I know this thread has probably been done before, so apologies in advance.
For me it is the most important aspect- if I felt I couldn't talk to them or get along with them I would close up and there would be no relationship.
I have gotten along with two of my ts and not my first one. She made me incredibly nervous and it felt like she was judging me and blaming me so needless to say there was lots of transference issues. I didn't get very far in therapy with her but one good thing came out of it was she saved my life when I first went to her.
I can see how relationships are so important now but I could never see that before.
How is your relationship with t?

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[Nightlight]

It's definitely the most important thing for me. I think the only problem with my current therapist is that I like her too much. Who would have thought that was possible? It's really hard for me to put into words, but I met my therapist during a dreadful time of my life and I liked her instantly. 'Like' isn't really a very good word for it, but I don't think there is a word or combination of words to describe my instant reaction to her. It was like I liked her instantly as much as I could like anyone. It was a bit like I knew her already and so her self-disclosure never really surprised me, because it was like I understood who she was already. It was a bit like she was someone I was always supposed to know. She mattered to me, right from the start. The fact that she's now tied into this boundary filled relationship (and I will lose her) and the fact that she doesn't feel the same way about me, and that on top of that she's the first person that has really seen me (and she still doesn't feel that way about me), makes the relationship into something that is as difficult for me as it is good.

[unaluna]

You asked this question on exactly the right day. I feel like i cant tolerate a good happy loving relationship. Thats not what i grew up with at all. Now when someone tries to include me (in their little reindeer games), i become suspicious and uncomfortable and i pull away. T texted me happy new years last night (he had asked permission at our prior session to do so), yet i felt humiliated - he's only doing it because he knows i'm alone - and discounted - it's my choice to be alone, why cant he honor that? I felt like i couldnt ask him not to text me - i did want to see what feelings it would bring up. And its not exactly my choice to be alone.

I don't want it to be important, but it is.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Yep, the relationship is the most important aspect for me too. I never ever would have thought that would be the case beforehand - I thought it would be more an intellectual thing that I could 'win' with a therapist I got on well with.

I suppose I had a vague idea before that if I clicked with the T, it would be enjoyable to be in the therapist's company, and lead to general warmth and all the rest, kind of like with teachers and lecturers I have admired and really liked and got on with. So while I always knew I'd have to have good rapport, I was not expecting to actually love my therapist the way I do, and how restorative that love is. I lurked on PC a while before joining and used to read about people loving their Ts and shudder and think 'Ew!' Now I have to eat my words

[A Red Panda]

I think it is the most useful part of therapy for me. I have trouble with trust and abandonment - and by just going there each week and talking to him, and him not looking frustrated or annoyed or disappointed or all those other things? That's helpful to me. I know it's his job to have a great poker face, but it's still useful. I've already had a lot of practice with him of saying the sorts of things that I am absolutely terrified to say - and I've now told him a few times about being upset with things that involve him... and twice have told him about things I was upset about WHILE I was upset.

Which are all unheard of for me.

So... learning to trust him is probably the best thing he can help do for me.

[stopdog]

I don't consider it important. I don't really think of paid for encounters with the woman as a relationship of any meaningful nature. I don't think of interactions with either of the ones I see as a relationship except in the most basic meaning of the word. And with the second one, the interaction is not rocky or unpleasant.

I'm actually not sure that learning to have a positive relationship with a therapist is necessarily a good thing (though perhaps it can be). It does not mean anything other than that the T is a good person doing their job well. It does not mean that equally good relationships are possible with people who are not obliged to create relationships as part of their job.

I do agree that it is hard to talk to a T when there is not a good sense of rapport and undestanding and acceptance.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by Mastodon

I'm actually not sure that learning to have a positive relationship with a therapist is necessarily a good thing (though perhaps it can be). It does not mean anything other than that the T is a good person doing their job well. It does not mean that equally good relationships are possible with people who are not obliged to create relationships as part of their job.

Whilst I see what you mean with this, I think a good therapist doesn't just indulge a client and blow smoke up their *** in order to make a contrived 'good' relationship. I think they challenge you, and pull you up on things, and talk straight, as well as all the empathy/acceptance/love and then this teaches us about what it means to have honest contact with others (good relationship skills) almost by osmosis. Which we then can apply in other relationships outside the therapy room.

No, I don't think a therapist should ever indulge the client, and I feel that my T is constantly challenging me. It's more that for me, nothing about the therapeutic relationship is really applicable anywhere else. But we're not really working on relationship skills, so I think it may be different for me in that way.

[Ambra]

I had a bad relationship with my first T. I wasn't attached (and it was great) but I wasn't going anywhere, I just hated her and didn't listen to a word cause she looked so annoyed and judgemental all the time.
I wish the relationship with my current T wasn't important. But unfortunately it is. Attachment brought me fear of abandonment. I dread her saying I'm ready to terminate (but she doesn't know what happened during the holidays, lol).
But I'm also grateful for this because it means she will let me go once I'm better - when I am ready, hopefully.
Lately I've been brainwashing myself with the thought that I'm just work to T and that she is likely not to even remember my name outside that room. I was hoping it would help to be less attached but I'm not sure it's the right way.

Whilst I agree that it is a therapists job to create relationships with clients, some therapies are more favourable of this than others and the same can be said for some therapists regardless of which theory they practise.
Some therapists cringe at the idea of a relationship with one of their clients. Like my first t, but the other two I have seen were very focused on the relationship and it has been the most healing part of therapy for me. So I guess it is important to check with your t to see how important it is for them too. I don't believe that a t or any person for that matter could fake a relationship just because they were getting paid. I couldn't anyway and it is my experience that most t's are genuine.

Originally Posted by hankster

You asked this question on exactly the right day. I feel like i cant tolerate a good happy loving relationship. Thats not what i grew up with at all. Now when someone tries to include me (in their little reindeer games), i become suspicious and uncomfortable and i pull away. T texted me happy new years last night (he had asked permission at our prior session to do so), yet i felt humiliated - he's only doing it because he knows i'm alone - and discounted - it's my choice to be alone, why cant he honor that? I felt like i couldnt ask him not to text me - i did want to see what feelings it would bring up. And its not exactly my choice to be alone.

Hankster, I hear ya!
Have you ever experienced a healthy relationship with anyone after having such a hard childhood?
I am still looking, I have one with my t but because I am so suspicious of everyone lately, I even question her motives at times and I hate it. I want to quit when I get suspicious too and pull away.
That was nice of your t but I can also see why you were not happy about it. Yes, you choose to be alone but that doesn't mean people can't still care about you right? Aghhh, I hate all these emotions around relationships.
Do you think you will be able to talk about it next time you see T?

[brillskep]

I agree that the relationship is the most important. It is essential. There have even been studies showing that the therapeutic relationship accounts for change even more than techniques, and that has been my experience as well.

Originally Posted by Ambra

I had a bad relationship with my first T. I wasn't attached (and it was great) but I wasn't going anywhere, I just hated her and didn't listen to a word cause she looked so annoyed and judgemental all the time.
I wish the relationship with my current T wasn't important. But unfortunately it is. Attachment brought me fear of abandonment. I dread her saying I'm ready to terminate (but she doesn't know what happened during the holidays, lol).
But I'm also grateful for this because it means she will let me go once I'm better - when I am ready, hopefully.
Lately I've been brainwashing myself with the thought that I'm just work to T and that she is likely not to even remember my name outside that room. I was hoping it would help to be less attached but I'm not sure it's the right way.

Its so hard but I really believe they do care, well most of them anyway.
I am sure a few that don't somehow slip through the system but why would you go into this profession if you didn't care because the training is so hard and intense. Sometimes being attached to your t can be your biggest learning in therapy because it highlights your behaviours in your relationships outside of the room and can be standing in front of a mirror. Sometimes we don't like what we see on the other side unfortunately but if we are there to start changing aspects of ourselves learning about the attachment and the relationship is the best way to start. Sounds like you are painfully aware of this already.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Mastodon

I'm actually not sure that learning to have a positive relationship with a therapist is necessarily a good thing (though perhaps it can be). It does not mean anything other than that the T is a good person doing their job well. It does not mean that equally good relationships are possible with people who are not obliged to create relationships as part of their job.

But this assumes that the client is able to have a good relationship - and for me, that is simply not true. The t's being without needs and wants and foibles puts all the focus on MY deficiencies in the intimacy department. It's like the Seinfeld episode where his girlfriend says she doesn't like pie - who doesn't like pie?! All of a sudden, t shows me pie - there is nothing to complain about the other person - so why am i having difficulty connecting?

I can hear stopdog saying: i dont WANT to connect to this person. That's not my point. That to me is like signing up for a personal trainer then saying you dont want to go to the gym or whatever. So lets assume you are MOTIVATED to connect. Then what are the FEEEEEELINGS that inhibit you? That make it feel bad or dangerous or even just uncomfortable? That's where i am, how i see it.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Mastodon

I'm actually not sure that learning to have a positive relationship with a therapist is necessarily a good thing (though perhaps it can be). It does not mean anything other than that the T is a good person doing their job well. It does not mean that equally good relationships are possible with people who are not obliged to create relationships as part of their job.

But this assumes that the client is able to have a good relationship - and for me, that is simply not true. The t's being without needs and wants and foibles puts all the focus on MY deficiencies in the intimacy department. It's like the Seinfeld episode where his girlfriend says she doesn't like pie - who doesn't like pie?! All of a sudden, t shows me pie - there is nothing to complain about the other person - so why am i having difficulty connecting?

I can hear stopdog saying: i dont WANT to connect to this person. That's not my point. That to me is like signing up for a personal trainer then saying you dont want to go to the gym or whatever. So lets assume you are MOTIVATED to connect. Then what are the FEEEEEELINGS that inhibit you? That make it feel bad or dangerous or even just uncomfortable? That's where i am, how i see it.

Monalisa - we posted at the same time! Thanks. Oh yeah, we'll be talking about it!

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by hankster

I can hear stopdog saying: i dont WANT to connect to this person. That's not my point. That to me is like signing up for a personal trainer then saying you dont want to go to the gym or whatever. So lets assume you are MOTIVATED to connect. Then what are the FEEEEEELINGS that inhibit you? That make it feel bad or dangerous or even just uncomfortable? That's where i am, how i see it.

I did not choose to go to therapy in order to connect with a therapist.
So in your example, I might sign up for a personal trainer to explain how gym equipment works, not to be personally trained or in order to go to the gym or to lose weight or whatever.

Originally Posted by Nightlight

It's definitely the most important thing for me. I think the only problem with my current therapist is that I like her too much. Who would have thought that was possible? It's really hard for me to put into words, but I met my therapist during a dreadful time of my life and I liked her instantly. 'Like' isn't really a very good word for it, but I don't think there is a word or combination of words to describe my instant reaction to her. It was like I liked her instantly as much as I could like anyone. It was a bit like I knew her already and so her self-disclosure never really surprised me, because it was like I understood who she was already. It was a bit like she was someone I was always supposed to know. She mattered to me, right from the start. The fact that she's now tied into this boundary filled relationship (and I will lose her) and the fact that she doesn't feel the same way about me, and that on top of that she's the first person that has really seen me (and she still doesn't feel that way about me), makes the relationship into something that is as difficult for me as it is good.

Connection is everything for a relationship and then boundaries get in the way too. I wonder if we had our t as a friend would the dynamics change and we wouldn't be so connected to them. It really is a strange unique relationship. My t drinks wine and smokes and when she tells me this it doesn't feel right because I had idolised her so much that I just didn't think of her as human but the reality is, they are. This sounds so painful too Nightlight. I can't describe the feelings towards my t either and they change hourly. They drove me mad at first. Does your t know how you feel about her?

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

Yep, the relationship is the most important aspect for me too. I never ever would have thought that would be the case beforehand - I thought it would be more an intellectual thing that I could 'win' with a therapist I got on well with.

I suppose I had a vague idea before that if I clicked with the T, it would be enjoyable to be in the therapist's company, and lead to general warmth and all the rest, kind of like with teachers and lecturers I have admired and really liked and got on with. So while I always knew I'd have to have good rapport, I was not expecting to actually love my therapist the way I do, and how restorative that love is. I lurked on PC a while before joining and used to read about people loving their Ts and shudder and think 'Ew!' Now I have to eat my words

Welcome lurker. I see you have this highly infectious therapy bug we all catch eventually.

Originally Posted by A Red Panda

I think it is the most useful part of therapy for me. I have trouble with trust and abandonment - and by just going there each week and talking to him, and him not looking frustrated or annoyed or disappointed or all those other things? That's helpful to me. I know it's his job to have a great poker face, but it's still useful. I've already had a lot of practice with him of saying the sorts of things that I am absolutely terrified to say - and I've now told him a few times about being upset with things that involve him... and twice have told him about things I was upset about WHILE I was upset.

Which are all unheard of for me.

So... learning to trust him is probably the best thing he can help do for me.

This is what I was trying to think of but couldn't find the words to express it. It is the practising things we wouldn't normally say to others and have them not judge us, this is so healing. Sometimes the poker face annoys me, first t would wear it no matter what I said and after a while she became none human to me and more of a robot t but to some it is important they don't react to what we are saying.

[wotchermuggle]

It's so important for me. The relationship has been so healing for me.

Originally Posted by stopdog

I did not choose to go to therapy in order to connect with a therapist.
So in your example, I might sign up for a personal trainer to explain how gym equipment works, not to be personally trained or in order to go to the gym or to lose weight or whatever.

I can see where Stopdog is coming from. Excuse me if I am speaking for you or misinterpreting this- if so correct me. But I think she views therapy as a paid for service and in some way it is, it is whatever you want it to be because you are paying for it. She see's t as a professional like a doctor or dentist with whom there is no relationship- just a paid for service, a job and that's ok too as we all have different needs and wants.

I'm sorry, hankster, I can't follow your reasoning at all - and not only because the Seinfeld example goes right above my head. I've never watched Seinfeld. Maybe I'm slow because it's new year's day and all, but I really don't understand what you mean by "this assumes that the client is able to have a good relationship". Do you mean that unless the client can have a good r/s there won't be a good r/s between therapist and client? Well, I guess that's kind of built into the concept. Somebody who cannot have a good relationship at all ever cannot have a good relationship ever, qed. But it isn't as black and white as that. I can have an acceptable professionally-based relationship with my T, and another kind of good professional r/s with my students, and a third with my colleagues, and so on. That doesn't mean I am capable of good friendships, to take an example from a different sphere of life. And certain aspects of the T relationship can, sometimes, for some people, emulate friendship, and that's what I was referring to.

Signing up to a gym with a personal trainer always means going to the gym. Signing up for therapy does not always mean discussing feelings. Lots of people have other needs than that.

I agree Mastodon, every relationship with everyone we ever come into contact with will be different as no two relationships are the same. However t's are supposed to show unconditional positive regard to every client. I imagine that could be tricky sometimes.

Originally Posted by monalisasmile

This is what I was trying to think of but couldn't find the words to express it. It is the practising things we wouldn't normally say to others and have them not judge us, this is so healing.

It is a good feeling, and very gratifying, but this is actually what I meant in my post. The therapy room is a protected bubble, and it doesn't change the outside reality. It is still not possible to say these things to others, so what's the use of practising doing so in front of somebody who doesn't think about us frim one session to the next?

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by monalisasmile

I can see where Stopdog is coming from. Excuse me if I am speaking for you or misinterpreting this- if so correct me. But I think she views therapy as a paid for service and in some way it is, it is whatever you want it to be because you are paying for it. She see's t as a professional like a doctor or dentist with whom there is no relationship- just a paid for service, a job and that's ok too as we all have different needs and wants.

Well I do view it as a paid for service. The point of my response was that not everyone hires a therapist (or personal trainer) for the same service/ reasons/purpose/with the same expectations and so forth. I might go to a doctor to get an explanation for a rash - but not want/use the dr's ointments or pills or advice. Just for the identification.