Questions, comments, musings

Deleted by me

What's up MeSo--you ok????

No, not ok, don't know why

keep trying to post and can't...erase, sit, stare, type, erase

not ok at all! (but ty for asking)

teary and crying today, don't know why

overwhelmed with don't know what

WHY must i be such a mystery to myself? IF i made my parts (if i have them), why don't they just tell me my life?! WHY do i have to wonder all the time about my life??? i'm sick of this! IF what i've thought happened to me actually happened, WHY can't i just know it? Knowing but not knowing. i don't know who i are anymore. i don't know if i ever did. i'm so tired of it all. So so tired.

tears trickling down my face...why? i don't CARE! i'm just crazy...and i don't know why i should be alive for this.

i can't think.

MeSo, I feel the same way, same reasons. I have no answers, no insiders knowledge to help, but i wish I did. All I can tell you is that you are not alone. I wonder a lot about "parts." They have free will, don't they? They inhabit a world inside that belongs just to them. I don't know what I really think, but I also just wonder who belongs to whom. Maybe I should erase this, as you erase your words. Maybe I'll leave them and you erase them if you want.

i hear you Miri, you sound sad too. i'm sorry. You can write whatever you want it's ok.

The parts...i don't know. i just don't know. They're in our heads, we created them right? If they really have free will then it seems that we're not one person like people say. It's all very confusing.

i had a dream last night/this morning about some sort of monster and space and time...i don't remember much of it but maybe that's what today has been about. i dunno. Most of the time i don't feel...neither in my dreams or irl. What's weird (and unrelatedly random) is that my voice and mind say neither as n-e-e-t-h-e-r and i've always said it n-i-t-h-e-r. i'm about to erase that but fighting the urge.

BLAH!

So...ok...

My original message was about how people seem not to talk about their experiences of abuse. Is that cuz that should be in the abuse forum and not here? i don't see people talking about their experiences there either.

i also wrote that i wish there was an r.a. forum. i would like to know if other people have the f'd up thoughts, pictures, and stuff i do.

i need help.

WAS i ritually abused or have i gone through a maze of puzzles making pieces fit that don't fit?

DO i have parts or have i gotten carried away in my mind somehow?

WHY have i been stuck in this muck for so long?

ARGH! !#@$*$&%*@)*

T and i have started a timeline and i just gotta laugh...a mirthless, sarcastic laugh. i remember so much but feel like so much is missing. i wish i had a personal assistant that could take all my nightmares and all my journal entries and make sense out of them. i've tried organizing them by perpetrator and got pretty far but never finished. i still can't see the big picture. i still gotta laugh at that...i have a list by perpetrator.

i don't know why i'm bothering to write any of this...i really don't.

MeSo....

I am glad that you are writing this and expressing your feelings!! That is very important.

A lot of people in the abuse forum don't talk so much about their abuse, I think because they are afraid to trigger themselves, and they are afraid to trigger others. Plus, it's just plane hard to talk about.

In regards to your journals and how you organize them by perpetrator. I am sorry that you even have to do that, but if that works for you and it helps you make sense of some things, I say go for it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that if it is helpful to you.

I have an understanding of what you are saying about feeling confused about whether you have alters or not and why they don't get on with it and tell you things. We created our systems when we were young to protect ourselves from bad things. We basically created suit cases that we could store our experiences in and hide away in storage, and we built them good so nothing could leak out. It is not abnormal to not have an understanding of your system or a dialogue between parts. They are there to protect you and keep you safe from these experiences and they will only release things to you as you are ready for them. To release them all at once could be catastrophic for you.

Over time, working with your T, you will gain more understanding and communications with your system. It takes LOTS of patience and work, but you will get there. If you do have parts...they are doing what they were created for, and with time and trust with T, they will slowly start to emerge and after some time you will hopefully develop some co-consciousness.

I don't know if any of this helps, but I just wanted you to know that maybe you are right were your supposed to be on your journey, and that as bad as it feels, it is okay to be confused and you will not be this way forever. Most importantly, please know you are not alone and I will be here for you if you ever need anything.

yea, what she said

About the RA stuff. I struggle with that very much and sometimes some parts can work on less overwhelming things until it is time that we are strong enough to know more. It is frustrating. Sometimes a part holding memories from those experiences comes more to the front and wants to "flood" the system. My current T has said "Slower is faster" and as much as the part knowing about RA wants to "show and tell" the rest of my alters who are working hard in therapy to have healthy communication I believe my T when she says "You will know more when you are ready."

Just my thoughts...FWIW

Thanks muchly for all your words of wisdom.

i have lots of things i know about r.a. and can't explain how i know and it took me a long time to explore that (years) so i know i'm not trying to wear an experience that isn't mine.

The thing is, i don't remember remember. The closest thing i remember to all that is a time my brother took me to a church and we left before even sitting down. It wasn't a Catholic or a Lutheran church (my family split the kids into those two religions yet, i kid you not, i was the ONLY one who went to church. alone). He looked down at me as we stood in the aisle and asked if i wanted to go and i said yes and we left. WHY? i FEEL he knew damn well why. i FEEL he was testing his power because that church...fits my dreams and a flashback.

But i don't remember remember things happening that match the content of my dreams/nightmares. i guess i won't go into that here.

i know dissociative memory is different than regular memory. If i was zoned out in order to survive, no wonder i can't remember remember. Still, it's quite maddening. Crazy making.

i know it happened. i feel it deep in my gut. But self doubt comes SO fn easily. This spiral...that word means something hmmm.

To my parts: i'm sorry

MeSO, what you say resonates with me so much. I don't really want to tell my story here and like you, I both know and don't know that it happened. It doesn't amke any sense nor carry any logic if I try to see it as an outsider looking in - my family was so "normal" yet what my alters have told me and shown me through drawings, well it also fits with other things i know about myself.
I want to bring up something related, maybe. You say that others don't talk about abuse, but i have noticed too that everyone seems to talk around the reality. No one uses the term alters, or refers to themselves as multiple. Of course, I know that this is for dissociaitve disorders and that doesn't necessarily mean DID, but lots mention parts by name or the Little Ones, etc. Am I on some kind of wrong track here? If I call other parts of me alters and say I'm multiple am I breaking some unwritten rule? I know very well that "Multiple" is not correct medical terminology, but I do tend to think of myself as multiple, or multi-faceted. I use the correct terms when speaking to others, but were kind of like family here, or friends, in a way. Can I feel free to speak with the language that I use in my head and heart or will I offend someone? Don't want to do that. I need place to belong and honestly, I've wanted it to be here, but it's not really happening for me.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to turn this into my stuff, but it kind of seemed to follow from you have said MeSO, kind of feeling around for what's okay and what's not going to be acceptable here. I feel the same way. if safe

meso,

i wish i'd written yesterday. when i saw you'd deleted i mistakenly thought you didn't want to get into something. i get frustrated (not with you) on here because i don't know how much is too much and i do not want to trigger anyone because we've all been hurt so damn much already. but i relate to every single posting since you started this thread. i got the idea along the way that if i was not careful and wrote stuff i'd gone through in r.a. i might hurt others and bring up horrors. i am torn between wanting to hide from my past and blurt it all out and beg someone to come and hold me and rock me (metaphorically speaking, in cyberspace). we all sort of dance around what stuff and yet this place is one place i've found the most support and most "kinship" or "fellowship",- in this Club We Never Wanted to Be In...

the multiples in your head are not (imo) witholding things from you on purpose. i have all kinds of multiples who have jobs that are conflicting with each other but were all created for a need at the time. even some of my more destructive parts did what they did to help me and sometimes they just don't understand we don't need the old jobs in the same old way we did as kids. it's not like my alts are messing with me in mean ways, on purpose (though some have done so in the past) - although those who abused me did their best to do exactly that - screw me coming and going and put me in double binds. they did their best to drive me insane or self-destructive. they wanted me to wreak havoc in the place i am and then destroy myself. they were sick bastards who are probably rotting in hell now.

meso, so much you wrote sounds like things i've thought and tried to figure out. i have these horrendous, extreme "memories" that many times have no feelings attached and i have horrendous, hideous feelings sometimes and no exact explanation in my head of why these feelings are here and what to do about them. WHAT SAVED ME AS A KID IS SCREWING ME UP SEVERELY AS AN ADULT. i developed a Super-Strong denial system. they convinced me that if i ever told and got someone to believe me that i would die slowly and in excruciating pain. they made me believe. so when memories began to creep up on me - many years after they did this stuff to me, it's been really hard to get past the deep denial. as a kid i even turned the "lights off" in my mind to "not see" memories clearly and "not see" my inside people and all sorts of stuff.

i don't tell, partly to not trigger anyone and partly because i'm afraid of being called an effing liar, lunatic, attention-seeker, and some other unsavory names. if the man i married 29 years ago refuses to believe me and only my two daughters believe me - speaking of family....it feels very risky to tell anyone my story. (basic outline: my mom's parents were both into occult, him satanism, her into rosecrucianism.though they eventually divorced i'm not clear on all they did to me. their kids were abused in the coven. my mom abused me and allowed them to use me in rituals. i had a 4th grade satanist for a teacher and my first pastor was a satanist. i figure that is enough info to show that i was really messed up in r.a.)

meso and all who wrote before me, i don't know what the answer is, but i believe you and know that i wish i had places where i could just say things. i've been coming here for over 9 months and i've read many posts and seen many people in excruciating pain and dangerous places. i don't want to be the one who puts more pain in anyone's life, i don't wanna push their switches. so....i'm guessing that is why many of us dance around some of the stuff that is bugging us to death. we tend to talk about the daily struggles of living in a world that doesn't understand us at best and disrespects us or harms us at worst. we need more. i think we deserve more. i'm just not sure how we can have more and yet in looking for our help, "do no harm" to anyone else.

my husband is looking at job pay cuts or losing the job he's held for 21 years and i was trying to be supportive and he said something about who was i to talk when i don't do much of anything. right now that is the "literal" truth, but not the whole story. his words slapped me down and i was just trying to give him the emotional support i wish he could give me and it turned out badly. i am not in love with being dissociative. i don't want excuses to sit on the sidelines and be on the sicklist. i don't want pity or sympathy; i want to get well. it is taking me so much longer than i ever thought it would. i would work if i could hold my head together and deal with the chronic pain. i am willing to be well and be responsible - this was not my idea of who and what i wanted to be in life - being a career psych-client. BUT, no matter what he thinks of me, I am becoming kinder to myself and I respect the hell out of my alts. Everyone of them has done what they can to help me survive - which is in direct opposition to the abuser's goals for me. I lived a childhood that felt like a concentration camp and no one lifted a finger to help me back then. Being me and still alive makes me some kind of a war-hero even though the world doesn't see the battles or acknowledge the war I've been in since 1953. All of us here on this forum are trying to survive and recover from wherever we are when we start on our road to recovery. I hope we can all continue to be kind and supportive to each other and maybe at some point there can be some way we can find to tell things we need/wish to get off our chests and out of our minds. it's just that today i don't know how to do that without being inappropriate or reined in by those who moderate these groups to protect the vulnerable.

keep talking meso and friends. these things you are saying are important.

Leslie and all her Pixies

SOOOOO much i want to say but dare not because i'll be honest...i had a reaction to something earlier this evening and i don't feel right AND i've had a few glasses of wine.

What i will say is THANK YOU. You get it. It's nice and sad at the same time.

What i'll also say is let's go to the abuse forum and talk about this **** when we want to. We'll put trigger warnings and sentences at the beginning to warn people so we're not responsible for hurting others. We deserve to be able to talk. THEY made it hard on purpose. THEY created the madness. We must TELL. They said we'd die or they'd kill others if we told...F them!

ok, um...i scared so i stop but i just wanna say i really appreciate that i are understood. i mean, wow.

WOW

meso, i'm glad you understood what i was trying to say. it is nice and sad too.

it is ok for us to go slow until you feel safe. i am willing to try to go to abuse and talk and like you say. we will warn them and then we can talk.

just one warning. sometimes i am freer and then sometimes i lock up and freeze. i don't want to hurt you or anyone and sometimes i get free and promise a lot and then i get bound up and can't fulfill my words. so we can agree to try and to be ok if we make mistakes. it's very hard to be us and communicate all the time, sometimes the words fly out and other times there's an invisible gag that chokes the words down inside. we don't ever do that on purpose.

so feel free to write when you feel ready and able and we can pm if you want.

sending a hug and acceptance,

leslie and pixies

i'm exactly the same way!!! i just wrote that to another friend!!! i have the same fears of over-extending and then not being able to maintain that degree (can't say another word cuz it's related fkn). It is OK. OMW...we need this. It's ok if not able to say, maintain, do anything...only as able. Only as able.

I would like to add it is not fair for us to retraumatize our own systems as well as ourselves.

This is dangerous ground to walk on...have you ever thought that maybe, just a tiny little MAYBE in the back of your head that if you heard other stuff that your parts could blame what you remember on contagion?

Just a thought.
M.I.A.

i respect your opinion and thank you so much for sharing it. You make a good point and have valid concerns. i can only answer them for myself just as others will need to examine the issues for themselves.

My view is that each person needs to decide for themselves whether they are ready to read, write, or talk with someone about their experiences--whether they're related to ritual abuse or not. In the past i worried about contaminating my memories and i avoided any and all discussions, articles, etc. i did that for about 15 years. Knowing i went through it but not daring to look at it. As maddening as that was--to have extended this nightmare that long--i respect that i either couldn't do anything differently or i had a therapist that was way too timid. i'll go with it being on me. i still avoid details like the plague sometimes. Other times, i'm desperate to know i'm not alone, i'm not insane, i'm not making this up. i've not found myself taking on other people's experiences in any other venue of my life, including emotional, physical, sexual, and spiritual abuse so, really, the fear that i might take on ritual abuse memories that aren't mine is most likely based in survival tactics. It's probably easier to think i claimed experiences that weren't mine than to admit they really happened to me. When i was ready, i looked at the LA Women's Task Force on Ritual Abuse report. i found a lot of the things my mind kept hammering me with. i also found a lot of things i hadn't thought of. i've not since taken those things on as my own.

As for it being unfair to ourselves and/or our systems...i'm myself and i'm a part of my system so what i want and need are just as relevant as what other parts need. i don't think it serves me or my system to push it away for the rest of my life. i've been doing that even when i don't want to and all it seems to be doing is prolonging my pain. What's more...i'm a stubborn one. They said i can't tell. i refuse to live by their rules. Don't let the bastards win is my motto. If anything, i think it would be better if my system could lay it all out so we could all see the truth for what it is and deal with it.

On another note, i had asked for a sub forum for r.a. and it was suggested to me that i just start a social group on the topic because i appear to be the only one interested in this stuff. Well...i'm NOT the only one and i'm not happy that i'm perceived as the only one. What does that imply? i feel quite marginalized...misunderstood...delusional...tsk tsk boy she's off isn't she?

The world doesn't believe me. How can it when no one tells?

MeSO, I agree with you in all this. I'vew read tons of stuff about SRA and it hasn't fazed me one bit. mine involved the freemasons. There were som aspects that were the same, but mostly not. However, I've not been allowed to recall very much. those who spoke got silenced on the inside.
Maybe if anyone who wishes a RA sub forum should put in a request, then they'll know you are not alone and I know you are not! Shall we lobby?

Well...i don't want to be a rabble rouser (i don't even know what that means! lol) but whatever anyone wants to do (or not do) is fine with me. i'm not sure i understand the response i received because in one part it seems to say sure but in another part it says normally we need multiple requests, how about starting a social group for it...(i'm paraphrasing). So we'll see what happens. i thought i wrote about this already but i can't find it.

To anyone: i would not want anyone forcing themselves to participate in any discussion, share something they're not comfortable sharing, or read something they're not comfortable reading. i accept trigger warnings are limited--we know something could be triggering but are drawn like moths to flames regardless sometimes. i, again, say to each her or his own. My own capabilities for sharing my experiences and receiving others' is limited and fluxuates all the time. One minute i KNOW and the next i don't.

We're all caring people. i just think we're taking on more of a load than we need to when it comes to protecting others. That doesn't mean i don't care. i'm the same way. i will (and do) feel awful when i know something i've said triggers someone else. At the same time i also know i'm not the cause of those triggers and reactions. The people who injured us are responsible.

i'll wait a bit to see what comes out of this. i feel funny about starting a social group even though i understand those are just words. i may just post in the abuse forum with an ample trigger warning. We'll see. i sure don't want to hurt anyone...i just thought this was a place to let it out.

*i'm not feeling comfortable about my communication skills at the moment so if i've come across poorly i apologize.

I think you articulated your thoughts very well, and I, for one, mirror them. Miri

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{meso}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

meso,

the idea of starting a social group on the topic of r.a. sounds like a contradiction in terms!!!!!!!! a "social group" is people who get togethr to have a pleasant time chatting or playing fun games.... i can't imagine anything Less pleasant than the topic of r.a.

a subforum of r.a. would be survivors meeting to share experiences, strength and hope as a group of people doing their best to get past the most awful years of their lives.

i think a subforum would be a good idea and i also know we would have to be careful to let people know that they must enter on their own responsibility. no one can keep us safe except ourselves. this is an intense and awful subject but all of us who experienced it are trying to get better and get well. we can use all the support and help that we can come by!!!

i do not know who all would want to participate in a group on r.a., but i do know that all of us who went through this kind of abuse are some of the loneliest, saddest people in the world. we had our childhoods ruined by sick, evil people and we just want the pain and fear to be healed and stopped.

Leslie, speaking for all the pixies

I third this idea of a subforum. I think it would be helpful for an alter who is having a hard time right now. She just doesn't understand she doesn't have to be what they told her to be and she has really made it difficult for the alters who have been able to do a lot of healing.

So how does one go about starting one?
Talk to a moderator?
have a poll?

Help.
Thanks