[carcinogen]

I know I'm supposed to stay positive and keep my head up. But something inside me pulls me down. I've done the therapy. I've been on medication. Nothing has ever seemed to help me through to the other side. not even on a temporary basis. I don't have up moments. It's all a down hill ride. Even the most positive things in my life aren't enough to make me smile anymore. About two months ago I was offered the opportunity to have three pieces of my "art" used as end sheets for a three book set that included my favorite author. The company that used these pieces is a small press horror publisher known for high quality, small run (300 total copies), highly collectable books. And the idea that I am included in some way with this project should be more than enough to have me excited. Especially considerring that again my favorite author wrote two of the books included. Not to mention the price of this set ($125) and the fact that there is no other way I could afford copies outside of my contributor copies. But it's just the same as everything else in my life. I can't smile and be happy. I don't allow myself. I can't seem to get past all the pain.

I woke up today with some back pain. Nothing unusual for me. And it brings up more misery because I can't do the things I need to do for my wife. I am still unemployed and my wife works hard at a job that she shouldn't have to do just to get us by. And I can't even wash the damn dishes because standing in front of the sink kills my back after a couple minutes.

I'm rambling here I know. That's just my brain in action lol. I'm one of those people who you hate conversing with in a coherant straight line. I catch an idea in my head and I take off ina new direction and maybe I'll make my way back around to the original point.

[kebsfroggy]

As a frog of little brain I'm unable to give you an answer. Yes depression is vicious and sneaky and pulls you down. Then when you think you have reached bottom you find out it can get deeper and darker.

Even if you can't smile and be happy about the "art" for the end sheets in a book set. You can not deny your accomplishment. Congratulations.

I understand about the back pain. The only time I'm not in pain is after my injections. Those (because of my insurance) are only allowed 3 times a year. Morphine in on a long list of medications to make it through my day. Sitting is about the only activity I can do without pain.

Don't give up on your medication and therapy just keep changing things until you find the right combination. I've been through 70 some meds and combinations there of and 5 different Pdocs before I found some relief. Notice I said relief not cure. Never was really lucky with therapy but I was able to lose my self in drawing and sewing and that has helped some.

Like I said before I'm just a frog of little brain. I want you to know you are not alone. Post here whenever you feel like it. There are those that understand what you are going through and are willing to listen.

kebs

I think between the pain you are experiencing physically and the possible shame you feel for being unable to work as of yet,that these feelings are stronger than the satisfaction you may have received otherwise for the accomplishment.Rather than focusing on the points where you may be lacking temporarily...how about noticing what is positive.I understand how terribly difficult it is for a man to feel he is not doing enough.I fully empathize with that.It is a hard thing to feel.But,you have good qualities and contributions as well.You know what you would do differently if you could...and your support in any context toward your wife is very useful to her.Telling her how much you appreciate her,how happy you are that she is in your life,telling her you know how hard it must be...these tender exchanges help her.Laying beside her and tenderly touching her.Have you used medication for your back?I broke my neck at 18 and fell 20 ft to tailbone at 13...and developed arthritic burs on the vertebrae...and aleeve helps with it.But,if you have....say ...bulging discs etc. you may need an
injection and corticosteroids to help the pain.You aren't rambling...you are feeling distressed and need to express yourself.That is useful to release some of the pressure you are walking through.I am glad you expressed yourself.Keep us updated...reach out.

[Leed]

Bless your heart!! You know, when you're in physical pain, and you cannot do many things, that thrusts you into a depression that is very difficult to get out of. I can definitely relate, as i have alot of spinal problems, and because of this I've had to go on Social Security Disability. I could no longer work anymore. Have YOU thought about applying for SSD??? You might want to send in an application -- and if you get denied, then hire an attorney on contingency -- and HE will get it for you!!!

Being "disabled" (which you are) makes you feel kind of "worthless" since in our society we seem to be labeled as "lazy" and "good for nothing" if we don't work. People like to say "jeez, you don't LOOK disabled!!" Well, how is someone with a disability SUPPOSED to look?

You definitely are suffering from depression -- and it could be that the medications you have tried just have been the wrong ones for you. Sometimes we have to try several before we find one that REALLY works. And keep in mind that you have to be on them for 3-6 weeks before they take effect !! Perhaps you weren't on them long enough -- or like I said, you just need to find something else that works.

And as far as changing "gears" during a conversation -- did you know that chronic pain can cause that? Studies have shown that people with chronic pain suffer brain damage!!! Plus, when you're hurting 24/7, it's difficult to hold one thought for more than a couple of seconds! All of us have short-term memory losses -- and conversations can get pretty stressful for us because we can't think of the right "words" or phrases that we want to use.

How about asking your doc for a referral to a pain management doctor? There, you will probably get your pain under control -- and that will surely help things. Plus talking with a therapist would help too. Check with your county's Mental Health agency -- they might offer counseling based on the ability to pay -- some even offer it for free.

I wish you the very best. I know how this whole thing can affect you. Take care of YOU. God bless. Hugs, Lee

[carcinogen]

Thanks guys. A couple clarifications.... I am not currently seeing any form of Doctors nor am I taking any medications that can't be had over the counter. Due to my current unemployed state I do not have the insurance so I am trying to make it through without. It's rough mostly because day to day I just don't know how much pain there will be physically or emotionally. But I get by. Hell I'm here and will be for every tomorrow so that's definately a good thing.

The art thing is something I am definately proud of. I spent a time just making these paintings and staring at them, but refusing to share them with anyone but my wife. Well I decided that a forum I go to a lot for some of my favorite authors was a place where I could show my work with no in person criticisms. A few months later I get the email asking for the use of three and yeah pride is certainly inside me. Just harder to accept it when I am in one of my moods. Now I'm looking at showing them in a small gallery and maybe selling a few of them. The hardest part is that what I put on these canvases is not typical pretty pictures. Think Pollock for reference. It's all abstract lines and splashes and occasionally a face will appear by accident which is something that freaks me out.

Haha. Today's a good day I think. Hopefully it stays that way.

That is so awesome to hear about you showing the art.I hope that you do end up showing the art.Let us know how it goes and update on how you are feeling .Hear from you later hopefully.WO.olf

[shezbut]

((carcinogen))

I understand where you are coming from.

I am very glad to hear that you are feeling pride and some excitement about your art accomplishments. You should be proud! That's a wonderful thing ~ I'd love to see the prints of your work. Being work, I would assume that sometimes stress goes along with your art.

There are other stress relievers to get through those very dark times. DBT provided me with a lot of things to refer others to try. My personal favorite to help me through horrible times is nature. Watching the clouds in the sky, listening to the birds chirp and cackle, feeling the sensation of fresh air on my skin (or imagining the feeling), closely inspecting objects of nature (like rocks, leaves, etc). These things bring a sense of peace to me. In that moment ~ it calms me down, and puts me back into a better state of mind.

If nature isn't your thing, perhaps music, scents, or taste are worth a shot for you. The list of possibilities is endless! I do wish you the best.

[carcinogen]

Shezbut... Nature is a beautiful thing and we spent the last three days either in the Apartment pool or at the local lake. Been a lot of fun and honestly was anice distraction from my internal world for the most part. I wish music was still the outlet it used to be. I grew up listening to so much music, and in my late teens started playing in bands and have been on two small east coast tours as a bass player. Years of the band thing though tore me down. Too many egos and I am not the type to tolerate that phony crap. So I finally walked away from it and now the only time I really listen to any music is in the car.

My art is not work in the least. I was paid for the Endsheets well after the pieces were finished and the possible show is just something local that may provide a little extra income. I don't think I'd ever do a piece for pay or on spec. Just not my idea of art. The only time I seem to find the inspiration is when I am really down. I mean under the floorboards depressed. So I try not to do to many pieces too often.

Well today again is not a bad one. I'm watching Caddyshack and drinking a big cup of coffee. Maybe read a vicious horror novel later tonight. Funny that with all the mental issues one of the things that brings me up is reading something brutal and vicious. Is that odd?

[shezbut]

Originally Posted by carcinogen

Funny that with all the mental issues one of the things that brings me up is reading something brutal and vicious. Is that odd?

I don't think that it's odd really. I always went for those types of books back when I had the memory to read. Those things held my interest. Love stories have always turned me away ~ kind of make me angry. Perhaps it's jealousy on my part. I have a very hard time with trust.

Anyway, I'm happy to hear that today has been a better day for you, and that you find solace in some things. That is wonderful, carcinogen, hold onto it.

[carcinogen]

And with the ups come the downs. My mother in law is in the hospital for some made up sickness that she is exploiting in order to bring as much attention to herself as possible and deny anyone any piece. And my wife being the good daughter that she is has been by her side the whole time. I miss my wife and knowing that she's being lied to and manipulated so easily is driving me crazy. Now I'm pissed off and depressed because my wife is not here. If she was taking care of someone who is actually sick I would be happy for her and her support of her mother, but knowing that woman the way I do it just infuriates me and that just drops the good mood I've had the last day or so into the dumps. This is part of the reason I avoid most human contact. People like my mother in law are the worst to deal with on a daily basis and it seems these wrecking machins are growing in number.

[shezbut]

Gentle hugs to you (((carcinogen)))

That behavior described of your MIL is maddening to me. Drives me insane just to think about it. ohhhhhmmmmm ... Got to think about something else. We can really only control our behavior. The sooner that we accept that fact, the easier it will be to let go of our bitter emotions. (Like the resentment I often feel inside.)

Perhaps you should try writing a letter to your wife, in which you express how you feel. Like: "I feel as though your mom exaggerates things to get your attention. I feel sad (mad, etc.)." The point is expressing your emotions without attacking your wife's.

It can be tricky to do in the heat of the moment ~ so I recommend taking the time to be sure that your words aren't aimed against anyone. That will let your wife know how you feel (to an extent) and not feel the need to attack you in her defense.

I have tried doing this in the heat of the moment a few times, and it really does work! I just recommend that you practice a little, so the words come more easily to you when you are feeling emotional. Me talking about my emotions really diffused the situations immediately. Give it a shot!

[carcinogen]

Thanks Shez... The funny thing is that my wife knows how her mother is full well. She was raised in a pentacostal religious world and while my wife has moved away from that belief system she still has over 20 years of ingrained cultish beliefs to work through. And she tells me often that the situation is something she can't explain and barely understands herself as far as her behavior with her mother. I did say she was lied to and the thing is she knows it's all lies.

I am one that runs my mouth and tells it like it is regardless of others feelnigs. The fact is that I believe a good friend / husband is someone who tells you what things really are like. And my wife found my extreme honesty one of the qualities that drew her to me.

[carcinogen]

Well ****. I crashed tonight. And feel the weight of self pity and hatred on my shoulders. I sit here at almost 2 a.m. and can do nothing more than just stare out into the world beyond and know that I am not a part of it. The saddest part is that honestly I don't want to be a part of the world. It's the fact that I am not a part of it and so many people I know are and I can't seem to figure out how to be there with them that bothers me most. It's like the party that you don't want to attend, but you want to be invited to. I have always been an outsider and thrive on that fact. But after so many years I feel like I've lost touch with society. I can't even have a normal conversation with anyone. It's always strained and phony. I think about what to say instead of just talking. Mainly because I just don't think like them and My mouth gets beyond my brain and I offend or upset them if I let myself open up verbally.

So... now I want to go and hide in the closet and turn the lights off and pretend that there is nothing outside that little thin door. Solitude, quiet. No one to put me on edge. Anxiety and I'm home alone. There's no one here. How ****ed up is that?

[shezbut]

I'm sorry carcinogen.

Gentle hugs to you. I hope that your mood lifts up soon.

[carcinogen]

That was a bad few days there. Things now are a little better mentally if not in any other way. And that's a good thing. Though I know it'll all come crashing down on me again soon. It's not that I sit here and wait for it or hope for it in some sick way. just self aware. It's bound to happen. It's happeend too damn many times in my life to even try and lie to myself and say that it's not coming back this time.

Well, on the good side... I got a Pre-Reading gig with an author I really like. No pay, but access to stories before anyone else and free books when the ones I've worked on are published. And my name in the acknowledgements section. It's time consuming, but oh so worth it.

[carcinogen]

It's sort of cathartic to post here every once in a while. I know I don't participate in other things on here. I guess it's just silly self pity that keeps me from looking around too much and seeing that other people have real problems also. A lot more than mine too sometimes.

This is one of those really bad days. I want to tell the world things that I am apparently not allowed to say on here and I know I don't mean them, but still it's good to let it out, ya know...? Screaming at walls and computer screens can help sometimes. Help you cope and work through it all. Bad words and worse thoughts bring the world into perspective for me on occasions like this.

It's 1 a.m. and I sit here wondering if it's worth trying to make it in this world, or if I should sit in the closet and just read in the dark. Ignoring all the pressure outside the door. Outside in the real world, where you either make it on your own or you're dust on the trail.

I have to make decisions that I swore I would never make. And accept things that I swore I would never accept. ******. Really ******. But I guess it's time to man up as it were and take what I can get. beggars, choosers. You know the game.

[kebsfroggy]

Unfortunately the world outside that door isn't going to go away. All those "things" you don't want to face are going to remain. It's all there. It's life.

I have to make decisions that I swore I would never make. And accept things that I swore I would never accept. ******. Really ******. But I guess it's time to man up as it were and take what I can get. beggars, choosers. You know the game.

If it eases your frustration and pain to post here from time to time, to scream at the walls and computer screen, or hide in the closet then I'm all for it. As long as you do not hurt yourself or others it is not wrong for you to cope which ever way works for you.

The moment you feel beyond "safe" seek immediate medical intervention. Nothing else will help.

Always feel (can't think of word I want) but please post when ever and as often as you like. Many times just typing out all your feelings and thoughts will help.

kebs

[carcinogen]

Things were looknig up for a little while there. Got a job that I don't like, but at least I was contrinuting. Happier and more energetic with general day to day things. My depression, while still strong was not sitting on my chest like a rhino as it usually does. NOW I found out that my wife may be losing her job. The job that we depend on to live this meager existence we have. It's all over a truly minor mistake that her supervisors are blowing out of proportion. If she loses her job I don't know where we'll wind up. Possibly homeless at this point. There's just no way we can make it on menial salaries like the one I'm making now. It's getting harder and harder to make it day to day without crying in a ball on the floor. I just can't stand it right now. I want to scream and curse and strike out at the world, but it's all so futile. No one cares and why should they? No one's willing to help and why should they? I sit here every day and wish that it was the one that wasn't. That I didn't have to face yet another bleak awakening. I write this through a shield of tears streaming down and dripping from my chin falling on the keyboard. A man who can't be a man anymore. A man who can't properly provide for his wife. What kind of person am I?.... It's pointless.

[St406]

You are going through alot and it would be that for anyone. One of your earlier posts said that you are not on meds of any kind. There are ways to get them w/o insurance and some are very inexpensive regardless. Maybe this would be a good time to start---you r in alot of pain.

In our current culture, men are defined by their employment and women defined by their appearance. It's wrong and other cultures do not define us like this. Don't let that eat away at your value as a human being and a man. You seem to be a conscientious, sensitive, caring husband who may have financial problems ahead.

[carcinogen]

The definition of a 'man' is not exactly how I define myself, but i understand how it can be taken that way. It's more complicated than my sexual identity. I just happen to be the male in my marriage. My wife feels like she is the one letting me down in our current situation. This is far from the truth. She made a small mistake at her job that as I said is being blown way out of proportion. When I lost my good job two years ago it was over some major stuff that went wrong. A lot of it was not my fault directly, but as a supervisor I was responsible. I just know that if things had worked out properly my wife could go back to school and leave this job that leaves her miserable everyday and find something more to her liking. Yes, I know that VERY few people actually like their job, but it's a lot better to try and find one that you do like than to be put on meds by her Dr. and suffer through the misery every day. Yes, my wife is on some meds. And occasionally I snatch one from her bottle. Somedays there really is no choice in the matter for me. I know I'm breaking all kinds of pharmaceutical rules, but honestly I don't care. If it's what I need to get through a night, than it's what I need to get through.

[carcinogen]

As all things change they stay the same
And life it move along a broken chain
I am the link that failed and broke

[carcinogen]

It's been a long time since I last posted here. Things are looking up in some ways, but I can't seem to get the monkey that is depression and self loathing off my back.

My wife and I moved into our own house back in December. Her grandmothers old place that she can't take care of anymore so we got it at a steal. Straight from her greandmother we pay just a small $200 a month to her. No mortgage or anything. Papers are already signed over and the hosue is in my wife's name, but we give her grandma that little bit just to make it all fair. The place is nice, but pretty old and needs some repairs that I am not capable of and we really can't afford. We'll see how this works out. And as suspected it keeps me up at night and worrying all day.

I've been worknig from home still. Love that aspect of this ****** job. I roll out of bed in my pajamas and make a cup of coffee and I'm already at work. Not bad. Now if only the job I do wasn't so damned stressful. And that's not he depression and all talking. This job is rough sometimes.

Seemed to find an answer to some of my loneliness when my wife is at work. We adopted two dogs and two cats from friends of hers. The dogs stay outside for the most part but seem to enjoy it. I spend at least an hour a day out playing with them in our 1/4 acre yard. It keeps me in the sun which I know helps with chemically balancing the body. The cats are inside only, but they have a screened in porch where they like to sun themselves. They're really sweet little things and love to just sit near one of us and press against our legs and look cute.

So all that and I'm still sitting in a pool of misery. I can't accept any of it without worrying about what's going to go wrong. Old a.c. unit for example. I'm just waiting for it to quit on us and we're out of luck getting a new one that'll cool down the whole house. Sagging floor that we already "fixed" once that seems to not want to stay fixed and we can't figure out why it keeps breaking down. Add the usual self hatred and miserable pain of aging and injuries and I'm a ball of internal violence.

I know that I've got it easier than a lot of folks on here and I feel "blessed" for that fact that I don't have it worse. And certainly feel for those with what I think are real problems. But somehow none of it matters when I self examine and find all the things I hate about this being inside my skin.