Re: Avatars

(((((((((((( Tomi ))))))))))))))

No disagreement with your accounting. We did discuss posting some statements from the pm's and I gave you permission and I also stated it might even be good thing if the dragon was roused so I could have another peek at his mind.

Please let me say again, I was not particularly offended by anything you posted, I think my wording was out of tune with what I wanted to express. I'm very sorry if this has caused a larger misunderstanding.

my only intent was to argue in defense of self-empowerment and it may have gotten out of control from there. The word "saviour" is a sensitive one for me.....

At times in my life, my depression / anxiety may have bordered on psychosis. I attempted to reach things beyond an ordinary day to day reality. I wandered into some unconventional spiritual experimentations.... In certain states of mind I "empathized" with Jesus Christ.... I'm very facinated by this person / religious icon. I want to know as much about his real life as I possibly can. I want to know how he thought, how he percieved, what influenced him in his statements.... I'm not a religious fanatic, I just think this man / figure is incredibly interesting because of the influence he's had on civilization for over 2000 years since his death.

To even think of stepping into his shoes or even emulating him, is in my opinion, crazy in the truest sense of the word. But I still reserve the right to empower myself, and with God's help, I'll bust this nut in my head.

I still don't understand what you're feeling?


"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

(((((((((((((( Wendy ))))))))))))))

I think you were caught in the middle on this one, but the middle is exactly what we needed to find. Please have no regrets

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

Darrel, we can't be expected to step into His shoes, but we certainly are to strive to be as much like Him as possible. That said, let's close the subject and move on to our personal lives.

As I read and reread the posts that were called in to question, I realized that a crucial sentence or two had been left out from my PM. That's probably what caused all the misunderstanding. However, I think it's better left behind for the time being. I believe that particular point has been cleared up well enough.

If I've managed to encourage you to keep going with this, then I'm glad. I hadn't quite gotten to that rotten part in my onion yet. The areas we explored had already been explored before but that's not to say that I didn't glean better understanding of the issue.

Interestingly enough, Bevers and I had a conversation about our mothers. For the umpteenth time I realized that no matter how badly I miss my mom or how much I wish she was still around so that I could lay my head on her shoulder and get a loving hug from her, she still could not give me what I needed then and what I need now. Somehow I have to find my way into that spot that believes I am not worthwhile. I have to fill that spot somehow. Maybe going for the brass ring come hell or high-water whether I grab it or miss it will convince me. I don't know, but I have to try. I need to keep butting my head against that brick wall that I can't get past. If I butt it long enough, maybe I'll make a crack between the bricks and something will seep in.

Hmm... seems to me we've come full circle now. It's time to get back on track and face the personal issues that befuddle us, what say ye?

<font color=blue>Don't die with your music still inside you.</font color=blue>

Post deleted by Peanut61

Jill?
??? I'm confused


Heather

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the REALIST adjusts his sails." ~~~author unknown

No worries, ((((((((Heather)))))))) = I guess I'm just an odd duck. I want to express how I feel, but I just can't. I feel like I'm choking whenever I visit this board now-a-days, so I probably just need a break. Thanks for your concern though. Fondly, Peanut

<font color=blue>HI FROM PEANUT</font color=blue>

{{{{{{{{{{{Jill}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I know how hard it is hun...so many things have been happening here lately and you are not an odd duck ok? You wear your heart on your sleeve and have so much caring for everyone....that is a quality to hang onto ok? It is what makes you special.

We are all here for you....never worry about that ok? When the time is right for you to open up - it will happen.


Heather

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the REALIST adjusts his sails." ~~~author unknown

Since this topic has been raised; wanted to ask a question?

The kids these days have a saying, (and even wear wrist bands with the initials 'W.W.J.D.' on them), which is 'What would Jesus do?'

How would Jesus have handled the situation with Diaz?

<font color=blue>HI FROM PEANUT</font color=blue>

((((((((((((( Peanut )))))))))))))

So glad you responded to your inner conflict. That in itself is courageous and you won't be beaten on this thread for doing so.

How would Jesus have handled the situation with Diaz?

If I could be so bold as to surmise, I picture Jesus would have taken the boy straight into his arms and offered him love, compassion, understanding and then empowered him to feel worthy, brave and strong. He might have included a lecture pertaining to responsible actions. He might have understood Dias limitations. Maybe he would have forgiven him his imperfections. I'm certain he would not have cast him away.


"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

{{{{{{{{ Darrel Jill }}}}}}}}}}}}

The only thing I am going to agree to disagree with are the words casting away....I don't think that was the intention here of anyone.

I am hoping that he learned a lesson as well from what took place. It became so frustrating as I know myself, I was pming him and trying to offer guidance and advice and it fell on deaf ears.

We all learned a lesson.


Heather

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the REALIST adjusts his sails." ~~~author unknown

I empathize with you Jill...Ive learned sometimes Im better off keeping my opinions to myself....Ive watched your struggle with this one...felt your inner confusion,frustration,turmoil and grief. I empathize greatly and admire the courage you have had to speak your feelings even if it went against what others felt. I will still keep my comments to myslef about this situation...but I knwo how youre feeling Girl....((((Peanut))) I think you have a beautiful heart and soul, my friend,...truly beautiful

I know what Jesus would have done. First, He would have healed him and given him instructions as to how to live, maybe like he told a woman "Go and sin no more."

But you see? We're not God. We can't "heal" anyone... Whether they want it or not. Dias didn't want it. If you'll check Dr. John's post you'll see that Dias was on probation already and insisted on violating the terms of that probation. It was Dias' fault he was banned.

Jill, if you have an issue with me, please bring it to ME.

To all readers: I would appreciate that if you want to contribute to this thread, please stay to the subject. If you want to discuss other problems you may have on the board or how the board operates, please start your own thread. Do not corrupt this one. Thank you.

<font color=blue>Don't die with your music still inside you.</font color=blue>

After I had posted above, as so often happens, I did re-think the "casting away" statement. I believe it is true Dias was given opportunity, aplenty.

I think I'm sympathizing with him because I honestly feel he meant no harm, but he lacks the necessary skills to know what appropriate action is.

Even though he had been counseled by other members, including yourself, we can't expect a few admonishments to change a lifetime of learned behaviour.

I'm not really even convinced anymore that Jesus would have welcomed him into open arms. Jesus was known for an occasional outburst, such as when confronting the moneylenders and tax collectors. I think this demonstrates a limit of tolerance.

If it had been me, I can't honestly say I would have made a different choice than Doc.

As Tomi said, we're not God, nor are we Jesus, and maybe that's why believers understand the full sacrifice of what Jesus gave in dying for our sins. That we cannot be as perfect as he was, nor do we need to be. We can attempt to be like him, but, no one can be him, even the Doc.

I think the whole experience might have been less disturbing had it been handled privately. I know that contradicts a previous statement I made also. Hey, who said I was perfect?

Can we again use this experience as a learning tool? If we have an issue with a member, can we take it private or straight to a moderator, not post it on the boards where it then becomes a public issue?

(((((((((((( Hugs to everyone )))))))))))))

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

(((((( Tomi ))))))

I know this is all very sensitive, but isn't that why we're doing this? I don't know for certain, hell, I don't know if I know anything right now, but, I don't think Jill brought this point to the thread directed at you personally. I think she has an inner conflict, that's not resolved, and that is why this thread began. In that respect, it is on topic.

I agree if there are personal problems between the two of you, it should be handled in private. But, if we can remove the personal and deal with the issue, I'd be grateful for Jills participation.

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

((((((((( Peanut ))))))))))

I sometimes find myself in the "odd duck" position too... So have many of the worlds greatest thinkers.. Newton, Edison, Jesus Christ, Lincoln, Ghandi, Orvile and Wilbur Wright, Buckminster Fuller, Rosa Parks, Queen Elizabeth, Joan of Arc, etc..... we're in great company aren't we?

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

a request...can ya'll start a new thread with this?...my head is a spinnin with these 17 pages lol....I enjoy keeping up on it and all the insight...but thats ALOT of pages!!!!!!!!!
I wont be offended or hurt if ya don't...just merely a request

Serenity, I don't know what your setting are, but if you set them to see the posts in flat mode, the number of pages are listed in a row. All you have to do is click on the latest page and presto!

We've discussed breaking up the thread but then we realized that we'd have to click from one thread to another if we need to reference something and the first thread would be lost under many other threads. See what I mean? That's why we're keeping it all in one place.

<font color=blue>Don't die with your music still inside you.</font color=blue>

n/p...was only a request....I completely understand not wanting to jump backand forth...I guess I wasnt specific enough, I had meant when a new subject was started within this thread. But it's Cool...I've followed along this far

{{{{{{{{{{Darrel}}}}}}}}}}

Isn't it fun when we see that we are not perfect? but hey we can still think that we are....ok by me


Heather

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the REALIST adjusts his sails." ~~~author unknown

OOOOOH!! I see said the blind man to his deaf daughter over the telephone!!!

Yeah!!! I completely agree! It sure would be easier to "reference," wouldn't it? Sure! Any time you feel you want to change the subject line, go for it! I'll try to keep it in mind. If I or the others forget, could you remind us??

Great idea, Serenity!! Thanks!

<font color=blue>Don't die with your music still inside you.</font color=blue>

I don't remember if I've posted this before or not, but I think it's certainly worth another read. It not only helps with the way we talk to ourselves, our "inner dialog," but with the way we perceive or take in what others say to us.

Beauty Is In The "I"

There is much talk today about boundaries, personal power and positive affirmations. Core to these aspects of personal awareness is the "I" statement. Whether in conversation with another or as part of the self-talk (our internal running commentary on what we are doing or what we perceive others as doing),** the "I" is critical to boundary clarification and personal empowerment. This article will address the role of the "I" in boundary clarification.

For a moment, close your eyes and imagine your boundary. It should encircle you and separate you from the "outside world." Everything inside of the boundary is YOU, everything outside is OTHER. Inside the boundary are all the aspects of Self that defines YOU as a unique individual. YOU are defined by your wants, needs, likes, dislikes, beliefs, loves and passions. The many aspects of Self are owned by the word "I" and when communicated, allows Others to know something about who you are. When you tell someone "I want..." "I need..." or "I feel..." you are sharing pieces of who you are with them. "I" statements are uniquely yours, and reflect values and aspects of the self that may or may not be shared by those around you.

Boundaries can be thought of as firm yet flexible. Your boundary moves with you and is selectively "permeable." You are in charge of what you allow into your boundary. If something comes at you that you agree with or fits your experience of yourself, you can choose to allow it in and incorporate it into your "I" messages and self-talk. If, however, something is not a part of you or is not true for you, you can choose to leave it outside of your boundary.

Many of us struggle with "You" statements or critical comments that may be thrown our way. Often, people share with me their deep hurt from what others say or think. They have not developed an internal mechanism for disarming these potentially toxic messages.

If you remember that your boundary is in your control, you can choose to let other's thoughts and opinions stay outside. Their negative statements are not automatically "Yours." If they are not brought in and owned bye the "I" they remain in the real of the "Other." You do not have to take them on. If someone pays you a compliment, you can choose to take it in, but it is still about the other. If I say I like something about you, I am telling you something about my preferences, values or opinions. If I tell you that I hate the same thing, I am still telling you something about me.

Remembering that other's opinions tell us something a bout them, not about us, is very important! When we are children, we learn much of who we are by what others tell us about ourselves. Hopefully, the messages have been positive. However, it is more commonly true that we hear critical and toxic messages that we internalize and make part of our own self-talk. As an adult, being aware of these critical messages, and making the choice to re-evaluate whether the messages are Yours, or belong in the realm of the Other, allows you to begin the process of changing your old self-talk into new empowering, nurturing messages. It is the first step toward defusing and disowning a message that has no place in your repertoire of self-talk.

"You" messages usually are inherently boundary violations. No one else can tell us what we think or fell, though often Others will try to do this very thing. You are the only one living in your body, and the only one who can report to an Other what you think of feel. Others can ask, they may assume, but they cannot KNOW until we tell them with our "I" statements.

It is important for us to take note of how we think and feel about the many choices we face daily. If we become captive to everyone else's ideas as to what we should or should not do, we lose our sense of who we are. The boundary blurs and we will not differentiate who we are from others around us.

So, remember to visualize your boundary. You have control over it. It belongs to you. What is inside is YOU, what is outside is OTHER. Everything inside composes the "I" and who you are. This is dynamic and growing as each day brings new awareness and insight. Living with the "I" keeps your boundary clear and the Self empowered.
_______________________________________________________________

Sheila K. McHenry Worman, Psy D., MFCC


<font color=blue>Don't die with your music still inside you.</font color=blue>

Once time I thought I made a mistake, but....... how does that go ?

((((((((( Heather )))))))))

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

Seems like a decent article, I'll work my way through it and see how "I" come out at the other end.

For a moment, close your eyes and imagine your boundary.

I am more attuned to my physical boundary than my abstract boundaries. That could be why I've been in situations most people would never get involved in, but another part of the reason for that is a wide audience of empathy. I've learned lessons in the most remarkable places... homeless people for example have taught me the value of a hot meal, a friend at your back, a roof over my head......

Everything inside of the boundary is YOU, everything outside is OTHER.

I understand the intent of this statement to mean we can choose what has an effect on us. I think it's important however, to be mindful that OTHERs are connected to me, and I to them, socially. Being seperate is not an open door to apathy.

You are in charge of what you allow into your boundary. If something comes at you that you agree with or fits your experience of yourself, you can choose to allow it in and incorporate it into your "I" messages and self-talk. If, however, something is not a part of you or is not true for you, you can choose to leave it outside of your boundary.

I don't disagree that the power of choice is completely the property of he or she who possesses it, yet I'm considering that choice and correct choice are not synonymous. If I choose to put low grade fuel in my high grade car, I must be responsible for the outcome of clogged fuel lines and poor performance.

If, however, something is not a part of you or is not true for you, you can choose to leave it outside of your boundary.

This assumes that I know what is true before I can know if it's true for me. Wish I could.....

Many of us struggle with "You" statements or critical comments that may be thrown our way. Often, people share with me their deep hurt from what others say or think. They have not developed an internal mechanism for disarming these potentially toxic messages.

I think I'd like to develop a more critical eye in reference to this. Before I disarm a "negative" remark, I'd like to be sure if it is truly toxic, or simply painful. If I disarm every negative statement, I might miss one or two that are true and it is me who suffers in the end.

If someone pays you a compliment, you can choose to take it in, but it is still about the other.

I agree with this statement, but think it's incomplete. I can also choose to take the compliment into my boundary and make not the compliment, but the trait which was complimented, a part of who I am. I can then further choose to develop that trait to a higher potential. Self recognition and self-reward (patting ourself on the back, or a full blown celebration) builds positive self image and healthy self esteem. Egocentricity is something else.....

If I tell you that I hate the same thing, I am still telling you something about me.

I'm probably telling you about the dragon.

However, it is more commonly true that we hear critical and toxic messages that we internalize and make part of our own self-talk. As an adult, being aware of these critical messages, and making the choice to re-evaluate whether the messages are Yours, or belong in the realm of the Other, allows you to begin the process of changing your old self-talk into new empowering, nurturing messages. It is the first step toward defusing and disowning a message that has no place in your repertoire of self-talk.

Amen to that !!!

"You" messages usually are inherently boundary violations.

Oddly enough, this is true even for the statement "I love you". We can choose to accept the Others love, or reject it as we would "I hate you." Some "love" is as toxic as hate.

You are the only one living in your body, and the only one who can report to an Other what you think or feel. Others can ask, they may assume, but they cannot KNOW until we tell them with our "I" statements.

If someone is not interested in your "I" statement, you are not in a healthy situation. To expect our own "I" statement to be respected, we also need to respect the Others expectation for equal treatment. We cannot in good conscience disregard the ideas of another and demand attention to our own from that same person.

Living with the "I" keeps your boundary clear and the Self empowered.

I disagree with the last portion of this statement. Nothing about self-awareness is empowering except that having self awareness can tell us whether or not we are sefl-empowered.

Our self empowerment comes from knowing, and acting upon, the belief that as an individual we are accorded a range of human rights due to all people everywhere and granted for the sole reason that we are present in any situation.

Not to be cynical, but , in my opinion, knowing the "I" is not exactly a definition of beauty. Many know exactly where thier "I" boundaries lie and still are toxic because of an inability to differentiate truth and protecting self-image.

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

"I was wrong once.....I thought I made a mistake ....but I didn't"

{{{{{{{{{{Darrel}}}}}}}}}}


Heather

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the REALIST adjusts his sails." ~~~author unknown

Darrel, this was just an article that she wrote for a local newspaper and she had to keep it under so many words. It's in no way complete. I could add a bit to it, too, but I think it needs to be taken on face value at first. All it is, is "milk." The "meat" comes after you've internalized the "milk."

I've read your comments on it twice and I'm still not sure if I understand everything you've said. I'll give it a few more readings and see what I come up with.

Keep in mind that the level we are working at is at the bottom of the scale. It's a slow process. We need to take a first step, then a second step and so on. They need to be "baby steps." We need to zero in on ourselves an our own perspectives first before we include too many people as we apply what we've learned from the wisdom and proven success of this article. Remember, the woman has a Doctorate in psychology. I also know her personally. I can count on the fingers of one hand where she made some mistakes in my therapy. I need to keep in mind that she is as human as I am, but not as prone to the same mistakes as I am because of all her knowledge and practise of it.

I wish she had included "constructive criticism" in the article, though. She did teach me to not react to them before I gave them thought. It's proven a valuable tool to me. I let the smarting go away and then I pick apart the criticism. If there is any truth in it, then I strive to change that aspect of me if I can. That, to me is staying in the Self and empowering. I become the best "me" that I can. It's a continuous work.

Forgive me, but I still feel that you need to focus on just you and the changes you want to make in yourself rather than worry about "society" and how you can impact it. It won't be a positive impact until you know better who you are and achieve some of those changes that you want to make.

There is, however, something to be said about getting involved in one specific issue like I did with Grandparent Visitation. As angry as some parents made me with their selfishness and power trips, including my daughter, I learned that the parents have the final say after all. I learned a whole lot more but I don't need to go through that again, except to say that I did learn a lot from that experience.

BTW, did you read what I wrote on my website? You never said. The conclusion I came to was to post all the alternatives as well as the opposing view and I let the grandparents decide for themselves what it is they want to do. I no longer get involved personally.