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Something has been on my mind the past few days...

The habit of comparing our traumas to those of others. It's a tough habit to break; comparing then always thinking ours is less...not as bad, etc..
Wouldn't a sign of progress be when we are able to stop thinking "they had it worse" and be, "I'm sorry they went through so much...I know how that feels?"
It would be just a bit of a morph to understand the nuance behind that, jmo/jme. One little step away from being a victim and one step closer to I am a survivor.
After survivor--Thriver.

Thoughts everyone?

In Peace

Quite a thought Catherine........
On a good day, I can grasp that. I can empathize and not compare...understand and not judge either the other or myself......

on most days lately, it seems that my life was a picnic in the park with sunshine and a "good" family......
others are so sad and share such horrific parts of their lives. Such awful things were done to them that i can only imagine.......

I have talked to T about this. She then gives a "reader's digest condensed version" of what she has been told over the last few yrs and says "it was NOT a picnic."

I feel sometimes I want to "play the compare my stuff to your stuff game" and then go silent because i don't want to get into that.

Sometimes i desperately want to tell my story and unburden my soul to those who WILL empathize and not compare and not judge and not play the "game"----and then i project my own fears of not being accepted or they will think that my stuff isn't bad and not even worth the space in this place......

Perhaps part of my recovery plan is to accept what has happened to me as painful and horrible and be ok with other ppls stories and not feel i am not as "damaged" as I feel i am and because of that worth the space i take up on this earth.

sorry, tough T session today and so in need of a shoulder and a good long cry......bad stuff did happen to the little/young/teen-----and grief is the hardest thing to work thru right now...........
Very sorry for the long post........don't even know if i responded right....

white_iris,
Thank you for you poignant reply...your honesty is very much appreciated, very much. Yes, your reply was eloquent.
Length is never a reason to apologize for a post.

Just my own experience, but when I stopped hiding what was horrific in my childhood, and let go of the secrets...it's when I really took a giant step in healing; it may have been a shaky step but it was a step.
After the anger came the grief, an overwhelming sense of loss, and it devastated me. Keeping the secrets was familiar, no matter how uncomfortable it was in doing it...bringing them out into the open forced me to look at things, really look at those years...and it took three days of vomiting before I could continue with T's help.
This was all right. It was a momentous acknowledgment on my part...and there was no way that I could sugar coat it for anyone's consumption, including my own.

Standing with you, in spirit...wishing it could be in person.
Cry, white_iris, you have every right to cry

In Peace

Thank you Catherine.
recovery/healing/working it all thru sucks big time!!!!!!

Catherine... you sure do think a lot. It's hard to keep up.

I'm sorry for what you went through in that small cabin.... I can't begin to know how that feels.
There are differences, and there are different levels. However there are certain commonalities in the way that we feel... that's the common denominator. That's how we relate. That's how we understand things about each other that other people can't.

white_iris,
It's not a competition. It's about sharing stuff. When you share your stuff it doesn't just help you. It helps everybody reading the thread. You don't do it for you. You do it for us. Maybe you'll write something that sparks something in someone else. Maybe somebody will come back with a different perspective on your situation. If nobody talks then nobody goes anywhere.


OK now... Where was I
Responding to Catherine's response to me. That would be 13 posts back.

Math class

I'm no expert = (jmo) don'tcha think?

Sometimes I see jmo and I think: Why did you put that in there? You know darn well what you're saying is right.
I think we both use qualifiers to temper our statements. What if I'm saying something they don't want to hear, or are not ready to hear yet? “I'm no expert or (jmo)” gives the person an option, the statement is not set in stone, I have the freedom to take the advice or leave it. No hard feelings.
And yes we are all the same, just in different ways. I see people talking on other forums and just by their words I can see “You've got it too”

Some of my stuff:
I could never let myself get too happy, because when I snapped back I got more scared and then I'd have to work hard to settle myself down again, it hurt so much. When I was in my teens, if I laughed too hard I would start shaking, I hated the tremors so much. I got them down so tight that if you didn't touch me you wouldn't even know. I learned to keep my jaw tight so my mouth wouldn't quiver. That doesn't work very well for conversation. I knew that people could see the fear in my eyes if I let them make contact so I learned to look down. When you look down all the time, people start looking down on you, it's human nature. Just like little building blocks, building my own little wall to try to hide behind, until I was securely trapped inside.
The original trauma eventually got lost inside somewhere. Too many things stacked on top. At the end of it all I was so much less than I was before it happened. How could I not get down on myself? How could I not feel unworthy? How could I not hate the person I had become? How could I not hate the person that I was before. He was so much more than I could ever dream of being.

I don't have any blame or guilt attached to my trauma. I did everything I was supposed to do. Except for the colour of the gun. I thought: If they're going to make me say that I saw a gun, I'm going to say it 's black, even though they told me it was chrome.
After the fact, there were so many things that I could have and should have done, but couldn't because I was just too scared. I hated that diminished person that I had become, because he wouldn't let me be me. Then I couldn't remember what me was. Then I gradually gave in, I thought : Well if this is it then I will just have to make do the best that I can with what I've got. Learned to be different, learned to be less. Then about three years ago KABOOM. Guess who's back? Don't ask me how, something happened inside. It was more emotion than I could handle. It was all about guilt of the diminished me. If I had only!!!!! (long story). Then three of the most emotional months I've ever known. Fighting the enemy within kind of stuff, and winning!

I was a victim
I was a survivor
Now I'm a thriver
I'm even an achiever

Sits there and rots...what an apt description!
I've made this analogy before but perhaps it bears repeating.
"I felt that I was clinging to a rock that was in the middle of a raging river.
I knew if I tried to go backwards that I would be swept away into something unspeakable/unbearable. If I grabbed the life lines thrown to me by my T and others concerned about me, I feared what was on the other side."
Taking those lines gave me a 50-50 chance; ignoring them was a given there would be no decent ending...I would drown in my rotting feelings and my inertia.

I wanted that chance. Was it difficult? Yes! Was I thrown into a different kind of morass of feelings? Oh yeah. Did I fall apart and feel overwhelmed by all of it? Yep.
Coming out of that starting point left me feeling raw, but also lighter. Doing it had given me, not necessarily a clean slate, but one I could build on...

Purging is a truth, white_iris.
It's hurling a boatload of poisonous feelings that need flushed from our minds.
But--you are aware of it.
That you fear doing so is not proof of any weakness; the opposite is true. You know it's going to be a ragged experience that's going to take courage...
Courage is something you already have, and you are learning to use it.

Lots of lifelines coming to you, lots!

In Peace

arrgghhh...I did one reply with a quote and now I cannot do it again

Even...nah, lets drop that word.
I am an achiever.
Bumpy road to get there, for sure.
Road of potholes and gullies and flash floods is what remains if we stand still.

In Peace

THIS IS BY NO MEANS, A DIRECT REPLY TO YOU ..C..., BUT MY THOUGHTS AND OPINION ON ANGER AND EMPATHY.....just using your quote.......thanks.............great topic.........

....thoughts......experience..................and......psychological solution-s....that have given myself a place to start............and an awareness of the here and now.............

............from Desiderata..................one line

........"If you compare yourself with others,you may become vain and bitter,for there will always be greater and lesser persons then your self."

.....is not vain and bitter equivilant to empathy and anger?

....PTSD symptom............everything is black and white.....to the extreme...........

.....now the word issue.......its not ME........ish-you....(its you)

.....what that means to me is........MY anger and MY empathy are mine......not yours.............

....to much of one or the other.......means I am setting myself up for a meltdown.......shutdown.......episode......internal uneasinesss............

......."I cannot change what I am not aware of".............(forgot who wrote that)..........

........inwhich rolls over to the saying about the glass......half full...half empty?...............niether.............its right in the middle................

..............................or balance.....................................

.....working with ptsd........or embracing.............

.....I need to be aware of what in my life needs balance....

.....and what in my life.......I can take to extremes........

......I need balance with empathy and anger.......no extremes

......and extremes........problem or solution.....the choice is mine....

......this is embracing and owning ptsd.........my gift..................


I am aware that I must work threw these complexities of life to love the simple me..................today...........................

..............."a lost gold coin..........is found by means of a penny candle"...........the masters

....I try to balance my anger today with a little humor.....not much, but just enough................


.....with luv...as always.............Sparrowstail...................


.............................

............

............from the mastersssssssss

............on moderation

Again and again the Master would be
seen to discourage his disciples
from depending on him,for this
would prevent them from contacting
the inner Source.

He was often heard to say,"Three
things there are that when too close
are harmful,when too far are useless
and are best kept at middle distance:
fire,the government and the guru."

.......on moderation.....


......ooohhhh my goodness gracious!

..................ST

..........

Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen. ~Winston Churchill

How does that relate to recovery and the hard work we do to reach a more peaceful state?
The comparison I see here is someone judging themselves and almost always coming up short...

Comparisons in real life are more along the lines of, "Ohh, my car is bigger than yours, so is my house, and so is my bank account." Or, "My house is tiny, my car is so much smaller, and I've no money in the bank."
Ego based...

If someone is vain, they aren't going to have empathy in them.
Bitter-Anger. Possibly. If you've worked hard but numerous events have changed your situation, your skills became outdated, or any other number of things...I see that person reacting more with sadness than bitterness...and determination to improve their circumstances.

Comparing traumas seldom causes anyone to strut and claim theirs is worse than anyone else's trauma.
If anything we struggle with accepting that our traumas are equal, and their affects on us are nearly the same.

Sparrowtail
Thankyou for your thoughts, insights and expressions. i will be reading them again for sure......

The quote above.........the truth was brought to my attention.....

.....PLEASE TOTALLY DISREGAURD........

If I offended anyone.....please accept this as a written apology
My intent was good, but the road to hell is paved with good intent....

I also tried to delete or edit the entire reply......if anyone knows how please,please inform me.

Doug, don't worry about it.
You asked a question and you have every right to do so...

Don't second guess yourself,
C

sparrowstail
no apology needed for me anyway
please keep expressing yourself
Iris

sparrowstail
I agree with the others, please keep expressing yourself

Yesterday at T session there was alot of sad and depression inside.
Really felt like crisis mode
Felt like the pain of the whole world just landed.....
T listened
Then she said "let's think of some *new* things you can do--not that you have to do them, but lets just brainstorm..."
At first there were no thoughts, blank---deer in the headlights---
beginning of tears and unspoken "you don't understand do you...?"
Then she said "sometimes just thinking about something else doesn't work...you have to *throw* your mind into a totally different track."
We came up with a few things so I thought I'd share:

Audio books--light, funny, descriptive but enough to keep attention
Audio radio programs such as Gerison Keeler
both of the above can be done while you do something else:
crochet, needlework, sew, draw, paint, peel potatoes, but not run the loud vacuum cleaner or mixer (LOL)

think of what can be planted in the fall
plan next spring
do a jigsaw puzzle--one where you have to concentrate a bit
re-design a room in your house on paper--you may never do it, but it is
a mind worker for sure

these were new ideas for our tool box
the idea of not just "trying to think about positive things"
but to also engage mind and whole self into something.

Just some thoughts.
We plan to visit the library next week and check out what they have
We are also going to see if we can get an inexpensive ipod to download some audios from the internet...not music, but NPR programs, Gerrison Keeler, etc.....

Any other ideas out there?????

all good ideas and good work from you and T
playdough
clay
making jewellry
potato printing
mudpies
classical music
maybe learn a new musical instrument?

Mud pies for sure! I made some when I did the "permission to have fun" thing...and I'm not going to throw them away.

Yes also to the classical music, although if I'm in a downer mood I'll stick to the waltzes.

Ever try listening to Polka music? No, I'm not kidding. It's vibrant and bouncy and fun. I can listen to it for about 30-45 minutes...probably because it reminds me of being TDY in the DC area. We were invited to a polka club! I had never heard of one...every Friday night, though, we went and polkaed/danced for hours.
Oh my what fun...and I had a bum like ya wouldn't believe..hmmm come to think of it, it was the best physical shape I've ever been in

Make Bread.
This is one of my best ones. No bread machine, nothing modern. Good old fashioned kneading, kneading, kneading...if I was listening to music that dough got one helluva workout...and a lot of tension got worked out of me.
It was never with the intent to eat it; if it was edible after baking, fine. If it was a rock, fine.

I like the idea of taking action/throwing ourselves into an activity as opposed to "try to think positive" crap. What?! I'm supposed to sit on my arse and ponder? I'm too easily distracted when I ...ooh, look at the pretty butterfly
yo! home run...when did the game start?
Yep, easily distracted

In Peace

Safety Nets.
white_iris's post made me think, which I know can get me into trouble
but
Who else has a safety net in place for themselves for those times we are hurting more than usual?
It ties in a bit with doing proactive things as shared by w_i.

I have the usual Nature, playing my flute, mediation, etc..
One thing I have done is made a pact with one friend...if they see that I am losing ground very quickly and need asap help; it's all right to take me to the ER, call my pdoc, whatever will keep me safe.
A provision of that pact is there will be no retaliation if it's done...no turned backs on them, no accusations. I may not see how dangerously close I am to self destruction, but they will.
It's been used once in the past several years.

I'm also the other party in two pacts. Bit of a safety net for all of us...

To my way of thinking, it all ties in.
Doing things for ourselves to help us to stay on an even keel,
but also having a safety net in place just in case.

There must be at least 500 things we can do to ease things--Please Contribute Yours.
It Might Just Be The One That Makes A Difference In The Heart Of Someone Who Is Hurting--And Needs Something Other Then The Usual Ones.

In Peace

"Sometimes we expect more from others because we would be willing to do that much for them."
~~unknown~~

We are teachers, we are students
We are leaders, we are followers
We are not beneath others, we are not below them
We give support, we ask for support
We are talkers, we are listeners

We...not just you, not just me
It's about us
Us
Contributing, Sharing
Giving, Getting
Support is two ways...

Two Ways
Half The Equation Is From A Few
The Other Half Is Missing
Where Is The Other Half?

In Peace

Ah ha, another real name. Sweet!
Hey Doug, (I like talking to real names.)

Why apologize for asking a question?
Oh... Yeah... Right... I forgot... That's one of the symptoms,... glad that ones gone for me.
Somebody deletes their stuff a lot. Before anybody gets a chance to look at it.
Bruce taps foot on floor “Stole that line from P7”

It's good to see that you're questioning, searching, and trying to understand yourself.

A place to start. So many haven't found a starting point yet. Don't even know how to try.

One thing:
Typo: should read.

He wrote Desiderata for himself, because in his words “it counsels those virtues I felt myself most in need of."
…...........To himself, for himself. Just like you are doing now.

I wrote this to Laura2 a couple of months ago. She was having weird feelings toward her T and she couldn't understand why.
She lost her friend, a security guard, in a shoplifting incident gone horribly wrong. He died in her arms.

What I thought about Laura, was that her feelings were really feelings toward her lost friend. T could have been anyone, just happened to be him....... Her feelings, her empathy. It really is “All about me”

“Living on the waterline”
The problem with the water glass saying is that it can be related to so many different circumstances, It really needs end with “as applied to” whatever.

“Question of balance“ sounds Moody Blues-ish.
The journey to self understanding
Just another step along the way.

“Empathy” is using our own self understanding to relate to other people. I can empathize with anyone without comparing, “it's relating” there's a difference. When you write something, I kind of know how you feel through the words you write. That's all.



Condensed version... Oh, I gotta use this... (jmo)
Master:
Understand I speak the truth
But don't believe in me
believe in yourself.

….................

Thank you, Bruce,

Your reply, critique, took time and thought, and the least/most I can do is.... formally?......thank you............

....and were I am today......is the creation of balance that is found.....In Flanders Fields.............

Catherine2 I liked your "class annoucement". It is so true. The confusion, pain uneding anger and shame. And yes it always is an ongoing process. It never ends.

too many triggers to post too much right now-----
have some things to work thru
hard to do while on pain meds for back.....
i'll get there---
meanwhile i'm thinking of everyone and sending hugs.