[rainbow8]

This is about therapy because I wish I could have my session and not have to wait 2 more weeks!! I could use help from my DBT leader but I don't think she would return my call in time to help me.

I thought I was helping out with the kids, laundry, dishes but my d. says I'm not helping enough. I always feel triggered when I'm here because I feel like I'm unwanted and unappreciated. But it seems like my d. always feels I don't do anything. I see coming here as a sort of vacation and a time to enjoy my grandchildren. I don't have the energy I had when I was younger though I try my best. It's not good enough, though.

I don't want to get into details but I feel bad about this situation. I am supposed to do the shopping and cooking (but my d is a gourmet cook and I thought she doesn't want me to do it) but she didn't tell me that. She's overworked and overtired but her H helps a lot. My H doesn't feel well and sleeps a lot so he's no help except in buying things they don't want from thrift shops.

I just did many dishes (the dishwasher may be broken) and swept the floor. Last night I got 2 hrs. of sleep because of my allergies. I went with my daughters and the kids to a fun place for them. I didn't know I was supposed to let my d. stay home and I take my grandson.

I am always exhausted when we get back home even though I don't "help". It's not a good situation at all.

[sesame]

It's unfair for your daughter to put so much responsibility onto you. I could see if it was a situation like "Hey, H and I are going to ____ place, could you watch the kids for a few hours?" Basically, giving them a brief occasional reprieve, sure.

But putting it on you to wash the dishes, cook, and do laundry? You aren't her maid.

There isn't anything you can do at this point that won't upset her because she seems to expect you to go all out and take care of her, but perhaps it would be useful to purchase one of those small dry-erase boards, and make a list of things that she or her H need to do throughout the day. Don't do as many things for her, but guide her and her H in managing their time on their own.

I'll try to make a little example:

MONDAY
[time] - D - wash dishes
[time] - H - take out the trash
[time] - D - do laundry
[time] - H - make dinner
[time] - KIDS - put away toys
[time] - KIDS - take bath, get ready for bed

And maybe have them alternate chores on a daily/weekly basis? When you're there, maybe you could help her in getting the kids involved with chores, depending on how old they are? Also, a good idea might be to add in a separate time block, maybe an hour, for H to get his alone time, and another time block for D to get her alone time.

Another fun idea could be using chalkboard paint to make something similar!

[sesame]

Also, I found a few cute chore charts and ideas that might be useful for the kids and family!

http://pinchalittlesavealot.blogspot...ore-chart.html

[BonnieJean]

rainbow8, I can hear how upsetting and frustrating this situation is for you. It sounds like you're not communucating as you'd like with your daughter. Sounds like she is stressed out too. what advice do you think your t would give you? some times I think we've internalized them (our t) more than we realize and some times we can draw on that for strenghth and advice when they are not with us. I hope your efforts help improve the situation for the rest of your visit.

Family dynamics are difficult. We live in a phantasy that it should be all Brady bunch like. There's a lot of pain & resentment built up over the years and then acted out by all parties. No skills needed, just the ability to sit down & really talk about what everyone is really feeling.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I am always exhausted when we get back home even though I don't "help". It's not a good situation at all.

Maybe you could sit down with her and discuss what she wants you to do and what you are capable of doing. You might reach an agreement, and if not, at least it is out in the open.

Resentment is much worse when it is unspoken.

[WikidPissah]

2 more weeks? How long are you staying with your daughter? Having company for more than a few days is stressful. Can you an H move to a hotel to give your daughter a little breathing room?

Originally Posted by rainbow8

This is about therapy because I wish I could have my session and not have to wait 2 more weeks!! I could use help from my DBT leader but I don't think she would return my call in time to help me.

Is there anyway you can call or email your T and get some guidance?

I thought I was helping out with the kids, laundry, dishes but my d. says I'm not helping enough. I always feel triggered when I'm here because I feel like I'm unwanted and unappreciated. But it seems like my d. always feels I don't do anything. I see coming here as a sort of vacation and a time to enjoy my grandchildren. I don't have the energy I had when I was younger though I try my best. It's not good enough, though.

Does your daughter fully understand your limitations? Do you think it would be helpful if she did? As a daughter it has been hard for me to accept my mother's limitations. It is scary to see our parents become less capable as they age.

I don't want to get into details but I feel bad about this situation. I am supposed to do the shopping and cooking (but my d is a gourmet cook and I thought she doesn't want me to do it) but she didn't tell me that. She's overworked and overtired but her H helps a lot. My H doesn't feel well and sleeps a lot so he's no help except in buying things they don't want from thrift shops.

Sounds like she is wanting and expecting you to read her mind. Would it help if you both could find a way to express what you need from the other?

I just did many dishes (the dishwasher may be broken) and swept the floor. Last night I got 2 hrs. of sleep because of my allergies. I went with my daughters and the kids to a fun place for them. I didn't know I was supposed to let my d. stay home and I take my grandson.

Sounds once more like d wants you to mind read. Is is possible to have an open discussion? Maybe express that you want to help, but when you try to figure out what she wants and do not hit the mark, it is making you feel inadequate and defeated? Maybe express that you do have limits. She may be so exhausted that she can only see as far as her own needs.

I am always exhausted when we get back home even though I don't "help". It's not a good situation at all.

I am sorry you are having a hard time there. I hope you can find a way to enjoy the rest of your time there...

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by sesame

Also, I found a few cute chore charts and ideas that might be useful for the kids and family!

I like this one.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by sesame

It's unfair for your daughter to put so much responsibility onto you. I could see if it was a situation like "Hey, H and I are going to ____ place, could you watch the kids for a few hours?" Basically, giving them a brief occasional reprieve, sure.

But putting it on you to wash the dishes, cook, and do laundry? You aren't her maid.

There isn't anything you can do at this point that won't upset her because she seems to expect you to go all out and take care of her, but perhaps it would be useful to purchase one of those small dry-erase boards, and make a list of things that she or her H need to do throughout the day. Don't do as many things for her, but guide her and her H in managing their time on their own.

I'll try to make a little example:

MONDAY
[time] - D - wash dishes
[time] - H - take out the trash
[time] - D - do laundry
[time] - H - make dinner
[time] - KIDS - put away toys
[time] - KIDS - take bath, get ready for bed

And maybe have them alternate chores on a daily/weekly basis? When you're there, maybe you could help her in getting the kids involved with chores, depending on how old they are? Also, a good idea might be to add in a separate time block, maybe an hour, for H to get his alone time, and another time block for D to get her alone time.

Another fun idea could be using chalkboard paint to make something similar!

Thanks for all your ideas, sesame. I liked those chore buttons, but the list of chores for each day of the week is more than I do in my house in a year. Wipe down walls? What's that? My d. has tried charts for the kids but unless she gets after them and spends the time, they haven't worked. She also has their clothes in cubbies, not drawers, but they get spilled out onto the floor each day. The best option for me has been to try to ignore the mess. I hate that the girls don't brush their hair before school, and no one cares! If I tell my d. that she says she's doing the best she can! Their hair isn't a priority. The oldest, age 9, doesn't even care. I get upset about their hair but I'm not here so often, so I can't sweat the small stuff.

Originally Posted by BonnieJean

rainbow8, I can hear how upsetting and frustrating this situation is for you. It sounds like you're not communucating as you'd like with your daughter. Sounds like she is stressed out too. what advice do you think your t would give you? some times I think we've internalized them (our t) more than we realize and some times we can draw on that for strenghth and advice when they are not with us. I hope your efforts help improve the situation for the rest of your visit.

I'm happy to report that we patched things up, sort of. I said I was sorry and that I thought I WAS helping but I wasn't doing what was needed. So today my H and I did grocery shopping for 2 1/2 hrs. Only problem is that i self-rising flour by mistake and my H says I can not go back to the store to return it. I said I'd buy some regular flour at a closer store. She bakes yeast bread and it won't come out with that kind of flour. Anyway, I felt good about doing the shopping!

Originally Posted by earthmamma

Family dynamics are difficult. We live in a phantasy that it should be all Brady bunch like. There's a lot of pain & resentment built up over the years and then acted out by all parties. No skills needed, just the ability to sit down & really talk about what everyone is really feeling.

Yes, we did a little of that today. You're right.

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Maybe you could sit down with her and discuss what she wants you to do and what you are capable of doing. You might reach an agreement, and if not, at least it is out in the open.

Resentment is much worse when it is unspoken.

I agree 100% with this. Thanks.

Originally Posted by WikidPissah

2 more weeks? How long are you staying with your daughter? Having company for more than a few days is stressful. Can you an H move to a hotel to give your daughter a little breathing room?

I see T in 2 weeks but we are only staying one more week, I think. Staying in a hotel wouldn't be helpful to my d and for other reasons it wouldn't work out, but in most cases, that would be a good option. Thank you.

Originally Posted by Psychicbaby323

I am sorry you are having a hard time there. I hope you can find a way to enjoy the rest of your time there...

Thanks! I DO enjoy the grandkids and being here. I'm being mindful of that. When we go home, I'll miss them so much!

[Sannah]

Rainbow, is this the first time that you have focused on the relationship that you have with your daughter? If so, I'm really proud of you! I see this as you shifting your focus from the fantasy land of your relationship with your T to your relationships IRL. Excellent work!

Your daughter doesn't sound organized. Some people are just like this naturally. Yeah, when life without visitors is busy and stressful enough, having company does push it over the edge and you really do need help from close relatives who come to visit. I remember being in this exact position.

I think that if you keep up communication that it will work out. I would ask her what she needs help with every day. Relatives should be helpful IMO.

Does the chaos of her household make you tired?

Are you afraid to make a mistake (like the flour)?

Rainbow...You write that you have a d. who is overworked and overtired.

"Overtired" is sort of something you would say about a child.

Maybe she just "needs" her mum right now, even as an adult. People has a tendency to get a bit " oh well" when overworked and overtired.

I acknowledge that you want a vacation...it´s just that your daughter seems to be a bit stressed out and in need of some "caretaking". Usually ( healthy ) parents will provide this in childhood and not try to attend their own needs, when they have a overtired child. ( Even later on in the adult relationship ) I guess you know that already.


A "LBC to Rainbow post" - with a hug anyways as usual

[rainbow8]

Can't respond more now. I skinned 6 chicken packages, made orzo, and apple slice!! While listening to music while my d. was at work. She works part-time. Now I'm helping make meatballs! Got to go. Yeah, there's a good reason she's tired. They would be angry for their "life" to be online, so no more said.

Sannah, I miss my T terribly, and sent her photos of my grandkids! It's good. I'm doing better, accepting "it is what it is" and so on.

Thanks, lonely.

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by lonelybychoice

Maybe she just "needs" her mum right now, even as an adult.

I acknowledge that you want a vacation...it´s just that your daughter seems to be a bit stressed out and in need of some "caretaking".

I think lonely's comments here are very insightful. Maybe what your daughter wants and needs (in addition to help with tangible things like meal preparation) is some matneral nurturing... the kind of "everything's going to be okay," "i'm here for you," "i love you," "i'm proud of you," "hugs and kisses" type stuff that so many of us often say we never received as children and wish our T's could provide for us. As many of us know from experience, those needs don't go away when we're adults.

It sounds like things with your daughter have already improved a lot because you've opened up a channel of communication with her and you've asked her what you can do to be helpful to her (and then done it!). That's great! But maybe something she doesn't know (or is shy) to ask for is some additonal nurturing and comforting.

I don't have a mom but I do have a dad, and he is visiting me right now. Yes, I could always use help with tangible things (I'm certainly overworked and overtired!!!) but what means much more to me than who hung the painting on the wall or who walked the dog is the fact that he LISTENS to me, says he is PROUD of me, and spends time just BEING with me. Those are the things that I remember after he leaves.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by lonelybychoice

I acknowledge that you want a vacation...

This may be the key.
Does D know that you came for a vacation?
Did she invite you for a vacation?

If you think you are a guest on holiday and she sees you as an extra resource, then you will get exactly the consequences you describe.

[Sannah]

You are with your daughter and grandchildren and you are missing your T?

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by scorpiosis37

I think lonely's comments here are very insightful. Maybe what your daughter wants and needs (in addition to help with tangible things like meal preparation) is some matneral nurturing... the kind of "everything's going to be okay," "i'm here for you," "i love you," "i'm proud of you," "hugs and kisses" type stuff that so many of us often say we never received as children and wish our T's could provide for us. As many of us know from experience, those needs don't go away when we're adults.
She isn't so receptive to my hugs. I said "I love you" a few times but the thing is we say that to each other on the phone all the time, but not in person. I don't feel like she WANTS me to be here for her; her H is the one she turns to. I know she only has one mother--me. I'm not sure what to do. She appreciates compliments on her cooking so I try to do that. It's awkward for ME to say things like "I'm proud of you". I do remember saying that while she was growing up though. I need to do it more of it now because she has low self esteem. I guess it's hard for me because I myself didn't get enough of it! I tell the grandkids I love them, and hug them whenever they let me, and I praise them a lot. Being a Mom is hard when they're already grown up and have families of their own. I'm not excusing myself, just saying it's hard.
It sounds like things with your daughter have already improved a lot because you've opened up a channel of communication with her and you've asked her what you can do to be helpful to her (and then done it!). That's great! But maybe something she doesn't know (or is shy) to ask for is some additonal nurturing and comforting. I agree but why does she turn away from my hugs? She doesn't like touching or something.

I don't have a mom but I do have a dad, and he is visiting me right now. Yes, I could always use help with tangible things (I'm certainly overworked and overtired!!!) but what means much more to me than who hung the painting on the wall or who walked the dog is the fact that he LISTENS to me, says he is PROUD of me, and spends time just BEING with me. Those are the things that I remember after he leaves.

Thank you, Scorpiosis. You always write such thoughtful responses to everyone.

Originally Posted by CantExplain

This may be the key.
Does D know that you came for a vacation?
Did she invite you for a vacation?

If you think you are a guest on holiday and she sees you as an extra resource, then you will get exactly the consequences you describe.

It's not really a vacation but it's supposed to be an enjoyable time. I realize now that I wasn't doing enough or the right things to help. It's happened before, and I always try my best. I'm trying harder now though.

Originally Posted by Sannah

You are with your daughter and grandchildren and you are missing your T?

Yes, and I'm not going to let you make me feel bad about that, either. My feelings for my family do not take the place of those for my T. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Thank you, Scorpiosis. You always write such thoughtful responses to everyone.

It's not really a vacation but it's supposed to be an enjoyable time. I realize now that I wasn't doing enough or the right things to help. It's happened before, and I always try my best. I'm trying harder now though.

Yes, and I'm not going to let you make me feel bad about that, either. My feelings for my family do not take the place of those for my T. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

Let me just say I am suffer from horrible transference at the moment myself so I am not writing this to be " oh well.." But I wonder what you mean by it being like " comparing apples and oranges"?

[rainbow8]

lonely, my former T used to tell my H that he is in a different "book" from her, and that he needn't be jealous of the way I feel about her. My T can't be all I want her to be, and I know that. It's transference. I want or wanted real people in my life to act like my T. They can't. She's too good to be true because she's my T, not my family. My family are real. They are my family. How can I compare them? I gave birth to my kids and raised them, with my H, to grow up, marry, and have kids of their own. How can I possibly compare them to my T? I love them! Yet I love my T too. She's in a different category.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Yes, and I'm not going to let you make me feel bad about that, either.

My point wasn't to make you feel bad, my point was to draw attention to it. My interpretation is that there isn't a relationship there and this is why you miss your T.

If your daughter doesn't respond warmly to your hugs this also says that the relationship needs work.

If you have meaningful relationships IRL you do not need a fantasy relationship with your T.

Rainbow, I need to disclose here. Everything that you are writing right now about your daughter and yourself, well, I've seen the same thing with me and my mom. I was shocked when I read this thread the first time.

My mom comes to visit and she is bored. Why? Because she doesn't have a relationship with me or her grandchildren. I'm not saying that you are bored, though. But I had the same discussions with my mom, that I am busy already in my life and I need her help when they come to visit and stay for a week or more. That I don't have the time or ability to take care of my house, children and her and my dad. After my children grew up then it was okay. When my mom hugs me I am not all the receptive either. I do it as a hello/goodbye thing but it has little meaning in it for me.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I feel like I'm unwanted and unappreciated.

Because your daughter is a little upset with you? And because there isn't a relationship there?

As you know, I've said that you remind me of my mother very much, so despite my resolve to stay out of your threads, I honestly thought it might be helpful for you to hear my perspective on this thread. I couldn't get the quote thing to work correctly so I'm cutting and pasting.

Rainbow, you said:
She isn't so receptive to my hugs. I said "I love you" a few times but the thing is we say that to each other on the phone all the time, but not in person. I don't feel like she WANTS me to be here for her; her H is the one she turns to. I know she only has one mother--me.

Okay, here's is my take on this, from my perspective with my mother. I DID NOT and DO NOT rely on her for help. I turn to my husband to some extent, to my mother in law and to my friends. It's not that I don't WANT her to "be there" for me; it's that she never was so I have no reasonable expectation that she will be and therefore it makes no sense to turn to her. As for not saying I love you in person, why not? Because it's awkward? I cannot address that without a lot of anger, so maybe I'll skip this part.

I'm not sure what to do. She appreciates compliments on her cooking so I try to do that. It's awkward for ME to say things like "I'm proud of you". I do remember saying that while she was growing up though. I need to do it more of it now because she has low self esteem. I guess it's hard for me because I myself didn't get enough of it! I tell the grandkids I love them, and hug them whenever they let me, and I praise them a lot. Being a Mom is hard when they're already grown up and have families of their own. I'm not excusing myself, just saying it's hard.

I am sorry that it's awkward for you to tell her you're proud of her, and that you feel you don't get enough of it yourself. On the other hand, it does not take a genius to have a very good guess as to why your daughter has low self esteem and has a hard time accepting help or affection from you given this information. You are STILL thinking mostly of yourself in this scenario and even though you claim you are not excusing yourself, that IS what you are trying to do. Parenting is hard. It just is. It involves putting your own needs behind your child's. Giving them what you didn't get as a child.

I agree but why does she turn away from my hugs? She doesn't like touching or something.

All affection in my family came on my mother's terms. Hugging happened when SHE felt like it. Touching happened when SHE was in the mood. When you put your needs first, it comes through loud and clear to the child. I am an adult now and I do not have to hug my mother whenever she feels like it anymore, so I don't.

I hope this didn't come off too angry. I am trying to help you see this situation from your daughter's perspective. I have a lot of guesses as to how your daughter feels, but don't want to speak for her. She may or may not be ready to tell you how she really feels. I know I probably wouldn't tell my own mother most of the information that I have given you because it wouldn't matter. She cannot even see that she needs to change. You, at least, at trying to change and I respect that.

[SallyBrown]

It's awkward for ME to say things like "I'm proud of you". I do remember saying that while she was growing up though. I need to do it more of it now because she has low self esteem. I guess it's hard for me because I myself didn't get enough of it! I tell the grandkids I love them, and hug them whenever they let me, and I praise them a lot. Being a Mom is hard when they're already grown up and have families of their own. I'm not excusing myself, just saying it's hard.

Rainbow, I'm kind of surprised that it's "awkward" for you to tell your daughter you love her and are proud of her. My mom is 60 and she still tells me she's proud of me. What makes it awkward?

I already have low self-esteem; it would definitely be lower if I sensed that my mom didn't want to tell me she was proud of me. In fact part of the reason my self-esteem is awful is that when I was a kid, I could tell she held back from saying she was proud at times, in hopes of not inflating my ego, with the goal of making me more self-motivated. This just ended up causing problems. I know it's not the same situation here, but when we need something from our parents and they hold back because of their own stuff, it's so damaging.

I also have a hard time understanding your saying you didn't get enough of it and that makes it hard, when at the same time you said you told your daughter this when she was a child. I'll admit I am not a parent, but isn't the whole point of being a parent to give your kids what you didn't have, through adulthood? I tried to do that with my little brothers... in fact I would praise them and tell them I was proud of them whenever I had those feelings because I wished my parents had done that for me. They have much more healthy self-esteem than I do.

I agree but why does she turn away from my hugs? She doesn't like touching or something.

Please, please do not try to explain away your daughter's turning away from your hugs. I stopped hugging my parents around 8 or 9, and my mom just assumed it was as simple as my "not liking it".

It is not that simple. For me, it was that I felt so alone and withdrawn that it seemed that when I hugged people, I was expressing love and feeling an intimate connection that they weren't feeling. So it felt like an exposure of my feelings followed by a rejection. I don't know what it is for your daughter, but don't try to excuse it without actually finding out from her why it is.

ETA: It also occurs to me that this holding back from your daughter because she isn't a child anymore (I'm talking about the telling her you're proud and that you love her) is the same thing that frustrates you at T; this whole thing of needs from your child self. Is there any way you can use this to relate to your daughter better?

[autotelica]

It's not rainbow's job to find out why her daughter doesn't like hugs, though. Some people don't like to be touched, and furthermore, they don't like to be interrogated about WHY they don't like to be touched. Maybe her daughter has problems showing affection with rainbow, or it could be some other reason. It no doubt hurts rainbow that there is this block, but she's probably never going to know what's going on there unless she drags her daughter to therapy with her. And even then, the truth won't necessarily come out.

There's a lot that rainbow can actively do to improve her relationship with her daughter. But I don't think she should focus so much on the hugs. That's a variable that she may or may not have control over. But saying she's proud of her daughter and demonstrating this through actions are fully in her domain, and almost certainly will have a positive effect.

[SallyBrown]

Originally Posted by autotelica

It's not rainbow's job to find out why her daughter doesn't like hugs, though. Some people don't like to be touched, and furthermore, they don't like to be interrogated about WHY they don't like to be touched. Maybe her daughter has problems showing affection with rainbow, or it could be some other reason. It no doubt hurts rainbow that there is this block, but she's probably never going to know what's going on there unless she drags her daughter to therapy with her. And even then, the truth won't necessarily come out.

There's a lot that rainbow can actively do to improve her relationship with her daughter. But I don't think she should focus so much on the hugs. That's a variable that she may or may not have control over. But saying she's proud of her daughter and demonstrating this through actions are fully in her domain, and almost certainly will have a positive effect.

My mom doesn't have to drag me to therapy to find out why I don't like hugs. It may be the case that Rainbow's daughter doesn't want to talk about it, but no one's going to know that until somebody asks.