how to change thought patterns

I am aware that it is good to try and do/think/act/behave differently. I am aware that it is useful to discuss any reasons behind why I am fearful of doing things differently. Intellectually I understand all of this.

But when I am told of ideas that I could implement e.g being supportive of myself rather than critical, and I can't do it, I feel stupid and useless. And I beat myself up further for not being able to be kind to myself.

I hate myself for not being able to be nice, kind and supportive of myself. I feel as though I'm causing all of my problems because I cannot seem to get to this point. I just really really don't want to be supportive because I really hate me and I don't believe that being supportive will make me safe. I hate writing that I hate myself because I can hear how that sounds to others - it doesn't help to hate myself!

I know I need to take risks and try things differently and I genuinely hate knowing that I am the only person preventing myself from being the person I want to be. But it seems impossible to get past that barrier, if I say to myself 'Abby you are a good person, believe in yourself' then it will be a big fat lie.

I mean I know I have good qualities and I am not a bad person in that I don't do immoral things....but it is beneath that. I can't hear my therapist asking if there is another voice other than the critical one and saying 'can you be supportive' one more time - because I feel like yelling 'NO! - do you not understand, this isn't a choice I'm making, I get that it makes sense to be nice to myself but I CAN'T do it so stop saying it over and over again because just repeating it doesn't make it any easier!!'.

How do I find that voice?! Why does my therapist not realise I don't have that voice - or does she believe I do have one and therefore doesn't believe me when I say 'i can't and thinks I mean 'I won't.

If you cannot find a supportive voice, how about a voice angry at the negative voice? Do you like being called names and belittled? No? Then get angry at that voice and tell it to. . . [insert really long, funny, place for it to go] -- kind of like the Riddikulus spell in Harry Potter?



When you put yourself down, look at the wording and how you do it; it is rarely very complicated or difficult to poke holes in? Point out its flaws, make fun of it not having more fifty cent words :-) Revile it with all the imagination and intelligence you have and it will slink away under the onslaught.

Can you ask her these things? Sounds like a good discussion for you to have.

I found what most helped me with fearful thinking was doing what I was afraid of and surviving. Getting through the feared experience, having things turn out well or OK helped convince my brain that I needn't be so afraid. My "success" helped disprove my fear.

It sounds like this whole "be supportive to yourself, Abby" refrain has become a trigger to you. Can you drop that for now and work on a different angle? How about trying some of things you are fearful of? Get a bit more concrete and less abstract than "be supportive." Have some achievable goals and do them. Even if small you will get some success, and it is reinforcing. I agree it would be hard to respond positively if the therapist kept saying "be supportive" over and over again. What else does she try with you?

It breaks my heart that you feel this way. i can relate to how you feel. I'm not sure exactly how to answer your questions because im still trying to figure them out myself but you're not causing all of these problems. you cant change the way you view yourself as easily as what other people may think. You're therapist probably means well but if shes never felt this way herself shes probably just ignorant to how difficult and frustrating not being able to change is. Like sunrise said above, maybe asking her these same questions will help you guys come up with another approach to changing these feelings.

Have you seen the Eating Disorder books by Jenny Schaefer? I'm "just" fat, but when I read how her ED "talks" to her (she calls "him" "Ed") - wow, a) it sounded just like my parents AND b) it sounded like my own self-talk, and I never realized how negative either were. So she wrote about "divorcing Ed" as her way of getting rid of the thoughts. It was creative and helpful.

It also helps to look at why I am afraid, or just to realize I AM afraid, and other truths about how my parents treated me, or the excuses I made for them. I always said, I know I'm smart but nobody else knows it. Well, who is "nobody else"? I THOUGHT I meant that I wasn't meeting the really brainy guys I'd hoped to. The truth was, my family never thought I was smart, despite my report cards of almost all A's - because my older brother told my mother I only got good grades because the nuns liked me, and she believed him. I didn't find out about this lie until I was in my 50's. It affected my entire life. So - did someone need to keep you down to make themselves feel good? I think finding the reason behind your negative self-talk can uncover why it feels unsafe to change it. I would lose my place in my family and be all alone. My brother would hate me. etc. I would have to face these things.

I relate so much and I'm working on this right now. When I'm in a depressed mood, I throw a lot of abusive, self-deprecating words at myself. My T has told me a couple things that have helped. She said that even though those things I say to myself really feel true, it doesn't mean they are true. Such a simple, yet powerful concept!

She's also been working with me on differentiating between "what I did was bad" versus "I am bad." I thought through it myself and said that I didn't think anyone was fundamentally flawed- as in, when i think of all the little babies being born, I wouldn't say ANY of them are "bad." That includes me then! Something I came up with was, since I have a picture in my room of me with my grandpa from nearly 20 years ago (I was about 5 in the pic), I can't throw those same harsh words at her. I'm her, and neither of us deserve to be verbally abused by anyone, especially not by myself.

My favorite response, though, is something my T said today. She told me that the next time those voices start saying I'm not worth it to tell them a big "F*** you!" I grinned a bit at her cursing and she said that she wasn't kidding, she was being serious. That I should tell the negative voices "F*** you!" and "Go away!" I LOVE it! I can't wait to use this technique

And while I'm typing, I just remembered another thing. Something I'm working on continually is finding evidence that I'm not those things. It doesn't have to be a big reason, but just some small proof that I'm not so worthless/screwed up/pathetic/etc. At first I only had one example. Now, I'm slowly adding more. And I actually have been able to, in a time of distress, remind myself that at least those times I was NOT all those horrible things I say/believe sometimes.

I really hope I helped a bit!

I think that silencing the negative voices is a first step towards positive self-talk. Interrupt them, ZIP IT , F-U , or just Knock it OFF... don't let "them" finish a sentence. Love the idea of having an even more negative voice tell the other one to shove it.

I hope you and your therapist are exploring what "I can't" means and what saying "No" means. Saying "No" is a way of saying "I do have a voice". Saying no is a way of saying 'I will think for myself', 'I will do what I want', and on the surface it may sound obstinate and negative, but underneath that there are other things going on.
My therapist has suggested that it's a way of being heard, a way of fending off engulfment.
We have also explored the idea of going along, and have thought together about what that means and what it means to not go along.
We've also explored the fears associated with trying things I want to try, doing things I want to do - the fears that can seem small but can be huge roadblocks to what we want.

So there is a lot to learn. We are complex, thoughtful people and not Pavlov's dogs. When it is the right time for you to take risks, you will. You may still have some fears and uncertainty, but you will be able to when you are able to. There is no judgement or pressure to perform.

My t often reminds me about "I can't" when I use it during a session. She will simply ask "You can't or you choose not to? There is a difference, sconnie." That has really been the first step for me correcting thought patterns. It's taken me over 6 moths to "get" what she was trying to teach me in just that one phrase. Now I find I can ask myself that question when I am making a choice in RL.

It takes time and a lot of work to learn to recognize and then change how we think.

Yeah, you have 2 levels. An intellecual one and your emotions. Your head is telling you that you need to do this and you need to do that but your emotions are in control and blocking this. Find the source to your feelings about this issue. Unlock those and then you won't be blocked anymore to doing what you want/need to do.

The above reminds me, with the can't-versus-choose-not-to, also -- I started underlining the word "want" when I use it in my journal, to emphasize that I am not just doing the automatic, "if wishes were horses, beggars would ride" thing and am aware of consciously desiring something and intending to go after it. I think I sometimes must look a little funny, when I hesitate before I underline or change the word/entry all together.

Thank you all for your replies, they were all so helpful.

Perna - I love your suggestion. I double-bind myself sometimes by being critical of the critical thoughts which often leaves me feeling worse. I really like the idea that instead of telling myself that I shouldn't feel a certain way that I mock the critical voice for being so unintelligent in its own thought processes. Could you help me though - how will I be able to tell where the line is between mocking the voice and mocking me?

Sunrise - I really like the idea of having small attainable goals rather than abstracts. My biggest fear is being near people that make me feel emotionally unstable when I already feel quite vulnerable. My critical voice often forces me to be in situations where I do feel really scared. This can feel very overwhelming but it has also helps me to not withdraw from my life. I guess my biggest fear therefore would be to be in a vulnerable situation and not have a 'back up' plan or the safety of the critical voice because, as bizarre as it sounds, it keeps me in very well defined controlled boundaries. I'm scared that this other supportive voice that I don't have would allow everything to spill in and out.

KellyJo - I appreciate your response but I am sorry you are in the same situations. I hope you also find answers and ideas from this thread!

Hankster - no I've not read that book. It is an interesting idea to 'divorce' the critical thoughts. In writing this thread I've realised how much I am actually attached to my crical thoughts and how much I feel I 'need' them to feel safe. My therapist says that familiarity feels safe, and I always took that to mean - 'take risks only the weak do the same thing over and over getting the same results' - but what I have realised is that I need to talk about how much I need to feel safe, and that I don't feel any supportive voice will be strong enough to protect me. From what? Myself?

Rainboots - your reply was really helpful, thank you. I like the idea of trying to create a supportive voice by collecting positive things people have said about me. I know that when I'm in the middle of my negative moods I lose these so may be I should write them down? I am beginning to reach out more for support, perhaps I should rely on their voice until I find my own.

Growlycat - yes I think you are absolutely right. Perna's idea of not letting the critical voice have as much authority is more something I can do right now than saying something kind/supportive to myself.

Echos - thank you so much for saying that I will take risks when I am ready. I think I needed to hear that it is okay to be where I am right now but to not lose faith that I can move forward. I think perhaps when I say no to my therapist I am afraid of being engulfed by her. I think I get angry at myself when I'm not able to 'live up to' the expectations I perceive she has of me. I think I am very scared of being made to do or feel something I don't feel able to. I'm scared of not being what she wants but at the same time I'm scared of being forced to be someone I'm not for her. All very complicated!

Sconnie - my therapist has said the same thing to me. And I agree, I have the choice in regards to my behaviour/actions but I don't feel I have a choice over my thoughts/feelings. My thoughts come from my feelings not the reverse. Thank you.

Sannah - as you know I'm working on getting to the source of my feelings and I believe I'm a lot nearer than I was a year ago. However it does feel my feelings get in such a tangle that there doesn't seem to be a end at times! I, of course, will keep trying though.

** I apologise for the length of this post. I wanted to reply individually to each of your replies because they were all so insightful and helpful. **

A strange thing that I'm starting to discover in myself is this....

I, too, have an internal critic that bashes me quite frequently.....T is trying to help me see that I have somehow internalized others voices, ones that berated me when I was growing up, etc. There's some validity to that.

BUT, there's this other voice.....a critical voice that seems to be shielding me, protecting me. The voice that says that I am unlovable, ugly, worthless...at times is helping me not take risks in life....The real issue is that I'm scared. I'm scared to death of being rejected, of being hurt again, of feeling shame and humiliation, etc. Instead of facing those feelings and fears, I listen to that critical voice - to mask those other feelings - so I shut down and not take risks.

Not sure if you can relate to that, but I just wanted to put it out there in case it's helpful...

I can relate. We do some CBT in therapy and I'm constantly being told that changing my thoughts/behaviors will eventually help my feelings change. I just don't know. It's so so so hard. I struggle to find any thought that is good about myself. It feels like lying and i don't want to lie.

My thoughts are with you as you struggle as well.

This is a difficult lesson to learn, and Ts have to be very careful how they teach it.

If the patient sincerely believes she can't (and most of us do at first), then telling her she can sounds like nonsense and bullying.

I agree. When I started, I would get very angry at my t reminding me of the difference between "can't" and "choose not to". She was gentle but firm with the question. If t had approached it differently I am not sure I would have learned the lesson.

Now I more often than not find myself saying "I choose not to" instead of "I can't." It has been a very empowering lesson for me to learn.

Mixed_up emotions - what you wrote is very helpful and I do relate to it all. Thank you. My voice is exactly like yours it is horrid in that it is so nasty but at the same time I love it because I can rely on it. I know it will keep me safe. I'm not a big fan of emotions in general! I do need to take risks and trust. I am following a path of trust with my therapist. So how did you move forward? Any advice/tips?!

Roseleigh - I am glad you can relate. But there may be external things you do that you can intergrate as a 'good' part of you. Even simple things like smiling at the bus driver....don't under-estimate yourself!

Can't explain and Sconnie - I could may be use that for some of my behaviours although I probably already do tbh. Often I say 'i choose not to not try and self harm today because I'm angry' (lots of double negatives in that sentence!)....or 'I am choosing not to go to the gym even though I know it makes me feel better' but then I get angry at myself for making so poor decisions! I agree that the difference between choosing something and thinking you are not able to do something can be very subtle. And I think sometimes I actively self-sabotage...it is about learning the difference....

Sometimes a simple mental check works for me, like asking myself "Will this help me reach my goal(s)?". I use this for my problems with eating badly and not exercising. I want to eat better and feel better. So, when tempted, I ask 'If I eat this, will it help me reach my goal?', or if I am making excuses for doing something (eating this) or avoiding (skipping exercise) the question can help me reaffirm my desires and goals and think more about what I'm doing.