Nocturnal Introductions...

hey Sqrl, if you don't mind my asking, what's your dx again? And again, if you don't mind my asking, what meds does your doc have you on? And are they agreeing with you? TgrsPurr.

Don't mind at all Tgr. I'm bipolar with psychotic features, ptsd, and seem to do long cycles and rapid cycles.

Dx was five years ago after a spectacular breakdown. (why do anything halfassed right?)

I was on a variety of meds for a little more than three years but it just wasn't working for me. See, I haven't been able to work since the breakdown, and the meds came nowhere close to making a kind of difference that would mean a significant enough change to enable me to go back to "life" as I knew it. Factor in the bizarre side effects, and the accumulation of secondary meds solely to affect the side effects, and I found the cure to be as scary as my "illness." I could no longer feel from my heart, and sex became irrelevent to me.

My course of action isn't for everyone, and I refrain from recommending it. But I determined to explore all the things I could do with out meds to mitigate the worst aspects of it. At the same time, I wanted to chart it, to understand its triggers and its patterns, to become "aware" of it and to identify myself seperately from it. I figure I have that right. I still can't work, or even engage in a very active social life, but I can feel, I can think, I love sex again, and I know myself in a way I never could have had none of this ever emerged.

The meds helped me in the beginning to "get a grip" as it were. The one I still turn to in an hour of need is zyprexa. When the depression swing is too intense, I get some really loud disturbing voices that never ever shut up. Zyprexa stops 'em dead and within an hour. I take it for as many days as the voices resume, and then stop.

Interestingly too, the only time I ever felt suicidal, I was on all the meds.

I can't really fit my "story" into this space without crashing the whole site, lol. But I'm happy to talk with you in as much depth as you would like about it. I've found some things that help, but none of it's like a magic bullet.

I sure like following your posts. You're all bright and shiny inside and I always notice that in people.

Thanks so much Sqrl for being so candid with me. I appreciate that very much. wow! you impress me. I understand completely what you're saying about the meds as I had the exact same experience as you and came to the same conclusions as you. And like you, I refrain from recommending it to others, but so far, med free works best for me. Come to think of it, weren't you the one who posted about that case worker coming to your home and ranting about the benefits of meds without reading your chart? I loved that post! What was the name of it again, I'd love to go back and read it.
I am very much interested in hearing about the things that work for you, and I'd be more than happy to share mine with you too.
BTW, thanks for the compliment.....my nickname as a child was Sunny. And what is the definition of sunny....bright and shiny.
Look forward to learning more about you, you're a real sweetheart! TgrsPurr.

You are a fabulous conversationalist, Tgr.

The post you're asking about was called, "One size fits all." I've long maintained that you can't write better fiction than life itself. I'm afraid I may even have an over developed eye for the absurd at this point. And I am continually taken aback by the ineptitude of the bureaucracies charged with our care. At least as far as the welfare consumer is concerned.

Wow, you are the first bipolar off meds I've met. At least the first one who wasn't Jesus living under a bridge. I am atremble with the anticipation of learning from eachother. Way cool.

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Wow, you are the first bipolar off meds I've met. At least the first one who wasn't Jesus living under a bridge.

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You are a very witty squirrel I'm BP2 with mixed states and also take Xyprexa (low dose) for the depression/anxiety and have recently started taking Topamax as a mood stabilizer. I've wondered what I would feel like med-free but the last time I tried that...it wasn't pretty.

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Wow, you are the first bipolar off meds I've met. At least the first one who wasn't Jesus living under a bridge.

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Okay, that one got me roaring with laughter. Ain't it the truth tho'?

The bottom line, I think, is we live a controlled lifestyle. By analyzing what works and what doesn't work, what triggers and what doesn't, people we can be with and people we can't....we're able to have some limited control over the severity of the cycles. We seem to have (most of the time), the self-control to modify our lives in whatever ways we deem necessary to live med free with this "illness". Meds, for me, are a chemical induced prison that just made life not worth living. Example: you had mentioned earlier about the lack of desire for sex on meds. Well, who could? The slumber, lack of energy. The total detachment from ones emotions. Unable to get ones body to respond to anything, including the touch of a loved one. Inability to imagine or fantasize. And don't get me started on the nausea, constipation, trembling, dry mouth...and other things even worse than those just listed that I'll spare putting in writing, but some of you will know what I mean! Physical intimacy is waaaaay too important to be taken away by pills!?!? And this is just the sexual aspect. What about creativity? Or appetite? I NEED to taste my frickin' food! How 'bout experiencing basic human emotion such as joy, contentment, and yes I dare say anger, and I totally lost my sense of humor!! I don't think so! Can't live without that
I realize everyone's body chemisty is different and we all respond differently to the same medication, so I emphasize this was just MY experience with a pluthra of different meds tried and failed.
I think you'll agree with me Sqrl, it ain't easy! But DAMN, it's worth it!
TgrsPurr.

Hi emptyglass, yeah, everyone with this disorder is challenged deeply to know themselves in ways not neccessarily required of the "non" disordered. Part of that is the meds issue. I try when talking of my own experience not to imply that my choices would suit even one other person. No, bipolar isn't pretty in full bloom is it? It amazes me too how different the same disorder is for each person affected.

Maybe I don't have such a clear idea what I wanted to say to you as I thought, but generally just don't want you to feel like all our choices ought to be the same. You didn't say anything like that, just a feeling I got. I can get pretty exuberant about my own story, and sometimes worry that the zeal of my expression may be overly persuasive where it isn't intended to be.

Goodness, now I think i'm just gun shy this evening. I made a post earlier today that seems to have amounted to slapping a bee hive. A reminder to me that being understood is something I often take for granted.

I've enjoyed the few little talks we've shared, EG, and look forward to many more.

Thanks sqrlb8-the feeling is mutual! I think that being bi-polar, and med-free is something that few people genuinely are able to manage and I admire that. But I'm also smart enough to know my own limitations and how stressful my job is and would never consider trying to do it again unless my lifestyle changed radically. I guess I just want to reassure you that I don't believe all our choices ought to be the same, nor do I think you were implying that in your previous post.

tc

The idea of being med-free has such a seductive quality for me, but I've got to admit, it's been a disaster every time. I know from experience that most of the time I'd not be able to pen a single sentence without a kick in the butt from my AD and a soothing bit of mind-steadying benzo -- the depression would just be too enervating, the anxiety too distracting. Without my meds, I'd be too listless or locked up with tension to be creative at this point. For me, it's definitely a love/hate relationship with all those little pills. I know how much good they can do me. But I can't stand the fact that I sometimes feel like I'm locked in their grip, and can't simply walk away without some brutal withdrawl symptoms. I guess it makes me feel weak on some level. On the other hand, Klonopin and Effexor XR pack a brutal left hook and wicked uppercut when it comes to withdrawl. Cheshire Cat
P.S. Say "Hi" to Simon and Mishka

I'm having a very difficult time finding the right words to express the importance of the turn this conversation is taking. It is a subject that must be handled with the utmost delicasy....while still remaining true to the truth each individual is conveying.

The fact that I have been able to remain med free for the past 4 years, while still cycling on a regular basis with the exception of the past 3 or 4 months, in no way implies that I am "better", "stronger", "less ill" than anyone else inflicted with this hideous illness. The process of getting here took years of hard work. There are many unique qualities to my life and lifestyle that have also allowed this to be possible. (Things that I would be happy to share with anyone in the private forum of a PM, but are not necassary for the purpose of this post.) My hope, for this conversation, is that others will become educated about "choices" we all have. The process of being med free (or NOT) is about self discovery, intense self-reflection and drastic lifestyle changes that are as unique as each individual.

Thank you all for your input on this thread, I'm deeply moved and honored to be a part of it.
And sqrl, you are one of the few who is genuinely able to handle being med free. You impress me with your strength of character, integrity, and abiltiy to speak hard truth with great sensitivity. Thank you.
TgrsPurr.

I'm lucky I'm able to eek by on my meager welfare allowance; if I was going to have any hope of trying to show up someplace everyday, let alone offer any reasonably consistent level of productivity in any capacity, I would no doubt have to do so with some kind of chemical assistance. It is very much due to my ultra simple life that I can endure the comedy of errors that it is, even on this small scale.

I'm really happy, to put it mildly, that I can have something to offer here that is meaningful. But lest you envy me overly much, let me remind you that this is it for me. I don't matter anywhere else, have no responsibilities to live up to outside of bathing and loving my partner. I choose this; i'm not whining about anything. But it's nothing to admire in some sense.

If I think about it, I could say that I long for more contact with the world, but then I'm so philosophical about just making the teeny tiny space I occupy on this planet at least that much brighter, I can't get too excited about the idea I'm "missing" anything.

I suspect its a situation we will all reevaluate throughout our lives. I'm really glad we can compare experiences and outlooks to inform that eternal debate. This never happened in the doctor's waiting room, this has only ever happened for me here. What a place, huh?

Well, in that vein sqrl, allow me to elaborate on my personal daily experience.

I work M-F, 8-5. My boss says that we have some "issues" with my ability to do that on a consistant basis much of the time. And many of the days that I do show up, it is merely physical and no where near mental, emotional and psychological. I have even shown up incoherent, unclean and hallucinating from lack of sleep (fortunately, mine is a profession that I don't directly deal with the public, lol). However, I have the work ethic of a work horse. Somehow, someway the work gets done and it gets done right, even if it means that I sometimes have to repeatedly go back and fix my sometimes collosal errors. I'll stay late on the days I'm capable and come in on the weekends, again, when I'm capable. I don't go on vacations because my boss allows me to use that for my "mental health days". What is "unique" to my situation is that I have a boss and co-workers who not only tolerate my illness, but work "with" my illness. They see the efforts I make not just on the "job", but as a human being overcoming monumental adversity on many fronts, not just bp.

My home life...it's just me, my dog and my cat. I get some strange looks from them sometimes, but their unconditional love and understanding is all I need at the end of the day. I have no family. None. However, I have a special friend who's always willing to come to my home, this is where I function best. We watch movies, play cards, talk, cook, enjoy intimacy and generally have a lot of fun together.

I have my incredible faith in God and He has taken great care in giving me a life and lifestyle...a job, boss and co-workers...friends and neighbors that work with my illness, med free. I love my home. I'm most comfortable and relaxed here. I have a neighbor that looks out for me and walks my dog for me when I'm not capable of even that. He know's nothing of the life bipolar, but he never judges me, he's trustworthy and he's sweet. Again, my God provided for me.

So you see, I'm no monument to strength and greatness, I have in no way beaten this illness, my world is quite small, my human contact: minimal. But I'm comfortable with myself. I have self-esteen. I enjoy my own company. I love life and I love MY life. I FEEL my life because I don't take those blasted meds that just don't agree with me. And most importantly, I make the effort each and everyday to have a personal relationship with a God who is merciful, loving and wants to have a personal relationship with me, little 'ole me. I could not be more grateful than if I was a perfectly balanced person with the perfect husband and the perfect kids and the perfect job with the perfect bank account, living the perfect life. My life IS perfect for who and what I am.

I eat right even though I love, love, love junk food. I take my vitamins everyday. I exercise 3-5 days a week, not something I "enjoy" doing, but it's vital in order for me to have this life. I force myself to maintain a consistant sleep schedule, very important. I utilize my creative outlets in therapeutic ways, I take advantage of the beautiful nature God has provided and I always remember to be grateful for everything, even the hard things.

So there it is people....me, my life...naked for all to see. And I'm just passionate about it. Purrrrrrr.
TgrsPurr.

Well isn't this just the thread that wouldn't die?

The turn our conversation has taken is marvelous. I wish we could draw in some more on this vein.

Tgr, thanks for the candor.

So indeed, we all seem to be clear that we are nobody's example of true victory over bipolar. Probably no such thing. lol But the ability to share our combined little tricks of the trade feels invaluably informative to me. Thank you. I mean all of you, tgr, cheshire, empty, all of you. By myself, I keep a grip on it as best i can, but with all of us together, my grip feels a lot stronger. Hope that 's the same for all.

It fascinates me the variety of expression that appears when we seek to describe our connectedness and reliance upon that unnamable essence that seems beyond our comprehension and at the same time so vital to our souls. Tgr calls it her God. I call it mystery. Our language won't look at all the same, and yet it is that sense of the "beyond," i am convinced.

It's nothing short of a miracle indeed tgr, that your job and others in your life have chosen to accomodate you. Your home and your life sound beautiful and rich beyond measure.

It begins to take shape, the equation we balance of functionality and meds. If life can accomodate us to a greater degree in our illness, looks like we can get by with less on the med side. And then again, there are aspects for some of us which we can ill afford not to medicate.

Yep, diet, excercise, sleep, and creativity are all vital components of my management of life too. No one of them alone is worth much, but all together, I find an appreciable difference in my success. Funny though, if I let any one of them go, I am heading for trouble. Vigilance has become my full time responsibility.

And Tiger? You do naked real good. xo

Gosh sqrl, thank you for that reply. I must confess, after submitting that last post I felt quite....exposed. I never intended to reveal quite that much about myself or my life. I lay in bed last night with the mantra, "oh dear God, what have I done????" But the surprise of that was, I slept like the dead. I had purged what I was always fighting so hard to hold back in so many of my earlier posts. I guess now, in a sense, I feel free. Reading my post this morning I was a little horrified at how much I had actually left unsaid that would have glued it all together a bit more, but I think I probably would've ended up crashing the site had I said all that I could've said, lol. The whole thing came out a bit more stoic than I would've liked, but I think my intent at the time was just to state the facts.

Anyway, sqrl, yes, you are right. Because of ppl like you, cheshire, empty and others here, my grip IS a little bit stronger. The isolation that I tend to feel in my 3d world is kept more at bay by the connections I've made here. It is so cathartic and therapeutic to know that others are in the same boat with you, even helping to bail when the ship starts sinking.

As you know sqrl from our PM's, I watched anonymously from the sidelines for many months before making myself "visible" here. I needed to know that I had a place here...something to offer. I never expected to receive so much. I mean really, who of you in coming here thought that faceless and for the most part, nameless, ppl could come to mean so very much to you. Touching the deepest places of your heart and soul. My heart swells at the mere thought of it all. I'll sometimes be going about daily life at the grocery store or the bank or sitting with a friend....and I find myself wishing I was here. I cannot lie, it's mostly for a select few...but I care about sooo many of you.

I am richer for having come here and allowing myself to be open to all of you. Thank you, meager as that it is, is all I can think to say. TgrsPurr.

Geez, you and sqrl sound like you are doing as well as can be expected. I'm not, by far. No energy or desire anymore to even bother. I know that what I really want in life will never happen so I just don't see the point to the fight anymore. Constant pain and heartbreak is all I ever feel and I don't want to feel them anymore. I've given up and given in. It's just not worth the fight for something that'll never happen. There's just no point.

Hi Angelgirl:

I had a very bad day on Tuesday as I was seriously thinking about checking myself into the hospital. Sometimes I feel that my medication just doesn't do what it's supposed to do, because otherwise why would I get to the point where I feel this way? This little quote kept running through my head. I don't know if it will be of any use to you now but I hope it will. "When you get into a tight place and everything goes against you, till it seems as though you could not hang on a minute longer, never give up then, for that is just the place and time that the tide will turn." I may have seen this here on PC; I just can't remember at this moment. I hope the tide turns soon. tc emptyglass

eg, I'm sorry you found yourself in a bad way on Tues and almost checked yourself in the hospital. I too think my meds aren't worth #*&@. If anything, I'm getting worse with time. I hope that phrase works for you. I'm sorry but it doesn't for me. Nothing is going to change how I feel right now. I'm just not lovable in the way that I want to give it and receive it. I thought I had a chance but it's gone now.

Hello AG, I'm really very sorry that you're going through so much pain and torment right now. My heart breaks for you. It really does.

I've been staring at this little box for a while now....and the truth is, I'm at a loss for words to try to comfort you or offer any advice. Everything that comes to mind has already been said.....no words have comforted you, no suggestions have helped you, all advice dismissed. You're in a space right now where you've just given up...I don't know how to work with that. Who does?

So the conclusion I come to is that we just can't help you through what you're experiencing right now. We can be here to listen. We can be here to tell you we care. We can tell you that we too have been there and survived it all. But until you're ready to take some action to deal with what you're going through...I'm afraid that's all we can do. I can't stress the point enough that this too shall pass. What are you doing to help yourself???? We can't help you unless you're willing to help yourself. It's that simple.

I'm here for you AG, I'm not abandoning you or rejecting you or leaving you twisting in the wind. But it does seem that you've already done that to your own self. Stop. Then, and only then can things get better.

I hope I'm not saying anything wrong here, I just don't know what else TO say. And I NEEDED to let you know that I DO care. TgrsPurr.

all things in their time ag.

Tgrspurr

I know you care but didn't know what to say to me. I know that you're not rejecting or abandoning me but rest assured I'm not in that bad place anymore, thankfully I was pulled out by loving hands and rescued. It really was hard to reach me where I was, I was very deep in the abyss and it takes nothing short than a miracle to reach me at that point and that's what I got from very unexpected places. To be honest, when I get that low, I really don't want to be reached, that's why it takes a miracle to get to me. Nothing short of God's intervention working through someone is the only way to reach the depths of my despair. I always feel abandoned by God, He doesn't hear my cries until things are at their bleakest and I've totally given up and suicidal ideation turns to suicidal plans. That's where I was, working out the how and the when. I had already fallen off the edge. That is the only point when God seems to step in for me. I don't understand why He lets me get to that point. I don't understand a lot of things right now. My head is spinning, I'm filled with mixed emotions; anger, disbelief, confusion, betrayed, love for those who reached out to me, hate, distrust, power, hope, relief. So many emotions all at the same time creating chaos in my mind, shaking my head from today's life's learnings, so much anger, so much incredible anger, the immense need to lash out. I'm practicing great restraint right now, wanting desperately to lash out and not feeling that I'll always be able to contain myself, to hold it in, to keep it together... I've never been good with self-control and this time will be no different...the anger keeps growing and growing and that's not a good thing for me. I need to release it, I want to release it, it deserves to be released but yet it's still coupled with disbelief and confusion and not wanting it to be true. Betrayal is a horrible, cruel and sick game when played on the fragile, weak and vulnerable for purposeful, selfish gain. But when the game is over the weak, little lamb evolves to a big, powerful lion. The lion must roar and claim victory!!!

Yes, all things in their time.

Sister you have it alllll together

Empowerment through truth and the uniting of sisters!!!

I just want to say that I'am thankfull that we have the commerodery here and if it weren't for all you I would be lost
Angie

Well, I think the tide has shifted and you've probably put me on 'ignore', which I guess will mean you don't even see this anyway. So, if that is true, now you are rejecting me and abandoning me. I feel bad about that because I thought we were getting along great before and I love talking with you. I'm down in a depressive cycle again but it has nothing to do with you. I wish you would reconsider things if you have put me on 'ignore' but that's your choice to make.