[mixedup_emotions]

I have such conflicting feelings right now....and they are overwhelming.

Had a session with T on Thursday, and we stepped out of the therapist/client relationship - and into more of a professional exchange about some other endeavors he is working on.

He gave me a gift in exchange for my expertise....and I spent quite a bit of time putting together my thoughts on the project he is working on and turned it around in just over a day. He was impressed with my work ethic....

He also suggested that I help him with another project that he is thinking about doing....which seems to be more involved in a more permanent way - outside the T/client relationship, and more into a working together kind of relationship.

I found myself excited....stressed....scared....

Much of what I do is to please others, satisfy others, work towards being valued....and then I start telling myself awful things - like I don't know what I'm doing, I'm a disappointment....that I have nothing to contribute....that I'm not smart enough, doing enough, worthy enough...ACK! I told T that my work ethic doesn't seem to come from a healthy place, and he wanted me to elaborate...which I did with the above. I know it's important for me to address....but it seems like such a conflicting place for me with him....

And then to think that my relationship with T will not be what it is or has been....a relationship where there is little in the way of professional expectations....this idea - although exciting - helps me feel so so so afraid of losing what I have with T....

But then again, in the long run, it could mean a longer term relationship with T outside of the client/T relationship....Isn't that what a lot of clients hope for? Yet, it scares me to death.

I am so frazzled right now.

[(JD)]

Is your therapist licensed? I would check to see if even what he is suggesting or has done is ethical. http://www.goodtherapy.org/ethics-therapy.html

Dual relationships are frowned upon in most cases. They were added to allowance at times because of small town issues, where it is common to see and meet and maybe even work with patient/therapist on a town project, at church, etc.

But to seek after such a dual relationship is unethical in my opinion. This is not in your own best interest, sorry. Yes, your therapy relationship will suffer, and already as you relate this, the trust issue has diminished. Sorry the T stepped over the line and failed to hold the boundaries for you.

[jexa]

MUE, I'm not sure why your T is doing this. Is there no one else who can help him with this project? How will you open up to him about the stuff you keep locked away when you are also in a professional relationship, exchanging money, etc? This is so tricky. Has T talked to you about how you feel about the dual relationship? Have you told him that you are not sure how you feel about it? I can see why you are struggling with this.

[Oceanwave]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

He also suggested that I help him with another project that he is thinking about doing....which seems to be more involved in a more permanent way - outside the T/client relationship, and more into a working together kind of relationship.

I found myself excited....stressed....scared....

But then again, in the long run, it could mean a longer term relationship with T outside of the client/T relationship....Isn't that what a lot of clients hope for? Yet, it scares me to death.

I am so frazzled right now.

Hi there,
This is definitely not a good idea. My advice would be to avoid dual relationships if you can. You can get hurt and lose the support your therapist can otherwise offer. As I hear this is alread causing you some distress and anxiety. Who is going to help you with that?? I'm sorry that your T initiated something like this.

[mixedup_emotions]

Thanks, everyone, for your feedback. I have a lot to think about. I do know that this is causing me a LOT of turmoil. I am going to try to be as honest as I can with T. I made him aware of what it stirs up in me as far as wanting to please, not feeling good enough, etc. But I'm finding that there's a whole lot more to this.....

I do believe that his intentions are genuine...and he was clear when he asked me for my expertise about this project, that he didn't want to add any pressure and to only do it if it is enjoyable and constructive for me, or else it wouldn't be worth it to him.

Little did I know, it was going to stir up so much for me. UGH. If it was another time, another place, another situation....but the reality is, he is my T.

There was a time in the past when he was really trying to get me to push myself to get out of my current job situation, because of the abusive environment - and he said that once he got his side project up and running, he would have a job for me. He said that I have so much potential to do great things. So, I do believe his actions are coming from a place of caring.

The code of ethics are a tricky topic. Although dual relationships seem to be frowned upon, there are instances where it is acceptable. Of course, it cannot be to the detriment of the client/T relationship which is of the utmost importance....And I can already see that it's affecting me - big time.

Hopefully, we'll be able to use this to help me with the hurdle of my own self-esteem issues....my constant quest to please people, satisfy people, feel worthy (without getting it from within)...and then my fears of letting people down, not being good enough, etc...and then the ANTs that come from within the deepest parts of me, telling me how I'm a failure, just a joke, that people just tolerate me, I have nothing of value, I'm worthless, have no talent, etc.

mixed, i think this is not a good idea. my experience with a dual relationship with my T ended up precipitating the end of my therapy. my T taught an artists' way class but it was super small--three of us. the first lady dropped out because of health issues, then i later needed to as well for health reasons. my leaving would have left only one person so my T tried to basically get me to stay in the class. she totally acted in a way that was so not in my best interest and really triggered me. it was completely untherapeutic and i just didn't feel like i could go back to her as a T after she broke my trust like that. i had never had a rupture with a T before in all the years i've done therapy. it was a very upsetting thing to go through to see my T act in a way that was so harmful to me considering my background which she was fully aware of.

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

Hopefully, we'll be able to use this to help me with the hurdle of my own self-esteem issues....my constant quest to please people, satisfy people, feel worthy (without getting it from within)...and then my fears of letting people down, not being good enough, etc...and then the ANTs that come from within the deepest parts of me, telling me how I'm a failure, just a joke, that people just tolerate me, I have nothing of value, I'm worthless, have no talent, etc.

i hate to be pessimistic but i think the complete opposite will more likely happen. all those issues you mention will come up and because you are working for your T it will make it very difficult to address them in the relationship. honestly mixed, this can likely jeopardize your therapy. the comment you made about him wanting to give you a job sounds like your T wants to rescue you. that's just not his job. it sounds like you've finished the current work project so this is a good time to end the dual relationship if you want to preserve your T relationship.

[deliquesce]

mixed, i hate to jump in with everyone else because i know there is a part of you that is happy about this development also BUT i really don't think this is going to work very well at all.

austin-t has asked me to do things for him in the past, and i can relate so so so much to the feelings you're expressing. of course our Ts know us well enough to know that we'll do a good job, but we're going to put extra pressure on ourselves because they are our Ts.

like your T, austin-t only asked me because his intentions are genuine - he needed a job done, and he wanted to help me out. like your T, he's also told me there is a job waiting for me (when i've finished my honours year). having gone through the agony of helping him out once (unlike you, i wasn't able to do my work as expected; i was depressed, and when i'm depressed i'm unable to work - austin-t knows this, but still i was letting him down...) i don't think i'd ever want to do it again.

rather - i've told myself that i can accept his job offer, when we've terminated the therapist/client relationship. i would really like to have finished being his client by the end of next year (lolol deli putting a time limit on trauma processing), but it would mean i could then enter into a professional relationship with him and no longer be vulnerable.

although Ts intentions are genuine and caring and coming from a place of wanting to help, it doesn't necessarily mean this is the best thing for you, mixed. T can find someone else to do the work, and you can find a different job with the amazing skills that you have. i really, really dont want to see you enter into this and find that you're T relationship is no longer a safe place for you.

[googley]

I agree with the others. There is really no acceptance of dual roles outside situations where people are in small towns and there is no other option. And directly working for a T would still be considered out of the question even in a small town.

You are already feeling uncomfortable with the situation. I think this should be a sign that it isn't something you should do.

[Laurie1041]

Dear Mixedup,

In my opinion, your T made a bad move. Not good, considering that as a professional he knows that he has a fiduciary responsibility to his clients. If he needs some work done, he can go hire someone. His responsibility is to provide a safe, therapeutic environment - not to hire his clients to do work for him.

It is no wonder that you feel conflicted. Go with your gut - I think you will find that you feel very empowered. Hugs, Laurie

[RyuB]

you could always tell him how you are feeling (you could omit the part about the future relationship) and just discuss the working together outside the doctor-patient relationship. then you could ask him if it causes a conflict, and should you maybe seek another doctor in order to keep working with him.

dang, that sounds so simple but i think would be very hard to actually do

[mixedup_emotions]

I am freaking out.....total panic mode....This is NOT how I expected to be feeling.

I just sent T an email saying that I'm feeling really, really, REALLY awful about it...and asked that we just forget that I sent those documents to him. I told him that I'm ok with him using whatever info was useful, but I just want to forget that this ever happened....

ACK....I can't believe how much awfulness is being stirred up by all this.

[rainbow8]

I think you did the right thing by emailing your T. I hope he responds professionally and you can get back to him being your T and not anything else. I'm sorry this has caused you so much distress, MUE.

[googley]

(((((((((MUE)))))))))))

I'm so sorry that his behavior has caused you so much turmoil. I'm glad you told him instead of hiding it. That is strength and healthy. Good job standing up for yourself. I believe that this is really hard. But you have done such a good job.

[Dr.Muffin]

this seems like a really inappropriate blurring of boundaries.....

[Dr.Muffin]

Originally Posted by Dr.Muffin

this seems like a really inappropriate blurring of boundaries.....

im glad you let him know you didnt want to do this. that was incredibly brave and im sure very difficult to do. *hugs*

[mixedup_emotions]

Thanks....

I really can't believe how awful I am feeling about all this. I am still in TOTAL panic mode....and I know he'll want to talk about it during my next session, but I don't know what I would say. I really don't even know what I'm feeling. It's so...well...mixed up!

I'm sitting here thinking, what is WRONG with ME???? Why on earth am I feeling this way? He merely asked for my expertise....how could something so simple and innocent stir up such panic and fear in me?

(((((((mixed))))))))

sorry to hear you are so freaked out by this. you can always print out your first post, or even this whole thread, and take it to your next session in case you don't know what to say. i think you're panicked because you know that T has crossed a line even if he is doing it with the best of intentions. i do think this situation can be easily rectified though. T just needs some clarity about boundaries. supervision might be a good idea for him right now.

[deliquesce]

((((((((((((((((mixedup))))))))))))))))))))))

[Melbadaze]

Yes a feeling of excitement and fear would be triggered around crossing boundaires, actually reminds me of the feeling of abuse, feeling special on one hand but hurt on the other, I'm sure you will make the right choice.

[Dr.Muffin]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

Thanks....

I really can't believe how awful I am feeling about all this. I am still in TOTAL panic mode....and I know he'll want to talk about it during my next session, but I don't know what I would say. I really don't even know what I'm feeling. It's so...well...mixed up!

I'm sitting here thinking, what is WRONG with ME???? Why on earth am I feeling this way? He merely asked for my expertise....how could something so simple and innocent stir up such panic and fear in me?

i think its more than the simple request....i think the panic comes from the (perceived) ramifications of your refusal. that is why he should never had made it in the first place. this is likely bringing up all kinds of past traumas in which you werent allowed to say no or you were punished for refusing and so forth. and even if he is okay with you saying no, its gonna take some time to process what this brought up for you. it CAN be turned into a learning experience for theapy, but he should never have put you in this position in the first place.

[(JD)]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

I am freaking out.....total panic mode....This is NOT how I expected to be feeling.

I just sent T an email saying that I'm feeling really, really, REALLY awful about it...and asked that we just forget that I sent those documents to him. I told him that I'm ok with him using whatever info was useful, but I just want to forget that this ever happened....

ACK....I can't believe how much awfulness is being stirred up by all this.

It's all okay. You're still safe. You've done nothing wrong! This is something licensed Ts are trained in avoiding, and it's the T's work to fix this.

This is exactly why these types of relationships are so frowned upon. But yes, you do now both need to fully discuss this, and reestablish the boundary. If you've been seeing this T for a while, and T agrees to not cross or come close to such a boundary again, then you can both move into a good therapeutic relationship again.

I think you may always be afraid he might mislead you in the future, but you're probably more vigilant about it now.

You have to discuss this and make it a therapy session.

[lizardlady]

I'm going to weigh in with the others who said they did not think this is a good idea. Listen to your inner voice. You said this is causing conflict for you. That's a clear sign this is not a healthy choice for you.

[WikidPissah]

(((MUE))) I am so sorry this has caused you so much stress, and that it's been such a trigger for you. Please realize it is T who crossed the line not you, it is NOT your fault that you are feeling all these things. I know you have had a good relationship with T in the past, and I think you can get back there.

[mixedup_emotions]

Thanks, everyone....

I don't want to feel upset towards T as if he "did something wrong"....It just seems so innocent...and him wanting to help me get involved in something possibly more rewarding...I don't know. I'm just so conflicted at the moment....still...

I am still going around in circles wondering why this is upsetting me so much...why I have such anxiety and fear....and how I'm blowing his all out of proportion....

...and because of these cruddy feelings, I may be giving up an opportunity to do some great things with T who is so driven and successful...a great role model for me...yet it feels so awful to delve outside of the client/T relationship....I am afraid of learning what he's really like outside of therapy....

[Fartraveler]

(((MUE)))

I do agree with the others -- the dual relationship thing won't work -- the therapy relationship is such a special and unique relationship -- can't really combine it with a work relationship, or a friendship relationship, etc.

I am sorry this is so stressful for you.

Take care,
-Far