[pachyderm]

This might be triggering for some. It triggers ME.

I remember the HATRED I felt from my mother. She used to say she "despised" us when we "whined", and otherwise displayed fear. I really felt that she would like to see us, or at least me, dead. She backed up her words physically, so as to make it seem more likely to me that she would carry out her wishes. And it seemed to me that the rest of the world wanted me dead too. My brothers, living in much of the same environment, had themselves to protect. No one would intervene in any way. No one would speak of what was happening. No one would listen.

When you are a victim, as a child at least, you broadcast to others your victim status. And with the present state of society, and certainly as it was when I was a child, instead of a caring and healing response, a victim stands a good chance of being further victimized. Other people, both children and adults, perceive and fear you as a victim, because it arouses their own fears, and they would rather have you suffer more than that it should happen to them. There seems to be an instinct to avoid and isolate any person seen as damaged or sufficiently "different" than anyone else.

These instincts have their advantages from an evolutionary point of view. They tend to weed out weakness, there being a natural selection of the "strong" so that the surviving population has fewer "defects" than would otherwise be the case. And the process is "automatic" -- requiring no thought to accomplish. "Thinking" in order to meet dangers seems not as clearly a stable process as instinctual reactions. Herds provide safety of a kind, for the herd as a whole if not necessarily for individuals, and that is the function of evolution. In Greek history "thinking" versus "instincts" might be likened to the Athenian versus Spartan approaches to life. And Athens failed. (But so did Sparta.)

Today we have a choice between automatic, self-actualizing methods such as instinctual coping with problems, or trying to understand and heal them. I think maybe the single benefit (?) that "Western" culture has brought to humanity is "science," from the Latin "scientia" -- which means knowledge (according to Wikipedia). Knowing (or trying to know) of things as they are, not as we would wish them to be. Understanding of how things work, so we can more adequately cope with them. Is it better than instinct? It is certainly more scary.

So now I am remembering more the fears, the absolute panic that I had as a child, of feeling that my mother wanted us dead. Like the witch mother of Christine Ann Lawson's book Understanding The Borderline Mother. Although I recognize others of Lawson's mother types in my own mother, the one that stands out the most is the Witch. And of course now I know that the witch is within me too. I try to understand both. But it is very frightening. I wish there were an easier way to heal than this, but maybe lancing the pus reservoir is the only way to go.

How many of you "knew" that you were "despised" by one or more of your parents? How many felt that you were hated? How many received a warm and healing response from others in society? How many receive it now? How much understanding of the processes by which people get damaged, and how to heal as much of the damage as possible, do you find?

[Fuzzybear]

I was hated by a relative, the parents were indifferent.

[VoNPD]

I was hated by my father, but I think despised is too harsh. I was a 'surprise' baby and I believe dad felt I screwed up his plans for saving money. I guess I was more of a dissapointment to him because I did not bend to his irrational will. His last coherent words on earth were to me to tell me how I was such a dissappointment. In my teenage years I did feel hated by him.

I recieved a harsh and manipulating response from society. Still do, but now I don't let it stop me from creating my own kinder reality.

I have come to an understanding that people can become damaged. My father was damaged by his mother. But were I to give in and accept 'damaged' in my life, I would have no hope. I have to strive to heal the broken child within. This creates a more stable adult. I don't find it, so I create it.

Thank you for this thread! I had been dwelling on the above before I saw the post - freaky!

VoN

[jefftele]

both my parents have a pd my father wished i'd not been born, my mother was so wrapped up in herself she wasn't available to anyones needs but her own.he was a bully who picked on me , beneath my fear and hatred of him, i so wished for him to love me, i didn't realise this till i was in my 30's my life has been an uphill battle, struggling with depression, low self esteem, anti social behaviour ,choosing destructive relationships.even though i have done lots of healing on myself ,i still struggle with living ,i put my struggles firmly at both my parents feet, i don't see myself as a victim, but as a survivor ,my quest for self acceptance and healing goes on

what is the difference between a victim and a survivor? I cant focus on this question, your story is similar to mine jeffetele, my parent had me and mum never loved dad, she abused me emotionally and occasionally sexually, dad was indifferent and he too could be a bully, he threw a wooden clog type thing at my head once because he was angry with my mother.

I supose I ama survivor cos I'm still here, tips on trying to heal would be gratefully received, I am in therapy.

Jinny xx

[pachyderm]

> what is the difference between a victim and a survivor?

I don't obsess over words; as you say, if you are here now you are a survivor. I guess I was a victim as a child.

> tips on trying to heal would be gratefully received

By me too! I am in therapy also and I guess just keep trying to remember and understand and believe you are worth something, rather than hating one's self...

[jefftele]

i don't want to hijack this post, so i'll quickly say what i think is a victim/survivor. as children we were victims ,we were dependent on our caregivers for our survival ,as adults we have to do our best to be aware of the messages of the past, especially the negative ones i hate the word victim given so popularly by 'experts' to people struggling to make sense of their own lives, i much prefer the term survivor. someone asked me last week do i think we ever heal our wounds? my answer- i don't know. i think it has to do with the acceptance of love in our lives ,firstly from ourselves- the hard bit, love from the creator ,whoever /whatever 'it' is, good friends and forums like these

[spal]

Pachyderm, I just came upon your post by chance. I find it very wise. I am copying it to think about it. Why indeed are victims victimized? It is the paradox of our society. Thank you for giving me something profound to think about.

[pachyderm]

[nowheretorun]

pachyderm, i also just came across this post... hope i can keep up with it.. hits home for me also.. my mom had a victimized life of her own, suppose it is as ive been told many times before... a hand-me-down life..

i coping with it... but jeez... sometimes...

thanks for this post.. intelligent and brings issues in the open... dialogue is what helps me... at times, no, most of my life was in isolation... this really helps...

You can't imagine how many times I've read and re-read this post and wanted to reply....... but..... didn't know just how to put into words my experience and feelings about having a borderline mother.

It was so hard and still is-- as she has hated me one minute and then reveered me the next. to this day I have anxiety with others--- never sure if they hate me and then wonder if they like me, all within a few minutes!!(if they say they like me it's only a matter of time before they despise me).... lately-- I've tried doing a "present check"-- meaning: that is then with her and this is now with another person that is NOT her. (though, I'm not very good at this "present checking" yet. ) Also the secret-physical abuse and then others admiring her for such admirable "motherly" qualities!! makes a young one feel insane!! not knowing how to think- which is the REAL picture??!!

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
How many of you "knew" that you were "despised" by one or more of your parents? How many felt that you were hated?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> I think I knew all along that I was not what my mother wanted-- but-- being I'm quite accomplished at denial- -- I convinced myself otherwise and tried with all my 6 year old, 8 year old, 12 year old etc... etc... might, to reach the level that I felt would make me acceptable and lovable. I couldn't see that that level was unreachable. I blamed it on myself EVERY time! argh!!!

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
How many received a warm and healing response from others in society?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Almost all were not warm and understanding when I was little. Was told by some parents that their children couldn't play with me-- coz I was unbathed. (was very unkempt, but I didn't know better) Other parents used unkind words and some teachers too.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
How many receive it now?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> I tried in my early adult years to get warmth and healing from others-- family, acquintances even my SO. Found I was knocking on an empty house though. until I shared some things and reached out to a therapist -- then I felt in their expression, the warmth I'd been searching for....... however, then........ those old re-runs start a playin -- "sure they like you now-- but tomorrow they will hate you..... you know how it works!!" *sigh*..... so, I leave the therapist before they can push me away. I can never be sure that what they say-- is really real!

I am just now understanding the process of the damage that was done.... there is so so much though to understand and work through.....
How to heal that damage is something I can't see, hold or get my head around. so-- once again-- I'm entering the therapy realm...... maybe this time I'll find some healing and know how to cope with the memories and also the current dysfunctions that go around and around in my birth family-- and that also re-play in my mind.

I appreciate your post and hope that you will find healing and compassion in your journey.

pachyderm-

mandy

oops-- edited for mispelling your name--so sorry!

oh yea, I also forgot to mention how confused one can get when mother shoplifts and then as a child, you feel it might be OK to try it just once, but she catches you-- YOU then are the awful bad horrible child. and know you will NEVER do that ever again and you don't, and are so so sorry. ....

she is so restless.... nervous..... moving constantly.....going out....having friends over in which her children are the subject of ridicule and jokes..... her constant "movement" churns and disturbs my opposing calm quiet sea.

I struggle to feel comfortable with people and find I don't do so well when others "joke" with me.

mandy

[pachyderm]

> It was so hard and still is-- as she has hated me one minute and then reveered me the next.

I think that is absolutely typical of at least some borderline mothers. Their emotions are very unstable; they are extremely insecure, and present a wildly different picture from one time to another, or from one person to another. Like some of their children (me, for instance at times) !

Take a look at the book "Understanding the Borderline Mother", by C.A. Lawson. I only gave it a three out of five (I tend to be critical), but it's still definitely worth a read.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Take a look at the book "Understanding the Borderline Mother", by C.A. Lawson. I only gave it a three out of five (I tend to be critical), but it's still definitely worth a read.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Thank you-- I will next time I go to the library.

I've only read one book on this subject-- "Stop walking on eggshells"...... and saw A LOT of my mother in there. I found it somewhat helpful in that I blamed myself a little less--not that I put all the blame on her either-- just helped me to better understand the whole picture. So, yes I will go search for that other book--
thank you again.

mandy

[AlteredState01]

Being a borderline, I am glad I took away my ability to have children before I had any.

Here's to doing something right!

[bebop]

my mom had some kind of disorder but never diagnosed. I know she hated me by the treatment she gave me all my life. even while she was laying in the funeral home someone else asked an aunt of mine why she hated me so much. I guess others had seen it but were afraid to ask questions while she was alive. yesterday was her birthday and I still miss her. strange huh? every girl needs a mothers love.

[SingleGirl]

(raises hand)

Yup.

Except...not past tense... current... still going through it. Just tonight, she went off again... it's totally predictable.

For all of my years of trying to understand, and my years of professional experience and education, I didn't accept my parents for what they were until I found a messageboard (not sure if it's ok to post a link, so PM me if you are interested)

It was there that I realized... oh crap, I'm not alone. Other people have been through this... these 100 people understand and get it... wow.

So, that was the first step to healing that I truly experienced... and I've worked from there. I haven't read the books, however, b/c I don't like lingo. It's just a personal thing and I have nothing against them... people have recommended all the books mentioned here before... but I'm ok with understanding things through my own lens for now

I have a fairly good understanding of how people get damaged, I have extreme sensitivity to changes in human behavior/emotion, I am still constantly hypervigilant, I am an expert crisis counselor b/c I've been talking down my parents for 27 years... there are some positive aspects to what I've been through...

There are negatives, severe negatives... I totally dissociate... not into multiples... just into the inner me and outer me. I give people pieces... never trust anyone with the whole. I expect everyone I tell about the abuse to run away. I asked for help for the first time senior year of high school and they called me a liar and said "honors students aren't abused"

That was the hardest part... the dichotomy... people w/borderline personality disorder can smooth things over in their life and look normal... it isn't pervasive like so many other mental illnesses... it can be held at bay and unleashed where it counts... at home...

No one I grew up with knows what I went through... maybe 1 person, b/c my sister married him, but probably not even him because I spent years shielding her from a good deal of parents' crazy.

The abuse I suffered was very severe, my mother was/is a master manipulative and could be horribly cruel emotionally and physically... My father never laid a hand on me, but he let her abuse me and he was just as emotionally abusive on his own terms...

I don't even really tell my therapists about my mom... so many are quick to judge... quick to point out that childrens of borderline often have borderline... or at least borderline traits... I've worked hard to temper my parents' influence on my personality... i have stayed out of long term relationships, i have distanced myself from close friends, i move from job to job... all in a conscious effort to not get in a situation where i might not be able to regulate my emotions

ok, clearly this was triggering for me... i've been back in the home with these people and it's beenm ore challenging than anything in my life, they are getting old and passing on and i find myself thinking horrible things and then feel guilty for thinking those things and it's just a horrible cycle of self-abuse... even when they are nice, i'm still abusing me... perhaps even moreso when they are nice b/c I start to question whether or not it's all my fault, all in my head, if i'm the one with the issues...

from society, I have had a great life, no better or worse than anyone else's outside of my family... the most frustrating thing for me is that people see me as "put together" "on the ball" "smart as a whip"... ugh... there's nothing to make me fracture like someone telling me that they envy me... ha...i also have MAJOR difficulties with school, major PTSD surrounding it b/c of what happened when i asked for help before leaving for college... I can't get close to professors, can't trust them, have had some very bad experiences but only b/c I put myself in a position to be passed over/used...

ok, no, ammendment, the real worst part is how much I love my parents and how pathetic it is that I still look to them to love me like other people's paernts love them... do you know how hard it's been to sit through father's day and hear people on tv list the things they remember their dad teaching them...

i sat and tried to remember my parents teaching me anything... i couldn't remember anything except learning to read... know how they did that? made me sit on the toilet in my panties and wouldn't let me move until i erad... for hours and hours... and i wasn't allowed to pull down my panties and had to pee through them...

humiliating... and i still hate to read...

i learned how to cook on my own, tie my shoes at school, makeup from friends, i still don't know how to braid hair or make a bed, i learned so much all by myself and it's put me so far behind where other people my age are right now... it's like i started at zero when i left for college...

on the off chance anyone is still reading, sorry for losing it but thank goodness you started the topic, wow, I'm a mess...

going to end on a positive note... my parents did teach me that I was no better than anyone else, sometimes by reminding me I'm worthless... but also with a genuine sense of community and them doing the best they could to be good people... I was raised to never assume what someone else is going through... to listen with an open ear and give with an open heart and no expectations...

so there, i may not know how to take care of my skin, check tire pressure, or pick out a formal dress... but i do know how to approach the world with the intention of meeting people where they are... and that's invaluable

thanks again

[pachyderm]

Tire pressure is pretty easy. The others... ?