Abandonment issues again

Sorry if I'm becoming a nuisance or a "broken record".

I'm dangling by a rope that has unraveled and only have a thread left. I'm not doing well.

I know I'm in a depressive state. I know it should be over in about a week. But while in it, it feels like quicksand sucking me under. T says to basically "fake it till you make it", that my actions will affect my thoughts which will affect my feelings. It takes so much freaking effort to do that. I know what she says is right, but saying it is much easier than doing it. She wants me to challenge all my thoughts. I told her that when I do that, it feels like I'm lying to myself.

My T was in challenge mode today, and I didn't like it. Oddly enough, she started the session by saying how proud she is of me for meeting all my short term goals. I never knew I had short term goals? So my goals were to be stable on my meds, manage my Ativan, and seek support from within the community. I don't know, that doesn't seem like that is much of an accomplishment for me.

She kept saying over and over again that I need to practice my coping skills. I have no energy to get out of bed or take a shower unless I have to. I have tons of things to do around the house, tons of coping skills, but I have no energy. She told me to do just one thing to accomplish everyday (i.e. showing up to therapy, going to dinner with my mom, cleaning a bathroom mirror, etc.) It sounds so pathetic. These are thing I should be able to do no problem. I feel like such a failure. How can she be proud of this?

At the end of session, she triggered my fear of abandonment. I asked her if she could do a phone or email check in later this week. She said her schedule is so full that she doesn't have time. No one has time for me. Pdoc didn't have time to see my one more time before her leave, primary doesn't have time, DBT facilitator doesn't have time, T doesn't have time, mom doesn't have time due to work, fiance doesn't have time due to work and school, and fiance's family thinks I should get over it. Funny, when my T asked my how do I know I have worth, I answered because people need me. She said that was an awesome answer. But why is it when people need me, I am there, but when I need people, they don't have time. Why is 5-10mins too much time? Is that really a high expectation?

So challenging my thoughts:
*I'm alone -- I have people all around me.
*I have no emotional support -- T supports me once a week for 50mins, mom has dinner w/ me once a week, my older sister invites me to her parties, my fiance spends time with me
*My T doesn't care -- she worries about me, sees me every week, gibes me hugs
* Everyone has abandoned me -- everyone is still in my life just at a diminished capacity
*I'm worthless -- people need me

Hmm, yeah, not helpful right now. Why? Because I really need support right now and everyone has pushed me away (maybe for practical reasons, but still...) And I'm not to a point where I can find that support within myself.

Well, my T was worried about me when I left session and called my fiance. My fiance called me. I told him I was depressed, T is worried, I'm upset and don't want to talk about it, plus I was driving. So he starts calling me over and over again. He calls my mom, his mom, and my T to try to get me to pick up the phone. So everyone is freaking out and I just want to be left in peace. I needed time to calm down and I couldn't take Ativan because I was driving, so I turned off my phone so I would be safe. That is not helpful. His grandma comes over to the house and asks what's wrong. I tell her I'm having a bad day. She told me to get over it!

My T wants me to go to the hospital, but I don't want to. They won't do anything anyways. I seem way too "put together" and they won't consider me severe enough to admit me. And the only other thing they would do is give me Ativan. Well, I already have that.

I feel so trapped within myself. No matter which way I move, I'm going the wrong way. So I want to just stop and drown.

You are so hard on yourself. Your own expectations of yourself might be what's trapping you because no matter what you do, you don't meet the expectations you place on yourself. Your therapist, although is trying to help, reinforces that by placing expectations on you on top of what you already have. That makes 'double' expectations.

It's the harsh superego vs. the pleasure seeking id. You're id is over-controlled. Sorry, i don't have the answers but can really relate to your posts, especially about feeling trapped and the abandonment fears. I've also had sui feelings about being trapped, it's so distressing, i can empathize and relate.

I see this pattern in most all of your posts and always wonder why you don't see this within yourself because i know you are very bright.

Maybe try to not work so hard, see what happens. Do the opposite of everything you think you 'should' do or how you think you 'should' feel. That might lead to new insights...

I hope it passes soon.

i am going to challenge your im worthless=people need me statement. ask you to reevaluate that one. it isnt the best thing to gain your worth by what you do for others. and then that throws into the works i idea that you are always there for others and nobody has time for you and make you feel like crap.

worth needs to come from within you. what are you worth to yourself, not what you gain by giving to others. I came up with one indisputable fact. one good thing about me that I could not deny no matter how bad I felt about myself. for me it was that I was a good writer. I have always gotten A's on my papers for as long as I can remember and write professional evaluations today that receive praise. there is no denying that I am a good writer. so when I started running off that list of bad things in my head, I could say, yeah, but I am a good writer to compliment myself and feel good instead of bad. soon I found more good things about me and added them to the list. it took awhile but eventually I started believing that I was a good person with these good qualities. this is how I built my worth.

Totally agree with this. People needing you is external, and believing in your own worth needs to be stamped through you like a stick of rock. Not subject to the ebb and flow of others.

(((SP)))
I'm going to quote my T at you:
Don't minimize what you have achieved
and
Don't beat yourself over the head with a 2x4

Yeah, you're in good company, I do the same things, but, seriously, stoppit already, you're made of awesome (and so am I!).

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Sending you hugs and good vibes No advice or words of wisdom, just want to say I believe in you and know you will ride out this storm, as bad as it is, and you'll come through the other side when you're ready. Take care ... oh, I do have some advice ... please don't forget to eat. Everything will feel much worse if your blood sugar gets skewed. That sounds very maternal or big sister or something, I know, but I'm a huge believer in taking care of the body as a way to help contain emotions. So, take care, and remember we're here for you.

Hi SP,

I'm sorry you're struggling with this. Your achievements are not small ones. They are building blocks on which to set a strong foundation for bigger achievements in the future.

It sounds like you're really feeling abandoned right now. I would like to help challenge that idea, if I may. Try putting your hands out in front of you, palms flat, and push away. Then, wrap your arms around yourself like you're giving yourself a hug. There is a difference between pushing something away, and drawing closer to yourself. It sounds like your support team members are all drawing into themselves at the moment, because they have their own responsibilities to themselves and other people too, but that action is not the same as pushing you away.

This will pass. The one thing the hospital can do is keep you safe. If you become dangerous to yourself, please go.

Please forgive me for this if observations are unwanted; if so, just ignore this post.

I noticed that you need support and feel it's hard for you to get it. You reach out and people do not respond because they are busy taking care of themselves first. Then, when your fiance calls and wants to offer you the support you need and want by checking on you, something changes. Instead of accepting that support in the moment, you decline to speak with him, thus triggering panic among your family and other supporters, who suddenly are afraid for you and begin beating down the door to get to you to make sure you're okay. Then you are not able to accept the concern for you that they are showing, despite wanting it very much, because then it's overwhelming.

Is it possible this is a pattern for you? That you get to a point where you feel like no one is paying attention or cares, and so when they do start showing you attention because you have gone off the grid, you become upset with them and aren't up to talking?

This is meant as a very gentle question: perhaps things could be a little easier if you were able to accept support when people become concerned for you, instead of shutting them out by refusing to speak with them? I do understand that the situation while driving is not the best for long talks. Perhaps next time you could set up a time to return a checkin call so people won't worry and therefore freak you and themselves out, and you get that 5-10 minutes you need later to talk for support.

It's not perfect, it's not the best solution, but sometimes we have to work around and with others' needs to fulfill our own. Maybe next time someone calls, worried and trying to get in touch, pick up the call and let them check in. They do that because they love you. Let yourself feel their care even if it's not coming in exactly the way or time you could really use it.

Much love to you and please try to be good to yourself. It's clear to me that you are deeply loved by many.

I do know I'm hard in myself. I'm a perfectionist and a people pleaser. If I do anything, I have to give it 100% effort. I don't usually attempt anything long-term because I tire out too quickly, give up, and then feel like a failure. My T is constantly telling me I don't have to be "an A student". But anything less isn't good enough. I don't know why I'm like this. Throughout my life people either had high expectations of me or none at all. Maybe it's the abandonment? I know I try to do everything as perfectly as I can so people will want to stay with me. I almost never ask for anything except for what I need. I always ask, never demand. I try to create an illusion that everything is okay, so I don't burden anyone. Until my T called my fiance today, he didn't even know how bad I was. When I first walked into session today, even my T thought I looked like I was doing well.

I was "trained" to keep everything stuffed down. My parents wanted to paint a perfect portrait of my family: great kids, each owned their own business, happy, healthy... What would the parents of the children at my mom's preschool think if they found out she had a daughter with mental health issues?! My parents actually put me on phen-fen at age 14 so I would stay skinny. They moved to another city when their friends found out I had mental health problems. They put me into modeling classes to teach me etiquette and beauty. I got an A- in one of my math classes and my dad yelled at me because it wasn't an A+. At church, I was never doing enough. Towards the end, I was going to Sunday morning and night service, Monday bible class, Wednesday youth group, and Friday bible study. But even that wasn't enough. I wasn't a believer because I still suffered from depression. I even agreed to an exorcism!

I can't shake the idea that people leave me because of me, so I kept trying to somehow make people want to stay. I have been so loved by many only to have that loved be yanked away from me. I desperately want to be loved and accepted. It consumes my every action. Even the goal of "getting better" is to hopefully to be able to learn how to not make people leave.

I am smart and I am aware, but that doesn't make me a genius. I actually consider it a curse. It's assumed I'm smart enough to figure all of this out, so why can't I just use all my knowledge? Knowing and doing are two different things. I know I should only eat X amount of carbs per meal, but the desire for the chocolate cake is still there. I know I should walk 10mins after every meal, but just taking a shower wears me out. So I know what I "should" be doing which just frustrates me even more because I'm not or can't.

But you're right. I'm trapping myself. My enemy has always been me. My war is with myself. That is so difficult!!! If either side wins, I still lose! The war is btwn my logic and emotions. Listening to both and balancing them is the key to my progress. It's like balancing on a log perched way above a canyon. One wrong move and you can die. So it's easier to just stop or, worst case, jump off.

I do also think you're right that I need to give myself a break. I think I'm going to make that my goal this week...to just allow myself to be. If I feel like sleeping, sleep. If I feel like crying, cry. If I feel like cleaning the whole house, then I'll clean. And if I run out of energy part way through, then I run out of energy. I think I need to stop analyzing and comparing. I think I need to stop worrying about progress, people, and time and just be aware that I am alive and the basic joys of life.

Well, it's hopeful thinking anyways.

I first read this as, "how to make other people behave". Kinda the same thing, and i think not really the point for your therapy?

One other thought - i am starting my exercise program with stretching. Just sitting on the floor and gently stretching hamstrings. Then getting back up (not easy!). All that is exercise enough, and is putting a spring in my step already. Need to get my marshmallow fluff muscles ready to support me walking.

Serious question and am not just trying to challenge you: you received praise from others about your writing. So wouldn't that be considered that your self-worth is still based off the opinions of others?

I know there are things I'm good at, but great at? I'm going to list them for the sake of showing my awareness:

*Math, writing, architecture design, listening, caring, organizing, encouraging, most things based in logic, some crafts...

Well, that's better than nothing

But most of that is based on other's opinions. I only consider my crafts, architecture, and writing good if others think so. I only know I'm good at caring, listening, and encouraging based upon the results of interacting with people. I know I'm good at math, but I never really made it to calculus. And I know I'm good at logic when I underand information that I have no real extensive knowledge in.

And if I can't pit these traits to use to help others, then what good are they? What good am I w/o being able to contribute somehow to a relationship. This is why I base my worth on how others perceive me.

I do understand that the goal is to find value within myself. But how? How do you truly and honestly find that value w/o the input of others? How do you believe it? Saying it is one thing, believing it is another. I'm not trying to frustrate you or anyone. I just don't understand how to get from point A to B. Is it really as simple as holding onto one belief even if the belief is reinforced by others? Is good, good enough?

Seems like your sense of self worth isnt constant, its dependent on the whims of others. Like if you were a migrant worker, if you got picked to work that day. Or a car salesperson, if you made that sale. There is no baseline sense of self worth?

I don't want to sound boring, but how are your sugars doing? I'm wondering if they are swinging around a bit, and making you feel worse?

I'm not sure how to address the internal self worth thing. I know that for me, I have aspects of myself that I hold in high regard - mostly around creativity - simply because. They just feel like bits of me, in the same way as my eye colour, or whatever. There has never been a time that they have not been part of who I am. But they have always been reinforced by family and teachers and friends and colleagues - virtually since I was born. I can't remember a time when I wasn't "IG, who is fantastic at x and y". As I think I mentioned on your other thread, I think you have to keep accepting that reassurance from others, seeing the reflection of your good traits, until it sinks in properly. I sure as hell have to do this with other big bits of myself.

I'm so sorry you're feeling this way. I don't think I have any helpful advice, because I am feeling much the same way. But I wanted you to know that you are not alone. I hope things get easier for you.

Yes, it's a pattern: black and white, all or nothing, push and pull. And it's difficult for me to get out of it. I try to not reach out to anyone because I'm afraid a "no" will trigger this cycle. But my T is trying to get me to reach out more because I can't do all of this on my own. I do need support. So I ask. I ask for the bare minimum and I'm always open to compromising. And being told "no" by one person will hurt, but I can survive it. Life happens, I do understand. I understand why everyone who has told me "no" recently has said it. Logically, I get that it's not personal. But I still feel abandoned. It wasn't one person who said "no", it was basically 4 people. I asked for the bare minimum. So all the support that was once in place isn't there.

As far as my fiance: that's complicated. For one, I didn't cause the situation today. The first time he called I did pick up the phone, I did tell him my T was worried because I'm extremely depressed. But I told him I didn't want to talk about it. There are many reasons why I didn't want to talk about it:

1. When I'm really emotional, he tends to make things worse by overreacting or getting angry. He often tries to "solve" my problems or starts insulting whoever I'm having a problem with. None of those things are helpful.
2. Today was the second time I drove to my T by myself. I only started driving again a year ago. I stopped driving 8 years ago due to a traumatic car accident. So talking about emotions and driving is not safe.
3. It's a 40min drive and again, not safe to be driving and hysterical.
4. I was in a state where I needed Ativan, but can't take that and drive.
5. I have a right to not want to talk about things even if someone else wants to talk about it. I have a right to take time to process it on my own or even try to calm myself down.

So I did the right thing by not picking up the other 9 phone calls from him. My T did wind up calling me and agreed I did the right thing. My job is to be honest about how I'm doing and to take care of myself. My job is not to console my fiance because he's freaking out. If I didn't pick up the phone the first time, okay, that would be wrong of me. But I did honestly tell him what was going on and clearly stated I was driving and didn't want to talk about it.

And for me, the types of support is not on a linear line, but in categories. So my family is a cluster, people here on PC is a cluster, if I had friends that would be a cluster, and women role models/professionals is a cluster. Each cluster provides a different type of support. There are also different generalized boundaries. Within each cluster, the different people provide me with different levels of support. So with my family clusters, my fiance and then my mom provide me with the most support while my older sister provides me with an itty-bitty amount. The problem right now is that all the professional women have withdrawn their support. So I do have support from my family and you all here on PC. I am extremely grateful. I have actually been receiving more support from both PC and my family during this difficult time and it has really really been helpful. But it doesn't change the fact that I am missing and yearning for this other type of emotional support. Does that make any sense?

And just to clarify, the 5-10mins of time I wanted specifically from my T and group facilitator. I didn't ever demand it at a certain time. With the facilitator, I asked for it on Wed or Thurs because that's the only time she works there. For my T, I asked fir a check-in "sometime this week". I didn't specify a date, time, or even method (i.e. email or call). I left it completely open. I also don't challenge them on their answers. I don't try to manipulate them or beg them into changing their minds. I accept their answer whether it's the one I hoped for or not.

But I am trying to not shut everyone out. I post here as a way to gain more supoort. I am open on here and try to take in all encouragement and suggestions. And when my fiance came home, I did allow him to comfort me even though I didn't really want it at the time (but it helped me). And when my mom called to check up on me and offered to take me out to dinner, I went even though I didn't even want to get out of bed.

And one example that I do value the support from here: nervous puppy responded to my previous thread saying that if I give up on myself then I'm just adding to the list of all the people who have abandoned me. That really sunk deep into me. And it's things like that, all the responses I have gotten on this thread and other posts, that helps me keep trying. It sustains me till I either am able to balance out my emotions or get the type of support I'm missing.

Not really Not currently at least.

Have you ever told your fiance that it is not helpful to you, when someone tries to "fix" your problems, that what you need is someone to listen and support you, with love? If you have already said this, it might be worth it to say it again.

Ummm.... I haven't been good with my carbs or exercise And by not good, I mean horrible. My sugars are probably super high. Yeah, that's not helping. And my fiance also reminded me tonight that it's almost "that time of the month". Poor guy.

Yep. I've told him multiple times, my T has told him, Pdoc, my mom, and even his T has now told him. This is partially why he is therapy. We've been together for 9 years and have endured a lot of verbal and emotional abuse. We are learning to cope with ourselves and each other. He has never been in therapy before and has only seen his T twice. So I can't expect changes over night. But he is trying to get better. He is learning to listen and respect what I say when it comes to my needs.

If your bloods are soaring and dropping a lot your moods will be terrible. I know you know this. But sometimes it can be helpful to remember that there can be a pure physiological aspect at work as well.

It does make sense. I can understand why it'd be a struggle for you, particularly with your fiance having his own concerns he's working on that are bleeding over to you. I see what you mean, that it wasn't a healthy support he was calling to offer but seeking to reassure himself. I think you did a really good job taking care of yourself in how you handled that.

I'm glad that you've been getting more support from family and PC during this particularly tough spell, even though you really want more support from your professional folks and it's not happening right now. Honestly, to me? Overall it sounds like you're doing a good job of handling it, even though it has to really, really suck.

You should be proud that you're back behind the wheel, and also proud that you went out to dinner. The fact that it was hard and yet you did it, is really impressive. Seriously, I work around serious car wrecks a lot, and just seeing them shakes me up. Getting back to driving after your experience takes a lot of guts. Driving to your appointment by yourself is really something.

On the question of self-worth. I'm not religious myself, but I still believe that there's something fundamentally right about the idea that we are all children of God. That we are worth something simply because we exist. Every one of us. We are living, breathing, thinking, feeling beings. It's not something I'm prepared to defend on a philosophical, rational basis. But I like it.

I like to think that I am worth something because I try to put out positive energy into the world. To make positive contributions. That whether or not someone else needs, accepts, desires this is independent from my positive intentions. In fact, if someone doesn't want any help from me, the best, most positive thing to do would be to respect his or her wishes. I find this to be the best way for me to feel good about myself based on what I do for others, without too closely tying it to other people's reactions and needs.

I have issues with my own religious/spiritual beliefs It might sound weird, but what I was taught when I was a teenager is conflicting with what I believe currently. I'm not at the point where I can sort through that mess. For me, believing in God is the only easy part. The rest of it is completely a jumble of contradicting ideas.

I'm perfectly okay with not everyone wanting my help or even to be a part of my life. I'm completely okay when acquaintances walk in and out of my life. But if I open up to someone, there is an understanding that the relationship is more than superficial.

When I was at the crisis house last year, I developed a connection with one of the counselors. I talked to this woman maybe 4 hours total? I asked her if we could keep in touch and she said she would have to ask her supervisor. I guess the answer was no because I didn't hear back from her. But the fact that she was willing, but also open that it might not be possible, that makes a difference. I miss this counselor still, but I do not feel abandoned or rejected by her. There have been people in my life who had to leave and I have not felt abandoned by them: my ex-T, best friend from jr. high, etc. The reason is that the boundaries of the relationship never changed. The expectations never changed.

The problem I deal with now is that the boundaries and/or expectations have changed with 3 out of the 4 people. I'm actually good with boundaries about 90% of the time. I rarely test them or challenge them. I have only pushed a boundary with my T once, but I have accidentally found 3 or 4 her boundaries. One makes no sense to me, but I still respect it. When people change the boundaries, they change the dynamic of the relationship. I can easily accept strict boundaries upfront, but not when they change and especially not over me asking for very little of them.

The group facilitator was supposed to provide me with a little extra support. My T asked her to, I asked her to, she said she would be honored to...yes, "honored". The expectation was a short check-in and nit even every week. Two weeks ago, she was supposed to check-in with me, but couldn't because a client who was in a difficult situation was taking his anger out on her. I was hurt, but understood. Then my T tells me to ask her for support last week because of how much I've been struggling and SI'ing, and all of a sudden it's a "no", "can't", "boundary"... The facilitator tells me to see my T, and my T tells me to fake being happy and use my coping skills! Can any of you who have attachment issues honestly say that this wouldn't hurt you? Am I really way off emotionally?

The professionals tell me I need more support and to ask, and when I do I'm told they can't. That's why I ask in my original post, is 5-10mins really too much to hope for? When I'm a client? When those expectations and boundaries were already agreed upon?

Maybe it's the culmination of everything: all 4 professionals, depression, sugars, and hormones, but it is what it is and I'm hurting. Maybe I'm not literally being abandoned, but I feel like I have been. How do I switch my perception and emotions w/o that support?

(((SP)))
Keep doing what you're doing -keep talking, make then understand. You're doing good SP!

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