I would like some advice about asking T to contact old T

My work with my current therapist has been spotty at best. A few ups, but largely, well, not much.

Of course that could be because I have absolutely no idea what I hope to get out of it - and this guy is all about "What do you want to get out of it".

I have moved to a rather rural, altogether backward, section of the country and I have learned that my options for therapy are significantly limited.

I'm not saying it's this guy or nothing, but, well, it might be.

So. Do you think it is appropriate for me to ask him to contact my old therapist about how he treated me?

If you were a therapist how you feel about having a client say that to you?

I don't want to alienate him for sure. He's a good, earnest, human being.

If the consensus here is "do it", then how should I phrase it?

Thanks in advance PC folks!

Perhaps phrase it in a question to him ... Ask him if he thinks it might be beneficial to the both of you if he contacts your other therapist about their treatment approach and your responses and progress pertaining thereto ... It might be the new guy is struggling for what to do too, and this could help you both.

Elliemay... did you understand your goals and treatment plan with your old T? or like me did you just show up and it happened? I'm asking this because maybe you have another option. Maybe you could contact your old T and find out what his approach was to treating you...was it psychodynamic therapy or CBT or etc.? What did he think you accomplished as goals? and what did he think you still needed to work on?

Because I think as a professional accountant... I do not need to have another accountant tell me how to be an accountant... but I would need my client to be able to tell me what services they want provided? tax returns, audit of financial statements, etc...

So maybe if would go over better, if you had an understanding of what worked for you in the past...type of therapy...goals, etc. than you could tell new T yourself what you need.

But if none of that applies maybe you need to ask yourself if you are just wanting this T to be old T.... it will be a new relationship ...he won't be able to replicate that.

All I know is that I am where I am with this and i'm finding it a very hard place to be.

I'm trying to think of ways to help myself in this situation.

Obviously, my new therapist is very much his own person. I respect that. Would I like for him to be my old therapist - oh heck yeah!

Not going to happen.

There is such a jumbled mess of crap in my head, I'm having a very hard time even beginning to articulate what I want from this guy. So telling him the therapeutic equivalent of "I want my taxes done" may be out of the picture for awhile at least.

I suspect my old therapist knew what I wanted. Looking back, I really wish he had told me.

It's just a confusing place I find myself inhabiting. I'm trying to find a way out.

It's not easy.

Elliemay, can you contact your old T and ask?

Absolutely you should do it. I think, if I'm understanding correctly, that this conversation is a version of "this therapy isn't working out for me" and that your desire to have him contact your old T is your perception of how to fix the problem.

I've had a variation of this conversation more than once with all of my T's, and IME I think they relish it, and are not alienated by it. I think they see it as you taking the reins of your own therapy and being willing to put it out there with the feedback that you need something different from them. It is progress even to be politely confrontative about this issue, but I have approached it sloppily as well as probably with some amount of sophistication, and all of them have responded warmly and enthusiastically to the feedback that they weren't giving me what I needed right then. It has always been a turning point in therapy.

You could say "I want you to contact and talk to my old T about how you could be a better therapist to me", but I'm not sure that's really the issue. The issue is that you haven't yet built the kind of relationship with him where you can tell him what you need from him-- I think, anyway. I doubt it would be helpful for your therapy for him to talk to your old T, and even asking the question this way seems to be to be a backhanded way of getting someone else (your old T) to be responsible for making your current therapy work. I think you are the one responsible for making your therapy work.

So why not say, I'm not getting what I want out of this therapy? Maybe he'd ask you for ideas for what you want or how the two of you can change things. You could say, talk to my old T, I don't think that's an illegitimate suggestion or recommendation, and you could have a conversation about that.

I have been repeatedly surprised by how much my current T (and my last therapy was 15 years ago, so my memory is not as good for it) really seems to relish the feedback that I give him about what is working for me, and it's about 80% negative. So I don't think you have to be worried that your T is somehow not capable of hearing this or dealing with it.

I also think that this is kind of an intimate relationship thing, too. I have said to my H, this (whatever he's doing related to a specific thing) is not working for me. We have to do something different. Now "be different" is not a terribly useful thing to say to someone, but it at least starts the conversation and it can lead to the other person understanding HOW to be different in a concrete way.

So I think your issue here is a very important and central one, that is not only relevant for therapy but for intimate relationships more generally.

What if you tell current T, "I'm so frustrated by your asking me what I want out of this therapy that I want to call old T and ask him how we did things. I'm afraid of alienating you but I don't how to make this therapy more effective for me." At least, that's how I read your post.

You're stuck, and you want to go to the person who knew how to unstick you. Makes perfect sense to me--but the relationship that's there for you right now is this guy (or another local T, if one can be found, if you decide to ditch this T). Maybe bringing your questions and doubts can help build the relationship with this T.

I say this because I've only had one T, but we got a lot of good "stuff" out of my frustration with him for asking me to set goals. That request of his triggered a lot of worries and feelings in me that I had to express before I could actually see my goals.

elliemay, you've gotten some pretty good advice here, I think. I'll take a different approach. Is it correct that you quit therapy with your former T because you moved away? Maybe doing phone therapy (is that an option?) with him would be better than trying to get him to be like your current T. I think maybe you're going to be disappointed with your current T no matter what, but if you have no other options, I don't see anything wrong with asking your current T to contact your former one.

I know phone therapy isn't for everyone, and I never did it, but one of my Ts suggested it as a real solution, and said it would be the same as seeing her. I disagreed with that, but she was a good T, so I believe it could have worked.

here where I live and work in NY, which is in the USA it is pretty standard for treatment providers to have their clients who have seen other treatment providers sign a release of information form so that the new treatment provider can get a copy of the clients file with the x treatment provider. the files tell things like what issues /goals were worked on/ clients diagnosis/ and how, what that x treatment provider did things with the client. here we do this as part of the intake. none of our clients have ever had to "ask" us to do it. if for example the client doesnt disclose they have seen other treatment providers during intake but do mention a reference to a past treatment provider we pull out the release form saying something like Im glad you told me about what you and your x therapist did, before I forget lets take a minute to fill out a release form so that we can get your files from them. its not mandatory that you fill out this paper but its in your best interest that we have your past files. this way we know what works best for you, what things you have already worked on, and what treatment options have already been tried so we dont end up repeating those things unless you found them helpful to you.

my suggestion if you would like your present therapist to talk with your past therapist or get your past files just be honest and straight forwards that you think obtaining your past records and your treatment provider talking with the past therapist would be helpful and ask for the release of information form so that they can do that for you.

mind you sometimes this kind of thing doesnt turn out how the client imagines it will. example one time I thought it would be helpful for my therapist to contact a past therapist because we were at odds on how to best do something. I thought this x therapist will change how the present therapist saw the situation and do things my way. it backfired.

my therapist told me though she understands now how the x therapist did things with me and why, not all therapists do things the same way or have the same therapy approach the same with therapy agencies. they all have their own ways and rules with how to work with their clients. Therapists also have to make their own decisions about whats the best way to work with their clients. in this situation my therapist felt I had grown past needing a therapist who would work the way the past therapist had worked with me. I was emotionally more stable, and was beyond the stage of what I needed with the past therapist. I may feel like I need things to be the same with her as it was with the past therapist because change is hard for some people. that it doesnt matter how many therapists I see in this healing path I need to travel, every one of the therapists are going to have to make their own decisions on whats best for me and how to best approach working with me.

then we talked about the problem I had hoped the x therapist would fix by telling the new therapist how to work with me on it. then the therapist told me I could either work with her on this issue and other future issues or we could look for another therapist. but there will never be a therapist or therapy session like I had in the ex therapist and the sessions I had with that therapist because therapists are not the same just like Im not the same as my friends or enemies. I decided to open my mind and try things the way the new therapist wanted me to and discovered though it wasnt the same as working with the past therapist it was actually better because I was beyond needing those things I got from how the past therapist worked with me. from then on i never compared the present therapists to the x's and didnt expect each new therapist to do things the same way as the last one,

change is hard but thats what therapy is all about making changes in how we think, react and do things and that changes/solves our problems.

I haven't really thought about that approach. Honestly, I don't know if I could talk to him or not.

I know it may sound crazy, but I think it might hurt a lot to talk to him again.

I can't invite that kind of hurt back into my life.

Thanks Rainbow. I would really like to make things work in my current situation. I live here now.

I can't continue to reach back to the way things were on a regular basis.

My old therapist and I tapered off using phone sessions and they were brutal. Just brutal.

This is my home now. I want to be stable and happy(ish) here.

this I so totally can relate to.

You are absolutely positively correct. I am scared to death to tell this guy what I need from him. Don't ask me why, but I am. I'm even scared to tell him that I don't know what I need from him.

What in heaven's name is wrong with me? Why can't I handle this better?

I feel like a burden to this guy already. I want to run away.

I'm in a rather nasty little spot here, where I feel damned if I do and damned if I don't.

And it's compounded by the fact that, in these predicaments before, I had someone that I could trust to help me through it.

I'm trying to cut myself a little slack here - it took a long time to build that trust. It was an amazing thing, but it's serving as a very sharp contrast to where I am now.

ETA: I would like to see him for an emergency appointment, but I'm even afraid to call him.

Hi Elliemay,
It is is not working for you as you have said in other threads too. I think you and your therapist should be doing what is right for you and if you think that contacting your old T is in your best interests then do it. Therapy is one of the very rare places were you can say anything to T and they should be ok with it. If he is a good therapist he is supposed to do what is best for his client and not get offended.

Aw, you're handling it just fine. You're working through it. You're right, cut yourself some slack--this anxiety and frustration will take you somewhere, even though it might be a bumpy ride getting there.

Well, I called him and left a message. I'm going to try to go in for a session. He may not have anything, or he may not even check the messages I don't know. We'll see.

I had to try to do something positive to make myself feel a little better. I'm very anxious and sad right now.

Maybe he'll respond. I hope so.

I hope it works out for you ellie. I can understand the difference in approaches. The trauma lady I have been seeing is quite different, and I get a bit irritated with her. I also am in a small community, apart from the "real world" and t's are far and few and weirder more than normal.

Hate that stuck feeling. I think this is very telling. Could it be that you're feeling stuck with current T not so much because of what's happening or not in the room, but because of what needs to happen with former T?

I could easily see feeling aimless and shaken by being asked to set goals with a new T, if I were still carrying unfinished business with former T. It might even feel weirdly disloyal deep down.

Is this familiar? Did you feel like this when you started with your old T?

I'm just wondering, because after years of seeing someone we build a relationship and we just KNOW each other and there is this comfort in knowing that someone knows us so well that they just "GET IT" most of the time.

But it doesn't start that way. At least it didn't for me and my T.

So maybe this is the beginning. I had to work through a lot of stuff with my T before the comfort and the knowing came.

Just a thought.

It must be incredibly hard to start over.

The fear is very familiar. The burden, I don't know. I was so very very lost at the beginning of my previous therapy. I had no idea how I felt - except I hated my therapist and was rather bratty (understatement).

Right now though, something has me really freaked out and it's uncomfortable. I'm confused and feel a little paralyzed - as in that little child paralyzed feeling.

So, consequences be damned, I called him. Maybe he'll see me. Maybe ii'll help. I have my doubts. He's really busy.

Starting over is not easy.

Thanks all for your support.

Just remember to also be extra patient, gentle and kind with yourself right now.

Oh!, and don't underestimate the impact that major life stressors (positive or negative) can have on our delicate balances.

I imagine that if you've recently moved you've got a lot on your plate - new surroundings, new job, getting settled into both, finding new healthcare providers, etc.

Needless to say that's a lot to navigate and digest simultaneously.

Be honest with your new t. Honesty never hurt anyone; well maybe, but honest is policy.

Sadly, the business with my previous therapist has to be finished, except for the grieving I think.

And the comparisons, the endless, endless comparisons.

Which I think emanates from the grieving as well.

As I said, and actually do believe, this current guy is a good person. Perhaps even quite skilled in some ways. He just very very different.

I really wish I could get mad at him - this new guy, but I think those days are over. The anger left, and allowed the fear to surface.

Thanks. Sometimes I need to be reminded that I am not superman.

I hope I have a good day today. I hope you do to.

I guess I wasn't thinking so much of finishing former T business with former T, but rather with new T. Is there some reason you can't get close to the grieving with him? I do think they've all been down this road before and don't take it personally. I understand what the comparisons in your head may be like--almost like a music that covers everything happening in the room. Maybe it would help to tune into that rather than try to push it away?