Rupture

You need to take a break from your t, and your t needs a break from you. Don't keep calling. That's just shooting yourself in the foot. Take some time. Distract yourself with other pursuits. WAIT until you see t next week.

I think pachy's advice was very wise...do nothing. And farmergirl's too...distract yourself and do not call anymore. Take care of yourself, use skills, be gentle with yourself. And go to the ER if you cannot keep yourself safe.

Zoo, just sounds like you have been through the wringer.....
i wish i could take all of your pain away....
i have no answers and no suggestions, just want you to know you are not alone... PC is here, keep posting, do what is safe for you...

sending safe hugs over and over and over and over again....

I know it's not like my t to hang up on me. Its not as if I was yelling or being abusive, so I also know I don't deserve that treatment. That is about all I do know at this point.

and that we care and are here to support you and offer whatever help and encouragement we can.....

Were you trying to talk to her about the issues between you two?

You mentioned that she said she didn't want to process that until your session on Monday.....were you respectful of that boundary that she set?

It must feel incredibly difficult and unsettling to be without resolution, but it is actually wise for your T to insist on waiting until your session. It is something that is best to be talked about in person.

(((((((((zoo))))))))))))

((((( zoo )))))

Maybe it would be a good idea to go to the ER....If your T cannot help you right now because of your own issues, hopefully there's someone who can available to you....

I hate that this is happening to you....

I was trying to be respectful of the boundaries she set, in fact I had just asked her if it was okay to talk about the kids. She said she has to "focus on skills management because"...and then she stopped. I said, "because of what, and how is this not skills management? I need to know what the boundary is." That's when she hung up.

I can't go to the ER. There is no help for me there. I'm not sui, anyway. Yes, I'm using other negative coping including SI, but I'm not in danger of my life or whatever. I'll get through this, it just really really hurts.

(((((Zoo))))

I wish there was some way to help.

I am sorry you are hurting.

-Far

I'm sorry too, zoo. From your past posts, you and your T have had a good relationship so there must be something else going on. Monday will get here and you will be able to talk in person with her. I know you're hurting very badly and wish I could say the right thing but I don't know what it is.

I talked to several friends, including you people, and decided to take a chance and text my T one more time. I simply said "I'm being reminded to check the facts. I'm assuming you meant to hang up on me. Maybe that's not the case. If it's not, having that information would certainly help me."

She wrote back and said "I certainly did not mean to hang up on u. I thought u hung up on me."



I can't even tell you how much better that makes me feel. I don't even know if I believe it's 100% true, honestly, but I want to believe it and so I will. I wrote back and said "I've been freaking out all afternoon thinking you hung up on me. Seriously. Wow."

This just seemed like one thing too many. Taking it out of the equation, there are still issues that I need to work on with T but I don't feel so hopeless about it. FINALLY, finally, finally, something good to hold on to.

so glad you have this answer, zoo..... please hold on to this and let yourself rest now......

(((((((((Zoo))))))))

I'm glad you found out that she did not hang up on you. That much be such a relief. I hope this helps you make it through until Monday.

Also, if either of you is using Verizon I know (at least in my area) they have been having cell coverage problems. I and my friends have had multiple phone calls dropped today.

Take care of yourself.

((zoo)) so glad you are feeling better!

T does use verizon, actually. I think if it was any other week I would not have assumed she hung up on me, or vice versa. But it was kind of the perfect storm, so to speak.

I just got this text from T: It feels awkward and messy, but nothing we can't weather. Today is my bday, I need to take the rest of the night off. Call tomorrow if u want or need 2. G'night.

Zoo, I'm glad that your T cleared that up for you...but something just does NOT sit right with me about all of this. I hope that she is just going through a rough spot right now and can sort it out, but it makes me uneasy.

Between your T and MUE's therapist...

(((((Zoo))))) I think it is wonderful how you used your skills to question the facts !!!!
That is beyond awesome!!! VERY good job!!!

I'm glad your T didn't hang up on you! When I read your post about that conversation, with her stopping mid-sentence, I was going to suggest that maybe you got disconnected, but I didn't want to get your hopes up. I'm glad it worked out that way, though.

Her text sounded reassuring, especially giving you the okay to call. It sounds to me like she gets overly involved with clients and then gets overwhelmed. Reminds me of my T answering every part of my emails in detail because she said she "agonizes" over them and wants to give me therapeutic answers, but then realizing that it's too much for her and ultimately not good for either of us.

I hope she can "give her parts what they need", to use Internal Family Systems terminology, so that you and she can work it out.

it makes me uneasy, too. I'm glad she didn't hang up on me yesterday, but that doesn't explain the whole way she has been interacting with me this week. I don't know what's going on with her. I don't know if I'm going to my session on Monday to find out. I just don't know.

I did sleep better last night, and woke up feeling lighter without the horrible conflict-with-T feelings. I know my truth, which is that last week I only called T once. When I saw her on Monday, she asked why I hadn't called her and said she had been concerned because she hadn't heard from me. So I know that if she is burned out, it's not because of me.

T needs to do a better job of taking care of herself so she can do the work she does. I know it is hard being a T, and a DBT T in particular. I could not do it. But I'm not forcing her to do it, and I'm not asking for more than is the norm in DBT.

I know T cares about me and I care about, respect and admire her. And I don't know if I can continue seeing her. I am hurt and feel my trust was violated. I trust T to set boundaries in a healthy way and to keep my best interest in mind when she's interacting with me. I trust T to keep her word and to not offer me things she is unable or unwilling to provide.

Remember that email I sent T, cancelling my session for Mon? I got this email in reply from her yesterday afternoon:

There is a lot in there that I feel good about, especially where she says I didn't do anything wrong, and that she's not quitting on me. But...where is the ownership of her own actions? Why is this all my fault? I think we just have 2 very different perceptions of what went on and I don't know if sitting in a room and trying to hash it out will even work. I have seen the defensive, angry side of T before. I'm not interested in meeting boot-camp-T again.

So. I don't know. I feel better, but not good. I don't think I'm going to group tomorrow. I don't know what to do about Monday.

zoo, I'm so sorry this is happening to you. It sounds like a deeply horrible thing to be going through.

It's not clear to me from her email whether this limit:

"We discuss what you experienced, what skills you implemented, and explore others you could implement in the future, and that's it."

is for what she will discuss during phone contact, until you can meet face to face, or whether she will limit the face-to-face discussion to these topics. If this is all she will discuss face to face, then I agree that it is worrying that she won't discuss her part in what has happened- especially when she has been consistently communicating to you that she hasn't managed her limits well.

Sending you strength to see a way forward...

I understand your feelings, when we get attached to our T because of the relation we have with them, it's a natural response to the situation.....however one needs to step back & really look at what really happened. It's so easy for our emotions to blow the situations we are in out of proportion.....need to stop & look at all sides of the situation starting from the beginning conversation which was where all your emotions came from.

If your T didn't feel that she did anything out of line then obviously she wouldn't feel that she had done anything wrong & there initially there weren't any actions that she needed to own. You need to listen to her & HEAR what she has to say without your mind closing off everything she has to say. Sometimes minds are so sure that they are right, they don't hear anything else that anyone else has to say. You need to be open to the fact that maybe your perception of what happened might not be 100% correct & not go in on Monday with a closed mind putting all the responsibility of what happened on your T.

It's sort of like driving on the freeway....there are times when we might make a mistake in our driving that causes someone behind us to end up in an accident that we are completely unaware of because we weren't physically involved in the accident even though it was something in our driving that caused another driver to react & end up in an accident.

Your T (the driver whose driving initiated the accident) who is continuing about her business....oblivious to the fact that she had the effect that she had on you......you (the auto accident that was caused by the unaware driver) are devistated by how your T responded on the phone. Know it doesn't feel good & your reaction is understandable.....but just like the driver, think your T had no idea of the accident she caused or she would have called by now.

How is she going to know how you feel if you don't talk to her about it since she is not aware of how you are reacting let along the fact that it doesn't seem like she's aware that she even did anything that would have bothered you. Communication is very important in situations like this. If you don't express your hurt....you just sit there stewing in it & end up hurting more & more......while T doesn't even know that she did anything or even that you are hurting the way you are.

Too many times we allow situations like this to destroy relationships. Similar situations happen in marriages between husband & wife also. Without the communication about feelings & how things effect you, there is no way that others can read our minds.......need to communicate with your T about your feelings. Not sure why her reaction was the way it was.....but sure in her mind, she has her own rational as to why she did what she did or she wouldn't have done it either.....doesn't mean it's right......but understanding that there was something going on with her at that time is also a good place to start & sort it out together at your next appointment. No need to throw everything away because of a misunderstanding on all parts.

Interesting, I experiences a similar situation....I was asked for my opinion on something.....when I finally decided to figure out what my opinion was & end of giving my opinion, I was accused of criticizing when I was very careful NOT to criticize...but the other person saw it that way. Anything I tried to say in my defense ended up being attacked along with other things that had absolutely Nothing to do with the situation. So I stopped all communication. Awhile later the person wanted to heal the friendship......what I realized was that the person only wanted me to apologize for the criticizing that she accused me of which was something that I didn't do. Apologizing for something that I know I didn't do isn't something that I am capable of doing. The boundaries that were crossed were on her accusations.....needless to say, it was impossible to resolve anything in that relationship....but if the other person had really been willing to see the situation from all sides....I saw all sides & understood where that person was coming from & knew that if I ended up apologizing for something that I didn't do in would only be encouraging more of that behavior. Don't think that person will ever change, but it they ever are willing to step back, then they will be able to see the reality of what happened.

It's a difficult place to be in when communication is difficult....but seeing & understanding all sides is very important....going back to your initial phone conversation that caused the problem in the first place.

Wishing you the best at your appointment on Monday.....it's important to go & work through this & let your mind be open to see things in a different way than the way it's looking at things right now......those Ah ha moments are really awesome when we end up seeing things more clearly & getting those emotions put where they belong.

Zoo, it is going to be hard, however IMHO i think you should go to t appt on monday and listen to what she has to say. if she owns up to her part, the relationship may be able to be repaired.

if you skip Monday, it may be possible that you will be wondering what happened or could have happened for a very long time. and if you do go and find out you cannot get it resolved you can at the very least tell yourself that you did try one more time.

i am going to see t on monday as well. he hurt my feelings and my guess (though i really don't want to admit it) is he probably has no idea how or why....

(afraid to say anything to him at the time he is doing it~trying learn how my feelings are justified)

i will be thinking of you, sending lots and lots of safe hugs

((((((((((((Zoo))))))))))))))

I hope you will decide to go on Monday.

T is right...this is the kind of thing that can only be repaired face to face. T and I had a rupture once that he refused to discuss over e-mail, so we had a phone call, and then, finally a session, and just being able to converse in real time, see each others reactions, ask questions, get answers, share feelings..all of that..helped a lot. We couldn't have done that if we weren't sitting in the same room.

I know you don't want to go in there and get "boot camp T"....I SO get that. But if you don't go, you won't get ANY T. And who knows who will be there on Monday? She might not even be in "boot camp T" mode. And if she is, you can tell her you need something different, or you can ask why she feels like she needs to be boot camp T right now, or you can listen to her and give her your honest reaction to whatever she's saying.

You are right that it is her responsibility to make sure she is doing enough self-care, and especially if she is working as a DBT T, which requires so much more availability than a non-DBT T. I bet she is figuring that out herself right now as well. I know for me that when I'm figuring things like that out (I need more balance, I need more self-care, whatever) there can be a period of kind of floundering around while I'm still reeling from letting myself get overwhelmed and trying to find my footing in my new way of doing things. I wonder if T was in that spot. It's not an excuse...her responsibility IS to take care of herself so that she can be there...I guess I just keep mulling this over and wondering what the heck is going on.

Monday is coming. You'll never know if it will help to see her unless you go and see her. Maybe you should give yourself that chance.

groupT called me today to see how I am and to talk to me about whether I am going to group tomorrow. She asked me if I have had any contact with T recently (in the last 24 hrs), so I told her about the hang-up situation, both of us thinking the other had hung up.

I told her too about the email I got from T and how I am unsure about whether I'm going to see T on Monday or not. Group T encouraged me to come to group tomorrow to practice the DBT skill of Cope Ahead. Basically, to talk about the situation with T and to plan how I want things to go on Monday and what skills to use, etc. I agreed that it would be beneficial to me to know that, if I decide to see T on Monday, I will be going in as skillfully as possible.

I told group T that I would come tomorrow, and we talked briefly about the situation with M, the only other regular group member at this time. Group T agrees that it is not ideal for me, or anyone, to be in a group of only 2 people. but she said that there is a DBT skills group ending this month and that some of those people will be invited to join this group. (the group I am in is for people who have completed the usual 1-yr skills training group).

Anyway. That's the situation. I'm not positive I will go to group tomorrow, but I probably will. It's over an hour each way to drive from my home to Ts office, so it is sort of a hardship. I don't know about seeing T on Monday yet, but I do know that every other time I have thought I wasn't going to my next session I have ended up changing my mind by the time the session rolls around.