[skysblue]

...or be confrontational. I'm worried I may have been too honest and said too much about how her words hurt me. I was even sarcastic at one point and now I regret that. I think I need to be more careful how I express myself in session and think about how my words could affect her. I also don't want to be seen as the difficult client so I will try to be more attentive and cautious before I speak.

I bet your T can handle it. T's are trained to handle lots and lots of different responses from people.
And heck, we are sarcastic, tempermental, ornery, etc with our T all the time. I have DID and one of the inside teenagers is CONSTANTLY giving our T a hard time.
Maybe if you feel you said something wrong, just say I'm sorry I said that, and then move on.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by SarahMichelle

I bet your T can handle it. T's are trained to handle lots and lots of different responses from people.
And heck, we are sarcastic, tempermental, ornery, etc with our T all the time. I have DID and one of the inside teenagers is CONSTANTLY giving our T a hard time.
Maybe if you feel you said something wrong, just say I'm sorry I said that, and then move on.

Having DID, you have a good excuse. I have none and I don't want to be dishing out criticism (overt or subtle). Sure, she can handle it but I don't want her to have to 'handle' stuff from me. I guess I want to be the 'delightful' client and not the 'difficult' one.

[dismantle.repair]

I think they are trained to handle the brunt of our emotions.
I know I'm realllllly sarcastic, and have to restrain myself from making the comments I would otherwise make when I'm in session.
Off and on, they do slip out... and I catch my T offguard with them. I left T speechless a couple times. In retrospect, I feel really bad- but at the same time, I'm kind of glad that she's probably going to understand my disposition a little better.

[lastyearisblank]

Yeah it's really hard. It's such a hard balance between being honest and risking being perceived as exasperating. I struggle w/ that too and it is like being between a rock and a hard place. Brings up all this abandonment stuff. I hope you take it easy with yourself. You have PC to write all the stuff if you don't feel ready to bring it up in session.

[BlessedRhiannon]

Most of the time, I don't worry about hurting my T's feelings....I figure that if I do, she'll tell me, and if she doesn't say anything, then it's not an issue. I'm assuming my T has much better skills in this area than I do!

If I've been particularly snarky, and I know that I've acted inappropriately towards my T, the I just apologize to her in the next session. She has always accepted my apology and we've moved on.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by SarahMichelle

Maybe if you feel you said something wrong, just say I'm sorry I said that, and then move on.

I have apologized to my T for certain things and it did make me feel better. He said I didn't have to apologize, but when I said I wanted to, he was quiet and let me say I was sorry, and he thanked me and accepted my apology graciously. And we were done with it, and moved on!

Originally Posted by skysblue

I guess I want to be the 'delightful' client and not the 'difficult' one.

I don't think wanting to be the delightful client is necessarily a good thing in therapy. It could lead to not being honest with your T and hiding your true thoughts for fear they will make you appear less delightful. Once my T told me that I didn't need to "perform" in therapy. I see trying to be the delightful client as kind of like that. But I do think it is a great goal to try to develop communication skills in session that are functional and healthy and that you can then go out and use in real life. So learning to be able to say things directly and respectfully would be great, instead of with judgment or sarcasm. Maybe you could ask for your T's coaching on how to communicate in the way you want. Like if something comes out sarcastic, you can say, "wow, I'm sorry, I didn't mean for that to come out that way. how can I say that more respectfully but yet still be honest and confront the issue?"

[pachyderm]

This is what the title of this thread brings to my mind:

I Want to Hurt T's Feelings

T for being the kind of person who won't accept the real me (I think)!

[rainbow8]

Hmm, maybe Pachy's onto something, skysblue. Maybe you are angry with your T and you DO want to hurt her feelings but don't want to acknowlege it?

[skysblue]

It just adds to me feeling bad about myself if I am not as 'nice' as I think I should be. Contributes to feeling depressed. So why do/say things that make me feel bad?

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Hmm, maybe Pachy's onto something, skysblue. Maybe you are angry with your T and you DO want to hurt her feelings but don't want to acknowlege it?

Oh, I didn't understand what he was saying. Yeah, maybe I want to say "f**k you" to my T.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by skysblue

Oh, I didn't understand what he was saying. Yeah, maybe I want to say "f**k you" to my T.

Yike, that is definitely not nice. Geez, I can't believe I wrote that.

Originally Posted by skysblue

...or be confrontational. I'm worried I may have been too honest and said too much about how her words hurt me. I was even sarcastic at one point and now I regret that. I think I need to be more careful how I express myself in session and think about how my words could affect her.

Isn't that why we are in therapy? To learn how to be more honest with ourselves and others?

Her words hurt you. Is it possible you really did want to hurt her feelings so she might know how if feels?

The whole purpose of therapy is to focus on YOU and YOUR feelings, not T.

I also don't want to be seen as the difficult client so I will try to be more attentive and cautious before I speak.

WHY?

Why do you have to be anyone different than who YOU are? If your T can't handle it, it is your T's problem, not YOURS.

[rainbow8]

My T said last week that being honest with my feelings was the only way I was going to start to feel better. We all have parts that aren't "nice" and parts that are "nice". We act and say things for a reason. Therapy is a place to say feelings and thoughts whether they are nice or not. It doesn't mean YOU are bad or not nice. Can you try to accept whatever part is saying "I feel bad" and just try to be curious about it? This is a little IFS therapy. If it doesn't help, please ignore me.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by lost in termination

Isn't that why we are in therapy? To learn how to be more honest with ourselves and others?

Her words hurt you. Is it possible you really did want to hurt her feelings so she might know how if feels?

The whole purpose of therapy is to focus on YOU and YOUR feelings, not T.

WHY?

Why do you have to be anyone different than who YOU are? If your T can't handle it, it is your T's problem, not YOURS.

I don't think it's ever right to deliberately hurt someone's feelings. Even though I go to therapy for ME, does not give me the right to abuse another person. I guess I didn't really 'abuse' her but when describing the incident in which I had shared with her how hard it was to make phone calls under any circumstance and she expressed how she understood how hard that was for me (we were talking about the past in which she figuratively hit me with a 2x4)

And then I said sarcastically, "And so you thought that was a good time to impose stricter boundaries - just when I had shared with you how hard it was to call you? It's not like I overdid it - like 6 times a day or something. Usually only once a week I'd call but sometimes as much as 3 x a week. I almost never ask you to call back but still - that's when you decided to add extra restrictions?"

But, see, I know she didn't mean to do that. It was an honest mistake on her part and I know that but still I rubbed her nose in it - that she made a mistake. That's not nice.

[rainbow8]

I just want to give you some hugs. It's hard stuff you're dealing with in this thread.

[Open Eyes]

skysblue,

You need to be honest with your therapist. What you have asked here or even stated has to be said to her.

If your therapist happens to hurt your feelings than you need to tell her. You have to do that because you obviously need to learn how to tell people when they hurt your feelings. You can't just walk away holding all the anger and doubt and confusion inside of you. When you do that you invite depression into the picture.

I have a feeling that you are conflicted with feelings that you may have for a parent or sibling. You want to yell and tell them off for hurting you and yet you want them to love you so you ignore and hide the hurt. It sounds to me that is an area that you never learned to deal with. And that is not unusual as there are so many parents that say mean things to their children and their children don't know how to respond. So what happens is many children grow up and just take abuse and hold it all in, and they become very unhappy people who have no real sense of boundaries or even a clue on how to set boundaries.

So you need to address this with your therapist. You need to tell her your actual feelings and also tell her that you need to learn how to express displeasure when someone hurts you in a way that you feel safe and you also feel is appropriate.

Because what you are talking about here is one of your big issues. You don't really know how to respond to someone who hurts your feelings. And what that really means is you have not learned how to set personal boundaries and inforce those boundaries correctly.

Going to a therapist is not supposed to be a battle. A good therapist is not there to poke holes in you, a good therapist is there to help you find your holes and set a plan on how to fill them.

So let me ask you this? Was it really what the therapist said or was she saying something that reminded you of how others in your past have hurt you? Now you want to yell at her and express your displeasure of how she hurt you. But you didn't do it, why? You said you want to be the patient she adores right? Well, I think she would rather have a patient that really shared their troubles and was honest and she actually got to do her job. If your therapist can help you overcome your hidden issues and does a good job and sees you learn and improve, that would probably lend more to you being her favorite patient than some girl that sits and is nicey nicey all the time. And did you ever think she may be testing your reactions to her statements? Maybe she wants to see how you have made boundaries, or "NOT".

No matter how intelligent someone is or how talented they are, there is always a hole. And most of those holes come from lousey parenting and it is not really the person's fault. Therapy is not about how good you are about hiding your holes.
Therapy only works if you are smart enough, have enough desire and drive to actually show your holes and get the help you need to fill them.

Start being honest about your feelings and holes with your therapist. Forget about hiding and presenting a pretend face that in reality needs to learn to be real instead of just pretend.

Open Eyes

[ECHOES]

What do you think the consequences of 'not being nice' are?

Originally Posted by skysblue

I don't think it's ever right to deliberately hurt someone's feelings. Even though I go to therapy for ME, does not give me the right to abuse another person. I guess I didn't really 'abuse' her but when describing the incident in which I had shared with her how hard it was to make phone calls under any circumstance and she expressed how she understood how hard that was for me (we were talking about the past in which she figuratively hit me with a 2x4)

And then I said sarcastically, "And so you thought that was a good time to impose stricter boundaries - just when I had shared with you how hard it was to call you? It's not like I overdid it - like 6 times a day or something. Usually only once a week I'd call but sometimes as much as 3 x a week. I almost never ask you to call back but still - that's when you decided to add extra restrictions?"

But, see, I know she didn't mean to do that. It was an honest mistake on her part and I know that but still I rubbed her nose in it - that she made a mistake. That's not nice.

Skyblue

I agree. It's never right to "deliberately" hurt someone's feelings. If you did (I only am speaking from my own personal experience), I don't believe you did do it deliberately, I believe you may have done it "unconsciously" AND that's ok. It's there for T and you to discuss and explore.

Recently, my T didn't honor one of my boundaries. He shared a private email I sent him with a secretary, and she sent it back to me. It jeopardized our therapy relationship and damaged the trust we both worked to build. I sent him an email and asked him if he was going to "tighten" boundaries with me even though, in this instance it was HIS to own. It helped me realize, in the past, when people crossed MY boundaries, I felt punished. like it was somehow my fault.

I'm not sure if that is helpful, but it's what came to mind when I read your post.

[skysblue]

Open Eyes, - you said that so well. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Yeah, I know this is projection and I know that therapists love it when our personal issues land in the therapy room with the therapist. I know this is something I need to overcome. It all comes down to believing myself to be 'bad'. I know it comes from childhood, even though I don't remember my childhood.

So, here it is - I know this is my issue; I know it stems from childhood; my T and I have talked about it; I know I'm scared of rejection and abandonment and so does T; I know all these bad parts of myself but... still, does 'acting out' ever solve anything?

I already 'got into trouble' with her with my iPod a few months ago. Facing her disapproval is too much for me to handle. I know that so why should I do things that might increase the odds of her getting mad at me? That makes no sense. We already know the problem but doing or saying things that might hurt her feelings doesn't seem the way to solve the problem.

T and I have been round and round on this issue (not the hurting T's feelings part, though). It just seems unsolvable and letting all feelings just flop out without restriction seems kind of, idk, animalistic or primal or infantile or????

I appreciate the feedback and your suggestions are good but, dang, I'm so conflicted on this. It makes me feel like quitting therapy because I can't see how it's going to help just yapping on and on about my 'feelings'.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

What do you think the consequences of 'not being nice' are?

Well, I'll be adding one more piece of evidence that I'm bad and also I'll risk getting into trouble.

[ECHOES]

What does 'getting into trouble' mean, in therapy? Or not in therapy.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

What does 'getting into trouble' mean, in therapy? Or not in therapy.

I guess, someone mad at me.

[unaluna]

The below quote is part of a response email my T sent me a week ago. Some of it he just repeats what I wrote or asked, which I left in for context, but most of it is his. Maybe hearing it from the horse's mouth will help?

"The new developments you mention and recognize are as much in me as you. What you say, citing Baumeister's article, although it's really you, is just how well the neglected do notice. In fact, notice on many levels that others
don't. You notice and learn how to protect your self from incompetent and evil caretakers; one way is to become overly responsible workers, as if you're responsible for everything and always trying to get the love and approval that was never there to begin with. I do acknowledge you and not always with the grace, elegance, and elan I would like to, and at times I can really mess up. The important thing is we both try to correct things and stick with it."

[eskielover]

I think it's important how we say what we have to say & saying things in the most diplomatic way no matter who or where we are is really an art form of conversation.

When I was with my husband & got into stressful situations, I would just blow up at him or whoever screwed up. After I left my husband, I would find myself doing the same thing. I didn't use sarcasm....I would just blow up at people for doing something wrong.....it came out like I knew they were doing that wrong thing on purpose just to bother me. The more frustrated I would get, the worse my attacking people came out.

The interesting thing is that after leaving my husband & moving 2100 miles away from him & not having anything at all to do with him, I have stopped reacting to people like that & have conscientiously focused on how I reply to people & try to express that I understand where they are coming from, but that I have this problem & could really use their help is solving it (or similar situations). The interesting thing was that before, the people I would interface with it would just turn into an argument or a really bad situation. With the change, I find that I can get people to do what it is that I need in a very nice way & they are the ones agreeing that it's the best & they will go out of their way to help me.....or even like today, the lady was willing to waive the complete late charge rather than just the 1/2 that is their practice.

It is true that "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar". Realizing & seeing the difference in reactions has really caused me to be aware of the words that come out of my mouth.....not just because I don't want to hurt them (that is a big part) but also because I usually gain out of it much more when I'm nice than when I'm not.