[IndestructibleGirl]

Hi, PC folks. I can't work this out in my own head, I keep going back and forth.

Recently, I made quite a big breakthrough in terms of my life/ way of thinking. Part of this was falling in love (I think, I'm not sure) with my therapist - it felt like I 'grew up', and finally knew what a loving relationship should feel like/ look like. Great. And my T was wonderfully tactful and sensitive towards my feelings, and I don't feel weird going into session. But.

Because love is the way it is, I can't just automatically magic those feelings up for someone else. But I'm fed up of having my head and my heart swivel towards her when I think about what I would like in a partner, so I have been trying to distract myself. I've been flirting with people out socially again, and I've set up an online dating profile, and it just all feels so...hollow. Not in a bad way, it's quite fun for about thirty seconds! Then I get bored. All it is is distraction and I don't want to be that person anymore.

I think I need to stop seeing my therapist, which does distress me. At the moment having appointments with her is a really positive thing and the fact I can't be with her romantically isn't significantly painful as such - it's just irritating - but I've read so many accounts here where the love feelings deepen and deepen and cause untold pain. I'm not up for that. I do love her (in what way I'm not completely sure, but I definitely do love her) but I love myself more, and I can't hang in there trying to do therapy if it becomes masochistic. At the moment all I get are occasional pangs of sadness - but maybe I should pay attention to them?

Even if I worked out that it isn't really erotic love, and it's just maternal transference...well, what good would that do?

Could it be time to move on, and pick up with another T at a later point?

[healingme4me]

It could, be time to at least take a break, sort it out. Decide later if they or a new T is what you need. Kudos, for not wanting the masochistic path.

Could be a major crush

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[sweepy62]

Isnt there a way you can work through this with her?, im sorry you are going through it, I know how you feel, I had paternal transference with my group t, which turned romantic, I dont think he even knew, it was a group. Until I told my old individual t, and got yanked out of group, having to deal with all the crap, a year later I still have some feelings, and the new t, will work on closure for me.

I think you should talk to her before quitting, I know its painful, oh how our past can just creep up on us and leave us in shambles, I had no clue this crap would forever follow us.

[AmysJourney]

I think possibly what you would like to hear is that you don't have to stop seeing your T and that you can work through these feelings. And actually, I would say exactly that :-)
So let me tell you why:

1. "Recently, I made quite a big breakthrough in terms of my life/ way of thinking"
2. "My T was wonderfully tactful and sensitive towards my feelings, and I don't feel weird going into session"
3. " At the moment having appointments with her is a really positive thing and the fact I can't be with her romantically isn't significantly painful as such - it's just irritating"
4. "Even if I worked out that it isn't really erotic love, and it's just maternal transference..."

This is what screams louder than than:
" but I've read so many accounts here where the love feelings deepen and deepen and cause untold pain."

I think what you're feeling is quite normal. You are not particularly distressed by it you are distressed at the possibility that it WILL become distressing.
But what if it won't? What if this is what you need right now to work through some things? It sounds you had some good sessions lately and I am so glad to read that because you had a tumultuous time not so long ago. This might be a great time to accept what you're feeling and tackle it.
It doesn't have to be masochistic, not everyone who has (romantic) feelings for their therapist is suffering tremendously. Many use it to work through the issues that cause this in the first place and find freedom. You can do it too. You are doing everything right, you are putting yourself out there, even if it doesn't feel like it's working for you (yet). But I really strongly believe you are at a better place in your therapy than maybe ever before (as far as I can say that from what I have read) and this could really be the road to many more breakthroughs.
Enjoy the love you feel for your therapist, enjoy how it makes you feel and the anticipation to see her etc..
As long as you don't start to be masochistic with yourself and deny yourself the chance to work through this, I think this can be good, even though you might find it difficult to see.

Much love,
Amelia

[IndestructibleGirl]

Thanks guys. I would definitely have a chat and be frank about it before stopping, that wouldn't worry me. That's the frigging irony at the moment - the feelings aren't too much to deal with right now. But I am afraid of them getting worse. I have been in a situation with unrequited love before and it can never end well if the person doing the loving keeps trailing after the beloved one.

It feels bonkers. Why would I even want to work through it with her, and basically just explore in depth the reasons why somebody would reject me? How can that be healthy - surely the dignified thing to do is to have some self-respect and walk away? Or maybe I'm kidding myself and I should stay, so I can reprogramme myself to be a suitable candidate for a proper relationship out in the real world I just don't know!

[IndestructibleGirl]

Amelia - I feel like I'm teetering on the brink of where sh.it gets real and it will start to become painful, precisely because of therapy showing me how things are supposed to be and how I can never have them. Not just romance. Friendships, and general human-being-in-the-worldness. I can't do it right. I see that now. I can stop doing it wrong, and ****ing myself up more, but I can't do it right - so I want to leave and not have to be confronted with my own failure at every sodding session.

"If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor" - it's like that saying. I need to forget her and her world and then maybe I can find a way with being content with my own, whilst now being equipped with the knowledge I got from her to keep myself safe. Or something! I'm rambling

[IndestructibleGirl]

Posting on AsiaBlue's hug thread has reminded me that I'm totally starting to want physical affection with my T This is a radically new thing. If I'm having a particularly long and trying dark night of the soul and my defences are down, the image of her there with me sidles into my head. I think about what it would be like to fall asleep cuddling her. Which makes me feel slightly sick with guilt and shame as soon as I feel a bit stronger/ numbed out, and fans the flames of loneliness even more. Then I put it very quickly out of my head.

Can't believe I'm even admitting that. Why can't I be normal and love normal ****ing people who aren't priests/ therapists/ authority figures/ emotionally unavailable manchildren/ insert various inappropriate person here.

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

Posting on AsiaBlue's hug thread has reminded me that I'm totally starting to want physical affection with my T This is a radically new thing. If I'm having a particularly long and trying dark night of the soul and my defences are down, the image of her there with me sidles into my head. I think about what it would be like to fall asleep cuddling her. Which makes me feel slightly sick with guilt and shame as soon as I feel a bit stronger/ numbed out, and fans the flames of loneliness even more. Then I put it very quickly out of my head.

Can't believe I'm even admitting that. Why can't I be normal and love normal ****ing people who aren't priests/ therapists/ authority figures/ emotionally unavailable manchildren/ insert various inappropriate person here.

I think you're mixed up about what's normal.

It's perfectly normal to want a relationship with our therapist! Our therapists model ideal humanity: a good therapist seems wise, caring, consistent, focused on us, resourceful and committed. If you didn't feel attracted to that... I'd be much much more concerned. It's like parents- we're supposed to idealize them, then realize we can't marry them, then go seek out equally good partners in the world. Just a part of growin up. Not always easy, especially for those of us who've found we have reason to be in therapy.

Dating may seem unfulfilling atm, but that doesn't mean it'll be that way forever. A good therapist helps us develop the ability for those good connections with others too, and even the longing can help, as painful as it is, because it can motivate us to find that authenticity, as much as possible, with others.

My question would be, what about all the other serious drama between you two? What happened to all of that? Is it resolving??

[boredporcupine]

I think about what it would be like to fall asleep cuddling her. Which makes me feel slightly sick with guilt and shame as soon as I feel a bit stronger/ numbed out, and fans the flames of loneliness even more. Then I put it very quickly out of my head.

I used to have so much shame and anxiety about wanting physical contact from my T, too. It has taken her a long time to persuade me it's just human and normal to want to be comforted like that.

I think you are forming an attachment, and if your T is competent that can be a very healing thing. But it can also be painful.

[AllyIsHopeful]

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

but I love myself more, and I can't hang in there trying to do therapy if it becomes masochistic.

Reading this sentence made me feel happy for you. It's really great that you feel this way.

Do whatever feels right to you- follow your intuition. Only you know what will be best for you and of the most benefit. How often do you see her now? Could you test the waters by trying to see her less? And if you feel like you are not done with therapy and need sessions more often, maybe you can consider seeing a second T during the transition. Just trying to think of ways to make the transition less painful for you if it is what you decide is best.

[feralkittymom]

Can't believe I'm even admitting that. Why can't I be normal and love normal ****ing people who aren't priests/ therapists/ authority figures/ emotionally unavailable manchildren/ insert various inappropriate person here.

I think you're trying to apply the rules of social relationships to a T/client relationship, and it just doesn't work that way. The fact that you feel you have a pattern of falling for unattainable partners shows that this is exactly what you need to work on. And your transference is the medium to do so. Because it's a safe and boundaried relationship, you can use it as a lab to experiment and explore these familiar feelings with/for your T. It will stretch you, mystify you, exhilarate you, and sometimes twist you into knots, for sure. But it could also be the best work you'll ever do that could change your life.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by Leah123

My question would be, what about all the other serious drama between you two? What happened to all of that? Is it resolving??

Thank you Leah, for all your input

Just regarding that last question above - in a way yes it's ok. We have less sessions and I suppose it's a lot more distant than it was before. My trainee-therapist friend disapproves of this because the goalposts changed so suddenly - but hey, I don't pay so what can I do? I don't want to cut off my nose to spite my face, but I am confused because I worry I'm just settling for not-good-enough-ness. And then I worry if I'm too rigid and unrealistic about my expectations from other people (my T said as much a few meetings ago - that I have rigid ways I want someone to 'be there' and if they don't meet that then I get offended and assume they don't want to be near me) hence withdrawing at a rate of knots. I simply can't get it right so it's safer to not do more damage.

Originally Posted by boredporcupine

I used to have so much shame and anxiety about wanting physical contact from my T, too. It has taken her a long time to persuade me it's just human and normal to want to be comforted like that.

I think you are forming an attachment, and if your T is competent that can be a very healing thing. But it can also be painful.

Thank you. Yup. Definitely have attachment, have done for ages. It was healing yes, but I'm not certain it still is.

Originally Posted by AllyIsHopeful

Reading this sentence made me feel happy for you. It's really great that you feel this way.

Thanks!! Yes, it is. Hence I'm wary of putting myself in harm's way...

I have been seeing her less this last while. She's pulled back from me overall, whilst still managing to be warm and great in sessions - I think it has returned to a more tightly boundaried therapist/client relationship. Which is good, I know, but...I've had a taste of feeling constantly welcomed and wanted (when the boundaries were very porous, and we were meeting every other day for two hours, with lots of in between session contact, and the stupid motherfu.cking job dilemma, etc) and now this feels like a poor relation.

The bit of me annoyed with her wants to be highly unreasonable and point out that it's hurtful to suddenly make a significant change in how you treat somebody. But it's everyone's choice (I mean not just therapists) to change their boundaries if they are uncomfortable with them, so I can't really say that

[Leah123]

[quote=IndestructibleGirl;3710230
The bit of me annoyed with her wants to be highly unreasonable and point out that it's hurtful to suddenly make a significant change in how you treat somebody. But it's everyone's choice (I mean not just therapists) to change their boundaries if they are uncomfortable with them, so I can't really say that[/quote]

How is it unreasonable to tell her you feel hurt because she is not seeing you as frequently?

I could see demanding that she see you more as unreasonable, perhaps, or cursing at her about it, or acting manipulative, but I don't think the feelings you have or expressing them are at all unreasonable.

Why wouldn't you be struggling with losing so much contact?

Anyhow, I wonder if this decrease and the previous confusion are two of the factors in you wanting to leave therapy.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by Leah123

How is it unreasonable to tell her you feel hurt because she is not seeing you as frequently?

I could see demanding that she see you more as unreasonable, perhaps, or cursing at her about it, or acting manipulative, but I don't think the feelings you have or expressing them are at all unreasonable.

Why wouldn't you be struggling with losing so much contact?

Anyhow, I wonder if this decrease and the previous confusion are two of the factors in you wanting to leave therapy.

Well, it feels unreasonable, because...well, because she gave me such a great gift. I worked out I've had $15,000 of free therapy in a short few months - and that's a while ago now, so that figure is still climbing. It feels most churlish and entitled to even bring it up that I would like it to be how it was before, where I had loads and loads of contact of all sorts. Like...if someone brings you an ice-cream, you enjoy it and are touched that they thought of you, you don't get ratty with them for not buying you one again the next day, right?

Also, I know that she has had health issues and an operation recently, and I am hesistant to take anyone to task and pick holes in the help they're offering when they aren't feeling well.

Argh it is flamin annoying though. Even today I'm annoyed because I've had no response to the text I sent this morning or the voicemail I left late afternoon. Which makes me feel a bit awkward going in tomorrow for an appointment. It's all such a bloody headache.

[Petra5ed]

I don't think you need to work out that it isn't really erotic love and is just "maternal transference." If you have erotic feelings it's erotic... and all erotic love is based in transference, and transference just means feelings.

Honestly, you should discuss it with your T, although I know that's easier said than done! I really suggest reading this as it was very eye opening for me Psychotherapy : Erotic Transference this article made me feel much better about my feelings for some reason.

No, I don't personally think you should find a new T. I'm not sure if that is right or wrong... but that is my gut feeling and what I decided to do. Maybe loving your T can continue to help you, and will eventually show you how to love others, including yourself more

[IndestructibleGirl]

And OF COURSE as soon as I complain here about no response, I get a response

It is a truth universally acknowledged that every time one whinges on PC about a therapist not being in touch, they must then feel an urge to immediately communicate with the client...

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

Can't believe I'm even admitting that. Why can't I be normal and love normal ****ing people who aren't priests/ therapists/ authority figures/ emotionally unavailable manchildren/ insert various inappropriate person here.

I think you're trying to apply the rules of social relationships to a T/client relationship, and it just doesn't work that way. The fact that you feel you have a pattern of falling for unattainable partners shows that this is exactly what you need to work on. And your transference is the medium to do so. Because it's a safe and boundaried relationship, you can use it as a lab to experiment and explore these familiar feelings with/for your T. It will stretch you, mystify you, exhilarate you, and sometimes twist you into knots, for sure. But it could also be the best work you'll ever do that could change your life.

Thank you, FKM I do have form for wanting the unavailable. Not convinced anymore it's this therapist I should be working it out with, though. Despite really valuing her in a tangible results-based way, as well as having fluffy loving thoughts about her.

I have made so much progress with her. My mind doesn't immediately grasp at suicidal thoughts now when I panic and spiral out of control - I think about other stuff, moving back to my home country, moving to a different continent, but not snuffing myself out.

I genuinely want to live now, but I have no idea how I'm going to do it and I want living to stop ****ing hurting and I want to get away from anyone that's threatening to pile on more hurt, because that will pull me back into thinking it's not worth staying alive again.

[feralkittymom]

Unfortunately, I don't believe we can choose who to do this work with. Our feelings are our feelings, and different people pull different transferences from us. And since the transference is ultimately in us, we carry it like a seed waiting to plant and bloom in other relationships. But I think if you can be transparent with your T about your fears, she should be able to help pace the work so that you don't destabilize. I didn't realize you'd been seeing her so frequently before her instituting a tighter frame (which I know feels like rejection, but really is the appropriate thing to do in order to keep you stable.) Seeing her so frequently probably did push your transference into overdrive. I guess it comes down to whether you trust and have faith in her abilities and her understanding of you; the work is there to be done, but do you believe that you can do it with her?

[AllyIsHopeful]

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

The bit of me annoyed with her wants to be highly unreasonable and point out that it's hurtful to suddenly make a significant change in how you treat somebody. But it's everyone's choice (I mean not just therapists) to change their boundaries if they are uncomfortable with them, so I can't really say that

I totally understand this. You are right...every individual is entitled to adjust their boundaries to the most appropriate and comfortable level. I don't think it is unreasonable to feel hurt that she suddenly changed her boundaries or how she treats you. Given you have been honest with her about your feelings and confusion regarding the relationship, I can see how the change is justified. It is still a very reasonable concern to bring up. Even though you may understand it, the change doesn't sit too well with you and it's worth discussing. Maybe you will feel better if you two can talk it out? I'm sorry you're experiencing these conflicting feelings. I know you have been struggling with this for a while now.