**trigger warning for brief mention of sui thoughts/attempt in childhood**

I've searched through this forum for threads about lack of childhood memories but they don't seem to be relevant to my situation, so I hope no-one minds me revisiting the topic.

Unsurprisingly T and I have been talking about my childhood I had a perfectly normal childhood (no abuse/neglect whatsoever) until 13+ years old, except for some bullying at school and my beloved Nan dying. Now I can understand why someone with a horrible, abusive childhood would block out childhood memories, even good ones, but I can't understand why I have so few memories from before I was a teenager. I remember 1 happy birthday party, being with my Nan, playing with my brother, and spending lots of time on my own reading or using my imagination. Apart from the one birthday party, none of my memories include my parents

So I guess my question is for those who had happy childhoods, how much do you remember? Is it weird that I remember so little?

Another thing I've been thinking about since my last session, which I also plan to bring up with T, is about keeping secrets as a child. Do you think some children are more private than others? Otherwise how do they learn to keep secrets without learning from their family? What I'm mainly referring to is being suicidal at 8 years old after my Nan died, but telling no-one. How does an 8-year-old know that suicide is a taboo topic and should be hidden from everyone? My family had NO IDEA! I stopped eating much for at least a year after my Nan died, which a psychologist said was due to feeling out of control because my Nan died. My parents thought it was because I got 'carried away' with learning about healthy eating in school. They had no idea that I tried to kill myself, or that when that attempt failed I felt that I deserved a slower, more painful death and so tried to starve myself to death.

I'm wondering how good parents can not notice that I was in that much pain, unless I was so good at hiding it? And if I was, how did I learn that? How did I know that I wasn't 'supposed' to talk about feeling so bad?

I'm spotting links between my past and current situation. I keep putting this mask on and then being surprised when my family and T can't see through it. Clearly I must be incredibly good at pretending everything is fine to convince those close to me so completely. I've realised that I need to let T see 'behind the mask', but it's hard, and I guess that's what led me to question how the mask formed at such a young age with a perfectly normal childhood

Any insight would be appreciated. As I said, I will bring it up with T but he is only one person and many heads are better than one :group hug:

Many thanks for reading!

*Willow*

[SoupDragon]

Hi Willow - I don't know the answers to your questions, but I do know I lost my beloved Grandmother when I was 13 and she was the most important person in my life - soon after I started to SI and no-one knew.

You mention a psychologist - was that someone you saw when you were 8?

I have few memories also - I just trust that they will come if they want to as I work with T.

But reading what you have written one question springs to mind - how do you know your childhood was normal if you can't remember it? Just a thought.

Hugs back to you - Soup

[pbutton]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

But reading what you have written one question springs to mind - how do you know your childhood was normal if you can't remember it? Just a thought.

I think that's a really good question.

I used to feel the same way, but then I really started thinking about my childhood and I was surprised that it was more "off" than I had originally thought it was. It is so hard to trust your memory when you had nothing to compare it to at the time, and just sort of figured everything was "fine". Or in my case you were taught to say it was fine and not talk about your feelings. If you say it's fine often enough, it seems fine.

It's really hard for me to draw the line between "oh, it was fine and I'm blowing it out of proportion now" and "Crap, that's mighty weird-sounding, why didn't I view it this way before???" I am struggling with that quite a bit these days.

I also don't remember a lot of my childhood. I would have said it was happy though. I don't know why. Maybe because we all said everything was FINE, even when it wasn't. That sticks with you I guess. Things are popping up more and more lately though. It's bizarre.

I had an ok childhood up to the age of 8 or so, but don't really have access to it. I didn't realise this until one day, T and I were telling each other stories and she asked for a story from my childhood. Instead of looking back at my life, I realised I was turning the pages in the photo albums of my childhood, as if this was my only window. Later, I realised that probably wasn't 'normal'.

I think for me this has happened because I received very damaging 'treatment' in my early teens which effectively rewrote my childhood into lies. It took away something quite fundamental, and even though now I can separate truth from fiction, I don't feel like I ever got back the childhood I lost to that treatment.

I guess this doesn't help you much- sorry. I just wanted to empathise about how hard it can be not to remember, and to wonder why you don't remember etc.

[mcl6136]

I guess I'm wondering what a normal childhood looks like.

I'm not trying to be snide here (it comes naturally) but honestly, there is so much difference in the way we grow up, grow towards things, away from things.

Putting too much pressure on oneself in the interest of being "normal" or having "normal" things or experiences is just not always a great strategy, IME.

Nothing earth shattering, I know, but sometimes memory fails and nothing is "normal."

Can you give yourself a break on this?

[SallyBrown]

Originally Posted by WeepingWillow23

Unsurprisingly T and I have been talking about my childhood I had a perfectly normal childhood (no abuse/neglect whatsoever) until 13+ years old, except for some bullying at school and my beloved Nan dying. Now I can understand why someone with a horrible, abusive childhood would block out childhood memories, even good ones, but I can't understand why I have so few memories from before I was a teenager. I remember 1 happy birthday party, being with my Nan, playing with my brother, and spending lots of time on my own reading or using my imagination. Apart from the one birthday party, none of my memories include my parents

So I guess my question is for those who had happy childhoods, how much do you remember? Is it weird that I remember so little?

I can't speak much to memories or lack thereof -- I guess I'm not sure what it means or what is normal. But I do SO relate to this in many ways. It reminds me of a session where I was sitting and crying and telling T that I did not deserve his help, and he asked me why, and I said, "Because nothing bad ever happened to me."

His response was something like: "You and I both know people who have suffered through much more traumatic things as children. But that doesn't mean that what happened to you wasn't bad. It doesn't mean that to have something more subtle going on in your home shouldn't affect you deeply."

Another thing I've been thinking about since my last session, which I also plan to bring up with T, is about keeping secrets as a child. Do you think some children are more private than others? Otherwise how do they learn to keep secrets without learning from their family? What I'm mainly referring to is being suicidal at 8 years old after my Nan died, but telling no-one. How does an 8-year-old know that suicide is a taboo topic and should be hidden from everyone? My family had NO IDEA! I stopped eating much for at least a year after my Nan died, which a psychologist said was due to feeling out of control because my Nan died. My parents thought it was because I got 'carried away' with learning about healthy eating in school. They had no idea that I tried to kill myself, or that when that attempt failed I felt that I deserved a slower, more painful death and so tried to starve myself to death.

I'm wondering how good parents can not notice that I was in that much pain, unless I was so good at hiding it? And if I was, how did I learn that? How did I know that I wasn't 'supposed' to talk about feeling so bad?

And oh my goodness how I can relate to this. I think some kids are more private than others, and I know that I was INTENSELY private. I kept things secret almost compulsively. I had this problem of hiding stuff for a really long time, well into college and even now I fight it. Often for no rational reason, I hide physical objects.

I also had suicidal thoughts as a child, not triggered by any specific event (I think depression has a pretty strong physiological and possibly genetic component for me), but they were there. I, too, knew to keep those secret. What I'm putting together now in therapy is that that probably had a lot to do with the fact that my family had secrets, and were seriously not dealing with a fair amount of *****. I think that perceptive children pick up on the fact that there are secrets, and can extrapolate then to start keeping secrets themselves as it is modeled as the appropriate thing to do.

I used to beat myself up about how secretive I was back then, in part because I thought, "If I had just told my parents what was going on, maybe they really would have believed me [although this was also a problem] and would have taken me to a therapist." But I see it differently now that a couple of things have happened recently:

1. I saw my preschool report card. I was always an overachiever and this was reflected in much of the card (I knew ALL of my colors and shapes!) but there was one section where I FAILED. Miserably. That section was entitled, "Social and Emotional". It stood out really strongly because I only had the highest "marks" on every single other section, and only average to low "marks" in this one. It was like, really mom and dad? No red flags? I began to realize that there were warning signs before I even got to kindergarten that were selectively (although not maliciously, I fully believe my parents wanted me to be ok) ignored.

2. I learned a really disgustingly big family secret. I am still overwhelmed by it, still incredulous about how it has been handled (or more accurately, not handled) and the risks at which my own parents placed me that I had no awareness of. But you know -- I probably DID have some awareness, but my child mind filled it in in a way that did not jibe with reality, because I had no way of knowing the truth.

I too wonder how my parents could not have known there was a problem. There were lots of signs -- and even my teachers picked up on some of them. But I was always a good student, and I think the idea was that everything must be ok if I can handle my academics so well. I think my parents saw emotional problems as the one thing I was just not working as hard on. Or I was "just shy" or "just sensitive".

And you have to figure that family secrets lead to a fair amount of denial. I think my parents thought that because they were "protecting" me from the abuse and neglect present in their own childhoods, that I must be ok. Meanwhile, their unresolved issues just trickled down in indirect ways. There was a certain amount of, "Well I'm not neglecting you like MY mother did, so what's the problem? You must just be really sensitive/spoiled."

Do you think maybe there are some family issues and secrets that you might have sensed that would have caused you to withdraw? Can you think of something about your parents that might have contributed to their blindness regarding your not eating?

OK now this is insanely long, but I could just relate to what you said SO much. I know for me the secrets and the unresolved parental issues -- they wanted so much to keep me from what they dealt with, they didn't even entertain the idea that other problems might arise -- had a LOT to do with my extremely private nature. I wonder if something like it is at play for you too.

Thank you guys for all the replies :group hug:

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

Hi Willow - I don't know the answers to your questions, but I do know I lost my beloved Grandmother when I was 13 and she was the most important person in my life - soon after I started to SI and no-one knew.

I'm sorry that happened to you Soup, and that no-one knew how much pain you were in

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

You mention a psychologist - was that someone you saw when you were 8?

Yeah my parents realised I wasn't eating and took me to the GP, and I saw a child psychologist once who said I'd gotten carried away with healthy eating. She told my parents to take the weighing scales away, not to go on a diet in front of me, and not to make a big deal about 'good' and 'bad' foods etc. End of.

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

But reading what you have written one question springs to mind - how do you know your childhood was normal if you can't remember it? Just a thought.

I figured someone would come out with that! But I thought if I said it was, then you guys would question if I was in denial...

My parents care deeply about me and my siblings, and they all had happy childhoods. I'm wondering if I'm just overly sensitive and picked up on subtle things like my Mum's SAD that the others missed?

Originally Posted by pbutton

I used to feel the same way, but then I really started thinking about my childhood and I was surprised that it was more "off" than I had originally thought it was. It is so hard to trust your memory when you had nothing to compare it to at the time, and just sort of figured everything was "fine". Or in my case you were taught to say it was fine and not talk about your feelings. If you say it's fine often enough, it seems fine.

It's really hard for me to draw the line between "oh, it was fine and I'm blowing it out of proportion now" and "Crap, that's mighty weird-sounding, why didn't I view it this way before???" I am struggling with that quite a bit these days.

I also don't remember a lot of my childhood. I would have said it was happy though. I don't know why. Maybe because we all said everything was FINE, even when it wasn't. That sticks with you I guess. Things are popping up more and more lately though. It's bizarre.

I agree with a lot of what you said pbutton, thank you I tend to minimise a lot according to T. I definitely know that my teens weren't 'normal' and I was deeply unhappy with what was going on at home and the need to keep up the pretence that my family was 'functioning', but I genuinely think that before that everything was fine.

I guess I struggle with finding things that weren't 'good' about my childhood, as I feel as if that makes it my parent's 'fault' and I don't agree with that. I know that my parent's did the best that they could and they love us all so much. That's what leads me to think that it's something wrong with me, when my brothers turned out so happy and I'm so messed up - that I'm too sensitive or not resilient enough etc...

Originally Posted by Improving

I had an ok childhood up to the age of 8 or so, but don't really have access to it. I didn't realise this until one day, T and I were telling each other stories and she asked for a story from my childhood. Instead of looking back at my life, I realised I was turning the pages in the photo albums of my childhood, as if this was my only window. Later, I realised that probably wasn't 'normal'.

I think for me this has happened because I received very damaging 'treatment' in my early teens which effectively rewrote my childhood into lies. It took away something quite fundamental, and even though now I can separate truth from fiction, I don't feel like I ever got back the childhood I lost to that treatment.

I guess this doesn't help you much- sorry. I just wanted to empathise about how hard it can be not to remember, and to wonder why you don't remember etc.

Thank you Improving I'm sorry that treatment was so bad for you; it's supposed to help not make things worse!

Originally Posted by mcl6136

I guess I'm wondering what a normal childhood looks like.

I'm not trying to be snide here (it comes naturally) but honestly, there is so much difference in the way we grow up, grow towards things, away from things.

Putting too much pressure on oneself in the interest of being "normal" or having "normal" things or experiences is just not always a great strategy, IME.

Nothing earth shattering, I know, but sometimes memory fails and nothing is "normal."

Can you give yourself a break on this?

Thanks MCL I didn't take what you said as snide at all! I know 'normal' is relative, but I guess I'm wondering what insights this lack of memory can give me into how I am the way that I am and how I can change that for the better.

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

I can't speak much to memories or lack thereof -- I guess I'm not sure what it means or what is normal. But I do SO relate to this in many ways. It reminds me of a session where I was sitting and crying and telling T that I did not deserve his help, and he asked me why, and I said, "Because nothing bad ever happened to me."

His response was something like: "You and I both know people who have suffered through much more traumatic things as children. But that doesn't mean that what happened to you wasn't bad. It doesn't mean that to have something more subtle going on in your home shouldn't affect you deeply."

Yeah my T says something similar SallyBrown. Thank you for your reply I really struggle with that, like I'm undeserving of being this depressed and receiving treatment for it. And I wonder what's 'wrong' with me that such minor stuff can affect me like this when others who suffer much worse but are so much more resilient?

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

And oh my goodness how I can relate to this. I think some kids are more private than others, and I know that I was INTENSELY private. I kept things secret almost compulsively. I had this problem of hiding stuff for a really long time, well into college and even now I fight it. Often for no rational reason, I hide physical objects.

I also had suicidal thoughts as a child, not triggered by any specific event (I think depression has a pretty strong physiological and possibly genetic component for me), but they were there. I, too, knew to keep those secret. What I'm putting together now in therapy is that that probably had a lot to do with the fact that my family had secrets, and were seriously not dealing with a fair amount of *****. I think that perceptive children pick up on the fact that there are secrets, and can extrapolate then to start keeping secrets themselves as it is modeled as the appropriate thing to do.

I used to beat myself up about how secretive I was back then, in part because I thought, "If I had just told my parents what was going on, maybe they really would have believed me [although this was also a problem] and would have taken me to a therapist." But I see it differently now that a couple of things have happened recently:

1. I saw my preschool report card. I was always an overachiever and this was reflected in much of the card (I knew ALL of my colors and shapes!) but there was one section where I FAILED. Miserably. That section was entitled, "Social and Emotional". It stood out really strongly because I only had the highest "marks" on every single other section, and only average to low "marks" in this one. It was like, really mom and dad? No red flags? I began to realize that there were warning signs before I even got to kindergarten that were selectively (although not maliciously, I fully believe my parents wanted me to be ok) ignored.

2. I learned a really disgustingly big family secret. I am still overwhelmed by it, still incredulous about how it has been handled (or more accurately, not handled) and the risks at which my own parents placed me that I had no awareness of. But you know -- I probably DID have some awareness, but my child mind filled it in in a way that did not jibe with reality, because I had no way of knowing the truth.

I too wonder how my parents could not have known there was a problem. There were lots of signs -- and even my teachers picked up on some of them. But I was always a good student, and I think the idea was that everything must be ok if I can handle my academics so well. I think my parents saw emotional problems as the one thing I was just not working as hard on. Or I was "just shy" or "just sensitive".

And you have to figure that family secrets lead to a fair amount of denial. I think my parents thought that because they were "protecting" me from the abuse and neglect present in their own childhoods, that I must be ok. Meanwhile, their unresolved issues just trickled down in indirect ways. There was a certain amount of, "Well I'm not neglecting you like MY mother did, so what's the problem? You must just be really sensitive/spoiled."

Do you think maybe there are some family issues and secrets that you might have sensed that would have caused you to withdraw? Can you think of something about your parents that might have contributed to their blindness regarding your not eating?

OK now this is insanely long, but I could just relate to what you said SO much. I know for me the secrets and the unresolved parental issues -- they wanted so much to keep me from what they dealt with, they didn't even entertain the idea that other problems might arise -- had a LOT to do with my extremely private nature. I wonder if something like it is at play for you too.

I'm sorry you had all that to deal with as a child SallyBrown I wonder if I, like you, subconsciously picked up on grown-up secrets and that's how I learnt that we should keep things to ourselves. Not even bad secrets, but things like money worries and my Mum's SAD that parents try to protect their children from worrying about. I know when my Nan died, my Mum didn't allow herself to grieve but threw herself into organising the funeral and taking care of my Grampy, and so I never saw her cry for my Nan. I knew she was very upset, but she didn't cry in front of me (she later told me she didn't grieve properly for 2 years) and so I learnt that grown-ups don't show negative emotions, and so I kept mine bottled up too. Yet my brothers aren't like that. And I don't think there was necessarily anything wrong with my parents trying to protect us from grown-up worries as little children shouldn't be burdened with things like that.

I don't know...

But thank you all for your replies; I really appreciate it!

*Willow*

[velcro003]

willow, i can relate to you SO MUCH! I've been struggling with this same issue for years in therapy. i think i had a "normal" childhood; no abuse or anything horrible going on in my family. my parents were very young when they had me, and i was a preemie (4 mos early)...but thats about it. i know they love(d) me.

i have maybe 3 or 4 memories from the ages 4-8. 5th grade is when they start getting more regular. What i do find interesting is that my memories seem to solidify when I moved in 5th grade--to the house we stayed in through college. We moved a lot when I was younger. But still, this drives me crazy! I HATE not really having many memories from my childhood. My mom and dad both say that they don't remember a lot from theirs, so maybe it is genetic?

My T once told me that if my childhood was all warm and fuzzy, that i would remember that. That children will hold onto that. I don't know. Someone also has asked me "Well if you don't remember, how do you know it was normal?" Because the things I do remember ARE normal. And I don't question if my parents abused me or anything like that.

What I constantly want to do is poll everybody I come in contact with. So, when does your first memory begin? Do you have a general sense of being happy or not in your early years? Do you only have a handful of memories from those years? Because I can't tell if what I remember is just within the range of peoples ability to recall childhood memories.

I once told my therapist when I got a new job where I get to take care of babies/toddlers all day that it fascinates me to see how much small children need. Human contact, reassurance, smiles, love. And for some reason I can't imagine that I received that as a small child, but then I think that is sort of ridiculous. OF COURSE my parents held me. I know they didn't just leave me lying in a crib all day. I mean I have photographic evidence of quite the contrary. I have a wonderful extended family that I know is very loving, so clearly this isn't true.

I could go on and on...I wish I had answers, I truly do.

[with or without you]

I had a good upbringing with great parents and many warm & happy memories. However, I was shy and lonely, and my mother had a drinking problem which she began to enter treatment for when I was 9. (it took her a few attempts.) This created a lot of embarrassment for me personally and led to most of my current problems as a 30 year old. I have only begun to discuss this with T in the past year, and T suggested exploring the anger I have surrounding this. I was a little surprised because I didn't think I was angry with my mother since she had changed her life and had been sober for almost 20 years. It was difficult for me to admit that I actually was angry with Mom, because she really was (and is) a fantastic mother and the most important person in my life. But I did, in 11 or 12 pages which I wrote for therapy. I had a few secrets tucked away way down inside, and they stayed there because I was ashamed. I had never spoken of them at all, not even with T because I just didn't want to go there. (this mostly had to do with people trying to "butt in" and help us out when my mom was away getting treatment). It's funny what lengths the mind will go to in order to save oneself from dealing with something unpleasant.

I also wrote a much longer bit on why I have so many hangups about sex, intimacy, getting close to people, and even just hugging. Why I, as an adult woman, cannot form ADULT romantic relationships. I've racked my brain for years and years trying to think of anything at all that may have happened—abuse, molestation without knowing it, inappropriate behavior towards me from adults, and I couldn't think of anything. It's quite frustrating.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by with or without you

I also wrote a much longer bit on why I have so many hangups about sex, intimacy, getting close to people, and even just hugging. Why I, as an adult woman, cannot form ADULT romantic relationships. I've racked my brain for years and years trying to think of anything at all that may have happened—abuse, molestation without knowing it, inappropriate behavior towards me from adults, and I couldn't think of anything. It's quite frustrating.

oh, hello. are you my twin? i'm also 30 (for another 5 more days)

Thank you for your replies Velcro and WOWY

Originally Posted by velcro003

My T once told me that if my childhood was all warm and fuzzy, that i would remember that. That children will hold onto that. I don't know. Someone also has asked me "Well if you don't remember, how do you know it was normal?" Because the things I do remember ARE normal. And I don't question if my parents abused me or anything like that.

Yeah I think this too. It makes me worry about having kids one day that I will inadvertently mess them up too. If I'm not too sensitive or not resilient enough (i.e. the problem is not with me, though I suspect it is) and had a 'normal-enough' childhood (i.e. the problem is not my environment/family), then how do parents ever manage to raise happy & healthy children/adults?!

Originally Posted by with or without you

I had a good upbringing with great parents and many warm & happy memories. However, I was shy and lonely, and my mother had a drinking problem which she began to enter treatment for when I was 9. (it took her a few attempts.) This created a lot of embarrassment for me personally and led to most of my current problems as a 30 year old. I have only begun to discuss this with T in the past year, and T suggested exploring the anger I have surrounding this. I was a little surprised because I didn't think I was angry with my mother since she had changed her life and had been sober for almost 20 years. It was difficult for me to admit that I actually was angry with Mom, because she really was (and is) a fantastic mother and the most important person in my life. But I did, in 11 or 12 pages which I wrote for therapy. I had a few secrets tucked away way down inside, and they stayed there because I was ashamed. I had never spoken of them at all, not even with T because I just didn't want to go there. (this mostly had to do with people trying to "butt in" and help us out when my mom was away getting treatment). It's funny what lengths the mind will go to in order to save oneself from dealing with something unpleasant.

I suspect that hidden VERY deep down I have some anger at my parents about my home life as a teen. However anger frightens me so so much, because of all the damage it caused then. I equate anger with losing control and hurting people (both emotionally and physically), and so I repress it. And also, intellectually as an adult, I know that it wasn't my parent's fault as they did the best that they could with an awful situation, and so I feel guilty being angry, even deep down, at them. And I also feel I should take some responsibility as my parents tried to offer support at the time and I rejected it - they weren't mind readers!

Originally Posted by with or without you

I also wrote a much longer bit on why I have so many hangups about sex, intimacy, getting close to people, and even just hugging. Why I, as an adult woman, cannot form ADULT romantic relationships. I've racked my brain for years and years trying to think of anything at all that may have happened—abuse, molestation without knowing it, inappropriate behavior towards me from adults, and I couldn't think of anything. It's quite frustrating.

I also have the same problem WOWY, but I know where that came from. As a teen I was having all these problems at home and I was feeling emotionally isolated from my family, so I physically isolated myself from them and stopped hugging etc. At the same time as my friends were discovering boys, I was keeping up this pretence that my home life was fine (I had tried opening up to my best friend but she was too emotionally immature to deal with it) and so isolated myself from everyone else as well. So I completely skipped the teen crush phase. At the time physical intimacy (hugging) from my parents felt 'wrong' and horrible when they tried to initiate it, because I no longer had that emotional connection with them, and after years with little practise at intimacy, I don't remember how to do it any more. I still don't feel 'safe' enough to open up emotionally to others, even T, and I don't think that I can work on physical intimacy unless I'm feeling comfortable with emotional intimacy to then go from there.

Thanks for all the replies guys

*Willow*

[velcro003]

It feels good knowing im not the only one! And in my 4 yrs of therapy, i am working on just trusting/emotional intimacy. I cant even begin to talk about lack of relationships/physical intimacy. I feel ya

[KazzaX]

My childhood (in my opinion) was pretty normal. I remember some things that I didn't like at the time but I'm pretty sure they were the typical things that kids/teens complain about, like not being able to stay out later, etc. Nothing horrible that I can remember really. However my therapists believe I was emotionally abused big time, but I don't recall being traumatized by anything really. So I don't really know if I agree that there was emotional abuse. In other words, I don't remember anything happening that was bad enough that it would lead me to become so messed up in the head like I am now!

I suppose it is possible to have blocked things out ofcourse. I think its possible but unlikely (however I haven't researched it or anything so I dunno).

[with or without you]

Originally Posted by velcro003

oh, hello. are you my twin? i'm also 30 (for another 5 more days)

Ha, I remember your username and I think we have met a few times in some other threads talking about things like this. Happy birthday

[SallyBrown]

I also have the same problem WOWY, but I know where that came from. As a teen I was having all these problems at home and I was feeling emotionally isolated from my family, so I physically isolated myself from them and stopped hugging etc. At the same time as my friends were discovering boys, I was keeping up this pretence that my home life was fine (I had tried opening up to my best friend but she was too emotionally immature to deal with it) and so isolated myself from everyone else as well. So I completely skipped the teen crush phase. At the time physical intimacy (hugging) from my parents felt 'wrong' and horrible when they tried to initiate it, because I no longer had that emotional connection with them, and after years with little practise at intimacy, I don't remember how to do it any more. I still don't feel 'safe' enough to open up emotionally to others, even T, and I don't think that I can work on physical intimacy unless I'm feeling comfortable with emotional intimacy to then go from there.

I stopped hugging my parents too! Except I did it at like 8 or 9 years old, so I don't remember my actual thinking about it at the time really. I was also way too emotionally isolated to date much as a teenager, but that's a whole other story, and another thing that was strongly influenced by my parents mistaking my issues for theirs.

Not even bad secrets, but things like money worries and my Mum's SAD that parents try to protect their children from worrying about. I know when my Nan died, my Mum didn't allow herself to grieve but threw herself into organising the funeral and taking care of my Grampy, and so I never saw her cry for my Nan. I knew she was very upset, but she didn't cry in front of me (she later told me she didn't grieve properly for 2 years) and so I learnt that grown-ups don't show negative emotions, and so I kept mine bottled up too. Yet my brothers aren't like that. And I don't think there was necessarily anything wrong with my parents trying to protect us from grown-up worries as little children shouldn't be burdened with things like that.

I think there is A LOT to this. If your mom wasn't dealing with her own pain, how could she be equipped to see yours for what it was? I am by no means defending her. But it makes a lot of sense. And as a child, I imagine you also felt very disconnected from your mom at that time, to be so obviously harming yourself and to have her not see it. I wish someone had helped you.

I guess I struggle with finding things that weren't 'good' about my childhood, as I feel as if that makes it my parent's 'fault' and I don't agree with that. I know that my parent's did the best that they could and they love us all so much. That's what leads me to think that it's something wrong with me, when my brothers turned out so happy and I'm so messed up - that I'm too sensitive or not resilient enough etc...

My brothers also don't have the same struggles I do. I think birth order makes a difference (are they older or younger?), and also, maybe you also have a physiological component in this. I had been reluctant to try antidepressants, but when I did, one amazing thing I realized was that a lot of the bad stuff was not my fault. Of course I had behaviors that I needed to fix, but some of the unbearable sadness simply wasn't under my control -- my body was working against me and making things harder.

And finally, not resilient enough? You survived suicidal thinking, even attempts, in your childhood... and you haven't used those persistent thoughts or feelings as reason for accepting defeat. You think you're not resilient? I very much disagree

Originally Posted by with or without you

I also wrote a much longer bit on why I have so many hangups about sex, intimacy, getting close to people, and even just hugging. Why I, as an adult woman, cannot form ADULT romantic relationships. I've racked my brain for years and years trying to think of anything at all that may have happened—abuse, molestation without knowing it, inappropriate behavior towards me from adults, and I couldn't think of anything. It's quite frustrating.

I relate to this, too. Thanks for posting. I think in my case it's a trust issue/emotional distance/protective measure/fear of rejection thing. Maybe. I'll see what T says, but I think it stems from my childhood and the way my parents related to me - they weren't 'huggers', for example, (but it's more complicated)... This awkward topic may be under discussion in session tomorrow...

I don't remember a huge amount from my childhood either, it's all very vague, with just snippets here and there - but aside from a few slaps and slanging matches I don't think there was any real abuse going on.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by WeepingWillow23

Thank you for your replies Velcro and WOWY


Yeah I think this too. It makes me worry about having kids one day that I will inadvertently mess them up too. If I'm not too sensitive or not resilient enough (i.e. the problem is not with me, though I suspect it is) and had a 'normal-enough' childhood (i.e. the problem is not my environment/family), then how do parents ever manage to raise happy & healthy children/adults?!

*Willow*

YES. i feel crazy because i feel like "why am i so afraid of change, or of intimacy if my childhood was 'normal?" Its just ME. That is just who I am. I tend towards depression, i am an introvert so i LOVE my alone time, and i just suck and am afraid of intimacy.

Originally Posted by KazzaX

My childhood (in my opinion) was pretty normal. I remember some things that I didn't like at the time but I'm pretty sure they were the typical things that kids/teens complain about, like not being able to stay out later, etc. Nothing horrible that I can remember really. However my therapists believe I was emotionally abused big time, but I don't recall being traumatized by anything really. So I don't really know if I agree that there was emotional abuse. In other words, I don't remember anything happening that was bad enough that it would lead me to become so messed up in the head like I am now!

I suppose it is possible to have blocked things out ofcourse. I think its possible but unlikely (however I haven't researched it or anything so I dunno).

yes too!! yeah there were a few crap memories, but no one's childhood was perfect. everyone was mad at their parents at one time or another. my T has never used the words "emotional abuse," (and im glad because if she even tried to use 'abuse' on me, i'd flip), but she does think there are valid reasons why i keep my family at arm's length and 500 miles away. Even though i can't remember from ages 3-8 or 9, i don't think i am blocking things out.

Is it normal to not remember Kindergarten, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and most of 4th (i have about 2 memories of 4th grade) grade? I vaguely remember waiting outside while my mom signed me up for kindergarten...or i was just waiting outside for a completely different reason I truly do not remember one single thing from K-3rd grade, schoolwise. Was it because we moved a few times?

Originally Posted by with or without you

Ha, I remember your username and I think we have met a few times in some other threads talking about things like this. Happy birthday

when i wrote that i was like "Oh yeah! i remember thinking this about WOWY before! (btw, i loveeeeeeeee U2)

Thank you everyone for your replies. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one who struggles with this, though obviously I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

I stopped hugging my parents too! Except I did it at like 8 or 9 years old, so I don't remember my actual thinking about it at the time really. I was also way too emotionally isolated to date much as a teenager, but that's a whole other story, and another thing that was strongly influenced by my parents mistaking my issues for theirs.

I didn't realise why I'd stopped hugging them at the time; this has taken years of introspection to figure out.

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

I think there is A LOT to this. If your mom wasn't dealing with her own pain, how could she be equipped to see yours for what it was? I am by no means defending her. But it makes a lot of sense. And as a child, I imagine you also felt very disconnected from your mom at that time, to be so obviously harming yourself and to have her not see it. I wish someone had helped you.

I wish someone had too SallyBrown. I think that maybe if someone had I wouldn't have bottled everything up in my teens too (it wouldn't have been so deeply entrenched) and I wouldn't be so messed up now...

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

My brothers also don't have the same struggles I do. I think birth order makes a difference (are they older or younger?), and also, maybe you also have a physiological component in this. I had been reluctant to try antidepressants, but when I did, one amazing thing I realized was that a lot of the bad stuff was not my fault. Of course I had behaviors that I needed to fix, but some of the unbearable sadness simply wasn't under my control -- my body was working against me and making things harder.

I'm the oldest so I've always felt that I have to be the strong, responsible one and I tried to protect the younger ones when everything kicked off in my teens. Also I'm quite introverted and sensitive (in the sense of Elaine Aron's 'highly sensitive person') and I wonder if that made me more perceptive to things that were hidden around us than my brothers? As an adult I know that there were various things going on, and I wonder if I knew something was 'off' even though my parents were trying to protect us? But then T is CBT-trained and is always going on about how my intuition isn't necessarily right and trying to prove that I interpret situations 'wrong', so he probably wouldn't agree with this. This does *feel* right though - that I picked up on adult stuff, though I didn't know what was going on. And I think if you know something is wrong, but the adults around you say there isn't anything wrong to protect you, that could explain why I doubt myself so much (i.e. if I've always been told my intuition is 'wrong')...

And I wish I could blame it on genes and biology, but meds don't work for me I'm hoping it's just that they haven't been the 'right' meds as I'm thinking of re-trying meds, but I worry that I'm just defective...

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

And finally, not resilient enough? You survived suicidal thinking, even attempts, in your childhood... and you haven't used those persistent thoughts or feelings as reason for accepting defeat. You think you're not resilient? I very much disagree

Thank you SallyBrown I'm not sure I agree with "you haven't used those persistent thoughts or feelings as reason for accepting defeat" as I'm pretty ambivalent about that at the moment. But it is nice to hear - I'm always beating myself up for every little thing...

Originally Posted by velcro003

It feels good knowing im not the only one! And in my 4 yrs of therapy, i am working on just trusting/emotional intimacy. I cant even begin to talk about lack of relationships/physical intimacy. I feel ya

The thought of discussing physical intimacy with ANYONE, let alone a MALE T *freaks*me*out* Also I feel this pressure to sort myself out quick because I'm seeing T on the NHS and I have no idea how much longer I'll be allowed to see him for. I talked to him last session as I've seen him 17 times now and I was worried he'd have to kick me out after 20 sessions, and he said he doesn't have a max number of sessions as he's a CPN. He also said initially he thought 8-10 sessions would be enough when he got my referral to which I

Originally Posted by velcro003

YES. i feel crazy because i feel like "why am i so afraid of change, or of intimacy if my childhood was 'normal?" Its just ME. That is just who I am. I tend towards depression, i am an introvert so i LOVE my alone time, and i just suck and am afraid of intimacy.

Yeah I blame myself a lot too. One day I'd love to get married and have kids, but I know I have so much work to do before I'll be able to have a romantic relationship...and even then I'm not sure I should have kids - I think I'd just mess them up even worse than I am

Originally Posted by velcro003

yeah there were a few crap memories, but no one's childhood was perfect. everyone was mad at their parents at one time or another. my T has never used the words "emotional abuse," (and im glad because if she even tried to use 'abuse' on me, i'd flip), but she does think there are valid reasons why i keep my family at arm's length and 500 miles away. Even though i can't remember from ages 3-8 or 9, i don't think i am blocking things out.

I always defend my parents when T is slightly critical of them, but I also feel guilty that I'm giving him this impression of them when they're not able to defend themselves or give their side of the story. I'm also guilty at having this 'forbidden' anger at them, that I try really hard to deny even to myself. If T used the word "abuse" though I'd probably fall out of my chair!! I don't think I'm blocking out anything 'bad' though.

Anyway thanks guys It's always good to get feedback on your thoughts

*Willow*

[SallyBrown]

I'm the oldest so I've always felt that I have to be the strong, responsible one and I tried to protect the younger ones when everything kicked off in my teens. Also I'm quite introverted and sensitive (in the sense of Elaine Aron's 'highly sensitive person') and I wonder if that made me more perceptive to things that were hidden around us than my brothers? As an adult I know that there were various things going on, and I wonder if I knew something was 'off' even though my parents were trying to protect us? But then T is CBT-trained and is always going on about how my intuition isn't necessarily right and trying to prove that I interpret situations 'wrong', so he probably wouldn't agree with this. This does *feel* right though - that I picked up on adult stuff, though I didn't know what was going on. And I think if you know something is wrong, but the adults around you say there isn't anything wrong to protect you, that could explain why I doubt myself so much (i.e. if I've always been told my intuition is 'wrong')...

In my opinion, you're hitting the nail on the head. I go crazy doubting my own perceptions, because they always seemed to be "wrong." I could see why a CBT therapist might not want to focus so much on it, but I think it's true that kids know when things don't add up.

I'm the oldest too. I'd agree that the high expectations on the firstborn add to the feeling of responsibility and self-sacrifice, and I also think that because my brothers had my parents but ALSO me taking care of them, that made a difference. I'm not saying I'm responsible for their lack of depression (ha), but I think it did make a difference to have that extra figure to look to for emotional guidance. They questioned my parents' way of doing things more than I did.

And I wish I could blame it on genes and biology, but meds don't work for me I'm hoping it's just that they haven't been the 'right' meds as I'm thinking of re-trying meds, but I worry that I'm just defective...

Whoa, now wait a second, just because having antidepressants work is a good indicator of underlying biology, does NOT mean that the converse is also true. The area of psychiatric medications is one a big black box full of question marks. Just because it hasn't worked for you doesn't mean there's nothing going on, because no one even knows what the biology really IS. So don't lose hope or beat yourself up about it. I think you could always try re-visiting meds, because you never know... but they aren't everything, by a long shot.

Thank you SallyBrown I'm not sure I agree with "you haven't used those persistent thoughts or feelings as reason for accepting defeat" as I'm pretty ambivalent about that at the moment. But it is nice to hear - I'm always beating myself up for every little thing...

I can see that! However, the very fact that you are still trying by seeing a therapist means you haven't given up. Give yourself a little credit

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by WeepingWillow23

Yeah I blame myself a lot too. One day I'd love to get married and have kids, but I know I have so much work to do before I'll be able to have a romantic relationship...and even then I'm not sure I should have kids - I think I'd just mess them up even worse than I am

Don't wait too long! We have only one child because we "waited until we were ready".

Nothing can prepare you for parenthood. You just have to hold your nose, jump in, and hope for the best. Just like you did with therapy.

Like you, I wanted to spare my children what happened to me. And although I am still not entirely "right in the head", I believe I have succeeded.

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

However, the very fact that you are still trying by seeing a therapist means you haven't given up. Give yourself a little credit

Thank you SallyBrown That's very kind of you to say. Even though I feel pretty ambivalent about it all, I'm obviously leaning more toward the side of life because I'm going to therapy, like you said, and I'm planning on talking to my pdoc about how I feel and asking (begging!) her to let me try meds again - considering how SCARY she is and how she didn't believe me when I told her I'd started hallucinating and having delusions a few years ago, I must *want* to keep trying to get better!

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Don't wait too long! We have only one child because we "waited until we were ready".

Nothing can prepare you for parenthood. You just have to hold your nose, jump in, and hope for the best. Just like you did with therapy.

Like you, I wanted to spare my children what happened to me. And although I am still not entirely "right in the head", I believe I have succeeded.

Thank you CantExplain. I know that if you wait until you are truly 'ready' for most things, it'll probably never happen. I just really, deep down, think I'd be a terrible mother. Although I've read lots of books on the subject and would want to be a nurturing attachment/continuum parent, I think I'd fall wayyyyyy short in reality. I can't even stand it when my puppy is being really clingy and wants to be next to me all the time (I'm not good with touch; it has to be on my terms) - imagine how much that would screw up a child! Mummy being annoyed when they want a cuddle/reassurance!? I couldn't in all conscience bring a child into the world unless I was pretty sure I could cope with meeting their emotional needs, making them feel loved. If I screw up therapy, then that just affects *me*, but if I screw up parenthood, then that affects an innocent child/adult who didn't ask to be born...

I don't know, the whole having-a-child thing just makes me really sad. I'm only in my mid-20s so it's not something I have to focus on or decide right away, but I do yearn to have children already. And having been severely (psychotically) depressed for 4 1/2 years straight just makes me feel that I should never have kids because, even if I got better, what's to stop me getting depressed again?!

This is something I know I need to discuss with T because I think about it a lot, but there's just NO TIME! I see him for an hour every 2-3 weeks and it's just not enough to cover both of our agendas. There's no way to see him more often as he's NHS, and I've already seen him 18 times now and we haven't even scratched the surface! I saw him yesterday and wanted to talk about this thread as I'd been thinking about it during the 3 weeks since our last session, but he had his own agenda based on things we discussed the session before. And then we went off on a tangent (though a useful one) and didn't end up covering what he wanted to discuss either!! And now I don't see him for 2 1/2 weeks, which will be after I see scary pdoc (and so I will have to deal with her/psych myself up to be assertive on my own)



And T kept saying I was "exceptional" (he meant academically/intellectually as we were talking about my uni courses) - it's not the first time he's said it - and it annoys me & makes me feel guilty. He's CBT - what is his evidence that this is true?! All he knows is what I tell him, and I can't for the life of me see how me talking about failing exams and being seen as weak and incompetent because of my depression by uni staff can possibly make him think I'm "exceptionally intelligent" or "gifted" or any of the other nonsense descriptors he's used?! I feel guilty that I'm somehow inadvertently giving him this false impression of me - I'm reasonably intelligent, but I'm nothing special!! And it annoys me because I feel like he *still* has no idea who I am...

I'm sorry, I'm just ranting. Nothing to see here...

*Willow*

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by WeepingWillow23

And T kept saying I was "exceptional" (he meant academically/intellectually as we were talking about my uni courses) - it's not the first time he's said it - and it annoys me & makes me feel guilty. He's CBT - what is his evidence that this is true?! All he knows is what I tell him, and I can't for the life of me see how me talking about failing exams and being seen as weak and incompetent because of my depression by uni staff can possibly make him think I'm "exceptionally intelligent" or "gifted" or any of the other nonsense descriptors he's used?! I feel guilty that I'm somehow inadvertently giving him this false impression of me - I'm reasonably intelligent, but I'm nothing special!! And it annoys me because I feel like he *still* has no idea who I am...

Intelligence comes out in conversation.
I don't need to see the grades to know that almost everyone on this forum is well above average intellectually. Top 10%, mostly.

[Silent_tsol]

I posted something similar in another forum recently. There's so much in here I can relate to, both from what you've posted and the replies. I believe I also had a happy childhood but have very limited memories.

how do you know your childhood was normal if you can't remember it? Just a thought.

Something came up in the last year that may or may not be related to me but it's left me with this question on repeat

I used to feel the same way, but then I really started thinking about my childhood and I was surprised that it was more "off" than I had originally thought it was. It is so hard to trust your memory when you had nothing to compare it to at the time, and just sort of figured everything was "fine". Or in my case you were taught to say it was fine and not talk about your feelings. If you say it's fine often enough, it seems fine.

It's really hard for me to draw the line between "oh, it was fine and I'm blowing it out of proportion now" and "Crap, that's mighty weird-sounding, why didn't I view it this way before???" I am struggling with that quite a bit these days.

I also don't remember a lot of my childhood. I would have said it was happy though. I don't know why. Maybe because we all said everything was FINE, even when it wasn't. That sticks with you I guess. Things are popping up more and more lately though. It's bizarre.

Yesss pbutton

I could probably quote and agree with everything everyone said but I'm sure you get the idea

[velcro003]

you know what bothers me, but i am not sure if its because i've been in therapy too long/over analyze myself way too much...

i work with children all day; in the mornings at a drop-off daycare center at a fitness facility, and in the afternoon with a preschool (2 year olds). So I see a range of 6 week olds (SO CUTEEE) through 2-3 years.

there will be times where i'll be doing my job, nothing stressing on my mind...a normal day, and suddenly i will witness something that makes my heart skip a beat, or i go incredibly sad for literally a second. it passes SUPER quick, so i can't tell if i am looking into things way too much or what.

this just happened tonight at the grocery store actually! i was walking down an aisle looking for something and walked by this mom and her kid. this literally was a 5 second thing, or however long it takes to walk by someone...but i took in this kid (11ish) joking with his mom as they were grocery shopping. Nothing earth shattering, just that he seemed comfortable with her or something. Its tiny moments like those that cause some sort of reaction inside of me. I don't even know how to describe it, mainly because it happens like a flash.

Sometimes it causes a more severe reaction, where all i feel like doing is bursting into tears the one that stands out the most to me is a few years ago. i was working a different position, but still around kids. i was ringing up a mother for something, and while she was waiting she was idly playing with her son's hair and humming. suddenly i had the overwhelming urge to start bawling! it was so weird.

i could go on, but you get the drift. did i notice these type of reactions before i started therapy? no. so am i just making stuff up in my head to find 'memories' of how i wasn't treated as a kid? why would someone have a reaction to these little heartfelt moments if you weren't deprived of them? BUT i don't REMEMBER not having them! or having them...so how on earth do i know?!

THIS IS WHAT DRIVE ME CRAZY!

[velcro003]

oh and i witness parents beign very loving with their children ALL DAY LONG. So its not like i am crumpled up in a corner all day because i was deprived of love. it happens randomly, and not extremely often. most of the time i smile and my heart warms to see parents giving their kids hugs and kisses/excited to see them etc...