[rainbow8]

My session hurt but I think it was productive. First I told her I wasn't honest last week about NOT wanting to be the "most special" to her. I even said I thought I was, because we have a lot in common. Of course she didn't comment on that except to say I am "very special". She asked how I feel about my daughters, and that each is special in her own way. I said, I know, and the teacher with 30 students cares about each one in a different way. So, I felt bad though I knew that was the answer I'd get. I'm not more special than any of her other clients.

I told her that I go to therapy mostly to be with her, and that's the way it's been with all my Ts. I thought she'd think this was a huge confession, but she just said she knows that's how I feel!

I told her my "fantasy" about wanting to be friends or sisters and go to her house, and meet her family, and how I wish she could meet my family, and how much it hurts because that can't ever happen. How much it hurts when she said last week "it's not about ME". I said it hurts my stomach very deeply. She said she understands, that it's like a pit. I never use that term but at least she validated me. I told her how hard it is for me.

So, then I asked her who is it about if it's not her. Is it about my Mom? She said it's my Mom and Dad, it's early unmet needs, the same old story. I asked her (thanks, Blur) if she thought I did enough grieving for my mother. She said you grieve all of your life, so there really isn't an answer to that.

Then, somehow I got back to feeling bad because I wasn't the most special to her. So, she had me close my eyes and think of my parents loving me when I was a child, surrounding me with their love. She asked how I felt. I said I felt sad because they aren't here any more. I was still thinking about my T though, because I said "You're here but you're not either." No one is here. But, for a minute I realized how hard I was fighting it NOT being about my T. For a moment I "saw" my parents loving me, and I felt sad. I told T, "it felt like you weren't there and it was about them!" It wasn't about YOU! That's an insight! She said "yes" it is.

But it was so hard to go back there. I said my parents were "blurry" while adult me and T were clear, and there was a line separating my parents and little me, from my T and adult me.

Then we talked about how I thought my Mom was "old" when she died but she really wasn't, and how I was young, though I thought I was "old" then, and how my feelings now don't seem different from a younger person's. She said even 80 year olds have the same feelings!

The bottom line is that I had a glimpse of it being "not about her" and how much I still want it to be, and how hard it is for it to be about my parents instead. I told her it was hard to stay with the images from the past.

The session was bittersweet. Painful. Different but the same. It hurt when I had to leave but I didn't cry until I got into my car, as usual. It still hurts because I WANT it to be about my T. What I do know is how much she cares about me. That never changes. It's kind of hard, though.

[Miswimmy1]

It hurts... I've gone through the same thing. You have no idea, the time spent wishing I could go to my ts house, see her horse, live with her. Although my situation is a bit different (I wish she could be my mom and u wish for her to be your sister), I totally get it. I've had to have the same convo with my t, and I was an emotional mess te next couple days. It hurts. But u will be ok.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Miswimmy1

It hurts... I've gone through the same thing. You have no idea, the time spent wishing I could go to my ts house, see her horse, live with her. Although my situation is a bit different (I wish she could be my mom and u wish for her to be your sister), I totally get it. I've had to have the same convo with my t, and I was an emotional mess te next couple days. It hurts. But u will be ok.

Thanks, Miswimmy. I don't think your situation is different. I wish my T were my friend, my sister, my partner, and my Mom, all rolled into one. She and I agreed about that today. It's just easier for me to say I want her to be my friend/sister, than my mother, but the bottom line is that I want her to be someone who takes care of me and is always there for me, and that's usually a mother. I've had this conversation many times, and it hurts just as much. Now I'm at the point where I have to accept it because it hurts more when I don't.

[Miswimmy1]

It sounds like your t is handling it well tho... I emailed me t my feelings and she called me wanting to talk about it. I was an emotional mess and I got off the phone and cried. And the next day I could barely make it through the school day. We havent talked about it since. Does it get easier??

[rainbow8]

It's gotten easier for me to talk about my feelings for my Ts because ever since my first T (I've had 5) I've gradually learned how to say what's on my mind, and my feelings for my Ts were always on my mind! But if you ask do the feelings themselves get easier, for me the answer is "no". My Ts have always shattered my dreams and it's just now that I realize I can't live like that anymore. It's a very difficult journey, but hopefully yours will be easier than mine. We are each unique and our paths are always a little bit different.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I told her that I go to therapy mostly to be with her and that's the way it's been with all my Ts.

Me too!

Originally Posted by rainbow8

The session was bittersweet. Painful. Different but the same. It hurt when I had to leave but I didn't cry until I got into my car, as usual. It still hurts because I WANT it to be about my T. What I do know is how much she cares about me. That never changes. It's kind of hard, though.

Yup. All of that.

[rainbow8]

Thanks, everyone, for the hugs. Thank you for understanding, CantExplain. I feel more settled today. I'm close to tears about life--the way it is. I love my T and I love my parents. I wish my Mom had lived longer; it's not fair but that's the way it happened. G-d (that's the way I write His name) runs the world, not me. I feel close to my T when I discuss my mother, and closer to my Mom too. She doesn't have her parents either. I emailed her some of my feelings but it's all right. When it's not about her, emailing is okay for me. For everyone--

[Dreamy01]

Hugs. I get this too. I'm feeling very similarly at the moment. I've craved a deep connection all my life due to early neglect and this has always transferred over to my t's even when I try my best not to let it. My therapy always ends up becoming about the attachment. Right now I think the attachment is mostly why I see T because otherwise I'm in a better place. I've come to think the process is about the relationship most of the time. It can't be separated from the trauma because it's natural to carry all those needs into the person who is there and listens. It's horrible having to face those feelings but I do believe there's healing in doing it. It's also probably the most painful aspect of therapy to face.

[Sannah]

Good work Rainbow!

Originally Posted by Dreamy01

Hugs. I get this too. I'm feeling very similarly at the moment. I've craved a deep connection all my life due to early neglect and this has always transferred over to my t's even when I try my best not to let it. My therapy always ends up becoming about the attachment. Right now I think the attachment is mostly why I see T because otherwise I'm in a better place. I've come to think the process is about the relationship most of the time. It can't be separated from the trauma because it's natural to carry all those needs into the person who is there and listens. It's horrible having to face those feelings but I do believe there's healing in doing it. It's also probably the most painful aspect of therapy to face.

um. isn't ALL (psycho)therapy about the attachment? without it, you cant relearn proper connections/attachments.

[Dreamy01]

Originally Posted by TentativeConnection

um. isn't ALL (psycho)therapy about the attachment? without it, you cant relearn proper connections/attachments.

No I don't believe it is always a main part of therapy. It's common amongst people who have experienced truama, but not everyone who goes to therapy has a painful past. So not everyone gets deeply attached to their therapists. Some people go for help with short term issues.

[Luce]

I don't know if it is even possible to learn 'proper' attachments. Once the brain is developed it has developed... and the patterns of relationships we learn as children literally form part of our neural make up. That kind of stuff can't be 'done over'.
What we can change is our understanding of our patterns of relationships and modify our behaviors. But can we learn to attach properly, as in 'can we learn to form attachments like those who learned it in childhood'? I don't believe so... I think we can learn to do it 'better' than what we did before, but I doubt very much that we can learn to do it 'properly' (meaning in a fully healthy way).

[Sannah]

I changed my ability to attach.

[autotelica]

Originally Posted by TentativeConnection

um. isn't ALL (psycho)therapy about the attachment? without it, you cant relearn proper connections/attachments.

A lot people don't go to therapy for these reasons. Or maybe they do, but the work they do is centered more on correcting maladaptive behaviors rather than exploring feelings through transference.

[autotelica]

Originally Posted by Luce

I don't know if it is even possible to learn 'proper' attachments. Once the brain is developed it has developed... and the patterns of relationships we learn as children literally form part of our neural make up. That kind of stuff can't be 'done over'.
What we can change is our understanding of our patterns of relationships and modify our behaviors. But can we learn to attach properly, as in 'can we learn to form attachments like those who learned it in childhood'? I don't believe so... I think we can learn to do it 'better' than what we did before, but I doubt very much that we can learn to do it 'properly' (meaning in a fully healthy way).

The brain is much more fluid than I think you're giving it credit for. People can have whole sections of their brains removed and eventually relearn how to talk, walk, and think "normally".

And people are constantly learning. There are things that a person has an easier time learning in childhood (like speaking a different language), but that doesn't mean it's impossible for them to learn them in adulthood.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Luce

I don't know if it is even possible to learn 'proper' attachments. Once the brain is developed it has developed... and the patterns of relationships we learn as children literally form part of our neural make up. That kind of stuff can't be 'done over'.

I hope that's not true.

Isn't there evidence that psychotherapy actually changes the physical shape of the brain? I'm sure I read that somewhere.

The muscles you exercise grow bigger. And it is the same for brain areas.

[Luce]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I hope that's not true.

Isn't there evidence that psychotherapy actually changes the physical shape of the brain? I'm sure I read that somewhere.

I don't know about that, but it sounds fascinating!

The muscles you exercise grow bigger. And it is the same for brain areas.

I don't know about that - it sounds dubious (there ain't a whole lot of growing room in there!).

[Luce]

Originally Posted by Sannah

I changed my ability to attach.

I have changed mine too - but there is no doubt in my mind that I have not been able to achieve the degree of healthy human attachments that I might have been able to achieve if I had experienced healthy attachments during my formative years.

Here's an interesting article about attachment in therapy and how it heals: http://www.afterpsychotherapy.com/at...-relationship/

My own T says that exploring these things in therapy creates new neural pathways that help us grow and heal. It is possible to grow new pathways and change our patterns, even if it is terribly difficult and even though we may never be completely like people who grew up with 'normal' or 'good enough' attachments.

[geez]

Hi Rainbow!! Big hugs!! I haven't been around lately as I've been swamped but wanted to quickly check in and I saw your thread. I know how hard it can be to love your T. Since I've gone back to T1 I've been lucky enough to be able to keep an emotional distance. I also see her once a week in spin class and while we don't 'talk' in public we do chat about spin etc.... She seems more like a 'real person' if that makes sense. Not sure if it's because I see that she sweats like everyone else? LOL!!! I don't feel so attached to her like I used to (like the first go around of therapy with her). Am I being defensive? I declined seeing her this week and decided to wait a couple weeks for an appointment.

Were you crying for the loss of not having those feelings be about your T anymore?

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

Here's an interesting article about attachment in therapy and how it heals: http://www.afterpsychotherapy.com/at...-relationship/

My own T says that exploring these things in therapy creates new neural pathways that help us grow and heal. It is possible to grow new pathways and change our patterns, even if it is terribly difficult and even though we may never be completely like people who grew up with 'normal' or 'good enough' attachments.

Thanks for the link. My T says that EMDR changes the neural pathways in the brain.

Originally Posted by geez

Hi Rainbow!! Big hugs!! I haven't been around lately as I've been swamped but wanted to quickly check in and I saw your thread. I know how hard it can be to love your T. Since I've gone back to T1 I've been lucky enough to be able to keep an emotional distance. I also see her once a week in spin class and while we don't 'talk' in public we do chat about spin etc.... She seems more like a 'real person' if that makes sense. Not sure if it's because I see that she sweats like everyone else? LOL!!! I don't feel so attached to her like I used to (like the first go around of therapy with her). Am I being defensive? I declined seeing her this week and decided to wait a couple weeks for an appointment.

Were you crying for the loss of not having those feelings be about your T anymore?

No, I still have the feelings about my T though I'm starting to accept that it's about me. I was crying because I feel close to her (talking about my parents made me feel close to her even though it's not about her) so it hurts that she is so private about her H. I'm glad that you're doing so well with being back in therapy with T1 again!

[blur]

rainbow, i think it is great you were so honest with your T and told her that therapy is primarily about the relationship for you. i think that was a big revelation. you also asked her about the grieving and she said it takes a lifetime. honestly, i think your T really dropped the ball with her responses to both of these subjects. yes, grieving the loss of a close loved one takes a lifetime but that is not really the sort of grief i think your situation is about. that is more a general sense of grief whereas i believe your grief is the acute kind that you most likely just haven't completed. that is not something that should take a lifetime because then a person would not be able to be functional. for example, i have an old friend who suddenly lost her husband last year. it was a real shock as he was middle aged and had no known health problems. 1 1/2 years later she is making progress and moving forward with her life as she has obviously been grieving and dealing with her sudden, huge loss. will she grieve his loss the rest of her life? of course, but if she spent years not being able to function and take care of their kids or do everyday things then no she probably would not have done much grieving. i think you have not done the acute grieving of your mom you need to and that is why in your relationships with your Ts and your husband are so disordered. jmo.

your T also seemed to think you saying your therapy is primarily about having a relationship with her--rather than healing--is nothing new to her and yet i don't recall you ever admitting that to her before so that is new. i think both of these things were kind of huge for you to discuss with T and action needs to be now taken, or at least to start work on an action plan, but it sounds like more same as usual. and now, you are back to obsessing about your T and her H. this is the cycle that luce mentioned you go through. you get a glimpse that therapy is not about your T, you say she has crushed your dreams, you experience extreme distress, then you just go back into denial and obsess about your fantasy with her. then it repeats and nothing really changes. maybe a question to ask yourself is how is individual T going to help you overcome this pattern? it obviously hasn't in over almost 20 years and numerous Ts. why do you now think this is going to be any different when the last 2 1/2 years has resulted in just more of the same? i do think the DBT may help you cope a bit better, but i don't see it ending your pattern with your Ts unless you address the root issue and make some significant changes. i fear that you will just continue to repeat these cycles on and on although i certainly hope i'm wrong about that. i wish you well rainbow, and since it seems like i am trying to get you to see something i don't think you want to see i will not continue to post to you as that is not helping either one of us, so i will say goodbye. good luck rainbow.

[Brightheart]

Rainbow, just curious, have any of your therapists ever mentioned codependency?

This is one of those " I don´t get Rainbow" posts of mine. There really isn´t any judging ....But I can´t let go of something you write sometimes and it breaks my heart.

You often write...."It´s not fair that I lost my mum"..( in my 30´s as an adult)

This is not an attempt to say someones pain is worse or less than others.

I am saying that I literally cry when you write something like that...still after so many years-

Sorry it really gets to me and have for a long time.

I know you are hurting and that I will never understand your perspective on things. That sentence just makes me go ..." well sometimes life just isn´t fair" Accept, release, let go...The pain of loosing a parent in so hard but I do believe we can keep them in our hearts and not being stuck in this " it´s not fair" forever. I am sure your mom / and dad wished you could move on and not have this pattern that does not do anything for you at all.IMO

[Dreamy01]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

No, I still have the feelings about my T though I'm starting to accept that it's about me. I was crying because I feel close to her (talking about my parents made me feel close to her even though it's not about her) so it hurts that she is so private about her H. I'm glad that you're doing so well with being back in therapy with T1 again!

I think accepting it is about you and not T is a massive step forward. I think it's really hard to let go of not getting what was needed in the past and accept you can't get most of those needs met from T or anyone else. I'm going through the same thing. It's not always linear either - I seem to go two steps forward and then one back. I really feel for you in where you're at. It's great you can tell T that therapy is about the relationship for you because this is something I struggle to do, although I'm sure my T knows.

As the others have said, life isn't fair. It just isn't. I try to remind myself of that when I feel down about the horrible things thrown at me, both past and present. It's not personal. You weren't picked out to lose your mother. It's just life happening. This doesn't mean brushing over your grief because that is important, but there does come a time when it's far healthier to let go of the longing for things to have gone differently and make the most of life regardless. Otherwise the danger is spending your life clinging to what wasn't, and that is sad. I need to do this as much as the next person. I know that I still want to be mothered in many ways, but the fact is, I won't and can't be. In therapy comes personal responsiblity to accept that eventually and move onward, with T's help. The best T in the world can't help you unless you make a decision to move forward. That is what I'm realising as well. It is so very hard. It is also important to be gentle with yourself and know it takes time but if you can see baby steps in what you've achieved, that can only be good.