on hugging your therapist

bpd--I don't know that much about Borderline Personality Disorder or Bipolar Disorder to really determine if your T's behavior is "therapeutic" or not, but I do know that caution can be taken to an extreme by anybody (T's are not immune). I think it has to do with the Borderline PD thing though. I was reading a little about it and DBT because I'm not that familiar with it. I would be really upset at that type of therapy though whether I had personality disorder issues or not (and I don't that I know of but I am now horrified of being labeled as such!).

Do you like it when he sits close then? Sometimes I sit close to my T and sometimes not. Sometimes I just get tired of the same old spot on the couch or sometimes I want a more personal, "intimate" (if you will) proximity for the topic at hand and I move in closer (again, with no desire to touch in any way). Other times I'm petrified and move further away. However, if I felt that my T was moving AWAY FROM ME, I would then feel a little uncomfortable and I might even begin to question his concern and ability to help me.

Sometimes though people just read too much into something. Maybe your T is doing that? Or maybe it is a DBT thing? Or maybe both?

bpd2

beware pf "should by now"....... in therapy there is no such thing. Please don't beat yourself up for taking the time you need for things to change; it's different for everyone.

Thanks, SenatorPenguin--I do the proximity thing with the couch too. But I think it should be me who's doing that stuff, too, not him....Usually, I like it that his chair is pretty far away. That one time is the only time he's come closer to sit. Other times he's been close it's been to reach for something, and too often I've flinched away due to the emotional space. I was reading a description of borderline at a transference therapy site (a therapy that is often helpful for borderlines), and it said that borderlines have emotional reactions in relationships due to deeply ingrained childhood connections among type of incident, emotional reaction, and sense of self. I haven't talked to him about that paradigm--just learned about it in that way. I wonder if that's what's going on...even if only intuitively--that is, that he acts as he does because he is more aware than I of what I "do" with any one moment. I hate that if it's true....I hate not being a fool about what is really happening, not what I think is happening. That's part of what therapy is for, though. But, good grief, I don't even know what he's thinking! Another reason to talk to him about it, not just feel as I do!
Thank you for looking into the borderline and DBT stuff. I appreciate that very much.

thank you, sittingatwatersedge. Should is tricky....

Penguin- Although I tend to agree with your statement that "why would you want to hug your T"? Although mine is the opposite gender and our hugs consisted of celebrations. They weren't enjoyable for me. However I can also see where people would essentially need or want hugs. In general it's more about love language. To some people, touch is their love language. It's how they show people they care. Putting their hand on someones shoulder, or playing with their daughters hair, etc. But in someone who has a mental illness the love language may go unnoticed, or uncared for. Like in PTSD, where one may fear touch, or in illnesses where one might socially isolate.

WOW. I can not wrap my mind around this. I don't know if it sounds blaming, or...what? But it just really upsets me.

Is your therapist worried that he is unable to hold good boundaries? If my T said that to me, I honestly don't think I could continue therapy with him. I would hate it if he implied that touching me would somehow lead to something bad.

I hug my (opposite sex) T, and it is safe and healing. It has taught me that touch CAN be safe, that it DOESN'T have to lead to being hurt. I was in therapy for a long time before the idea of touch (or even close proximity in the room) didn't totally freak me out...but over time, as I've learned to trust T and to feel safe, getting a hug at the end of session has been healing. To be hugged, and then to come back to the next session and find that nothing has changed, that T is still T and I am still safe, is huge. I was abused as a child, and it's like this ongoing process of unlearning something I learned a long time ago. Every time I hug T at the end of session and then come to the next session to find the same safe T and the same safe relationship, I think I heal a little more inside.

I'm sorry your T said that to you, and I hope that you can see that that is HIS issue and not yours. It just sounds so painful

YES!!!!! ((((((TREE)))) Thank you so much for saying it this way!
That is exactly how I feel too !!!!!!

Yesterday at the end of session (T and I both knowing we were not going to see eachother for 2 wks), we had a slightly longer hug at the end - more like 4 whole seconds rather than 2 seconds! It was powerful for me because I felt like he was telling me that he would continue to hold me in his heart until we met again. And it was wonderful because of what you just said! I KNOW that the next time I see my T, that he will be the "same safe" T who was there yesterday for me. That the hug - even the extra long hug - did not change him or make him fear me or make him think I was bad or that he wasn't safe with me or whatever else. That he is the SAME safe T !!!

Thanks so much for saying it this way!

yes tree, thanks for mentioning that. it's helpful to have another person's take on it.

(this is the little thread that won't quit, it seems! )

Treehouse--I will never forget what he said and how toxic it made me feel--and it immediatly sexualized any touching, I think. It seems whacko. The only way it could not be his problem is if he meant touching would lead me into some sort of delusion and then we'd have to work through that. I don't know how valid that idea is. I don't think it's valid, and if it were valid, I think the point of therapy is to work through this stuff. I think about leaving him a lot. More and more. The whole last year has been really painfull. I think he thinks I shouldn't need so much emotional support after this long with him, that I should have friends for that, or be getting it from my family. Maybe that is shame/guilt talking. I don't feel smart about this at all, just confused and hurt...and afraid.

My T will always give me a hug if I ask her, the first time i asked i was afraid she would say no but she said "A hug? Ofcourse you can have a hug!" I didn't want tolet go of her during that hug. I cried and she told me that I would be ok and that I am stronger than I think I am. She is like a mom to me.

not even a handshake, that is sad. why does my T think she couldn't even do this for me, either, ever again?! how does this really help me get past my issues of shame, trust, fear of emotional AND physical intimacy?

I like this, touching as a sign of respect.....and a sign and symbol of the connection, the mutual respect and trust that needs to be between T and client.....

I feel like not sitting close to her when I go to session Tues....it feels like it would be safer to sit further away. I thought I had moved closer to her.....yet now I feel she has moved away from me in a way, and it makes me feel like some physical distance too would be better for a while as well. Sitting too close at this time might be more hurtful than helpful, I don't know....

yes, I have felt her moving AWAY from me for several weeks, actually....and it hurts, and this no-touch decision makes it hurt worse....

Yup.....afraid is how I feel....
looking back through old threads to find support/help for my current situation and came across this.....OMG, now I can relate SO thoroughly to these quotes! Like the above quotes, I feel like mainly my T's decision is related to the borderline tendencies I have.....and the message it leaves is sort of as though I were toxic or that it might be toxic to me actually to keep hugging me. When actually it is seeming more toxic to me to send me the message that it isn't safe for me to have touch in therapy, from her, that it isn't good for me to have this emotional need met in a safe way in a safe place......and it definitely feels toxic to have had permission to ask for what I need, to have had the need met, and then to have it revoked.
Granted, there is the fact of my sexuality and my confusion about my feelings toward her, but given that her hugs were emotionally grounding and not sexual to me at all, I don't understand at the moment why that, or I, was all so wrong that ALL touch had to be revoked forever.....why forever?!
Sorry, I am still trying hard to work through, accept it, but I think in some ways I am wanting to feel that my pain and my doubtful feelings about the rightness of her decision are worthy of validation.....not really bitter or angry, but struggling, yes, struggling very much. Confused and afraid.....
Sorry that I am dwelling a lot on this and not being the support I ought to be.....I promise, I will get back to being a better supporter and less of a whiner.

I, too, was just flabbergasted when I read that. It's like he put it back on you for feeling the way you feel and refused any ownership at all.

Oh good lord. I am soooooo sorry. I soooo do not think there is any place at all for shame in therapy. We put enough of that crap on ourselves.

Have you talked to him about this?

All this hugging talk has got me thinking about my own therapy. You know, I still sit as far away from my therapist as I possibly can in my sessions. Bam, here I go, right into the corner.

I'm going to move closer next time and see how all that works out. I'm sure he'll notice.....

He probably will....and will want to talk about why and what it means..... But I think it would be a good step, showing trust, showing that trust is is growing, trust in the therapy and in him as your T!

We do shake hands at the end of each session, and sometimes he will give me a little pat or something on the shoulder and that's definitely in the safe zone.

One time I moved over to his chair to show him a picture and he patted me then too.

We have hugged, but, well, not so much in the way of me enjoying it or relaxing into it.

perhaps something to explore - well at least sitting closer to him.

Me and T hug after every session, sinse the first session, I love it, it feels very motherly to me, Ive known her for 3 years now. Shes a very touchy person, and I dont mind it, its not inappropriate touching. If I have to bring my daughter she will let her sit on her lap and gives her hugs and kisses too. My daughter loves her because shes lovable too.
beth

Oh, PG, please do not add to your worries about being a better supporter. We all take turns here 'whining' although I don't think that's the appropriate word. We suffer and we reach out. And, of course, we're going to keep dwelling on something that hurts so badly. And, from personal experience, I know that stuffing the emotions does not lead to healing. Continue on - it's exploring one of those 'rooms in the castle'.

Yes.
It's great
It was wonderful
Still the same.

I think that must be where I'm at...I am very phobic about being touched and very relieved that my T has strict no-touch policies. Thanks Tree for that insight, I never thought about it like that before

Originally Posted by treehouse
I thought touch was either sexual or something that would hurt me (other than hugs with my kids, of course). It's been really really healing to find out that touch can just be about comfort and connection and caring and that's it -

Yes, this is it for me, too, I relate to this so well! this is what touch means to me.....I need it in this sense.

Strict no touch policy with patients, except for when they extend for a handshake. This is fine with me because touch really freaks me out. T felt so much safer after I heard the rule!

poetgirl, do not worry about supporting anyone right now. What you post is helpful to a lot of us anyway, though for your sake I wish you weren't going through it at all! It makes me wonder about my therapy and the touching. My former T obviously thought "borderlines" couldn't be touched; my new T obviously doesn't "do" diagnoses and thinks touch is healing. Even with my sexual feelings, she hugs me. Every T is different. I wouldn't like it if my T would stop letting me touch her. It's helpful to me to see that touch does not have to be sexual.

I hope that you have a productive session and that your T addresses all of your feelings about what she's done. You have a right to tell her and to feel cheated about her taking away the hugs "forever."

thank you, rainbow.....I want to be able to tell her how healing it was that she did hug me, and that I am going to miss that terribly, and how much forever hurts.....sort of like the feeling that T considers me untouchable forever. and I say, but why?! what can have the power of a hug with the words 'it will be OK'......together very strong, but what can be so strong in its place for me? yes, I still feel cheated....
I am so glad your T does touch you and I can see how much you have grown and healed in the time I have been posting here....the power of touch is awesome.

Poetgirl - is T the only person where you've received the power of touch? Or is it powerful because it comes from your T?

If it's hugs and touch, do you experience that with your friends or your family? Even so, they must not fulfill you in the same way. Have you thought why?

What does a hug mean? It means "I accept you", It's gonna be okay", "I'm here for you", etc....It also represents love, protection, and comfort. A hug tells you that someone cares about you and that you have the support of that person.

So what is the big deal that therapists cannot 'touch' a client? I know there must be some psychological reason, but I am also sure this has something to do with being careful so as not to be sued if a hug is interpreted the wrong way.

Then again, there are dentists and doctors who hug their patients all the time. I am interested to find out where this boundary really originates.