[Shangrala]

Ok.
Here we are....My hub is trying to get answers out of me regarding how this marriage can be fixed.

He is insisting that I provide him answers, which I simply cannot do. I have none which satisfy him.....they are the 'wrong' answers....regardless what I provide...they are not the 'right' ones.

He wants me to make a post here..asking you all advice on what he should do, (he will not post for himself...again...something he needs to do for self, yet relies on me to do for him).
So...ok. I'm doing just that....Making a post on his behalf in order to maybe provide him a reply, (from any of you as I simply cannot give it to him).

Keep in mind that I am not angry whatsoever. I am at a loss with anything that he is seeking. We are aware of the emotional positions that each of us are in at present....yet, I am not capable of providing him the answers he seeks.

Basic rundown, (and I'll attempt to make this as short as possible):

Been married going on 13 years now. Were together 2 years prior. Have 1 daughter, born a year before we got married.
I was friends to him and his wife a # of years before she died tragically.
I moved in with him months after her sudden death, to help with his kids, and him to cope with their loss. He and I became emotionally involved months after that, (unforeseen).
I devoted myself to their care, with hopes that it would help them to ease her passing. What happened between us as a result was not intended.

Spent the following years raising his kids from his first, and contending to our own.
Early on, overlooking the fact that he never had the time to grieve her passing whatsoever. Denial of his loss of her took a toll on what we tried to construct. I guess we never had a chance at anything substancial. I didn't see it then, but that didn't stop me from attempting to build it, anyway.
We never had our own beginning, so to speak. I stepped in filling a void of his present...and we went on from there. Although, I was determined to try, anyway.
The verbal abuse started only months after our involvement began. He wasn't abusive before we became emotionally involved.
He was picking up where he left off with his first wife. He conducted himself basically the same way....HOWEVER...initially, SHE was the abuser..the aggressive-negative force in their relationship. While, his responses were to try to maintain the peace.
I can remember telling his wife to stop with her abusiveness toward him.
She was so very mean...not only to him, but her kids, as well.

It seems that his behavior toward me was only a continuation of where his emotional status was then..though, I can't be certain of that. It's just my speculation.

The abuse progressed from occassional verbal to daily verbal and a few times physical. Anyway...years passed. His kids grown and left home, leaving only our daughter to raise. It became just the 3 of us.

I tolerated his abuse for 7 years. Tried everything in my power to make the marriage work. I was alone in it. He was in his own world for 7 years.
Sometime within those years, I slowly began to let go emotionally.
I saw it coming. Pleaded with him to help me help us BEFORE I let go. To no avail. I reached my breaking point.I gave up. Fell into a deep depression....something that I have NEVER experienced before. Scared the living hell out of me...cuz..somehow, I knew that once I let go....I wasn't just letting go of the marriage...I was letting go of myself, too.

Ok...so..I've let go....That was about 4 years ago. Took an entire year for hub to even realize that I had, in fact, let go.......
Once he finally realized it...THEN he decides to put effort into salvaging us. And he did try. Still is trying.
I love him, sure. But I have nothing left to provide him at this point.

I know he is trying so hard, but...I'm not even sure why...I'm not responsive whatsoever. It has gotten to the point where I encouraged him to seek out companionship with another because I felt guilty for knowing that I'm presently incapable of giving him ANYTHING. I'm completely numb.
He has found another realationship..however, it is only filling in his void, once again. What goes on between them is their business, and I care not to know about it. I'm not harsh about it. In fact, I think he deserves it. For what it's worth, I don't want him hurting, especially because of me....even though he has been the cause of my present issues that I am having such difficulty with.

He has asked me if there is ever a chance between us to reconsile our marriage.
Marriage counselling is out of the question now, as I don't want it for US. Although, I would like for him to seek his own, so that he will, hopefully, come to terms with his issues (of past and present), and maybe find a sense of understanding within himself. Only he can fix his own owies. I've tried relentlessly, and failed terribly. NOT going there again.

When he asks me where I am emotionally....I can only reply with, "I cannot repair the damage while still within the wreck". Meaning....I believe I need to first remove myself entirely from here before I can actually view the full picture.

If it were up to me, I wouldn't even be posting this at all. I have a pretty good idea where we ARE and what we need to do from here.
When I told him that a seperation is in order, his first response was, "I can't afford a seperation". Clearly stating where his priorities STILL are..not on us. I understand that. Expect that. Accept that. It comes as no surprise to me whatsoever...and I don't care anymore.

He wants me to attend to our issues much in the way that I support many on this site. Not possible. He asked why I can't. My reply is, that I am not dealing with MY issues when I am attending to other's here. I am merely applying obtained knowledge to other's issues, and offering suggestions. That's all. That is easy.
I wish I could fix us. It's been long out of my hands and heart.

I suppose what hub is requesting from all of you is, in your opinion, what do you think he should do?

This ended up much longer than I intended, (but..lol...what else is new when regarding my posts).
I only hope it makes sense to you.

Appriciate your responses.

Thanks~

Shangrala

[horsecab]

I've never been a husband, but will give my knowledge and beliefs the best that I can. If there is nothing left to the marriage, he needs to come to terms with that and do some grieving for this marriage and yes, the past wife also. It doesn't make things easier to be involved with other people while you two are still married and have a connection between you like your daughter. Such relationships more often then not are simply emotional rescues and don't create a future healthy relationship with the new partner. There is still too much pain and frustration, and even feelings for the marriage split that a new partner simply medicates the pain much as drinking or drugging would do. I have heard plenty of talk shows say that after a divorce you need a period of time with seeing no one new. Time to grieve, and let go, and collect your thoughts, before you move on to someone new. I know life doesn't always work out that way, and it takes great discipline to control our need to feel better through the pain.
Any relationship entered into at any time is going to take a lot of work. But if that desire and willingness to work on it is not there, it must be accepted as such. You can't get back what is no longer there.

Here's a wish to happy future relationships for the both of you!

[Rapunzel]

Nobody can give and take equal part in a relationship until they have an individual identity or self. That's the problem I have in my marriage (19 years) - I wasn't ready at the beginning because I had never had the opportunity to grow up and to discover who I am. I wasn't able to really be alive without that, and haven't been able to get enough space within the relationship to do it now. His difficulties might very likely go back to before his first marriage. Filling in the empty space with another relationship keeps him from facing himself.

Every relationship does have two sides. What are you getting out of this, or what have you in the past, or what were you looking for at some point? What do you need now?

I'd also like to point out that relationship counseling, or individual counseling, doesn't always mean you are staying together. If going your seperate ways is best for you, then that is what will happen if you go to counseling. Counseling can still help both of you and your daughter to make it through this transition as smoothly as possible, and to discover what it is that all of you need and how you can all support each other, no matter what happens.

I was in a simlar situation for fifteen years, he wouldnt make an effort I begged him in the end I left.

He still thinks in the back of his head I will return even though I have re married and had another child. He is just waiting on the sideline.

He cant seem to understand that anything I had for the him is dead. He killed it over a period of years and now is too late to do anything about it.

Hugs to you I wish you well.

[jerrymichele]

Shangrala by the sounds of this, I think that you have already grieved over the relationship, and your husband hasn't. If you are telling your husband to get his needs else where, than in your mind it's completely over with. Shang's husband I think Shang is telling you to move on, because she is unable to give you what you need. Then if she was to stay in the relationship the both of you would not get your needs meet. She's trying to tell you that she is unable to fall in love with you again. If your wondering why she is in a different place then you, it's because she was where your at a while ago. Meaning that she has already grieved over the end of the relationship. Since your not into any kind of therapy you could read John Grey Books. He's that guy who write's Men are from Mars Woman are from Venus. I read a lot of these books to understand why I was going threw all the pain with my divorce. There is also a site on this, and it's just like Psych Central. I wish the both of you the best.

[AAAAA]

Shangrala,

Before I give my opinion on what I think your husband can do, I’d like to tell you that it is possible to come back from that emotional detachment and numbness that you speak of. About 7 or 8 years into our marriage I had completely given up on our marriage. We got married young and grew in different directions. I got to the point that I wasn’t angry anymore, I wasn’t hurt, I was just done. At the time I thought that there was nothing left what-so-ever, our relationship was dead. There was nothing to fight for, nothing to fix, it didn’t exist anymore. Once I accepted that, we split up for almost two years. A real split, with no expectations of reconciliation what-so-ever, no on again off again.

When we decided to “date” again, we didn’t pick up where we left off, that relationship was dead. We started a new one with the new me, and the new him. From scratch, nothing taken for granted, old wrongs were forgotten. We were cautious of course, looking for the other to fall into those patterns again, but we did not fall back into that routine of “you did blah blah blah in 1986” etc.

I think your husband should take some angry management classes or see a therapist about how to speak to people. Not in an effort to fix your marriage, but to become a better, healthier person. Abuse in any form is not acceptable.

In my opinion there should be a definite decision made. Are we together or are we not. This in the middle stuff isn’t fair to anyone involved. It takes two people to make a marriage work and if you’re both not dedicated to fixing it then there really isn’t any point. Being there physically but not mentally prevents both of you from healing and growing.

[Rmdctc]

If you feel you cannot fix the marriage then what you are saying is it is over with and you need to move on. To me that means getting a divorce or seperating. I would say you or he or both need to move out of the house and away from each other. A marriage is only a marriage if both are in it and it really doesnt matter why now it just needs to either be fixed or seperated. I wish you luck and to him I would say " move on already and let her go!!"

[Shangrala]

Originally Posted by AAAAA

Shangrala,

Before I give my opinion on what I think your husband can do, I’d like to tell you that it is possible to come back from that emotional detachment and numbness that you speak of. About 7 or 8 years into our marriage I had completely given up on our marriage. We got married young and grew in different directions. I got to the point that I wasn’t angry anymore, I wasn’t hurt, I was just done. At the time I thought that there was nothing left what-so-ever, our relationship was dead. There was nothing to fight for, nothing to fix, it didn’t exist anymore. Once I accepted that, we split up for almost two years. A real split, with no expectations of reconciliation what-so-ever, no on again off again.
When we decided to “date” again, we didn’t pick up where we left off, that relationship was dead. We started a new one with the new me, and the new him. From scratch, nothing taken for granted, old wrongs were forgotten. We were cautious of course, looking for the other to fall into those patterns again, but we did not fall back into that routine of “you did blah blah blah in 1986” etc.

I think your husband should take some angry management classes or see a therapist about how to speak to people. Not in an effort to fix your marriage, but to become a better, healthier person. Abuse in any form is not acceptable.

In my opinion there should be a definite decision made. Are we together or are we not. This in the middle stuff isn’t fair to anyone involved. It takes two people to make a marriage work and if you’re both not dedicated to fixing it then there really isn’t any point. Being there physically but not mentally prevents both of you from healing and growing.

Thanks so much. Your perception has offered me some valuable insight that I hadn't even thought about.
And yes, we never had our own beginning, which I always thought was quite bizarre. Never knew that sort of relationship could ever begin..from the middle.

I know for a fact that, if he had even attempted to try to deal with his own issues (present long before me, and ours resulting), when I offerd to help him, then I would not have given up. It was his constant placing of all blame on me,(including things which I had noting to do with, ones which were from his first), and the abuse that sent me to numbsvile.
I'm surprised I endured it as long as I had.

I can only hope that he will seek counseling as a result of all of this. And to be honest, it will be necessary if he ever wishes to have any hope of a reconciliation later. I'm not taking a chance of all his demons reappearing to haunt me again.

A seperation is in order...the divorce will be depending on how he takes care of his own issues, thereafter. I can only hope he will begin to treat himself as he wants me to treat him.

Thanks for your insight. It is very helpful.

Shangrala

I think the thing that made me actualy hate him was the way he wouldnt let go. In the end I had to leave the home with five children aged eleven months to 12 years old.

Even then he kept begging me to come back rather than let me have the house and him go !

It can turn to hatred very very fast in situations like this....

[Shangrala]

Originally Posted by Tishie

I think the thing that made me actualy hate him was the way he wouldnt let go. In the end I had to leave the home with five children aged eleven months to 12 years old.

Even then he kept begging me to come back rather than let me have the house and him go !

It can turn to hatred very very fast in situations like this....

Tish...I am soo sorry.....

Omg...YOU had to leave...WITH the kids?
What an a--hole!!!!...Sorry, but....damn! It's men like that, (and I've had my share of them, too), who make it so difficult for the nice ones to have a fair chance. As well as creating a hate within ourselves that we have to contend with, along with all the pressures and stress as a result, which can create an enourmously overwhelming amount of negative emotions.

They have no idea, (not that they care to), of what damage that thier selfishness really does.

There was a time when I believe my hubs could have easily fit that mold of your ex, but since I've let go, his intentions have seemed to have become more of a means of attempts toward salvaging what's left between us, (with hopes of preventing my leaving), but only as a means of preventing him from resulting in being left alone. I still don't feel it's because of ME....you know? I feel it is as it's always been...about him.

I also feel that, although the abuse has deminished a great deal, the scars are still there, regardless. And all it takes now is just one harmful name and I immediately go into shutdown mode, and I hear nothing from there on. That one, single name brings it ALL back...all those years of being told how useless, worthless, ugly, insignificant, a loser, a lousy mother, failure, (and all those cliche foul names that abusive men so love to use, which are, of course, incorporated in with all the other harmful verbal attacks).

I have tried so many times to explain to him how harmful the names are. But, I guess, because they don't "see" the wounds, they are not real.

I resent him, which that alone angers me, cuz it is NOT my nature to harbor negative thoughts....so, I am left alone to deal with that..(though I feel I'm doing better with..thank God for my natural optimism).

I don't hate hub. There is a good person in there. He conducts himself with great appreciation & respect for all other's...except for those who should matter most...me and our dot.

I just cannot carry his cross any longer. I will not carry it any longer. And it was ever since I stopped carrying it, that we fell apart, (of course, that was my fault, too).
Since, he has expressed the fact that he does see the error of his ways, and has devoted a great deal to changing that. But, as I've said, all it takes is just one slip of his by calling me one name and I'm emotionally sent right back to go again. It's like taking one step forward and ten back. I cannot progress this way. I cannot heal. And it is not fair to any of us.

When I look at him, (which I try not to, anymore), I see only a man who is struggling to correct the years of wrongfulness. I appreciate it, sure. I love him, of course..I always will. But, I do not feel the attraction that was once there. I don't necessarily see the past, but as soon as the yelling begins, (which is a daily routine...for whatever his reasons), I feel the past. I then, shutdown.
Over the years, how I was once an attentive, appreciative. and caring woman to this man has transformed into a blank, empty shell of a person. I do not display hatered or anger whatsoever. I do not display...anything. And for that, again, I am resentful. I now have developed this shield around me as a natural mean of protection, (something absolutely new to me). Now, I am left with the task of learning how to demolish that shield.
I don't want to NOT be receptive of others, even if an arguement arrises. There are ways of attending to arguements to where they can be controlled to a discussion, instead. However, so long as I have this subconscious shield around me, which immediately goes up the first sound of yelling, I am cheating myself out of a fair chance of directing whatever conflict I will have confrontations with. I don't want that. I want ME again....and sadly, I simply cannot find her here...she's long since left.

There is a chance that hub and I may overcome all this. And, I don't like the fact of placing all the responsibility on the "one or the other", as it takes two to make it work. But, in this case, the long term fate of this marriage IS in his hands, now. And, I sort of already know where that will lead us...(although, I understand that miracles do happen). We'll see.

Take care Tishie...

Shangrala

[jerrymichele]

Tishie first let me say that you did the right thing by leaving him. I also have got to tell you that your a strong person to leave a house with all your kids like that. He really did showed his true colors when he couldn't even leave the house for you and the kids. Shang I do agree with you. Abuse is abuse. I was in a relationship with physical and verbal abuse. Once those scars are there, they never go away. It's like you can't be yourself around that person because any little thing can trigger him off. (or her) A person who is abusive needs help. Until they can get treated for it, and realize what is going on with their anger, then IMO it's useless to believe they will change. Let me also just say that when this relationship ended it took me a very, very long time to realize other men wasn't like that. I was dating other guys and if they just showed a little bit of anger than I would shut down, and I was frightened. The only thing good that came out of this, is that when I see or I'm around an angry man, I know to get away from him quick.

[Shangrala]

Originally Posted by jerrymichele

Tishie first let me say that you did the right thing by leaving him. I also have got to tell you that your a strong person to leave a house with all your kids like that. He really did showed his true colors when he couldn't even leave the house for you and the kids. Shang I do agree with you. Abuse is abuse. I was in a relationship with physical and verbal abuse. Once those scars are there, they never go away. It's like you can't be yourself around that person because any little thing can trigger him off. (or her) A person who is abusive needs help. Until they can get treated for it, and realize what is going on with their anger, then IMO it's useless to believe they will change. Let me also just say that when this relationship ended it took me a very, very long time to realize other men wasn't like that. I was dating other guys and if they just showed a little bit of anger than I would shut down, and I was frightened. The only thing good that came out of this, is that when I see or I'm around an angry man, I know to get away from him quick.

Agreed, Michele~

Abuse IS abuse. No matter the form or who from.
Change has to come from first realizing there is a problem, seeking a source to guide to understanding, then applying the changes necessary to resolve the initial cause = Path to Healing + Health & Happiness.

Your experience, and how YOU have resulted from it has proved a perfect case in point that there is good to be found in something bad.
I'm happy for you for that you are able to overcome the negative and obtain the positive from your experience. You are fortunate as that can be quite difficult for many. You are a strong person for enduring and overcoming the devistating negative odds.

I imagine that for sometime to come, the red warning flag will be present for me, as well. But I know that because of the person I am, that that red will eventually fade, allowing me to view through the calm yellow of caution.

Stay strong, Michelle...

Shangrala

[Rmdctc]

how are things?

[eskielover]

My initial comment is one that I have experienced myself....I was 22 when I got married, in the process of getting my degree (which I did accomplish). I went from living at home with parents & the values I had developed, to being married....living with my husband who I found out I didn't respect his valued before we got married, & it went into the way I wasn't willing to allow him to control any part of my life once we were married......What a mess that turned out to be.....led to a lot of fighting. We stuck together for 33 years however about year 26, I moved out for a few months & when I came back, went into my own part of he house & wouldn't have anything more to do with him. I still believe that marriage is marriage & there is no taking on outside relationships......no matter what. But the fact was that he had never grown up & never understood financial responsibility. I had values that I ended up letting slide when it came to finances & we both had our careers....stupid on my part.

He was a nice guy......but his values were just all messed up & he never knew how to be responsible financially.....decided that he didn't have to do anything in the marriage that he wasn't good at which was only going to work & bringing money home.....like I couldn't do that & ended up having to do everything else.....with a battle when he didn't like it.

The bottom line was that he never knew who he was or what real values he needed to have to really survive in this world....We have a daughter after year 2 of the marriage....another sore subject in the marriage as he thought I would just put my degree on hold.....that meant war & an overreaction on my part since I had gone into the marriage letting him know that under no conditions would that happen.

Many years we stayed together because we couldn't financially afford to separate or divorce.....even now we can't afford to divorce, but when my Mother died, I took my money & made my own life moving across the country. Best thing I ever did. I finally had a chance to know myself & get my values back in place. I was able to get back in touch with my religion & it has become the center of my life....seeing where my real values all along were there with my religion, but they had become too materialistic as I got caught up in my husband's values rather than my own.

Sounds like you both have done a lot of mistakes in your lives also.....as we all do. Sometimes it becomes necessary to just get out of where we are......separate completely & rediscover the self we have lost over the years. Your husband never getting through the loss of his wife & never having to become responible for himself & his children.....your swooping in there to be the guardian angel feeling bad for the children......all not good things to base a relationship on before everything needed to be sorted out on his part. Sometimes our best intentions aren't really the best thing to do in reality.

Under no circumstances does anyone have to go outside the marriage to get their needs met.....they can live without those needs being met...nothing in the world says it's a requirement in life to have those needs met......it only adds to messing up things worse.......& making a larger can of worms you end up dealing with.

I think when you first had problems, the separation should have happened then, giving each a chance to learn who you were.....being that didn't happen, it only created deeper sores that probably will never be healed. However, all things are possible....

I think the only chance there is of anything being solved is to separate & have each of you take several years to figure out where exactly you are with yourselves. Only then can you see if there is anything really there between you when you have spent the time alone. I have found that I would never go back to living with anyone let alone going back to my husband.....at least now I can have a civil phone conversation without yelling at the smallest thing he says......I would never go back to living with him, but at least I don't dislike him the way I did. He knew every button to push & loved pushing them just because. It was the best & only right thing I did in the marriage was to leave. We both realize that now too. He wasn't willing to make the changes necessary for the marriage to work, but he didn't want the marriage to end even though it had ended years before I left. We will never be able to afford to get divorced...too much debt that is sitting around not able to be dealt with...huge medical bills & a few CC debt in collection he foolishly didn't know how to handle when I lost my career. Can't afford to sell the house because of the lower value....would loose everything we have & would come out with nothing & no money to live on......so better for him to have that house & me have mine. He doesn't have his career anymore either, so no money. He can't spend what he doesn't have so I don't worry too much about his doing something stupid anymore.

Sadly, he didn't know how to be a partner in the marriage.....he didn't know how to be a husband either......& he really didn't know how to be a person with any common sense.....not at all the kind of person I needed to be married to & have any feelings for.....can't love someone I don't respect.....

We all need to know ourselves before ever taking ourselves into any relationships.....sadly, too many people say "love is blind" only to become unblind a few years later & see the person they really married. We have to see up front who they are & we need to live only with what is reality.....now what we pretend reality to be.....only then can there really be a true successful loving relationship that....which is what a marriage then can be based on. It has nothing to do with sex..it has everything to do with just liking to be around the person for who they are.

Hope this can give some ideas of what is needed to be done......one never really does know when they separate.....they might just find that after they know themselves, that they really do belong together.....but you never know if you don't know yourself first.

Best wisher for your future....both of you.
Debbie

[Shangrala]

Hi All~

Thanks for all of your replies. I appreciate it.
I printed it all out, gave it to hub, allowed him time to read it all and received the response that I knew he'd give....Negative and defensive.

There is something that I need to correct. I made a comment in my reply (#10), which I need to clarify, as it is not accurate.
I really don't even know why I said it....maybe I was hoping ....hell, I don't really know why I said this:

"There is a chance that hub and I may overcome all this. And, I don't like the fact of placing all the responsibility on the "one or the other", as it takes two to make it work. But, in this case, the long term fate of this marriage IS in his hands, now. And, I sort of already know where that will lead us...(although, I understand that miracles do happen). We'll see".

~ There ISN'T a chance that we will overcome this!
~ The fate is NOT in his hands!

Maybe...I put it there trying to fool ...whomever...I don't know. I honestly don't know. I apologize.

However.....
~ Miracles DO happen. But the miracle I'm hoping for is that I get out of this as soon as I can with the least bit of his interference....and that I will survive this quickly...(as I already suspect I will).

I'm sorry for misleading any of you....NOT my intentions.
Again...I have no idea why I even included that.

Shangrala

[Rapunzel]

Maybe a part of you wasn't quite ready to admit that it was over. It is no easy thing.

[sunrise]

Shangrala, my overwhelming thought as I read your posts was that I hope you will go see a therapist yourself. You sound numb, withdrawn, and hurting. A lot. With a caring therapist to help, you can find life and hope "on the other side."

I also want to second what Rapunzel wrote: you can still go to couples counseling even if your intention is to split up. My therapist called it "uncoupling therapy". It can be emotionally very difficult to separate, and when there are kids involved, a therapist can help both of you keep motivated to do what is best for your kids (by that I don't mean stay together, but how to separate with the kids' best interests at heart).

One of the best things I did was go to couples counseling when my H and I were splitting up. Because of that, we are now able to communicate well and co-parent as a team. Our kids are doing great.

Good luck.

[Shangrala]

Originally Posted by sunrise

Shangrala, my overwhelming thought as I read your posts was that I hope you will go see a therapist yourself. You sound numb, withdrawn, and hurting. A lot. With a caring therapist to help, you can find life and hope "on the other side."

I also want to second what Rapunzel wrote: you can still go to couples counseling even if your intention is to split up. My therapist called it "uncoupling therapy". It can be emotionally very difficult to separate, and when there are kids involved, a therapist can help both of you keep motivated to do what is best for your kids (by that I don't mean stay together, but how to separate with the kids' best interests at heart).

One of the best things I did was go to couples counseling when my H and I were splitting up. Because of that, we are now able to communicate well and co-parent as a team. Our kids are doing great.

Good luck.

Thanks, sunrise, truly.
I agree with Rap, as well...thing is, hub is the type of man who believes that counseling is a sign of weakness, (although we all know that his fears, for whatever his reasons, are the true reason behind his not wanting therapy).
What I find sadly amuzing is the fact how hub always reminds me how things can change between us.....so long as I "shape up and just change already"...lmao.
And yes.....Numb I am....very. The thought of becoming numb scared the hell out of me at first, but now it seems to be my savior...prevents me from hurting anymore, which I need...even though it isn't the correct approach.
The only drag about becoming as numb as I have is how I now have to "undo" or "untrain" myself from closing off to what affects me. I've noticed that my barrier has become so high and so thick that little seems to penetrate anymore....regarding many other things now....NOT healthy, and I know this.

Couple therapy sounds great....just not possible for hub n self.
I have full intentions of beginning therapy, (for self and daughter), once I've relocated and settled. I really miss me.

I'm glad to hear that you've managed to acquire what good there is to be had in couple counseling and especially, that your kids are the better for it. No child should have to suffer as the result from parent issues.

Thanks again~

Shangrala

[Shangrala]

Update:

Yesterday...as I'm sitting here, staring at my screen into the forums, attempting to respond to a thread......
Hub approaches me..all lovey & supportive (ewww. makes me cringe)..begins to tell me that I need to begin to find happiness....even if for myself....even if meaning I need to leave to obtain it.
I know that already. Intend TO obtain that BY leaving. Thing is, I know he doesn't mean that. He might talk big, but backing his words is next to impossible, (it never happens), and when the time does come for me to leave, I know he will be just the opposite.

I've even told him not to tell me things he doesn't mean, (as he's done this before), and it seems as soon as I begin to listen, it's as though he ambushes me...baits me to see if I am listening....and once he realizes I really am, THEN turns it back against me.
This push & shove maneauver of his has taught me to become numb to anything he says anymore.
I just wish, he really meant what he said.....TO find my OWN real happiness, regardless.

Well, come the last week of this month. I guess that's when I will really see just how meaningful his words really are, as I AM leaving then.
Sigh. I do not look forward to this leaving because of the possible friction, but excited to leave behind this travisty that has been going on far too long now.

Anyhow....just thought I'd update this...not sure why, (talking to self, I guess...lol).

Shangrala

[Rapunzel]

Thanks for sharing your story. It's encouraging to see you sticking to what you know that you need to do, and making a better life for yourself.

Was thinking of you and wondered how it is for you at the moment....