Maybe former T wasn't wrong after all!

Thanks very much, CantExplain. I have thought that way at times, but for some reason it doesn't last. I've cried a lot about what T can't be. And what former Ts can't be either. I grieve, cry, accept but the cycle still repeats and I don't know why! I am aware of what my T does for me yet I am still angry and sad. More sad now than angry, because it's a loss that I know I MUST accept. I am glad that you're in a better place than me. It helps to know that you understand and have the feelings you do. I hope I get there too. The hurt is SO huge for me........ yet I KNOW my T does a lot for me. It's like comparing apples and oranges to me though. I've GOT to get past this. But how? Intellectually I understand it but my emotional mind is still stuck in that place of wanting..... When she says "it's not about me" I feel this awful pain. It feels like it NEEDS to be about her, not that I WANT it to be.

This is the distraction away from what it really is about?

I logged back on to answer you, Sannah. I think it really IS about the need for my T, or someone like her. It IS about those unmet needs. That is what hurts the most. It's about ME wanting those things from SOMEONE but that SOMEONE DOESN'T EXIST! Is that distraction? It's what hurts, those NEEDS not getting satisfied. Am I in denial or something?
I meant NEEDS as a noun, not a verb in my previous post. Is that why I'm confused?

rainbow, i think that is just it. i think it is about your mom and the fact that she isn't around anymore. she was the one who filled all those needs and wants and her absence has left you bereft. no one can replace her but once you have fully grieved the loss of her you will experience some peace. rather than grieving it seems you try to get your Ts to fill the hole that is the absence of your mom. none of them can ever do that though and then you get upset about that. your mom was a one-of-a-kind. she can't be replaced.

Rainbow, do these kinds of feelings happen only in T relationships or do they happen in all of your close relationships?

Rainbow:
Your therapist can't be your friend.
Your friends can't be your therapist.

In therapy, a therapist has a certain way of being that is best for you and all her clients--she's there for her clients and purposefully doesn't do certain things for your best interest like become your friend, engage in inappropriate touch, hang out with you away from sessions and meet your grandchildren. Therapy is all about you and you alone, not her. It isn't about working on a friendship as you know friendships. It is a unique relationship designed to be safe and focused on the client.

There are limits to the relationship.

If you cannot focus or stand it, then maybe your therapist's suggestion was right about needing to stop therapy. Since you have started with her it seems like you have been involved in an obession in your mind.

You might try understanding that your therapist is a human and has faults. She would never be the "perfect friend" you imagine her to be. You don't see all her faults, but she has them like all of us do. If she were in your real life, like you seem to want, she would never be able to meet all your needs and you would be left wanting just as you are now. It isn't about her. It is about something inside you. That is why this pattern has repeated with all your therapists. It is inside you. No amount of hand holding, hugging, or attention can take it away.

You have to do the work of filling yourself up. That will help.
It takes time and persistence.
It is the only way out of pain.
Radical acceptance can help as can the other skills you can learn in DBT.

rainbow, i think that it may not be about NEEDS at all but LOSS, again the loss of your mom. it may be the reason you can't figure out what the childhood unmet needs are is because this is not really about unmet childhood needs but an adult loss. it's true your mom fostered a very dependent relationship with you, so in some ways you were left emotionally in a younger place even as an adult. then, when your mom died you were not really equipped emotionally to handle her loss. losing a close parent is always going to be difficult but especially so when one is overly dependent on them.

you have mentioned manytimes your anxiety about your T's skinny weight, that she might get sick & your appointments get cancelled, your anxiety when your T or loved ones travel, your fear of airplanes, etc. i believe these are all a fear of the death of loved ones and again connected to the fear of facing your mom's death.

i think it's even possible the reason you can't cry when with your T is not because of shame but because when you are with your T is when you are comforted. it is the LOSS or absence of T that is what is upsetting to you. therefore, you cry in the car or at home when not with her. this is again about the LOSS of your mom and your T is a substitute for your mom as you told us once when you said "if i never quit T it is like my mom never died". it is the ABSENCE of T that is upsetting not her presence. that is why your tears flow in her absence...because you haven't been able to fully grieve the loss of your mom.

rainbow, please allow yourself to fully grieve the loss of your mom. you will be okay.

rainbow,
there are limits to ALL relationships, not just the therapeutic one. No one will ever meet all those unmet needs. It's impossible. What you are looking for in Ts does not exist anywhere. I think it's great that you have started DBT. It will teach you how to cope with reality. You don't have to suffer all your life in search for someone to fill those unmet needs. DBT can teach you how to stop suffering. radical acceptance!

But do you think that would really be enough? If you were allowed into T's life as a close friend, you did artwork together and she met your grandchildren, then the end of the day would come and she would say "Rainbow, it's time for you to go home now. It's late and my husband and I are going to go to bed." Would you feel happy that you had a great day and look forward to going home to your own H? Or would you feel jealous that you were being asked to leave and T's H was the one who got to stay? I suspect it would be probably be the latter. It sounds as though you always want to be knocking down that bedroom door and jumping in between T and her H. From your history of posts, the "in love" and romantic feelings for your T seem to be a big part of your pattern and a big source of upset. The fact that you have these desires-- and then call them "icky"-- sounds like internal homophobia. It also sounds like denial or a defense mechanism-- the fact that you bring up those desires and then degrade them. (If they weren't there, you wouldn't bring them up at all). How would it feel to you if someone suggested you were bisexual? If that is the case, could you accept that part of yourself? Do you think the reason the "in love" feelings come up with all of your Ts is, in part, because you do have some desire bisexual desires that you have never acknowledged or explored? And in T, because it can never actually happen-- and you can write it off as transference or as "teenager" wants-- it makes it safter to feel? LIkely, the source of your pattern comes from many different places (not just one). And I think, as others have suggested, the loss of your mom might make a lot of sense (and probably a lot more sense than you never having had needs met that you say WERE met by your mom!). Did your pattern with Ts start before or after the loss of your mom? Before or after your relationship with your T stopped being satisfying? How old were you when your pattern started? Your pattern with your Ts may be a way of compensating for several different things you are missing as an adult, not as a child.

I too think you are grieving the wrong thing. In the past when anyone raises the issue of your mother you barely address it or ignore it completely. Does it NEED to be about T because facing what it is really about (your mom) is just too painful?

As enmeshed as your mom was with you there were many things you needed from her in her lifetime that you never received. I don't think it is coincidental that love, unconditional acceptance and emmeshment are the things you repeatedly seek from your Ts. As long as you can get these from your Ts you don't have to ever face the loss of your mom.

Conversely, as long as you don't face the loss of your mom and all that it means for you, you will have this NEED to avoid it through enmeshment with your Ts.

As much as your pattern protects you, it also keeps you trapped.

I HAVE grieved for my Mom, at least I think I have, blur. Former Ts had me write letters "to" her, and then write a letter "from" her, and read them out loud. I did that with 3 Ts, including my current one. I cried at home when I wrote the letters. My Mom died in 1983. That's a long time ago. I cry when I think that one of my daughters never met my Mom. I've brought in photos of my Mom and made a collage about her in therapy. My current T asked me if I have anything of hers to wear, and I found a bracelet that I now now wear. I don't know how else to grieve. I feel bad that my Mom was not here to see her grandchildren grow up. Is that not grieving?

That's the thing. They don't happen in close real relationships, only with those who are unavailable to me.

I told my T that the only answer is radical acceptance. I really do like my DBT group. Last year I read all the handouts but it's not the same as being in a group. Thank you, butterflying.

Again, what do you think grieving for my Mom would look like? It's hard after almost 30 years!!! I've written new letters "to my Mom" and read them in therapy. I've cried when I've written them. I told my T I miss my Mom, and that I often wished my Mom were the one who lived such a long life rather than my Dad. I'm not sure how else to grieve for her.

Thanks, Tay. I hope DBT will teach me that. I know about radical acceptance but I still feel crummy.

So, it started way back. If you don't count the child crushes, though I do, it was after marriage.

Again, I'm interested in how else I'm supposed to face the death of my Mom, especially when she died so many years ago. I'll ask my T if she thinks I've grieved enough for my Mom. Her specialty is grief and loss, so she ought to know!

I appreciate all of the thoughtful replies and for your trying to help me "figure it out". I really do. I also appreciate them being written in a compassionate way.

((( Rainbow )))

It's so difficult to know so much - yet still not know how to change the pattern or the feelings that arise. So frustrating...(( HUGS ))

Thank you for understanding, MUE. I feel like parts of the puzzle are not only missing, but lost so that I will never find them. I need to radically accept that I won't know exactly why I have these needs. I think I can use DBT skills already! It's a dialectic. I don't have all the answers AND I can still accept the way I am, and change. For anyone who took DBT, is that correct? Dialectic says there's more than one answer.

hi rainbow, i hope you realize i wasn't saying you haven't grieved but rather that you probably haven't grieved enough. i think grieving is more of a process with many layers than something that can be taken care of by a few exercises or sessions. as for how to grieve i do think your T would be a great person to ask about that, and whether she believes you've fully grieved the death of your mom. as i mentioned before one thing you could do is join a bereavement group to hear others share their stories and to share your own. sometimes it is when we hear others share that we are able to really relate and access our own stuff. another thing you could do is see an existential T for a period of time because issues of death are their specialty from what i gather. i'm sort of surprised you haven't done that when i hear you talk about your fears surrounding your own and other loved ones' death.

i wanted to clarify that the reason i've mentioned your mom's death as key to your pattern with your Ts, not all your other life's problems, is for several factors including that statement you made a year or two ago "if i just stay in therapy forever it's like my mom never died" (my paraphrase). i believe that was a moment of real clarity and candor on your part. it doesn't matter how long ago your mom died for it to still be affecting you. after all, you go on in your post to talk about mundane things in elementary school like your childhood crushes and seem to think that somehow has affected you still today. really? personally, i think we have to be careful not to go digging thru one's past trying to come up with an explanation for a current problem. i think we have to start with what we are currently struggling with, listen carefully, and then find the thread and follow it back to its source rather than digging around in our past trying to find something that could possibly fit and assign it meaning. i'm not saying you're doing that but just to be careful of it. it isn't that i think you had some perfect childhood and have no unmet childhood needs--i don't think that at all--but rather looking at the evidence of your present life & struggles i think it largely points to something else. i'm sure your childhood did impact your pattern too but just not in the ways that i see you suggesting.

that statement you made here combined with your incredible fears of Ts health, her or your other loved one's dying in accidents, fear of flying, etc. really indicate to me that this is all about a fear of the death of your loved ones. those aren't the only reasons i think your pattern is mostly about your mom's death but significant ones. i remember reading a book by h. norman wright, a psychologist, and he said when we have fully grieved our losses then we no longer struggle with the fears of them repeating. so, i think a possible indicator of knowing when you have completed the grieving process for your mom is when your fears about your other loved ones' dying is significantly lessened. i think that could be a good indicator.

Rainbow,
I think DBT is going to be a key element in your struggles! You seem to have already sensed that. This longing for your therapist isn't going to go away overnight. That's okay. DBT talks about radical acceptance being the way out of hell and suffering which is where you appear to be now. Also in DBT it talks about nonjudgmental attitude--which includes the judgements you put upon yourself, so you can ease up, accept the T relationship as it is and eventually you may come to love the T relationship with its limits because those limits will actually feel GOOD.

This is what I think that you need to work on. All of these crushes that you described were relationships that occurred in your head with people that weren't available. You can work on this in therapy. This was the exact reason that I went to my first therapist. You can work through this.