[IndestructibleGirl]

The more I think about my old therapist, the guiltier I feel - I exploited her love and kindness. I can't shake this feeling out of myself. I have literally never been so arrogant and entitled with anyone else except probably with my mother. In therapy, I was a horrible person Out of therapy, I feel far, FAR less borderline. I feel less insane with need and hunger and chronic dissatisfaction. I feel able to command my own life a hell of a lot better, much more self reliant, and it's not a daunting terrifying ask of myself.

She wasn't being paid for large tracts of time we worked together, and still I kept taking. Had the audacity to ask for more and to keep asking.

I don't understand when or why I flipped from being ok to being too needy and too much for her and for myself. I can't figure it out at all, I can't work out what shifts and makes me exploit somebody when it's a boyfriend/ mother/ therapist situation.

Ugh. I went into therapy with the catchphrase 'I am afraid I am too much' and it has managed to reinforce this as truth.

[AllHeart]

Send her a handwritten note and tell her what you just said here. It might be a way to free you of the guilt you feel, and give you a sense of closure.

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

The more I think about my old therapist, the guiltier I feel - I exploited her love and kindness. I can't shake this feeling out of myself. I have literally never been so arrogant and entitled with anyone else except probably with my mother. In therapy, I was a horrible person Out of therapy, I feel far, FAR less borderline. I feel less insane with need and hunger and chronic dissatisfaction. I feel able to command my own life a hell of a lot better, much more self reliant, and it's not a daunting terrifying ask of myself.

She wasn't being paid for large tracts of time we worked together, and still I kept taking. Had the audacity to ask for more and to keep asking.

I don't understand when or why I flipped from being ok to being too needy and too much for her and for myself. I can't figure it out at all, I can't work out what shifts and makes me exploit somebody when it's a boyfriend/ mother/ therapist situation.

Ugh. I went into therapy with the catchphrase 'I am afraid I am too much' and it has managed to reinforce this as truth.

Wait. There was someone else in that room. Don't you think she played a role in your unraveling?

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by licketysplit

Wait. There was someone else in that room. Don't you think she played a role in your unraveling?

Yes she did most definitely.

But I regret that I did what I did even so. Regret that I felt so needy.

I just can't work out what happened really. Wtf.

[jaciRock]

Could your hindsight be all messed up? Perhaps at the time you needed (and she knew you needed) the extra time. Now it seems (to yourself) that it was mainly selfish. Maybe your perception of that time period is wrong.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by jaciRock

Could your hindsight be all messed up? Perhaps at the time you needed (and she knew you needed) the extra time. Now it seems (to yourself) that it was mainly selfish. Maybe your perception of that time period is wrong.

I did need it at the time, in the moment. She made mistakes in encouraging it, but I should have said no. I should have held myself back more. It made her resentful and out of her depth, and it made me frantic and more needy. If only I had said no.

If only I could have kept my fat stupid mouth shut SO MANY TIMES over the whole relationship. Why couldn't I do that? Why do I feel now like I could have tried harder to dilute all the neediness and panic?

[Asiablue]

Can you tell me exactly what this self-flagellation is accomplishing right now?

What good is it doing you to take on pretty much all of the blame? Is it making you feel better? Does it inspire you or give you peace to call yourself stupid and needy and big-mouthed?

You have a choice here. You can choose to be horrible to yourself and call yourself names that hurt your soul and make yourself miserable in the process.
OR
You can be gentle with yourself, acknowledge that you did the best you could at the time. That having needs is okay and that you can't make anyone give or do anything they don't want to. That it didn't work out because you need something different than what she could give and the relationship was built on sinking sand the minute she let the boundaries blur.

What would feel better?

[feralkittymom]

(IG) I think this emotional wave is coming from the flashbacks you've been having, not the therapy experience. The feelings of guilt, why didn't I act differently, why couldn't I control myself and other, it's my fault-- it all is strikingly the same as common recriminations surrounding abuse. There were aspects of your therapy that reflect these feelings, but I don't think it's really about your therapy. You're not to blame in either case.

[jaciRock]

Why are you blaming yourself when you went to her for help? She was the professional not you. Why are you so sure she was resentful and out of her depth?

She may have been. She's only human. But so are you.

I think many of us might have reacted to her the way you did. I crave from my T what your T gave you, all those hours, all that out of session contact. But I think the same would happen to me if she gave it, it would feed into some neediness. I don't think it was love and kindness, it was therapy conducted poorly. The boundaries are essential to good therapy.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by Asiablue

Can you tell me exactly what this self-flagellation is accomplishing right now?

What good is it doing you to take on pretty much all of the blame? Is it making you feel better? Does it inspire you or give you peace to call yourself stupid and needy and big-mouthed?

You have a choice here. You can choose to be horrible to yourself and call yourself names that hurt your soul and make yourself miserable in the process.
OR
You can be gentle with yourself, acknowledge that you did the best you could at the time. That having needs is okay and that you can't make anyone give or do anything they don't want to. That it didn't work out because you need something different than what she could give and the relationship was built on sinking sand the minute she let the boundaries blur.

What would feel better?

I don't feel like I'm being that horrid to myself. I just feel incredulous at how desperate I was. Still am a bit, at times. I don't understand, I just. don't. understand.

And I don't necessarily think it's always doomed the minute the boundaries get blurred - like I mentioned to you last week, she's off doing therapy in bars with other clients who thinks she's the best thing since sliced bread - as heard from their own mouths, not her saying it. So THEY can handle those boundaries, and me, well I can't. That pisses me off, my own ineptitude.

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

(IG) I think this emotional wave is coming from the flashbacks you've been having, not the therapy experience. The feelings of guilt, why didn't I act differently, why couldn't I control myself and other, it's my fault-- it all is strikingly the same as common recriminations surrounding abuse. There were aspects of your therapy that reflect these feelings, but I don't think it's really about your therapy. You're not to blame in either case.

I hadn't thought of this, and I definitely think there's something in it. I was having thoughts along those lines re flashback stuff, but no feeling guilty for example. But with this, the emotion of guilt is wreching at my insides.

Originally Posted by jaciRock

Why are you blaming yourself when you went to her for help? She was the professional not you. Why are you so sure she was resentful and out of her depth?

She may have been. She's only human. But so are you.

Because I am Olympic elite at self-blame and self-savagery, that's probably why.

She was resentful/out of depth. She terminated me by a text which I think pretty much sums it up. <not bitter at all...>

Originally Posted by Brown Owl

I think many of us might have reacted to her the way you did. I crave from my T what your T gave you, all those hours, all that out of session contact. But I think the same would happen to me if she gave it, it would feed into some neediness. I don't think it was love and kindness, it was therapy conducted poorly. The boundaries are essential to good therapy.

Yes. I think that too, that a goodly number of people would have ended up in the same mess in the same circs. It crashes round inside my skull - the need to know why, why did she deliberately set out on such a stupid path. HOW CAN YOU HAVE ALL THAT TRAINING AND STILL ARSE IT UP TO THAT EXTENT?! Sorry, BrownOwl, I'm not shouting at you, I'm shouting at her really, because she would never really answer that (I asked a lot more politely) only said she had to change the boundaries for her health, which is not answering why she was so dangerously lax in the first place. I mean, it could never end well.

[jaciRock]

She meets patients in bars? She terminated you by text? Hello--can you spell UNPROFESSIONAL? I can. And she was/is.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by jaciRock

She meets patients in bars? She terminated you by text? Hello--can you spell UNPROFESSIONAL? I can. And she was/is.

Yes, at least one in a specialist kind of bar to do something they both enjoy. And when I couldn't pay and wanted more hours she suggested we go to a rather famous London hotel bar to do 90 minutes there instead and so have no room rental, but it wouldn't be suitable to do trauma work there so..

But the other clients thrive on it. And I couldn't.

I like getting away from convention and hate authority (rigidity and routines make me nervous) so doing things in ways that seemed to be offbeat and unorthodox always appeals to me. And she said several time she herself actually has a problem with authority.

My head is just a mess when I think on all this. There seem to have been too many variables, too many curve balls and possibilities and complications.

[SkyscraperMeow]

This is, was, and always has been a simple matter of your ex-therapist being manipulative and wildly unprofessional.

You've been told this almost a hundred times by almost a hundred people (maybe a slight exaggeration, but you get the point.)

At this point, I'm starting to wonder why you're so attached to the notion of publicly berating yourself for something the logical part of your brain must know wasn't your fault.

Is there some reward in constantly doing this?

I would suggest employing another therapist, preferably one who isn't balls to the wall insane and has a passing grasp of professional boundaries and work this out with them.

Right now, this seems circular and self-defeating and in spite of all the reassurance you're getting and have got, you're just repeating yourself. What, precisely, can anyone here do for you when you've already been told what you need to hear multiple times and you just ignore it and then a few days later post basically the same thing all over again?

[Giucy]

But the other clients thrive on it. And I couldn't.

Really ? They thrive better than you ?

I hate bursting bubbles, but nope, the other clients don't thrive better in these boundaries better than you do. They are at the same place as you.
You did realize that the situation was unhealthy.

Ex-T has been unprofessional and damaging to you. Not the other way round.

Your feeling needy are the reason you went first in therapy to get better. You didn't get better with that lady, you got worse.
This therapy was not therapy. Setting good boundaries were your ex-T responsibility, not yours. She absolved her responsibilities and blamed you for her mistakes.

Your boundaries are fine.
Ex-T's boundaries were crappy, exploitative and unprofessional. You didn't create it, you can't control it and you cannot cure ex-T's crappy boundaries.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by SkyscraperMeow

This is, was, and always has been a simple matter of your ex-therapist being manipulative and wildly unprofessional.

You've been told this almost a hundred times by almost a hundred people (maybe a slight exaggeration, but you get the point.)

At this point, I'm starting to wonder why you're so attached to the notion of publicly berating yourself for something the logical part of your brain must know wasn't your fault.

Is there some reward in constantly doing this?

I would suggest employing another therapist, preferably one who isn't balls to the wall insane and has a passing grasp of professional boundaries and work this out with them.

Right now, this seems circular and self-defeating and in spite of all the reassurance you're getting and have got, you're just repeating yourself. What, precisely, can anyone here do for you when you've already been told what you need to hear multiple times and you just ignore it and then a few days later post basically the same thing all over again?

Nobody has a gun to your head making you read or reply.

Yes, I am repeating myself, because my pain is repeating round and round in my head in bursts. It's not with me all the time and when it swells I come here and fire it down on the page. And big ****ing yes is it circular! My head spins in circles on this when it strikes! I don't know what way is up.

My head is up my hole when it comes to this woman. I love her, I want to shake myself for loving her and forget, and I also get swamped in very ****ing real guilt about it. Because it mirrors all the rows with my biological mother, the recent argument with my brother where he told me a few 'home truths' that echoced what my therapist said (we are now ok, yay us) and that with my ex boyfriend. Basically every other real-life relationship where things have gone sour - so I yes, genuinely feel at times like it is all my fault.

I don't come on here for some exhibitionist indulgence, as you are suggesting. My guilt and bitterness and pain and doubt and confusion were genuine.

Because it's heartache, and not depression, it's not something that's screwing up the rest of my life - it's waves of loneliness and hurt that come on when I'm not busy and doing stuff, and yes I come post here.

ETA - You know what, I probably do post whenever I'm in most danger of weakening and getting in touch with her. So ****ing what. It strengthens my resolve to post here rather than send her an email begging her to love me again.

I'm a year and a half out of a bad therapy relationship and a horrible termination and I still go around and around in my head like this about why it happened and was it my fault and on and on. First of all I didn't go into therapy because I am mentally healthy and able to deal with crap like this. I was hoping/expecting a therapist to be able to help me. To be screwed over like this is one of the worst kinds of trauma a person can go through. It's beyond explanation and description unless you have been through it. A person might need to work though it over and over until it sinks in that it isn't their fault. Yes, it might not be the most healthy way of dealing with it, but, heck, isn't that part of why some of us went into therapy in the first place?

Berating someone who is trying to comprehend and deal with a trauma like this (yes, it IS a trauma) is shameful and not helpful.

This place sometimes just makes me shake my head and yet I keep coming back. Of course, some of you all probably just shake your head at me too.

[Gavinandnikki]

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

Nobody has a gun to your head making you read or reply.

Yes, I am repeating myself, because my pain is repeating round and round in my head in bursts. It's not with me all the time and when it swells I come here and fire it down on the page. And big ****ing yes is it circular! My head spins in circles on this when it strikes! I don't know what way is up.

My head is up my hole when it comes to this woman. I love her, I want to shake myself for loving her and forget, and I also get swamped in very ****ing real guilt about it. Because it mirrors all the rows with my biological mother, the recent argument with my brother where he told me a few 'home truths' that echoced what my therapist said (we are now ok, yay us) and that with my ex boyfriend. Basically every other real-life relationship where things have gone sour - so I yes, genuinely feel at times like it is all my fault.


I don't come on here for some exhibitionist indulgence, as you are suggesting. My guilt and bitterness and pain and doubt and confusion were genuine.

Because it's heartache, and not depression, it's not something that's screwing up the rest of my life - it's waves of loneliness and hurt that come on when I'm not busy and doing stuff, and yes I come post here.

ETA - You know what, I probably do post whenever I'm in most danger of weakening and getting in touch with her. So ****ing what. It strengthens my resolve to post here rather than send her an email begging her to love me again.

But you beat yourself up, over and over, to the extreme. Self-flagellation would be an understatement.

Some folks can't help but wonder why.... To do something repetively implies there must be a perceived benefit.

[IndestructibleGirl]

The benefit is an outlet for my thoughts rather than texting her.

I can't stop thinking the way I do on it. Its like asking a person with ocd to stop washing their hands because they are raw and sore.

Jesus. Six months ago I would have been plunged into a deep depression and had trouble functioning. Now I get slagged off for coping as best I can while continuing to make good life choices (ie not self sabotage) and continuing to process this **** largely alone.

Well at least I know where I stand. It is clear I am too much for pc as well.

[LindaLu]

Indestructible, it's really striking you call yourself a horrible person at that time. Turn on the news to hear about really horrible people. Your T is the one who let boundaries get soft, so maybe she is horrible, having known better. More realistically the relationship was ill-fated from early on and you may have gained insights that will carry you forward.

You're not to much for PC. A lot of us have followed your journey and want to hear from you.

Originally Posted by LindaLu

Indestructible, it's really striking you call yourself a horrible person at that time. Turn on the news to hear about really horrible people. Your T is the one who let boundaries get soft, so maybe she is horrible, having known better. More realistically the relationship was ill-fated from early on and you may have gained insights that will carry you forward.

You're not to much for PC. A lot of us have followed your journey and want to hear from you.

I agree too, you are not too much for this board, I want to hear your story and hearing your story has helped me reflect on my own therapy.

[feralkittymom]

Insight is wonderful, but it doesn't shortcut the time necessary emotionally for processing. I would be very surprised if there's anyone on this forum who has been able to turn 180 degrees simply on the basis of another person's insight. Some may appear to, but that's usually no more than the acting out of a defense. Everyone processes differently: some do art, some act out, some jump into another therapy, some write. I don't think reaching out to others in any safe way deserves criticism.

[Gavinandnikki]

As I've said before, I think you are warm, loving and smart. Sound pretty fun too. And very intense. Emote away. It's safe and if it helps, even a tiny bit, with your grief, bring it on.

But you are so damn hard on yourself- you do not deserve the degree of self distaste that you inflict on yourself.

That's why I wondered why you keep doing it? If it's cathartic for you, great. The pain is palpable.

PC can always take you- you've given so much support to so many.