Why can't I shut off that part of my brain? Please go away and stop tormenting me!

I think it is ok to feel however you feel about yourself or your t. The feelings are there for a reason and even though they can get really uncomfortable, they are part of how we learn in therapy. I get more out of therapy when I can admit the uncomfortable feelings to t. That is WAY easier to think than to put into practise but I'm working toward that.

Hmm... to some extent, we all "transfer" feelings and beliefs from the past to new people we meet, but some T's aren't trained to recognize subtle forms of transference. It can be especially tricky with positive transference because sometimes a patient's fear of conflict -- either conscious or unconscious -- can prevent him or her from expressing negative or sexual thoughts and feelings in therapy, so all that's expressed are positive thoughts and feelings, leading the T to believe that there are no transference issues at all. That's not at all uncommon, and unfortunately the patient's fear of conflict is never exposed and therefore can never be dealt with and overcome. But then there are also T's who blame all conflict in the relationship on negative transference and the patient is left with a different unresolved problem.
Dealing with a patient's sexual feelings is undoubtedly difficult for many T's. Some will immediately refer patients to other T's which in some ways is unfortunate because it adds to already existing abandonment and rejection issues, but at the same time, if the T is clearly that uncomfortable, there's little chance for a successful outcome anyway. And there are probably some T's who unconsciously project their own discomfort in ways that make it difficult or impossible for patients to even acknowledge sexual feelings toward the T, so the T may believe he or she has never encountered anyone with those issues. I don't know if your T would fall into that category or not. Obviously she has no experience in dealing with it since she said she's never worked with anyone who experienced it or even admitted it to her, so I guess under those circumstances I'd probably be just as wary as you are about bringing it up again. I'd like to tell you to take that risk because it's the only way to have an opportunity to understand it and work it through, but that's easy for me to say because I have a T who is skilled in that area and who knows how to handle it. If I were in your situation I don't know if I would take that risk because I'd be worried about rejection and I'd be concerned about my T's ability to help me, but I don't know your T and until now you've been able to be very open and honest with her, so maybe you can take that risk anyway.

PH's comments are great! Thanks, PreacherHeckler; you're helping me too when you post about transference. I'm fortunate that my T makes me feel safe and comfortable to discuss all of my feelings for her as much as I need to. She's not afraid of transference and I think she knows how to deal with it in a gentle but not "fanning the flames" way.

Squiggle, it's hard to believe that your T hasn't dealt with transference with any other client, but if that's true, I understand why you're hesitant to bring it up again. But you said she's been understanding and I can see that, from everything you've posted about her. I think it's worth it to take the risk if you can because it's bothering you so much. Therapy is to help us with what bothers us, not matter what, and our feelings for our T are an important part of it. I wish you peace of mind with these feelings, as I myself am kind of in the midst of them too right now.

Critterlady, you nailed it! This is a huge contradiction that therapists propagate without realizing what they're actually saying.

When I was trying to extricate myself from an abusive therapist recently, I would tell him why I was uncomfortable in our sessions. Instead of just listening, or saying he understood, or didn't understand, or whatever - he just ARGUED with me. Like all the frickin' time. And that was his big argument, and he brandished it like it was the frickin' Koh-i-noor diamond:

"You don't trust me because you don't trust ANYONE," he'd say. "You NEED to learn how to TRUST PEOPLE. You're behaving wth me as you do with all the OTHER PEOPLE out there. How are you going to GET ANY BETTER if you're running away from what you're DOING IN HERE WITH ME?"

He would just never, ever accept any responsibility for the fact that he was a hostile, defensive slapnugget who blamed me exclusively for our terrible relationship.

So - yeah! That's right. The therapeutic relationship is a thing unto itself. It only very faintly echoes what we do with other people out there in the real world. It's different, it's weird. With my T, I'm not really practicing my social skills on him, the way I'd practice scales on a piano in preparation for the actual performance. The therapist is someone unlike anyone I've ever seen before - not my father, not my mother, not my co-worker, not my sibling, not the cashier at Safeway, and he's not like anyone I've ever encountered. So the relationship is never going to be a blueprint for what happens "out there."

Just wanted to repeat that I think you have a brilliant point, Critter

This sounds wrong. T is not supposed to tell you how to feel, or how not to feel.

Squiggle, how long are you going to make yourself sick avoiding talking to your therapist about this? You are stubborn.

I don't think the therapy relationship is supposed to be a blueprint for developing relationships with other people, because it is unique. I think it's supposed to create a safe place to explore our own thoughts, feelings, and behavior in relationships with someone who is knowledgeable, caring, and self-aware, but who also maintains enough distance to keep from getting all caught up in our own issues. I think the therapy relationship should help us gain insight into ourselves so that we understand ourselves well enough to make healthier choices in our real life relationships. It should be a place where we can safely explore our thoughts, feelings, and behaviors that occur within the therapy relationship itself, but its main purpose is to help us feel safe enough to explore all these things in a broader context, as we try to develop new relationships or resolve problems in existing relationships. In that sense, I see it as a very helpful tool, but I think sometimes T's aren't very good at defining the real purpose of the relationship, and then sometimes the therapy relationship itself ends up being the patient's goal, or the patient sometimes sees no purpose to the relationship at all.

Been thinking about this a little more. The therapy relationship itself really does become less intense and less important over time if it's used in the way it's meant to be used. When it provides the safety and security we need to help us understand ourselves and define our wants and needs and what we have to offer others, we are then much more likely to choose to be in relationships with people who can meet some of our needs, just as we are better able to meet some of their needs if we know ourselves well enough to know our limits. When we don't really know or understand ourselves very well, many times we end up in friendships and marriages that really aren't good for us because we don't know what to look for. So we come to therapy almost starving for whatever's been missing, except at first we don't know what's been missing, and then as we learn more about ourselves and begin to define what's been missing, all these intense feelings and longings can end up being transferred to the T. That's because we don't yet have another place for them -- either we don't have other relationships where some of those needs can be met, or maybe our existing relationships aren't meeting our needs because there are issues that need to be worked through in those relationships, or maybe we realize those relationships will never be gratifying because we've changed and grown but the other person hasn't and doesn't want to change and grow.
The therapy relationship will never be like "real life" adult relationships because it's closer to the parent/child relationship in the sense that it's one sided; it's about us and our therapeutic needs, so there's always going to be a parental element to it since that's the only other relationship it mimics in any way. There's no way to really escape that fact even for people who detest the word parental and who don't see the T as a parent figure at all. It's still a one sided relationship that exists to meet certain needs that we have, so it's not something we can replicate with other healthy adults.
And our original relationship with our parents, even though it sets the stage, so to speak, for our relationships with others, really isn't a blueprint for those relationships either. We don't use it to duplicate that relationship with others -- we use it as a starting point, but it's a crucial relationship even though it's not something we use as a blueprint. From the day we're born, a good enough parent should be preparing us for relationships with others and a life apart from our parents, in much the same way as a good enough T helps us prepare for life in the real world and the eventual end of therapy. The therapy relationship is definitely unique -- but so is the relationship we have with our parents. Neither can be used as an actual blueprint for other relationships, but both can provide the foundation we need to successfully develop and navigate those relationships.

I think it makes a difference if you are in "Christian Counseling". At least, I feel that way. There are certain things that I feel are not 'proper' to bring up. That's why I am having such a hard time with this. Will we go to what the Bible says about feelings such as this? Or will we stick to what psychology teaches us? Maybe she will choose one. Maybe both. This is where I am struggling so bad. Who can I turn to?

I want to talk it out with someone else. Not with her. That way I can sort this all out, and then (when my emotions are calmed down), I can bring it up to her. I have my own beliefs and morals about sex. My thoughts and feelings about her go against that. My sister went into therapy 20 years ago during a bitter divorce. She came out of therapy and married a woman. How did that happen?

Do you think you can locate another T just to talk about your feelings for your current T? Would you be comfortable doing that or would you feel like you're being dishonest with your T if you don't tell her? I still think it's best to tell your T and ask her if she thinks it would help you to talk to someone else about this particular issue. I do think that all issues are related, though--so it might be like starting over and you don't want to do that!

Being a Christian myself, I understand some of the apparent conflicts between what the Bible says and what psychology teaches us. I also know that some Christian counselors are more traditional and fundamental than others, and those who are more traditional and fundamental are more likely to view the thoughts and feelings themselves as wrong or sinful. That makes it impossible to work through these kinds of issues because the only solution is prayer and repentance for thoughts and feelings. Contemporary Christian counselors, on the other hand, recognize thoughts and feelings as being different than behaviors. I think if your T is more moderate or contemporary in her beliefs, then you can talk to her about your thoughts and feelings because she can separate them from your actions.
As for your sister... well, any number of things could have happened in her therapy, none of which may happen in yours. Maybe she realized in therapy that she had been married to a man just because it was the acceptable thing to do, and after therapy she felt more confident in herself and no longer wanted to do what she was expected to do regardless of her feelings and desires. I don't know what happened or how it happened, but it doesn't mean it will happen to you.

Ouch! If faith and therapy pull it opposite directions, you must feel terrible!

Wow I just wanted to say thanks! Your post was incredibly helpful!!! This is what my T has been trying to explain to me, but you did it in easier terms. My parents didnt meet my needs, so I naturally look to him as a father figure. He wants mew to use our relationship as a model for my future healthy relationships. I didn't understand how that worked until your post. Thanks again!!

I'm a Christian too. Whether you call it biology, or the ultimate gift from our creator, one thing I know for sure is that we are hard wired to love each other. Another thing I know for sure is that we were charged to "be fruitful and mulitply". Right now what I think you are experiencing are extreme feelings of each. It's okay, I think it was what therapy was designed to do - evoke extreme emotion and bring to light our most basic, essential impulses.

I will continue to maintain that under these extreme conditions, these two strong forces are becoming conflated with each other. It's okay. You're human. Being human is outrageously confusing.

I understand that the non-judgemental stance of most therapies appears to be in conflict with what we are taught as Christians, but the essential tenet of each is a common vein - grace. Try to open yourself to that grace and accept it. Try to offer yourself that grace.

It's what we can give ourselves, and it is what we were promised by the kind, benevolent, understanding God of our tradition.

I really really think you should cut yourself some slack here. If you think that going outside of the church will provide you with the guidance and help that you need, then you should definitely do that I think. Grace comes in many many forms, and, as the saying goes, "God works in mysterious ways....".

I really think that you will be okay. That this is something that can be resolved and you will emerge a much wiser, better person for it.

Again, you will be okay. We were promised this in so many ways. Try to find your best way to this okay.

Being that we talk about sexual issues alot, she is definitely more on the comtemporary side of this. She is a licensed therapist, as well as a Christian. I think this gives her both angles to take a look at this situation. Sometimes the battles we fight are "spiritual warfare/attacks from satan" other times, it is just because we live in this world and we face the same things that any other person may be conflicted with.

When she knows how much I want to be a part of my church, and then I tell her stuff like this, I worry that she may think I am not 'worthy' to be in leadership within my church. This is where I struggle so much.

On the other hand, no matter what position you may hold within your church, you will still be tempted and faced with 'sin' just like a person who is not a believer. It's just part of the journey. I have the head knowledge about all of this. I can talk to someone else about how to get through this kind of ordeal, but to make MYSELF believe it when I am the one facing it......... that is another story.

That's true, we all face temptation regardless of our beliefs. And I would hope that your T could recognize that just because others may not talk about their "sinful" desires or feelings, it doesn't mean they aren't experiencing them. It might just mean that others aren't as courageous as you are when it comes to facing those issues.
If you keep that in mind, it may help you believe that you are just as worthy as anyone else to be in a leadership position within your church. You are probably far less likely to act on those desires and feelings than many other people simply because you are willing to acknowledge and face them and work them through, whereas many other people would remain in denial and try to suppress those feelings. Those are the people who tend to get caught off guard by the power of "sinful" desires feelings and they are at higher risk of acting on them.

Yes, therapy does bring out extreme emotions! I get the love part, that is not where I am having an issue. It is the sexual part that is bothering me the most.

I am sure that once this all settles down, I will see that there was a reason/lesson to be learned from this. I just wish that I didn't have to sit face to face with her and talk about it. It would be so much easier to do this through email with her. Unfortunately, she won't go for that. She will allow me to email, but she will expect us to talk about it when we meet for our session.

I know that part of this has to do with my marriages. Both of them lacked the intimacy that I believe God meant for a marriage to have. That is, a healthy sexual relationship. Too many times that part of the marriage gets so twisted that neither spouse is satisfied and thus, the breaking down of the marriage begins.

Pornography detroyed my marriage. It is on the mend right now, but you can't erase 20 years of that. For me, pornography is wrong. It is very demeaning to a woman. It tore our relationship apart. Can it be repaired? Yes, to some degree. But can it really be restored? Can all the pain, hurt, anger and guilt be taken away? I don't know about that. This is what I am working on in therapy. Maybe because we talk about this in therapy, I am being faced with this erotic transference for my therapist? I don't know. It is not easy to talk about and I am confused by my feelings.

How can I be upset with my husband when I am having these (improper) thoughts about my therapist? The difference is that he wanted the thoughts and visual images that he sought out by using pornography. I don't want these thoughts, feelings, emotions, etc.......that I am facing.

The difference is that he acted on those feelings and desires without regard for the effect it would have on you, and you are not acting on them -- you are trying to understand the feelings and desires and work them through instead.

I am tempted to have this thread deleted. I tend to do that when I feel that I have exposed myself too much. This is embarrassing. Why would I want anyone to know? I want to stop these thoughts, not keep them going by talking with others about them. I think I am really mixed up sometimes.

Oh, Squiggle. I wish some of us could be anonymous but still meet in RL I'd give you a big hug right now! I feel like I expose myself too much here, too. But it fills a need to tell, to share, to be validated for my struggles. I think it's the same for you. No one is judging you here. Hopefully, we will all stay anonymous so you don't have to worry about being embarrassed. You don't want to talk about it but you do. Or you wouldn't. I do think very strongly that you need to talk about it in person with your T or another T. That may help the need to talk so much here.

Ahhh, the real reasons finally come out!! Yes!! Can you talk to your T about these 2 reasons?

Would it help to know that you are not alone? I see my T as my mother. She knows I pretend she is. My T has also said on many occasions that I am a surrogate daughter to her. At the same time, I have sexual feelings for her. I feel terrible because we often cuddle. I wonder if she'd allow me to be so close to her if she knew how I felt. One time I had to pull away from her because I felt so aroused. I'm actually bisexual so having feelings for a woman does not disturb me. What does disturb me is having essentially incestuous feelings. People say on here that we should bring these feelings up no matter what, but I disagree. Just as you have legitimate reasons not to, so do I. It would change everything between us. I try to tell myself that I feel those feelings because I lack intimacy in my life. I know I'm not really attracted to her. I know the mother feelings are much deeper. I had hoped the feelings would decrease over time but they actually have grown. I dont know what to do but I know I won't tell her. I have some comfort in knowing that at least my feelings are common to those who are in therapy, though they are kind of sick.

Many people have lives they have not chosen for themselves. Therapy helps them to see that. And once they realise they are free to choose, they do!

Should I talk to her or not? I am confused about what to do. Will this just pass without me bringing it up? Will I be able to get over it by myself? Will it do more harm than good? Am I just looking for something to sabotage my therapy so that she will terminate me? She has said this to me before. She says that I look for things that may make people reject me. Kinda like I can say, "See, I told you that you would leave me!"

Maybe I am making all of this up? Maybe I was triggered by the article on EroticTransference? For some reason, anything that comes up about my therapist that I interpret as a boundary crossing, I go balistic! When I found a picture of her and her family, I had a nervous breakdown thinking she would terminate me. When I realized that we had a mutual friend I went into a total state of panic. Then I found her address and thought for sure that was the end of the world.

Now that all this erotic transference has hit the fan, I feel like I have commited a crime and need to be locked up in jail. I mean that. I go to the EXTREME when it comes to my therapist. Why? Why do I fear crossing that boundary so much? What am I really afraid of? Logically, I know this is over the top and my reactions are not normal. But why do I do this? I don't know if I could take it if something else happened that I may feel crosses a boundary.

OMGoodness! If I happened to end up at the same store or location she was at the same time, I would think she might wonder if I was stalking her. I may just faint dead away right there! This is pure insanity. I need to go to my room and never come out! I need some serious help.

I hope you will talk to her.
You are not making this up.
If you were triggered, then that is an excellent reason to bring it up with T.