The likelihood is far greater if there is uninterrupted residence at home with me, for one, and if there are no people maligning me, for another. Nothing is guaranteed, but the chances are greatly improved. And even if I do not end up with the best r/s, I still will have accomplished raising a child from cradle to college.

Again anything is possible I'm not being a downer here ..

Just some thoughts...

Please see above in bold, inside the quote.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Ladyzero

H.B. Are you serious ? Are you contemplating a baby at 42 ?
Having had 3 children you know what's involved but why start again at your age ?
Shouldn't you be thinking of grand children by now ?

What are you hoping a child now will provide ?
Having stabilised with your meds, as you say, to then ditch them. Is it fair to a child at your age, especially as your not in a stable LT relationship.
Hun, I really hope you're not serious.
Have you thought of maybe doing child minding, temporary fostering ?

How about getting a cat ? (am joking, but hey worth a thought)

I hope you will reconsider Hun, it would be a HUGE thing at your age. Please think of your motives, and pursue other avenues to channel your maternal
feelings.
There are lots of children who need caring for, and looking after, could you volunteer at a local nursery, school or creche ?

Not judging you, such a wise, kindhearted lady that you are, and I read and take your advice in many posts. This is just my p.o.v.

Please think again.

I already have three cats. Two are mine and one is a foster kitty. I have already talked to them about the possibility of having a baby: they said that if I continue to feed them well, they will accept a new arrival.

For me, it is very biological and every step counts, so a nursery someplace does not count. It has to come with the pain and joy of childbirth, I have to breastfeed, etc. That is why I have to be so serious about being off meds - if I get into this, I will be in it for the long haul, because I am a long term breastfeeder (I have spent 8 years out of my life nursing) and breastfeeding is not more compatible with drugs than the first trimester. So it is really serious stuff, but I cannot imagine formula feeding a baby. I know people do; my cousin did; a close gf formular fed her twins and apparently everyone was happy so I know people do it, but I, personally, absolutely have to breastfeed. I breastfed two girls at once, even - it is called tandem nursing. I am just super good at that and I would not want to shortchange this hypothetical baby just because his/her half siblings were born before their mother was dx'd so she was med free and breastfed. So if I decide to follow through with this plan and get serious about it, AND if I have LUCK with it, then we are talking about at least three years off meds.

BUT - I am already swimming for an hour on weekdays, plus biking for 100 minutes on weekdays, plus, regardless of and before this wonderful new idea I was going to add 45 minutes on the treadmill because biking and swimming are not weight-bearing and a 42-year-old woman should be thinking of osteoporosis prevention and thus engaging in regular weight-bearing exercise. If I add treadmill, I would be doing more than 3 hours of cardio a day on most days a week! It is a lot of cardio. With that amount of cardio, I will safely be free from depression and anxiety and possibly mania. Bipolar is a chemical imbalance in the brain and cardio acts directly on brain chemistry. For anxiety, I have actually tried cardio versus benzos and cardio is more effective so I am not using benzos at all anymore.

I have thought about sleep, too. Maybe the safest sleep medicine is neither marijuana nor Amitriptyline but the lowest possible dose of Seroquel. I have seen someone on this board breastfeeding on Seroquel - that gave me the idea. But this is for the p-doc to decide. I will task the p-doc with this - he is a smart guy, I will have him exercise his brain.

The most cryptic piece for me is psychosis. I have never seen anyone running a marathon to prevent psychosis. To prevent depression, sure, but not psychosis. Last time I seriously went off Geodon and Lithium (to save money - I was in Europe where my insurance did not cover drugs) I started mania with hallucinations - skycrapers were dancing on the streets . That sure was fun. But at any rate, I am bipolar, I am NOT schizoaffective - I asked good p-docs and I am not, and that means that I do not hallucinate outside manic episodes, so if I manage to prevent mania (hopefully, three hours of cardio daily plus regular sleep would suffice for that) then I would not have hallucinations.

Because psychosis is the trickiest part, and because I am not going to exercise on my trip anyway, I am for now just dropping Geodon. I will take it with me, just in case. If I start hallucinating, I will take Geodon. If I am OK, I won't.

Then, when I am back, I will get into the exercise routine and drop Prozac. I think I should be all right. I honestly think that a person on 3+ hours of cardio daily can skip her Prozac. Cardio should take care of the endorphins just fine.

And then... if all goes well... they will come the big decision, which is droppig Lithium. Lithium is very important and dropping Lithium should not be taken lightly.

Oh, and I currently do one yoga session a week - I will be adding another one on Sundays. The kind of yoga I do is Restorative and is basically anti-manic.

Plus the social rhythm therapy for bipolar - regular outings, having people over, things to do, that kind of thing.... should help.

LT r/s - I do not see how this is relevant. I am trying to solve only one problem, not two. I AM interested in eventually getting married and spending my old age with someone I love and trust... but it is not on fire. I can get married at 50 or even at 60 - why not. Since it is not on fire, why should I think about it now? I am only trying to deal with first priorities. Marriage is not a first priority. It can be safely postponed. For babymaking, I have a couple of years, so it IS on fire. So I have decoupled marriage and babymaking and for babymaking I just need a good coparenting partner - not necessarily to live with me. I lived alone with my son when he was little and everything was splendid until ex appeared on the scene and said that everything was wrong. So I have experience single parenting and back then everyone was happy. I just do not want THAT degree of single parenting when I was completely alone - I want a partcipating father.

It took me 6 months to find my current job. If I apply effort, will I find a good candidate for this position I am "advertising" in one year? I think I will. I will begin by considering my tomorrow's date in that kind of light. Except that he is heavy and obesity is highly genetic and I would want to give my baby good genes... oh, everything is so complicated!!!

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by BlueInanna

Sorry if I'm blunt, it's a totally personal decision, but you asked for feedback. I think going back to further your degrees was an excellent idea and the extra money you would make could really help their futures, and their future babies, and you'd easily afford to travel and have some really good times.

I was thinking of both at the same time - having a baby while in law school. Law school is easy - I had good grades at Stanford without studying. I think law school is the right idea now, because working in tech my age horizon is very limited, and then what? Wheras as a lawyer, one can work well into the old age. So I am thinking that it is the right choice to go into debt now but to get a good career out of it in three years.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by BlueInanna

There is still time Hammie to give all this love and nurturing inside you to your girls. They still need you whether they realize it or not.

I think that regardless of my situation with my existing children I am just not DONE having babies. When other people's babies cry, my breasts still swell as if preparing to give milk. I want a cosleeping baby. I want a baby in a sling - I always notice the new trends in slings and baby carriers. And I would buy that thingie to attach to my bike and place my baby there and go on rides, and be done with the pregnancy weight in no time flat.

[hamster-bamster]

OK, a candidate, Michael, someone from one of my prior jobs. Just sent me a chat. Has everything going for him - age, profession, very very trustworthy, with integrity, education, parents (since I cannot provide grandparents I would ideally want the father to provide local grandparents), never married, no children - a perfect candidate... except that he is too short. Way too short. For a girl, it does not matter - petite girls are ever so sexy and fragile. For boys, it does matter a lot and I would not want to risk giving a boy those kind of genes. No, will not ask Michael. Which is a shame.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

And as for looking for a man... I hope that "rich enough to pay a nanny" is not the crucial criterion. Because there's plenty rich assholes around.

PLus, having kids after 30 is risk. After 40? Birth defects. Health risks. All that.

Amnio - if the fetus has Down, then have an abortion and try again for better luck. It is just a game with probabilities - the older you are, the worse the odds, but thanks to testing, you do not have to carry unfortunate pregnancies to term - you can terminate them. I have no problem terminating a pregnancy if tests show genetic abnormalities. I will try my best to not even get attached until the amnio results come back clean and I know that I am keeping the pregnancy, and I won't tell anybody in RL (I do not get morning sickness and some such so I can hide a pregnancy).

Rich man - money is just one requirement, of many. But because I feel that whatever income stream I would eventually be making belongs to my existing three children, for the next baby I would prefer to have a father who can pay for the nanny. Otherwise I would feel that I am shortchanging my older kids - not nice.

So all day today I spent in the beading store, making necklaces. It requires patience, attention to detail, perseverence... I doubt a manic person would manage standing at a counter for a whole day making one design after another.

As far as the r/s with existing children go: we will keep working on all three of them. I think I can manage. Today I wrote to my son, and a long letter at that, so it is not that I started thinking of a new baby and dropped my son - no, I am multitasking.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Miguel'smom

normal fashion
without assistance from T.

I worry about these to statements. Yes you can raise a child but without T's assistants what does that mean?

I think you really need to feel you will be raising the child on your own. Which means you may want to look into a sperm bank.

Now, I go into T sessions and with the T we role-play my conversations with my kids and after such sesssions I write letters to my kids. Each T session costs only $60 because the T is only a trainee (but excellent - I am very lucky).

So I want parenting unmediated by T's. Where I just talk to my child directly.

Sperm bank is for ladies who are independently wealthy, I feel. I cannot afford even the procedure of fertiliazation itself, which is why I prefer good old sexual intercourse which is completely free. Plus, I do want some participation on the father's side - it is not that I am completely unwilling to compromise and just want to run the show 100% by myself. I just do not want extremes, e.g. when I do not have custody. But splitting the time between two parents, sure. I will just need to find a good man for that.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Moose72

I know that pregnancy tended to destabilize me. For others they never felt better. You'd want to be followed very closely during and post partum. What meds can you nurse on etc.

You should see if your feelings about your other kids are separate from wanting another baby. Really take a few weeks or months of sorting this through. If you're as fertile as you say, this short amount if time won't matter. You could even still look up sperm banks while you're thinking.

It will take a while. Off Geodon - 1 month. Off Prozac - 1 month. Off Lithium - 3 months (yes, that long - I will give myself that long to see if I can manage). After three months off Lithium, if I can manage, I will ask the GP or my midwife (whoever charges less) to remove the IUD. And then, they say, it takes up to a whole YEAR to regain fertilitity. It is not like spacing your children with condoms - one day you do not put on a condom and voila, a pregnancy, no, after an iud it takes a while to recover.

So I have plenty of time to check whether this is the right move and to find a father. But tonight is my first dinner without Geodon .

Moose, for meds compatible with nursing, I will ask the p-doc. Maybe a bit of Seroquel is OK.

Oh, and med compliance. I need to be med compliant for my court case. But that is OK - next week I will give blood for Lithium levels which will take care of that for at least 6 months if not 12 months, and then... crossing those bridges when... I think med compliance means taking the drugs prescribed by the p-doc. If the p-doc starts prescribing fewer drugs because I tell him that I am trying to conceive, I will still be med compliant. But at any rate, it is too early for that now.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by BlueInanna

Could be the biological clock and NORMAL female instincts, it crosses my mind fairly frequently to have another baby. Both of us with over 3 pregnancies, we're baby making machines. Plus I think about, I'm 39, almost 40 there's not much time left if I want another child.

Actually it is not the first time. In 2010, my Mirena IUD needed switching. Which was sort of like a joke because I was not sexually active, but still. The GP started advertising a new sterilization procedure which is 100% effective (yes) and is done in an outpatient setting without side effects and complications, unlike tubal ligation. "You have such beautiful children", the GP said, urging me to submit to the procedure. At that time I was severely depressed, without an AD, sleeping or lying in bed until 3-6PM (yes, PM, not a typo). I was jobless, having lost a very job because ex dictated conditions of my return which were impossible to fulfill (then p-doc wrote in her note whatever ex wanted). And the future was very very bleak. But I still despite severe depression cared enough to say "No, I want a new IUD", and the explanation I gave her was "I prefer to have no period because it is so convenient" (30% of Mirena IUD users have no period) and she said "That is true... if you do sterilization, your period will come back". So she swapped my IUD. So I preserved fertility even during the bleakest times. It has always been important to me.

And... good news. My son IS talking to me! And I will manage a 20 year old son and a baby, if only I get lucky enough to get pregnant without genetic abnormalities.

[hamster-bamster]

And, my son... not just talking to me, but being wise, mature, and forgiving. Wow. Blows me away.

[BlackPup]

What makes you think you'll find someone to donate both the sperm and the required money to fund this endeavour. I can't imagine what incentive there would be for anyone to participate in this as you have described it.

[hamster-bamster]

Already talking about the possibility of my son's visit. He is planning to use the money left by grandma for the tickets. I told him that I need ex to move his stuff out so that I can buy furniture for my second bedroom. I also told him that in Jan I will get money from ex for my car and will ask G. to help me buy a used car. When I have a clean second bedroom and a car, I can invite him.

His last message to me today: "I will not pressure you into seeing you, that is a big step ahead of where we are. Get your things in order the right way so you won't have to do it again. Good night"

See, those things are not mutually exclusive - I thought about the possibility of a pregnancy today and conversed with my son. And nobody got hurt in the process.