[Anne2.0]

Trigger warning for discussion of CSA and relationships, also some discussion about genetic testing and cancer.

http://www.salon.com/2013/02/15/my_deep_dark_secret/

There is no explicit stuff regarding the CSA in this article, btw, just general references to the impact on the author's social & romantic life. I found this article deeply moving this morning. In part, the author takes us on a journey that she's still in the middle somewhere of, from avoiding romantic and to some extent all close relationships to finding a partner and having a family. It's complicated for her by her mother's death from cancer and the possibility that she might have inherited a cancer gene.

I relate to the relationship avoiding piece of this, from a historical perspective. Even though I've now been married mostly happily for a long time, I spent many years especially early in my therapy not really connecting with people or being ashamed of disclosing my past.

And I relate to the way that medical testing/intervention can mess with your survivor issues, and having to deal with the disembodied way that medicine treats certain procedures or even having to discuss body parts with physicians can just be really difficult.

But I burst into tears when she described the development of a relationship that seemed to be going well, and then she got brave and told him about her past. He does not react well. He's honest, and I think nobody can be blamed for the way that they feel. He said, though, and I hope I"m not unnecessarily "spoiling" it for anyone-- some space here just in case you want to stop reading




"I'm not up for being the partner of a survivor." He breaks up with her by saying this in an email.

I think, what if my H is not?

He's known from the beginning, before we even started dating and thought we were just friends. He knows who, when, what, without any details. But he's not an idiot and he's probably figured out over the years what some of the specific incidents might have been.

But knowledge is only a piece of it. Just because he knows and he hasn't said I'm not up for it, doesn't mean that he is. And this is just where my head is today. I know it's probably a good topic for therapy. I am hoping maybe someone else has bumped up against this issue or been through it or otherwise might be able to talk about it.

Didn't read the article. I made a decision yrs ago that I did not wish to talk to my hubby about this. We have been married many yrs. he is a wonderful guy, but I don't think he would know what to do with that type information.

He knows something wasn't right because of my past alcoholism and breakdown. I decided therapy is my business. I go, I heal and my marriage co-exists alongside that.

[stopdog]

I think some difficulty arises from the broad definition of "survivor" and broad range of reactions from the people who had that experience. For myself, I don't consider myself a "survivor" and would never describe myself as such. I am not against anyone else using the term if they think it fits, I just don't believe it fits my personal experience. I rarely talk about my childhood experience with my partners. There are a couple of places it has come up and I do explain the situation so it does not become a bigger deal than it should be. But other than that, I find other people to over-react to the description I give, and I think that is more their over- active imagination than having anything to do with my personal experience.
I think breaking up with anyone by email to be the height of cowardice.

(((Anne))) recently my wife made the comment that she is now realizing just how messed up my childhood was and the effect it had on me. We have been together 13 years. She eluded to the fact that had she known from the beginning she may have made different choices. Truth is she has known from the beginning and back then it didn't effect me like it has lately. Marriage's are for better or for worse. As we change and grow , we will all have hills and valleys. Nobody remains the person they were at marriage until death. We are not stagnant creatures. I am sure if your H felt like he couldn't handle things, he would tell you. "Partner of a Survivor" , I didn't realize that required a special skill set.

[elliemay]

Bottom line? The ones I've told have bolted. The ones I haven't stayed until I got rid of them.

It what I've come to expect. I don't talk about it.

It makes me sad, but I just don't think most men know what to do with the information.

I think when a man doesn't know what to do, or gets confused, or can't fix a situation, they get upset.

They can't deal with their own upset AND mine at the same time.

Of course, some just don't want "damaged" goods. It's just not worth it to them. They just can't see that I'm a person.

Que sera sera non?

[Meonly76]

hmmm my ex and i ended via email, and although i had told him pretty much everything at the start, he now decided its a bigger deal than he could have anticipated and that if we continued 'our journey' i could get badly hurt or he could end up feeling trapped. But its ok as he wasnt disapearing he would be about if i needed to talk or ask questions.... blahhhhhh

[QuietCat]

Thanks for the article link. It pretty much describes me. It's comforting and also sad to know others are out there with the same feelings towards sex and intimacy that I have to struggle with.

I had to read that article in tiny pieces, but I really appreciate you posting it. I told my husband fairly early on about the physical abuse and the dissociative disorder. I was so completely in love with him that it was important to me that before the relationship went much further, that he knew what he was getting into. I did not tell him about the sexual abuse because I was convinced it was no big deal. I didn't get hurt much, and some of it I just refused to think of as abuse at all. Also, because it involved other females, I thought it had to relevance to my relationship with him. When I told him, he started to cry. I was honestly confused. Then I was deeply touched. He was crying FOR ME. I could not cry for me, but he was.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

. When I told him, he started to cry. I was honestly confused. Then I was deeply touched. He was crying FOR ME. I could not cry for me, but he was.

I am glad this touched you. But this is the sort of thing that just brings to mind how different all the experiences are for different people and how the lumping of it into an idea is where I think things can go amiss. I would have left anyone who cried for me. (I am not criticizing you or your H - I am happy it was a good thing for you). And I even know people would have been trying to be kind, sensitive, supportive or whatever. I would experience such a reaction as none of those things.

Well, I can admit to you, stopdog (everyone else stop reading, LOL), that although I was touched, I also thought he was a total pansy. The same with my T. He has teared up on several occasions, and I am always a little perplexed, irritated, and think to myself that he is a wussy boy. In another area of my brain, I am touched that both of these feel for me so much.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by stopdog

But other than that, I find other people to over-react to the description I give, and I think that is more their over- active imagination than having anything to do with my personal experience.

Even though I think of myself as a survivor, I have also had this experience. Maybe it's that people assume that any phrase that references sexual abuse means it must have been like whatever movie they recently saw on the Lifetime TV network. I don't watch much TV, but I stay away from that channel-- it seems like they have a morning, afternoon, and evening Abuse Movie.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by earthmamma

I made a decision yrs ago that I did not wish to talk to my hubby about this. We have been married many yrs. he is a wonderful guy, but I don't think he would know what to do with that type information.

A perfectly valid decision and way of approaching a marriage, just not something that would ever work for me. It's not that I think he has a "right" to know (no one does), but that it is part of who I am and it is also important to me that I was able to share it with him. I don't think I would have married someone who I did not think could handle it.

I have a question while we are on this subject. I have not mentioned to the marriage counselor my husband and I anything about the sexual abuse. I do not consider it relevant. I also did not mentioned the dissociation because I do not consider it relevant, especially now when it happens so rarely and almost never around my husband. My husband brought the dissociation up because apparently he thinks it is relevant and it affects me. The MC seemed frustrated at me because I didn't "disclose" this apparently vital information earlier.

So, I guess what I'm wondering is how relevant do you think being sexually abused is in a relationship? Especially if it does not affect your sex life.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by LolaCabanna

She eluded to the fact that had she known from the beginning she may have made different choices.
. . .

I am sure if your H felt like he couldn't handle things, he would tell you. "Partner of a Survivor" , I didn't realize that required a special skill set.

Hi Lola,

The first part of your comment would tick me off like nobody's business. It seems like a mean thing to say.

Even though this seems flatly inconsistent with what I said in my OP, I am not worried that he feels like this now. And I really did the biggest part of my most dysfunctional healing work before I even met him. I would say that the quantitative aspects of the effects of the CSA on me and our life together have been really quite mild. I have felt lately, in the 6 months since a surgery that messed with my s*xual functioning, more symptomatic and triggery and I think that is where my anxiety is now. But I realize writing this that my ability to be as free & open in bed as I used to be, my issues around that, are probably at the center of why this is pushing my buttons.

But being the partner of a survivor-- which I have done in a previous relationship. I think there is a piece of what you're saying, the "so what? everybody has their issues that impact their partner" that is absolutely true. Being supportive to someone dealing with anything is kind of the same no matter what.

I also see it as a valid thing, too. Some people wouldn't marry someone who had terminal cancer, or a history of substance abuse, or was in a wheelchair, or whatever, because they don't think they are up for it. I sort of get that guy in the article, even though I think he's still a tool.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

I also thought he was a total pansy. The same with my T. He has teared up on several occasions, and I am always a little perplexed, irritated, and think to myself that he is a wussy boy. In another area of my brain, I am touched that both of these feel for me so much.

Sorry, I read it anyway

I think that says alot about your H and his compassion for you, and for his ability to be emotionally responsive in general. I also think that someone can be compassionate and not tear up, so I hear what stopdog is saying about how this would irritate her.

I have a lot of difficulty in T when he expresses compassion or sympathy. I do not react well and he pretty much shuts down his reaction right away. This I like. However, I'd like it if I could be more accepting of these kinds of responses, from anyone. I want to be more able to drink in what people offer me, even if most of me wants to punch them in the face.

I think that I associate a compassionate or emotional response with someone thinking that I'm weak, hence the violent impulse.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

I have a question while we are on this subject. I have not mentioned to the marriage counselor my husband and I anything about the sexual abuse. I do not consider it relevant. I also did not mentioned the dissociation because I do not consider it relevant, especially now when it happens so rarely and almost never around my husband. My husband brought the dissociation up because apparently he thinks it is relevant and it affects me. The MC seemed frustrated at me because I didn't "disclose" this apparently vital information earlier.

So, I guess what I'm wondering is how relevant do you think being sexually abused is in a relationship? Especially if it does not affect your sex life.

I think this is it depends upon any number of factors. I don't consider it relevant particularly to me except to perhaps put into context some of the seemingly odd way I think or look at or feel about certain things.
For example, when I was a pd, I had no trouble with the accused child molesters as clients. I could represent them and have no different reaction to them than other clients. I had colleagues who did - not because they had the experience necessarily, but because they had children and went bat sh it thinking about their kids no matter what the underlying facts were - the mere thought sent them crazy. Probably my view of my experience kept me from reacting that strongly to it. I got teased about it (good natured generally, but it did baffle some).

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

Sorry, I read it anyway

I think that says alot about your H and his compassion for you, and for his ability to be emotionally responsive in general. I also think that someone can be compassionate and not tear up, so I hear what stopdog is saying about how this would irritate her.

I have a lot of difficulty in T when he expresses compassion or sympathy. I do not react well and he pretty much shuts down his reaction right away. This I like. However, I'd like it if I could be more accepting of these kinds of responses, from anyone. I want to be more able to drink in what people offer me, even if most of me wants to punch them in the face.

I think that I associate a compassionate or emotional response with someone thinking that I'm weak, hence the violent impulse.

YES!! That is huge for me. I don't need his ****ing pity.

[unaluna]

In defense of the man in the article, one might note that he is a clinical social worker. I've never dated a fellow computer programmer - it would just be too weird. For me. So maybe part of it is, not wanting to take his work home with him, more than anything really personal? I refused to have a computer at home until I was no longer working. I'm not saying a person is like a machine. I am saying, you need a break from your job.

[stopdog]

I don't consider him wrong for his feelings about it, I do condemn him for informing her of it in email.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I think that I associate a compassionate or emotional response with someone thinking that I'm weak, hence the violent impulse.

It's good to know that some people do not want to receive a compassionate response from another person. I can understand that if the reaction from the other person seems fake or insincere. But you're saying that even if that person has some true sensitivity to your pain, you still have a violent impulse?

Your preference, then, is that a feeling response not show up in others? You'd rather a non-response or a clinical response or an uncaring response? I believe the best relationships are those in which people can support each other emotionally. But, of course, I'm only speaking for myself. I see that for others, that does not describe the best kind of relationship. Interesting.

Sorry to learn that the question of your r/s with husband is popping up for you now.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I don't consider him wrong for his feelings about it, I do condemn him for informing her of it in email.

Idk, what are the breakup rules according to Seinfeld? I think they required a face to face breakup if there had been carnal knowledge. Maybe he felt sorely used, was angry, felt she was looking for free therapy. Maybe it wasn't the first time he'd been treated this way. We only have her side of the story. Sorry I'm being such a butt about this.

[WePow]

I share some things about the past trauma with my S/O. But other things I can't share. In fact, I almost wish I would not have even shared them with my T looking back on that. But I had to at the time. I think people are impacted by what we tell them. They see us in a different light. I don't think anyone does this intentionally, but it still happens.
I think it is a very difficult choice to bring in anyone else on such personal things.

[QuietCat]

Originally Posted by WePow

I think people are impacted by what we tell them. They see us in a different light. I don't think anyone does this intentionally, but it still happens.
I think it is a very difficult choice to bring in anyone else on such personal things.

Even as a child I understood this, that people changed their view of you when they learned of such things. This was the main thing that kept me from telling anyone about the CSA I had experienced. I still to this day don't feel that what I went through was as huge of a deal as it apparently seems to be to the few people who know. T in particular harps on it a bit more than necessary in my opinion. When I first told him about it and he had some reactions of concern and sympathy, I did feel confused that he was reacting like that. I felt like, "Whats the big deal here? Chill."

I really blame a lot of my fear of intimacy on my mother and her extreme promiscuity with men when I was growing up, which she made no effort to shield me from in any way.

I think if I did meet a man I felt love for and that the relationship had potential, I would have to tell him something about my past though. Just for the fact that I would need him to have some amount of patience with me and he would need to know why.

[elliemay]

My previous therapist and my current therapist both absolutely insist that men can understand about a history of abuse etc...

I have not found this to be the case at all and I have a much larger sample size of dating men than either of them (they are both men).

Honestly, I just think they need to get out more.

[feralkittymom]

I haven't read the article yet, and I don't know for sure if I will. I think I get the gist of it from comments here.

I think now, if I felt I had a choice, I wouldn't reveal anything to a potential partner. My last serious relationship was just beginning as I was dealing with all of this in therapy. There was no way I could not tell him--not details, just the fact of abuse--as the relationship was just becoming sexual. And I was feeling tremendous anxiety and dissociation. I knew if I engaged sexually in that state, I would experience it as perpetuating abuse. I couldn't do that. In some ways, I think knowing frightened and overwhelmed him. I think from his words that he felt cast into the role of an abuser, though I didn't believe that nor wanted him to feel that way.

But I also believe that the knowledge aroused him. And neither of us could deal with that. I still don't know how to deal with that potential. Has anyone faced this?

In many ways, I feel like not disclosing is simply avoiding the issue. But then I feel as if disclosing may creat an issue where one needn't exist. I think timing might be a factor--beginning of a relationship vs well into a relationship.

I've felt a deep relief at the expression of acceptance and empathy from others ( a very, very small group!) about my experience. Although there was much fear in the beginning, I think it's been important that I could feel such comfort from others, that I could get past the lingering shame that could have made me reject such empathy. Perhaps it's because the first person to show such empathy was my T, and I didn't experience it at all as pity, but rather as respectful.