Calling out LCM— too harsh?

What. No. I'm not wasting my life away in this relationship. I've known her for 7 months. I have made progress in those 7 months. The relationship is more helpful than harmful. I'm just talking about one part of it that upsets me. A small part.

Ok - I think one of us if misunderstanding what the other is saying.

Perhaps I misinterpreted your saying you would rather be hurt by her than not have her, and took that to be you would be willing to put up with lots of sh.itty behavior.

Also, I think you misinterpreted what I'm saying, which is not that you are wasting away in this particular relationship as it is now - but that I find it a matter of concern that you might keep compromising and compromising and compromising and keep lowering the bar as to what you accept in terms of how you are treated.

It is quite obvious to me that the relationship with LC, as it is now, has done/ is doing you a power of good. I think she is great for you.

But none of us should be prepared to suck it up and blindly accept it if someone's behaviour changes for the worse, therapist or LC or whoever they are.

I agree. It's sort of the same idea if you were to drink unicorn blood.

(For all you Harry Potter lovers out there!)

Growl, do you genuinely think that this is a small problem of an inability to manage time only? Are you unable to see or consider the issues of very poor boundary setting?

I relate a lot of what I write here in regards to my own experience with children, but I find it often is the same for us as adults. Children require structure and rules to gain a sense of mastery over their environment. It's how a toddler gains independence from being completely reliant on the parent some independence through potty-training and learning how to dress themselves and feeds themselves, and how dependent youth turn into responsible adults.

There has to be some sort of structure there to provide a safe environment for testing the waters to gain this independence. LCM seems to be all over the place in terms of what her "structure" is, which is what really seems to be behind all of these issues.

This is what it looks like, from an outsiders perspective. I respect the fact that it might not be as obvious to you since it's sometimes hard to see outside of the situation you're personally in.

Hi growly, nobody, is telling you to leave lc, what I read hear and I agree and have posted myself is that, boundaries, if any, are very blurred here on her part, that is why a t is very important, to foster independence, structure and boundaries, to help you grow, along with your lc, as a mentor.

if your lc says she will meet , or text or call you at a certain time, and lets you down, because she forgets, apologizes, but keeps doing it, thats a setback for your self esteeem. In a therapeutic relationship, its different.

It seems in my oppinion your lc is more of a friend or something in between, not as a professional lc as I read a description on google. Not to demean her, because I know she has been there for you.

But not with the right toolbox, she has the right intentions, but not equipped, its like calling a plumber, to perform surgery, he may want to save you, and try, and care, but not equipped.

Congratulations! Sending this email and taking the first steps to setting boundaries and standing up for yourself with LCM is a big step. I'm so happy for you that you did it.

LCM will probably (hopefully) apologize and work with you to find a way to make your phone sessions more reliable in timing. As a professional, that's what she should do - and she should validate and understand your emotions in regards to the sessions being repeatedly moved without notice.

Go you!

I agree that no one is saying your LCM is downright bad for you or implying that you must leave her.

It pains me to say this but I sometimes wonder if LCM is in over her head. It doesn't appear to me she has many boundaries, I might go far to say that it might be stressful to her to carry the weight of your love. What I mean is that she hasn't established clear boundaries with you and as a result you get hurt when she can't be there for you 24/7 or when she goes away. Going backwards with boundaries by trying to create them is a lot more difficult than establishing them initially, and I think she's realized this a bit too late.

And as many of have said, she is not a therapist and shouldn't be referred to as such. She doesn't have the certifications or the qualifications to be in a place where she holds so much power over you. I'm not sure I think she's doing good work by not pushing you a little harder to get more help from a licensed T. I wonder about this...it's like she thinks she can manage well enough alone, which doesn't strike me as a positive thing.

Grow, no matter how much you "fight" us and no matter how much you defend her, the majority of us here have deep reservations about keeping LCM as your only source of support. Please consider getting more help.

I'm not trying to keep her as my only support. She also isn't. I have DBT and school T. I'm going to eventually get a real T. LCM even wants me to get a real T. It just hasn't happened yet and I'm too stressed out and overwhelmed to even think about it right now. I know people will tell me that when I'm overwhelmed, that is when I need to get a new T. But I can't right now. I don't have the time or the energy. exTT was such a waste of my time. I'm not game to waste much more time trying to find a new one. I hate meeting new people. I'm scared to call people on the phone and even more scared to do some sort of therapist "interview" because I don't know what I want/need and I don't trust my own judgement. I need to have some available time and space to set aside and find one which I do not have at this moment.

Growli, the message you sent was assertive, honest, and very clear. I hope you receive an appropriate response.

About your resistance to finding a T, here are my thoughts:
1. We make time in life for things that are important to us.
2. Your current T is already hurting you. Even if it's unintentional, her behavior is dredging up all sorts of old feelings and memories for you.
3. It's possible to be attached to more than one person.
4. In this lifetime, it's inevitable that someone we love will leave. It's a matter of how we develop the tools and skills to cope.

Sending hugs your way.

Well she hasn't even answered me just to say that we're okay so it was probably unreasonable or she needs to think about it. She'll probably say she can't work with me anymore and then I'll be all alone again.

I shouldn't have said anything. I ruin everything. Now she'll leave and I will have ruined this. It wasn't that big of a deal. I made too much of a scene about it. I should have just taken it and said nothing. She's nothing. She won't tell me everything is okay. Everything must not be okay.

Grow..I am so sorry you are going through this. I went through something very similar with xpcp (she is not practicing in our area). She was the first person I opened up to. I felt safe with her. She had recommended finding a T and pdoc. Like you I was afraid of letting more people in. After a few months she convinced me to see a T. As she said my life is like and onion that had a lot of layers and she knew that I needed somebody more trained that her. My meds were very difficult. She was having a very hard time knowing what to do. I still didn't want to go elsewhere especially since I work with the Pdocs and pnps. After a while though I finally came around as I found myself very frustrated and T was able to help me see that by not seeing pnp I was not getting the most experienced care.

So I really do understand where you are coming from Grow. I have been there. I was frustrated that everybody kept telling me that I needed help other than what pcp could offer. I in fact wanted to stop seeing pcp as well. It helped that pcp knew a wonderful T from her previous work and thought we would be great together. She is my current T. I am so thankful I finally really heard what everybody was saying.

I'm sorry you're hurting. Phone sessions with someone who is not a trained therapist who fails to set boundaries and leaves you feeling abandoned is not an adequate substitute for therapy. Your excuses are just that. Please seek professional help.

I'm not trying to tell you to leave her. You can see a T short term while you still see her. She is not a licensed T herself so there's no conflict there. This is just a suggestion out of concern and not a judgement against LCM. It just appears that you are lowering of your expectations from someone because you are scared to lose her (like what happens when we settle for a significant other). This not a tiny issue and is way more than poor time management skills. If she were employed in a clinic setting and did these things she would have had multiple complaints by now. It doesn't mean she isn't a good caring person at all. But I do think it means that she is in over her head, is losing control of the situation and you both may need some outside help.

I texted LCM after not hearing from her in response. She said she didn't get any emails and wouldn't read it anyway.

I know my email went through. Her phone must not be loading it. But she won't read it anyway.

Won't read it? Is that a new development in your dynamic? Has she previously read emails?

Yes she has. She said because we chatted on Thursday and texted yesterday, she won't read an email as well.

That's wrong. I'm sorry, but things like this make me so sad for you Growli. You deserve better, and you deserve a T who is competent and consistent to be able to help you. This really does sound like the power dynamics that an abusive relationship are made out of, and even if she isn't abusing you, those dynamics are really bad for you emotionally.

Doesn't all therapy have a power dynamic like this though? The therapist has more power than the client just by design?

growli, there is a power dynamic in therapy and that is why Ts are trained how to handle the boundaries in a professional manner. the boundaries are primarily to keep you emotionally safe and secure. your LC is not a T and has not been trained how to handle issues like this and sure doesn't seem to be handling it well at all. becoming a LC is nothing like the training to become a T. Ts are aware they need to be consistent and establish boundaries for the health of the client. of course some do make mistakes but a LC doesn't even have the proper training to know how to handle this sort of thing.

you mentioned you have DBT and a school T. are you currently seeing either one of those or are they just available for you? can you reach out to either the group T or your school T?

Therapy does have a power imbalance where the therapist has more power than the client, because the client is dependent on the therapist, and is vulnerable with the therapist. But it is the therapist job to manage that dynamic responsibly, and it doesn't sound like LCM is doing that. Not agreeing to read your emails at all without any clear boundary being set about that initially is dishonest and an abuse of power. Also you set the email so that you could set your own boundary and declare your own needs, and she doesn't seem to be honoring your attempt to do that. She really should acknowledge that you sent the email, and make an option for you to somehow discuss the content of the email with her. Just because she has more power doesn't mean that you can't negotiate things, or explain what your needs are. Consistency and reliability are very important in therapy relationships.

She is getting licensed to be a T. She's in school for it. So she's not totally untrained.

School T is leaving in two weeks. DBT T is a man

She texted me saying she got the email and read it. She said she's proud of me for sending it.

She said she was wrong to do that. I was right and we can talk about this tomorrow. She said she was sorry.

It seems that because there are no set boundaries, and lc seems to make them as she goes along, or whenever, its convenient, your emotions, are all over the place, it may not be her intention to hurt you, but, its a setback for you mentally.

She is not equipped to handle this type of situation, without you having a professional t, who will set boundaries in the beginning, to keep you safe, and provide consistancy.

Accepting an apology all the time is minimizing yourself and your needs.

well, that is better than nothing but she isn't a T yet. this is sort of like being treated by a 1st year med student. unfortunately, not a good idea at all. look, i think she cares for you and means well but is just not equipped to really help you, certainly not as a T. i am glad she responded to you and has apologized but is she willing to do anything differently? is she willing to set up some consistency and boundaries in your relationship? she needs to do more than just apologize.

what about asking school T or DBT T for a referral to another T? even if you don't start until the Fall with a new T you could get it set up now. wouldn't doing something like that help you feel like you are starting next year off in a good place. you would be creating a secure space for yourself to come back to. and, if you are able to stay where you are for the summer then that is even better and you can start seeing the new T now. just think about it, okay? i know all this stuff is really hard.

Well she set a time for tomorrow evening. She doesn't usually set times. Ha, she told me what time we are talking and then was like "wait... if that time works for you" so she's a beginner at setting times but I guess you have to start somewhere. I still doubt I'll actually be talking to her at 6:30 like she said. It'll probably be more like 7:00 or 7:30 or even 9:30 but we'll see. I guess she might hold fast to 6:30 this one time because I chewed her out, but then she'll fall back. Maybe I shouldn't laugh with her or be lighthearted. Maybe that makes it seem more playful and therefore casual to her.

The thing is that maybe I just don't give her enough hell about it. She could probably cancel every time for months and I'd still wait for her to call. I don't hold her accountable for anything and I'm not accepting apologies left and right. She says "can we move the time to x?" and I just always say "yes. whenever is best for you" because I so desperately want to be comfortable with spontaneous times. Not because I want to avoid this conflict but because my mother is so damn **** about time and appointments she'd scream at me if we were less than 15mins early to a doctor's appointment. I know that her issues with scheduling and her telling me I'm a worthless piece of trash for making us late caused me to be nervous about schedules and I really want to be everything my mom isn't. So I pretend to be lax about the time and cool with approximates and cover up the fact that I'm always constantly running my schedule through my head, paranoid that I'll be late or forget something.

This doesn't sound any better because I know I'm blaming myself for her shortcomings but really I'm sure I play a part.

School T will not make referrals. I've asked. I have to find this T on my own with help from LCM.