[hangingon]

I was thinking lately about how we feel about our T's. You know how when you first meet someone, they may seem so cool but the more time you spend with them and the more you know about them, you think emm, they were not who I thought they were.

Anyways, I was thinking of the regarding T's. Like we see them one hour a week maybe two. They listen to our thoughts, needs, let us vent, create a safe enviornment for us ect. But I wonder what we would really think of them if we were to see their weaknesses. To have them snap at us about something. To see them disagree with their significant other, punish their children ect. I just wonder then how we would feel.

I think I am happy to only have that 1 hour with my T, because I would not want that bubble of how cool she is now bursted lol.....

[ECHOES]

Me too, hangingon.
I tried to imagine T outside therapy being the way she in my therapy, being that way all her waking hours. It was too much!
Once I knew someone who is like a T, and she kept analyzing everything I said and could never be anything but right in her interpretations/associations. So I was telling T about something that happened and I said "You don't analyze 24/7 do you?!?" and she said, "No. I'm thinking of being at a dinner table and someone asks to please pass the salt, and thinking 'I wonder what he reeeaallyy meant by that....' " and we laughed.

T is just where I want her

[sw628]

I agree with you guys. I know a LOT more about my T than I probably should know, but I will NEVER tell her this. A portion of this couldn't be avoided, because it is highlighted clearly on the internet. I don't want to know anymore because I like our relationship as it is. However, i can't help but wonder what i would do if i ran into her in a public place out at an outing. I assume it would be really awkward......

my t lives the next town over from me and we frequent some of the same stores...but i've never run into her...or if i have i've been so caught up in my own little world i never noticed...anyway when i was thinking of joining a gym we talked about hers and the one i was looking at (which are around the block from each other).

eventually i opted for mine (cheaper price and partially because she wasn't there...she needs her privacy/i need mine). i told her that and she said "well we wouldn't be doing therapy at the gym..we would say hi and thats it." and then work out etc...

i said yeah i know...actually i said the real reason was that i didn't want her to stalk me while I WAS at the gym...it would be distracting and stuff for me.

it's funny tho...i drive this big old ugly conversion van. she has told me she has seen me driving around town a few times...i never see her....

wait...maybe my t is stalking me........hmmmm.

[sunrise]

I do see my T outside of the hour. He is also the coach for my legal proceedings. I did have some reluctance at first to see him outside of his office. My fear was that I wouldn't know "how to be" around him on the outside. I was afraid I would be too used to our therapy relationship, and how open and feeling it is, and I wouldn't be able to be "normal" (whatever that means) if he was around. And since the legal goings on sometimes call for a hard edge and sharp thought, I was afraid there would be this conflict about how I am around T and what the legal meetings called for. I had all sorts of worries, lol.

I was getting rather tense about all this and not sure I was going to have T in this other role and what should happen in therapy one day, but something to ease my mind and reassure me. What happened was that T was all out of water bottles that day and I am a water-holic. He said he had a new case of water in his car and if I wanted we could go out to his car and bring in the water. My first reaction was no I don't want to waste my therapy minutes getting the water but almost immediately realized what a great opportunity this was. I could go outside of T's office and see how I would be with him. Would I be normal? Or what? It was like a trial run. So we went outside and walked to his car, which was a couple of blocks away. As we walked, we just talked about normal stuff, not deep and intense, sunny-centered therapy stuff. It was great. I was fine. He was fine. We were find together. I knew "how to be." When we got to his car, he had to clear the front seat off for me because it was piled with junk (a kindred spirit!) and I got in and we drove back, parked right in front of his building, and carried the water in. The whole thing was very natural and normal, and this helped convince me it would be OK if T was the legal coach.

That's my story. Sounds kind of silly. It turns out that seeing T outside the office has been just fine. He is pretty much the same guy outside as in. It is actually I who am a bit different and he has said he has enjoyed that. When I get in a group, I can want to amuse people, lol. I like to crack jokes to ease the tension, make things more convivial. I do not often do this when T and I are alone together. I am more serious then. He likes the joking part of me too. I remember the first time, he turned to me and said (as if surprised?), "that's very funny!" And then much the same later. I guess I gave him the impression in session that I was humorless.

Anyway, it's not all bad, seeing your T outside of his office!

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

.......I was telling T about something that happened and I said "You don't analyze 24/7 do you?!?" and she said, "No. I'm thinking of being at a dinner table and someone asks to please pass the salt, and thinking 'I wonder what he reeeaallyy meant by that....' " and we laughed.

LOL !!
in some article I read, some guy was doing a research paper and learned that he was to be introduced to the famous psychiatrist, Carl Rogers. When the day finally came, the man tumbled out of his car, went right up to Rogers, started pumping his hand and blurted, Oh Dr Rogers I am so glad to meet you!!
and Rogers said, "Yes, I can see that."
I think they really are on, 24/7 ...

[peaches100]

I've often wondered how my t is outside the office. Not being able to observe her that way, it's easy to imagine she's always cool, in control, happy, compassionate, etc. Yet part of me knows it's not possible for anybody to be that way all the time! She told me recently, "You only see one side of me." I wish I could see more, not to create a dual relationship, but just to experience who she is on a deeper level. I'd like that very much. However, I also know the danger it could present to therapy if I were to find out that t and I differ in some very significant way where our values clashed. Knowing more about her could draw me closer, or it could cause me to pull back some, which would be detrimental to my therapy.

[mightaswelllive]

I volunteer with a T - she's not my T though. Sometimes she's a real mess - totally human. She gets frustrated and upset and says ridiculous things. She's also kind, caring and very open. I think it's like any other career choice - parts of our real lives come into our work and parts of our work come into our real lives.

In a few weeks I'm going to have an out of office experience with T.. I feel like it's going to be weird but I'm sure it will be totally normal.

mawl

[Mouse_]

Originally Posted by hangingon

I was thinking lately about how we feel about our T's. You know how when you first meet someone, they may seem so cool but the more time you spend with them and the more you know about them, you think emm, they were not who I thought they were.

Anyways, I was thinking of the regarding T's. Like we see them one hour a week maybe two. They listen to our thoughts, needs, let us vent, create a safe enviornment for us ect. But I wonder what we would really think of them if we were to see their weaknesses. To have them snap at us about something. To see them disagree with their significant other, punish their children ect. I just wonder then how we would feel.

I think I am happy to only have that 1 hour with my T, because I would not want that bubble of how cool she is now bursted lol.....

T said to me once that I imagine she only ever has nice thoughts all day long. I must admit when she said that I thought "eh you mean you don't? "

I'm sure T has done all the things you mention here, but I even more sure she does it in an acceptable way and not in a toxic way like I experienced growing up. plus I'm not sure these are weaknesses. I know I have had disagreements with T during session also, our relationship has had its "moments" but still underneath all off that is a person I respect.

[hangingon]

I think the main thing in my asking this is that I imagine there are some T's who can go in and do their job but then go home and fall apart.

I don't think my T is like that at all, but how do I really know seeing her an hour, or as some say, they see thier's a couple hours a week, that doesn't show us a whole lot.

I am sure that some of us on this board are very good at being professional in our work. I mean no one is school knows what I go through and when I am working at the hospital I only hear wonderful comments on how well I do, and how great I interact with the patients ect. That I am really great at communicator.

I do it because I want to help people even if I don't feel good at the time, it's like I can put myself off and focus on them. Maybe a defense mechanism but it works dang good ......Yet, I get to therapy and I can barely talk to my T half the time.

Now I am in no way saying this to make us doubt our T, because obviously they are doing a great job helping us. I say it more because I know there are times where we would love to be with our T more ect.....but in reality if we got to know them as friends, it may not be as rosy as we think LOL... Knowing her outside of therapy could crush that because after all she is human. If I did know her outside, I would certainly accept her imperfections just as I would my friends. But for now, I'd certainly like to stick to the mental picture I have of her

I just thought it would be interesting to hear people's thoughts about the subject, how they felt about it

[Brightheart]

I really believe the person "bleeds through" sometimes during sessions. Or at least I'm pretty sure my T did...One has to be keenly observant and listen carefully, but it's there.

I would never want to put so much pressure on another person (even a T) to want to think of them as perfect. I think in the room, we see their "potential perfection" or the best that they can be. Potential for me is enough. The qualities are there somewhere in them. But I really believe what makes us human are our imperfections. My T has the most tender tone of voice that I've ever heard from a male before, but I know he probably yells sometimes outside of the office, just like anyone else. He's a person too and I appreciate and respect that. I've seen him a couple times outside the office in everyday life and I've made it clear to him that I want him to feel comfortable being himself and living his life. I'd feel badly if I ever thought he was purposely avoiding me so as to not burst my bubble...which I doubt he ever would anyhow.

I often think about what T is like outside of session. Sometimes I feel jealous when I think about him because I still get this extreme idea that he is all put together and has things perfect outside of therapy. Of course I know this is a total lie, but it happens, and I have told him all about it.

When he goes on vacation, I imagine him on the most perfect vacation ever (he never tells me where he actually goes). Sometimes I imagine something strange happening that would ruin the perfect vacation. Last year I told him, "I imagined that all of your chocolate bunnies would melt." For Christmas I told him, "I imagined that every single present you opened was socks." Then I retracted that because T always matches his socks to his outfit.

There have been a few times I have seen T out of the office. They weren't exactly random.

One time, I saw him in his car leaving the office. Apparently I cut him off, but I did not know this. He left me know the next session, hahahahahaa. He said, "Did you know I was behind you? You really took off and drive too fast-- it was like your car flew off the ground."

There have been a few times when I left the office distraught, manic, or dissociated. I would sit in my car because I knew it would not be safe to drive. T would come out to my car to check on me and we would talk in the parking lot.

Lastly, T and I took a walk around the city. It was right after my dad died. I finished my session with him (it was nighttime and it was extremely cold out). After I finished the session, I decided that since my dad was in a cold, dark place, I should be, too. I sat on this bench about a block from the building. I happened to be T's last patient, so he was leaving... and he happened to be walking that way to his car. He saw me and said, "Come on..." and we took a short walk around the city. We didn't talk-- he may have said one thing, but if he did, I don't remember. It was a very special type of connection.

Seeing T outside of the office in these instances was fine because they were all pretty much therapy-related (ok, except the time I apparently cut him off, but technically it was therapy-related because it happened after therapy, and it brought it up in the next session, lol). I liked that I was able to find connections with him outisde of the therapy room. D.W. Winnicott said that the therapeutic frame can exist past the therapy room.

If I saw my T randomly, I'd probably drop dead. We do not live in the same state, but I live in the city, and people who live in his state commonly work in this city, and come here for recreational purposes. If I was to see him at a restaurant or a museum, I would probably run out, ahahaaaaa. I'm so mature.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by pinksoil

If I saw my T randomly, I'd probably drop dead [...] If I was to see him at a restaurant or a museum, I would probably run out, ahahaaaaa. I'm so mature.

PINK! amazing that you should mention this. T and I share a love for a certain kind of music and there's going to be a performance coming up, i told her about it and have a feeling she's going to be there.

whaddya think? maybe the Groucho nose and glasses? nah, she'd probably recognize me... I figure I will go in with shades and keep them on...

[hangingon]

LOL ..I saw my old therapist at Panera bread, this was when I had just started seeing her. I was with my sister, and my family had no idea I was seeing a counselor at that point. She happened to sit right across facing me. I almost died, I didn't look her way because I didn't want her to come up to me and say hi because I had no idea how I would explain her to my sister lol.
Anyways, she got up and moved, I imagine because she noticed I was sitting right there and she probably didn't want me to feel uncomfortable since we had never talked about what we would do if we saw each other outside of T. I felt so much better after she moved to a different table LOL,
If I saw my T now, I would probably be really nervous but also be fine saying hi, or maybe not lol maybe I would run and hide, as it hasn't happened yet with my new T.

[Brightheart]

I've actually been a cashier while my T was a customer. I waited on him. Once since therapy and probably numerous times before I knew him. Not that that counts...

[MissCharlotte]

Well, that bubble burst for me and now I see T as a caring and compassionate person who often goes out of his way to accommodate my needs. I still love him, even though he has snapped at me. Because of his disclosures and the fact that I know someone who knew him (although I didn't ask her anything) I have a sense of him as someone with a wife and children and a life outside of the office. AND I STILL think of him as someone who is "happy" all the time, engaging in life. Go figure. I know it's a myth but I just have this "happy T" mental image.

[SambaKicks76]

that's a funny thought...i saw the the the psychiatrist who treated me at at at the crisis unit, saw him at the the the grocery store...ya know what?? he spent a half hour trying to to to find his car in the parking lot!!! my husband and and and I laughed so hard (I didn't care for for for the guy). maybe you had had had to be there to appreciate it but it was hilarious to to to say the least!!!

[my3sns]

2 different times now i have "run into" T outside of sessions and both times i hid and slipped out when T's head was turned . Just felt weird , but had she been alone either time i think i would have been ok to say hi and walk by . She was with her family and i felt like speaking to her would have been sort of an intrusion in her life or something.

[deliquesce]

my pdoc lets things slip out about himself. he's so funny (in a laugh at kind of way ). he watches history documentaries for entertainment. tried to play football with his son once but broke his finger. has these little figurines that he talks to in the car, and he takes them on family vacations and introduces them to the relatives. god bless him, right?

i do have a hope that he is a perfect being outside of the therapy room. because the only other way i could imagine him is as a complete monster - i don't really understand the shades of grey in between that make people 'normal'.

[velcro003]

My T works out at the same gym I work for. I normally work in a different building, but I filled in for a month or so. So I had to check her in :eep I was so nervous the first day I knew I'd see her...but she just said hi and went on her way. It was fine after that.

i know a fair amount about my new t because she has so much info on her website and she has a home office, so i probably see her as being more normal than having an idealized picture of her. i really prefer it that way and i do like to know a little something about them. the first two ts i had i knew nothing about and i think that is just strange. i'm not sure that is actually helpful for the client. i don't feel that it was for me.

my last t was my same faith and quite open. i've found that to usually be the case with ts in my faith because we all see ourselves on the same level spiritually and it carries over to other areas like therapy. we sort of became friendly after therapy because of talking about faith things and forwarding emails et al. both she and my current t are much older but really great women who are rather out of the box, i.e. creative, funky, both teach classes, etc. they are very different from my family background but more like me than women i grew up around who were very conservative and more traditional.

gosh, i'm blabbering on and could write even more about my old mentor (she was a t but not in that role with me) and how we'd see each other at church and how it was. we even worked together too but she was only in the office one day a week.

[Simcha]

Originally Posted by hangingon

I was thinking lately about how we feel about our T's. You know how when you first meet someone, they may seem so cool but the more time you spend with them and the more you know about them, you think emm, they were not who I thought they were.

Anyways, I was thinking of the regarding T's. Like we see them one hour a week maybe two. They listen to our thoughts, needs, let us vent, create a safe enviornment for us ect. But I wonder what we would really think of them if we were to see their weaknesses. To have them snap at us about something. To see them disagree with their significant other, punish their children ect. I just wonder then how we would feel.

I think I am happy to only have that 1 hour with my T, because I would not want that bubble of how cool she is now bursted lol.....

Are you waiting for the other shoe to drop, so to speak? I think perhaps you are thinking that it is just a matter of time for your T to let you down somehow.

I'm happy to say that my T is a really consistent guy, and having known him for about two years now, he doesn't just "create" safety in session---he is like that all the time. He isn't perfect, but I think accepting that our T's are only human is a part of the challenge a lot of people have. Sometimes, they might drop the ball on accident, but trust is built on knowing that is the EXCEPTION and not the rule.

I guess I would say I'd be careful about putting our T's on a pedestal. No one is perfect, and devaluing our T's the minute they show they are real and not perfect flawless human specimens is really hyperjudgmental on our part. Unfortunately a lot of us do that because we have been hurt too many times before and thus find it difficult to trust.

I always say take it slow and go low... trust is earned; it isn't a given. Realizing that our T's are professionals and really do care, even if they don't live up to the person we MIGHT sometimes idealize them to be-- is just a part of trusting people in general.

That's my take on it.

[Simcha]

Originally Posted by sunrise

I do see my T outside of the hour. He is also the coach for my legal proceedings. I did have some reluctance at first to see him outside of his office. My fear was that I wouldn't know "how to be" around him on the outside. I was afraid I would be too used to our therapy relationship, and how open and feeling it is, and I wouldn't be able to be "normal" (whatever that means) if he was around. And since the legal goings on sometimes call for a hard edge and sharp thought, I was afraid there would be this conflict about how I am around T and what the legal meetings called for. I had all sorts of worries, lol.

I was getting rather tense about all this and not sure I was going to have T in this other role and what should happen in therapy one day, but something to ease my mind and reassure me. What happened was that T was all out of water bottles that day and I am a water-holic. He said he had a new case of water in his car and if I wanted we could go out to his car and bring in the water. My first reaction was no I don't want to waste my therapy minutes getting the water but almost immediately realized what a great opportunity this was. I could go outside of T's office and see how I would be with him. Would I be normal? Or what? It was like a trial run. So we went outside and walked to his car, which was a couple of blocks away. As we walked, we just talked about normal stuff, not deep and intense, sunny-centered therapy stuff. It was great. I was fine. He was fine. We were find together. I knew "how to be." When we got to his car, he had to clear the front seat off for me because it was piled with junk (a kindred spirit!) and I got in and we drove back, parked right in front of his building, and carried the water in. The whole thing was very natural and normal, and this helped convince me it would be OK if T was the legal coach.

That's my story. Sounds kind of silly. It turns out that seeing T outside the office has been just fine. He is pretty much the same guy outside as in. It is actually I who am a bit different and he has said he has enjoyed that. When I get in a group, I can want to amuse people, lol. I like to crack jokes to ease the tension, make things more convivial. I do not often do this when T and I are alone together. I am more serious then. He likes the joking part of me too. I remember the first time, he turned to me and said (as if surprised?), "that's very funny!" And then much the same later. I guess I gave him the impression in session that I was humorless.

Anyway, it's not all bad, seeing your T outside of his office!

My T is the same dude both inside and outside the office. It's really, really strange, but the luck of the draw has us knowing many of the same people on professional and academic levels... it's just---weird, but I actually have found this incredibly helpful!!!! Not only do I trust him all the more, but I don't have to take great pains to explain situations to him (and I have a MOUNTAIN of situational stuff going on for about a year now). I also like that he has such a thorough understanding of ADHD on a personal and professional level, as his son who is close to my age also has ADHD. So he knows it on a professional level, but understands it up close and personal experiencing the effects of it at home. This makes him a better T.

He also knows my hometown pretty well, as he has family from there and visits there often. He's even familiar with the elementary school I went to, as his in-law used to be the principle! I

I've had two deaths within the last year of people that I knew. One was murdered and it was very tragic, and the other one died of cancer--rather suddenly. He didn't know the one that was murdered personally, but he knew the community family and everything going on with the murder trial and the attorney's who were defending the defendant. Of the one who died of cancer he was actually his neighbor, so he knew him personally a little bit.

I found this comforting and rather invaluable.

He also has to deal with my university officials quite frequently with many of his patients, and it's really helpful that he knows who I talk about when I talk about XYZ administrator who needs to pull their head out of their arse Actually, he's helped them to pull their heads out of their arse on more than one occasion... I have many other situations where we share the same stuff, so to speak---which helps him to relate to me, which helps me put things into proper context and to run things by him and I KNOW without a shadow of a doubt that he WILL and DOES understand. In the event that he might not understand immediately, he wants to understand and REALLY tries to understand when I tell him that he doesn't get it.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

[hangingon]

No LOL, Im not waiting for the shoe to drop. I think she is great. As far as trust, I have a hard time trusting anyone. I still have a hard time talking in therapy and it's not like she is going to say things to people, or try to hurt me. I think it's just because I have been hurt by people really, really, close to me.

I don't have her on a pedestal lol, I know she is human. I am sure one day I will have a rupture with her but I am not looking forward to that.

[rainbow8]

I hope it's okay to reply to an older thread. I wasn't reading PC when this was posted, but I happened to notice it now.

My T and I see each other sometimes because we live in the same general community and we know a lot of the same people. It's been a challenge for me to see her but at the same time, I like it. She always says "hi" to me, and will talk to me briefly. We used to attend the same lecture series, but it was too distracting for me. I concentrated on her instead of the lecture. Once there were no seats and she sat next to me. I felt like a deer caught in car headlights! We discussed my feelings at my next session.

I always want to "find" her when we attend the same social functions. It's like I have to attach to "Mommy" for a few minutes and then I'm okay. She told me she doesn't mind that I do that. About a year after the incident where she sat next to me, we had occasion to sit next to each other again, in a different environment. It was like night and day! I felt so comfortable and at ease. We shared something together that day, and it was more valuable to me than many of my sessions! I needed to feel that peace and security with her so I wouldn't be afraid of seeing her in public. I have the memories of that day to warm my heart, always.

The hard part is that I have to "pretend" not to know her very well when I'm with other people. It's bittersweet in a way. It's like teasing me, sometimes. I want more than small talk, but of course I can't have it in a public place. It wouldn't be fair to her, either. She has good boundaries, so we can never be friends, even though I am seeing her for therapy only occasionally now.

As far as knowing how she is outside of therapy vs in therapy, she's pretty much the same. She's always been open about herself, and therapy is in her house, so I know a lot about her anyway. She dresses much more casually outside of therapy, though. That has taken some getting used to. But I see her as a regular woman like me, which is good. I am still too much attached to her, but it's not to some "idealized person"--it's to her, faults and all.