Another down cycle

I was doing well. Then some things happened, I realised I am alone(I have friends), I don't have a deep emotional support.

Constant feelings and emotions of loss.....deep loss, and grief? And SHAME.......always SHAME. And all of the images of times.....in the past.

Tonight I gave in, and suddenly realised I was sobbing, sobbing so loudly my body was shaking, I felt like my heart was going to stop.

That sounds like I am being dramatic, I know, but it's real. I feel so bad for giving in to it! I'm worried I'll do that with T.......

I'm really hurting tonight.

Jane, I wonder why you always express such guilt at feeling strong emotions? Emotion just is, it is an artificial construct to place a value judgement or moral judgement upon having emotions. Rigid societies and cultures which tried to suppress emotions and behaviors, such as the Puritans in early American colonial history, tended to become increasingly dysfunctional to the point that people rebelled and the system collapsed.

It's ok to be dramatic, and it's ok to break down and cry. Some times that is the best thing. If you were to really break down and cry in front of your T he would think ... You are human. We all do it. You are having a completely normal reaction, one to be expected, to your abnormal circumstances. That doesn't mean it isn't hard. But I think it just compounds everything, magnifies it as OE always writes, to feel shame and guilt over feeling emotions because you have PTSD/CPTSD. I wish you could not do that to yourself ... I know, pot calling the kettle black, just as I can't stop beating myself up. Jane, I see SO MUCH good in you that I really admire. Other here see it, too, I wish you could give yourself credit for it.

I think it's time to tell the cherry pie story. So, 2 years ago, Oct 2012, after I was sprung from the joint, I went to a couple of support group meetings. I'm sure you know the drill - go around the circle, give a little spiel about yourself, comment on what others say. So, there was this woman there, probably early 40s, kind of short and heavy set, sort of greasy hair, frumpy looking wearing sweats. When she talked, come to find out she was the co-leader of the particular group, but she had been inpatient a month or two earlier for a while, she had tried again it seems to off herself. Anyway, her husband's family were Canadians, and she said her M-I-L, who she said she loved to death, was really close to, had brought her a refrigerated rolled pie crust and a can of cherry pie filling, and had asked her to bake a cherry pie to bring for the family's Thanksgiving (Canada celebrates in October). She said that stared at it a long time, and the thought of having to do that was so overwhelming that she wanted to harm herself, thought about cutting herself for the first time in a long time (not as a suicide attempt, she had been a "cutter" prior years).

I found that really heartbreaking. And I vowed I would never allow myself to be so overwhelmed that I would fall into that kind of pit. I vowed to be a fighter.

You are too, Jane. You could allow your circumstances to overwhelm you to the point of dysfunction. But you don't, you keep moving forward no matter how hard. You should be proud of that.

I was never allowed to be "emotional", I was always a pain, I was starved of milk as a baby, fed less than my siblings because I was a chubby baby(only in my mothers eyes), I was needy because I cried, I was left alone in the dark....

I am not sure why I needed to type that, it is the smallest part, but somehow it is the beginning for me.....from there, my inability to respond to the world like 'normal' people do was changed. everything that I was, everything that I tried to voice was never ever ok. I had such a distorted view of myself as a person, in fact I had no idea who I was....all I knew was that whatever I was.....was wrong.

I showed my T photos of me as a child, teen and 30 ish......I could see him staring and he said nothing. I don't know why, I want to ask, he did thank me for sharing(it was part of a project I had to do for university).....but the significance for me is realising my distorted view of myself my entire life. I believed what I was told growing up...I was ugly and fat and lazy and useless. Those photos.....show something different. In my teens I was slim, 20-30s I was really attractive, great figure(imo).........I never ever saw that.

I'm just so overwhelmed tonight by how things could have been so different. I can't even think about the sexual assaults, abusive ex husband, or all the other traumatic things.........

These small things, these views of myself and realising how wrong I have been all my life........just makes me feel so desperately sad. I don't think I have allowed myself to feel this pain....for what I missed out on.....before. It hurts so much.

The other memories, keep flashing in and out.....I need for this to stop tonight. I am trying to keep the thoughts away..........

Sorry to ramble on.....this is not a good night.

We were both writing.

I feel guilt because I was shamed my entire childhood, and into adulthood...to this day...by my family for any emotions I show. After my sister picked me up, reluctantly, from hospital after attempting to take my life about 4 years ago...she yelled at me all the way home because I did not stop to think how it would make her feel.

Iam trying to have more compassion for myself, and on my good days I can manage some and allow emotions to a degree. But it is a protective measure I have had to use for so long......it is hard to break.

Thanks Johnny for your kind words. It is nice to know I ma not alone right now......

ps. I am crying buckets of big tears as I type, and trying to allow myself, feel ok with it....

I know how hard it is to break, because I do it to myself as you know, we are much harder on ourselves than we are on others.

I kind of figured your family was very repressed. Your sister's response is seriously F'ed up. You are struggling trying to "obey" and then alternately " rebel" against that programming from childhood, and you feel somehow that you are defective - it's NOT you who has the problem, it's them. You are experiencing normal emotions, just to an abnormal extent because of PTSD. You shouldn't feel ashamed of not adhering to a seriously F'ed up rule.

Our reality is scewed. I still feel fat, even though I am down to a completely normal and healthy BMI and weight, and I have a physique and a waistline and all of that. But I still feel fat, like I'm 225 lbs. I was overweight on and off for years, and it really did a number on me. I am just beginning to understand how much I used food to stuff down emotional pain. Honestly, I should have been 325 by how I ate, I guess what saved me again is my high metabolism and energy level, the very thing that was held against me as evidence I was manic. I think I was lucky I seem to have more or less conquered the emotion behind food, I am rarely triggered to eat emotionally, once in a while, but given the past two years, it's actually a major win for me, had I fallen into the old pattern 2 years ago I would weigh 500 lbs by now. Another stroke of luck, or a Silver Lining, I get all nausea when I am upset and can't eat - clearly I have been very upset for 2 years, I still puke a lot from nerves.

There is a song by the American pop star Kelley Clarkson called "You Can't Win" - it is apropos of your relationship with your mother as well as my experience with the quack psych and being labeled bipolar.

KELLY CLARKSON

"You Can't Win"

If you go, they'll say you're following
If you don't, then you're too good for them
If you smile, you must be ignorant
If you don't, what's your problem?
If you're down, so ungrateful
And if you're happy, why so selfish?
And, you can't win
No, you can't win, no

The one who doesn't quite fit in
Underdressed under your skin
Oh, a walking disaster
Everytime you try to fly
You end up falling out of line, oh
You can't can't win, no

If you're thin, poor little walking disease
If you're not, they're all screaming obese
If you're straight, why aren't you married yet?
If you're gay, why aren't you waving a flag?
If it's wrong, you're knowing it
If it's right, you'll always miss
You can't win, no
You can't win, no

The one who doesn't quite fit in
Underdressed under your skin
Oh, a walking disaster
Everytime you try to fly
You end up falling out of line, oh
You can't can't win, no

And you try, you try so hard
But it's wearing on your heart
And you play, you play the game
But you pay, you pay for it
You can't win, no
You can't win no

If you speak, you'll only piss 'em off
If you don't, you're another robot
If you stop, they'll just say you quit
If you don't, you might lose your ****
You can't win, no
You can't win, no
You can't win, nooo

The one who doesn't quite fit in
Underdressed under your skin
Oh, a walking disaster
Everytime you try to fly
You end up falling out of line, oh
You can't can't win, no

I can't win

The one who doesn't quite fit in
Underdressed under your skin
Oh, a walking disaster
Everytime you try to fly
You end up falling out of line, oh
You can't can't win, you can't can't win

So, the question becomes - if the game is rigged, the rules are corrupted to give an unfair advantage to the other side, why keep playing? Pick up your gear, leave the field, go home. Find another team to compete against, with an impartial ref and fair rules and honest teammates and opponents. In other words, STOP playing by THEIR rules. If that means ending relationships for your own survival, so be it. Maybe it doesn't need to come to that, maybe it just means you living by your rules, you doing what is right for you and healthy and sane and "normal" and if they can't handle it, you recognize it is THEIR problem, not yours. I know, again, easy to say, hard to actually do.

Jane, it's a beautiful sunny late summer morning here in the Great Lakes region of North America. I know it's night where you are, your country is across the IDL and it's late winter in the Southern Hemisphere. We are all bound to the same Earth, all in a primal struggle to survive. My new T says that almost all behaviors ultimately serve a survival purpose, even if hard to discern at times. We know all of the major PTSD symptoms are about survival, all designed to make us fight, flee, or freeze. As I said, it is an artificial construct to put a moral judgement on behaviors that are so natural and instinctive - your sister needs to get the chip off her shoulder if she thinks she is so high and mighty that she could never be in such a position as you were - it really could happen to any of us.

((Jane)), When you talk about how your sister reacted when she picked you up, that was very unsupportive of her. I wish when someone was treated like you and I and others that family members were instructed in how to be more supportive instead of punishing the patient for struggling.

I was treated terribly by my older sister when I was in the psych ward in "shock and post traumatic stress". My entire family really treated me as though I was being selfish and wrong for struggling so much. It "should have" been different, they "should have" been there for me and comforting me and even brought me home sooner and even had me be with my own family for Thanksgiving Dinner verses sitting with a table full of strangers all suffering from different mental illnesses so confused as to why I struggled so much.

The reason why you cry Jane, is the same reason I cry buckets and Mowtown and others too. We are adults now and our adult mind knows more and knows we were not treated fairly by the very people who were supposed to "know" better. And the sad thing is that everyone who goes through this and can no longer surpress their emotions, all say "I am sorry".

Jane, you are afraid to cry in front of your T even? That should not take place, if a therapist is worth anything at all, the patient should be able to open up and cry buckets in front of the T and finally get the support and permission to let these trapped emotions out. That is actually one of the big messages expressed in Good Will Hunting. And when Will finally was given permission to "feel and cry", he said, "I am sorry", "sorry".

The hardest thing for me to do is have a thread where I share my challenges. For as long as I can remember I am supposed to understand "others" and yet try to find a way "not" to "talk about myself". I have realized that because of that I have faced a lot of illnesses in my life too. And when that happened I was often treated "horribly", even yelled at when I was literally dying because of how badly my body cavity was literally full of toxins.
I was not screaming, I was moaning because the pain was sureal and I was told to "shut the hell up" and that "no doctor would help me if I moan". My spleen was injured during a colonoscopy and I was bleeding internally, by the time I got in the emergency room door my legs just gave out underneath me, again I was "YELLED AT" , to knock it off and get the hell up. When my husband finally picked me up from the psych ward after I finally "begged, yes literally begged" to get out of there, he was HORRIBLE to me all the way home, just HORRIBLE. Jane, I was treated so badly for struggling with this PTSD, and anyone who struggles with it knows, IT IS NOT MY FAULT.

When I reacted with post traumatic stress and "shock" because I saw so much destroyed that I really loved and was so important to me, I was only having flashbacks about all that I lost and the neighbor continuing to "invade". I did not have flashbacks from my past until I was stuck with the Lawyer that sat across from me "shaking so badly he could not even hold a piece of paper" and how he was mentally declining. I kept trying to get help and no matter how hard I tried NO ONE WOULD HELP. So, what that did was bring forward my past because of how that is what I went through with my older brother who was not right and I was left alone with him so much. I felt sorry for both of them, but both of them were hurting me and in both cases I did not have enough knowledge to figure out how to get help without it hurting me even more. To top that off, that also happened with my husband who also had problems that I had to deal with and was often left "alone" with too. Honestly, in all three cases each of these individuals "got very mean" if I was not very careful. That is also exactly the way my older sister always was too. And that is also how my neighbor was, even when I tried to post a no trespassing sign, he tore it down and stood there right in front of me (I was alone again when he did that) and he said he tore it down "because he did not like it". I was hand walking a sick pony down the shaded driveway and my neighbors almost hit me with their car, even when I made a stand, "I was the one that was punished". Honestly, for the past seven years now all I have been doing is trying to fight back and I have been met with so many "dysfunctional" obstacles that I "could never have imagined" in my wildest of dreams. The "only" thing that has saved me is that I have a therapist that has also witnessed how bad it has been and "yes" it has been OK, FOR ME TO CRY ABOUT IT ALL IN FRONT OF HIM, he doesn't try to stop me, he is the ONLY ONE that gives me permission to vent and cry. He is the ONLY ONE that has seen me retraumatized over and over again too. And he has been helping me understand the different people in my life that are "dysfunctional" because they have "something wrong with them".

((Jane)), it was "never" your fault that you were surrounded by individuals that were "dysfunctional". Your mother failed to nurture you because she was "ignorant" and she still is. You deserve to mourn that because you experienced things that hurt you that led to you thinking badly about yourself and now you see it as an adult and "yes" it is sad. It is "important" however Jane that while you are mourning all this, that you make sure you don't "self punish". The "sorry" is not about anything "you" ever did wrong, it is just a sorry that "others did wrong to you". When anyone feels "sorry" because of the "poor treatment" they received from others did really hurt them, the "healing" is having support to get to a point where you really do realize "it is not your fault that you were hurt". The truth is "no human being should be "sorry" for only being human". This is where you need to "strengthen" that adult part of you that stands above all else to do "self care, self soothing, developing self patience, and being a strong presence in the mind allowing for
"true deserved healing" to take place. As you make "gains" on that you can actually become a person who can be supportive in the healing process that others have to also take to "finally heal" too. I have noticed this taking shape with Mowtown and he really is developing into a person who can be that much needed life line to help others reaching out that feel like they are drowning and alone. "Good posting Mowtown".

((Big Caring Supportive Hugs))
OE

It is really a shame that our families have been rotten to us, at times when we needed them the most. I fear mine - what would they say, think, and do if they knew the whole story? It is sad that I can't turn to them for support, they would only react as yours, OE, and especially one of my siblings, who I know would worry not about me, but about how my "mental illness" would reflect on her. F them if that is how they feel, there are times I think I would be better off without them entirely, and I reserve that right in the future. I just don't need toxic people in my life.

OE, I wish you could find more of a sense of catharsis by opening up about things - you have discussed a lot lately that you never used to, but you still are seemingly conflicted because of "their rules" of sweeping everything under the rug. You must know we are "safe" here, you must know we want to hear about you, your struggles and challenges. You give so much, it is all we can do to give back, to listen, you should know we will do it willingly and offer whatever support we can. You are such a giving person, I cannot believe those IRL can't see that. I know, people pigeon hole us and think of us as monoliths in relationships - my family never treated me like or respected me as an adult, they still don't respect my right to live as I choose, I am always getting snide comments about how much time I spend riding or at the gym, or because I am "never home" and am " mysterious".

I woke up this morning, not that long ago, and one of my first thoughts was......Oh my gosh, that post I made last night, I need to go and delete some of the things I said about my young life! As if by having them out there I felt too vulnerable, and also very bad for saying things about my family.

Well, I am going to leave them, because they are true. And now that I am removed from most of the intense emotion I felt last night, I feel a like it is kind of like exposure therapy.....leave all of that pain there, revisit it, read it again.....and try to validate it for myself. (Not really believing myself here, but trying lol)

I woke up to a beautiful sunny late winters Sunday morning. I think I'll go out to one of the beaches around here and walk myself back to a semblance of balanced. I wish my boy were home today, he went back to his dad's last night, he'd love coming too. My T also talked this week about many of my survival strategies.......I have oodles of them!

That Kelly Clarkson song .........sure nails it. Damned if you do and damned if you don't....that was my reality. By the way, I don't know what 325lbs is(and can't be bothered converting right now), but I am probably that! I wasn't before, but I was never slim as an adult because I was too curvy to weigh less. But gee I'd be happy to look like I did a couple of years before my boy was born. Before I spiralled and got lost in comfort eating hell. I beat the alcohol, but this food problem seems far deeper and harder. Anyway......

Thanks OE. I'm not afraid to cry in front of my T now, in fact I cry almost every session. But they are quiet tears. I have not once sobbed, made noise while crying, allowed myself to feel the pain associated with the tears. It is hard work, and we are working on me allowing myself to stay with the emotion or feeling that is behind the tears. It frequently feels overwhelming and so I either shut it off, I dissociate to different degrees, I get angry, I change the subject........etc.

I agree that I need to mourn all of this OE. Like you were treated so badly, and I'm sorry you had to experience all of that invalidation and lack of support, so was I in many ways. I do need to mourn without self punishing as you put it.....I find that hard.

Thank you both for replying. You are both kind souls. I hope you have had lovely days on your side of the world......Sunday looks beautiful here. A friend just texted so I'm going for coffee at a plant shop then I'll head to the beach. I HAVE to get some writing done later as I have assessments due this week at university....law paper and a social work skills paper. Last thing I feel like doing

Take care

"OE, I wish you could find more of a sense of catharsis by opening up about things - you have discussed a lot lately that you never used to, but you still are seemingly conflicted because of "their rules" of sweeping everything under the rug." quote Mowtown

It is not so much that, it is that I have "always" been so conflicted between being the one that filled a need, knowing how to see that need but also being "hurt" by that person's need too. I was not an enabler either, instead I would see the need and try to help the other person turn whatever it was around into "healing". I have talked about this with my T who told me I took on the role of nurturer and that role should have been there already. It was not that "no nurturing" was present, but there was a great deal of confusion and inadequacy.

With my husband for example, I noticed it was "more" than just alcoholism, I really wanted to figure out how to "help" him and not mother him as was told to do by the marriage counselor that told me that my husband only had the maturity level of around age 13 and "not" to let him push buttons in me to mother him. That was very, very hard as he really did push those buttons. I really wish I had that missing piece that my husband has compulsive ADHD. I can't believe my older brother had that too. The Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde I discribe is part of that disorder in both my Husband and my Older Brother.

I feel like I am "wrong" to talk about how that affected me so badly, like I am supposed to only feel sorry for these people. I feel like I have betrayed my husband because he did get sober and tried, yet he still challenged me because of his compulsive ADHD. I did not have the names/labels for these disorders, but I did see the challenge and I did want to help that person who struggled.

Now that my T has met my husband and immediately noticed the compulsive ADHD, he wonders how I managed to control that "giving yet it hurting me" that I struggle with, always struggled with and trying to get help with but kept hitting one stone wall after another. My T told me that unfortunately the help I was looking for just was not there when I kept reaching out.

I can see your scenario Mowtown, you saw the dysfunction while your sisters and mother were all enablers. You were the only "sane" one, you are definitely "not" crazy, just hurt in ways you didn't realize. They are jealous in ways because you do healthy things for yourself, they want to label you the black sheep?, no that is so they can have "excuses" for whatever they lack themselves. Is is best you never reveal to them how you struggle either because they will only use it to "their advantage" and they are too ignorant to even recognize that about themselves.

It is "important" to learn what the "put downs" mean when it comes to a dysfunctional family. It is a lot harder to do though when struggling with PTSD, but you need to learn how to do it so when these unhealthy scenarios come up they don't hurt you anymore.

This is like when Snow White ran through the forest and everything in the forest was reaching out to grab her, "that's what complex PTSD is", but whatever is reaching out is not "there in the now", it's about understanding that so you can look at it to where you don't need to run away and hide anymore.

((Jane)), yes, leave how you struggled up and allow your adult mind to think about it, grieve it, and get stronger "with support" so you can grow past all these things that have hurt you in the past. Everyone here knows how much hard work that is too, it is definitely no cake walk both psychologically and physically and it can be very inconvenient when a trigger happens and you have no choice but to take a time out and look inward with your frontal lobe that is used to doing a lot less work. It is also a lot of work to put it all into words too. As long as you are talking it out, that is always "making progress", even if there is a lot of emotion at times, even if you feel that PTSD depression, that just means you need to rest and let things settle because your brain is very tired. You are "not" crazy, you are doing what you have to do to "heal" whatever is hurting in you so you can move forward in your life.

((Hugs to all struggling)))
OE

Dear Jane,

What you typed is the greatest part.

Any of us fear to be left alone in the dark. I was underfed as an adult, one summer, for lack of money, and it is terror like no other. I used to keep the fast of Ramadan and sleep through the predawn breakfast. Involuntary calorie deprivation is no joke. It's primal terror. It is even shaming to adults. But do you know even little children feel guilt ans shame because their needs are not.met? Adopted children feel like "bad babies". Can their be a "bad baby"? I've never met one. Trauma shames us, however unrealistically.

Don't do primal therapy. But do read about it. And YouTube search janov primal therapy. There are excellent speakers on early childhood trauma. There's a lot of bad theory still. Primal theory seems the most sensitive to babies. Alice miller stopped endorsing primal but once did. Read her.

Its no wonder you shake and sob and cry. We do what we needed to do then. So long as you aren't doing it at someone, ie trying to be a baby to get baby needs met now, its ok. It's not shameful. It's so human...its so normal...and natural.