I called.

I left him a message. Told him that I needed to check in; to engage myself a bit. Joked about breaking the '10 PM boundary'-- said I knew it was the only way he'd get me to call. Asked him to leave me a voicemail tomorrow-- told him that I didn't want to talk to him; that I would explain on Friday-- that a message would be good enough.

I don't want to talk with him because I feel like it's pointless right now-- that I will talk with him for a few minutes, and then the disconnect will start all over again. I want to keep a safe distance to protect myself from the attachment. A message will do. I just want a message.

I want to make sure all this still exists.
I am not sure how I feel right now.

i was reading your previous post about wanting to call...and then this one. i'm intrigued about what seems to be a difficulty with calling your T, for reasons I don't want to assume.

But i'm intrigued about the outcome and your thoughts and feelings....because i'm back and forth about restarting my therapy again after a two month break...and I notice a great hesitancy about wanting to even bring up the subject in a phone call again with my therapist, because i brought it up a month ago and because we are still dealing with some insurance issues (insurance are starting a review of services)....and i just fear she will reject me. i have no proof she will reject me, but i fear it, and I'm awful with phone calls. i usually feel bad after a phone call with her because she is not there and it is always "too short". (i do better in-person).

i fear calling because i fear her rejecting me.

but anyway. i'm intrigued because it seems like i'm not the only one who has issues with feeling a "need" to call the T (even sometimes right after session). so, it perhaps means some people have worked through it, to some extent.

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pinksoil said:
I left him a message. Told him that I needed to check in; to engage myself a bit. Joked about breaking the '10 PM boundary'-- said I knew it was the only way he'd get me to call. Asked him to leave me a voicemail tomorrow-- told him that I didn't want to talk to him; that I would explain on Friday-- that a message would be good enough.

I don't want to talk with him because I feel like it's pointless right now-- that I will talk with him for a few minutes, and then the disconnect will start all over again. I want to keep a safe distance to protect myself from the attachment. A message will do. I just want a message.

I want to make sure all this still exists.
I am not sure how I feel right now.

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You know...if he leaves you a message... you will be able to listen to it when you need to for comfort. Would that comfort you to have your own special message from him. Might that help you with the connect or the disconnect?

And yes I understand that this was a compromise of sorts.... but that YOU DID IT. I am dancing a happy dance for you Pink but know that you are possibly feeling unsettled.

Don't you feel like you have just about made a touchtown in your work with your T. I am proud of you and hope that you will allow yourself a glimmer (at minimum) of being proud of yourself.

YAY Pink.

He just left me a message back. It was the crappiest message I have ever heard. I am angry right now, angry at him, hating him. How the %#@&#! is that supposed to help me feel connected? I see him tomorrow, and I don't want to %#@&#! talk about this. No. %#@&#! that.

((Pinksoil))

You are so brave....

Well heck... what kind of message was it?

This therapy stuff... it is ROUGH...

((Pinksoil))

pinksoil, I'm so sorry. Do you think it was better to receive a crappy message than to not have him call back?

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pinksoil said:
He just left me a message back. It was the crappiest message I have ever heard. I am angry right now, angry at him, hating him. How the %#@&#! is that supposed to help me feel connected? I see him tomorrow, and I don't want to %#@&#! talk about this. No. %#@&#! that.

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Oh no! I'm sorry. This is another one of those 'he shouldn't make promises he can't keep'...

or is it another test? I hate this process...

He said...

"I'll see you tomorrow @ 5:00. You left a message and said you didn't want to talk, and that's fine... so I'll see you tomorrow, Friday, @ 5:00"

WHAT THE %#@&amp;#!?? Am I an idiot? Do we have to state the obvious???? I don't know what I was expecting, I don't know. I am so mad at him right now; it's going to be one hell of a session tomorrow. I wanted him to say something else. That he's still here. That of course we are still in therapy together. Those things aren't obvious to me. I swear to God, I want to throw things at him. Now I have to embarrass myself further in session tomorrow by telling him all the things I wish he had said. Nice. I hope I can really let go to tell him what an %#@&amp;#! I think he is for that lame message. That's what I want to do.

Editing and calming down for one minute to tell you all thank you for your support. Don't know how I would get through without all of your posts.

And Sunny-- It probably would have been worse for me if he didn't call back-- but you know what? I wish I never called in the first place. I know that sometimes he provokes me to get mad, but this time I'm really, really %#@&amp;#! mad. And I don't know that this was provocation-- maybe it's just the way he is. I know that in the end, I will learn something from this. That although it didn't help to connect me, something will come of it....BUT RIGHT NOW I JUST REALLY, REALLY %#@&amp;#! HATE HIM.

Oh Pinksoil, I remember last yr not being able to make it to my session after a 2 week break and T emailed me back asking if I would like a email session instead? I can't remember exactly what was going on or what I had said to her in the original email to her but I remmeber turning down her invite to email her for the missed monday session in a rather of hand way and she replied "Fine, I'll see you friday then" Geez that word "fine" I felt terrified, like I had fristly exposed my evil side and secondly that i had pissed her off for life :-( the next day I wrote a sorry email and she replied that there was no need to apologise and that she would see me friday! man did I feel bad and man do I NEVER want to see that word "FINE" again!

Sorry Pink... I know I was nudging you... but I am glad that you called... really. Sometimes T's can be buttheads.... or buffalos or sometimes like men....oh did I say that?

I think that you called wishing for a positive connection and that he flicked over to T....not friend as you might have hoped for. Good news.... He did call you back.... Bad News...is that it is not what you had hoped for.

Pink...I would have hoped for more too in your situation but I think I have experienced similar in the past. This one would not even call me except in an emergency... but our goals are different....

BUT... He has been encouraging you to call and talk or leave a message...and you did. Good for you. Now go share your thoughts. I think you are loaded and ready to tell him about it. He will be ready for you....but maybe a bit clueless.

If he had an angle, then I understand it (I think). Maybe he was trying to remind me that, yes, I am going to see him. He was making it realistic for me, reminding me that I will be there tomorrow. But it wasn't what I wanted. I wanted him to tell me that he is still my T. And if that is what he was trying to do, then I hate the way he said it. I know I am difficult, I know that. He often can't win with me. No one can. Transference. Transference of all the people in my life who have never said enough. And they continue to never say enough.

I hate getting upset at work.

He told you that but in a minimal way.... see you at 5 tomorrow. Tell him what you just wrote. What you said here is valid. Some T's like to give you what you want and some like to cut the fluff. I thought your T was semi fluff. Where do you think he is in all of this?

Maybe he does not know you need more.....or maybe he is trying to touch your anger.

Someone told me yesterday that her T asked her something about her expectations for something and after going through all that... the T said... your expectations are too high. Well that ticked her off but gave her something for the next session.... so .... so... do ..... you.

I too hate getting upset at work. Hope you have a door to close.... sigh.

Pinksoil!

I'm glad you called him but sorry it wasn't what you wanted. I would guess that it was a bit confusing since you said you didn't want to talk. So he checked in with you -- to the extent possible without talking! Yeah it'd be nicer if he said more, but he may have thought you didn't want him to. That's the way I'd read it anyway. Mine can't read my mind either.

I'll be happy to hear my therapist's voice. He hasn't called me back, but I'm sure he will (just dunno when). I suck with phone conversations though. And of course I'm feeling better now so I'm kind of wishing I hadn't called either. But hopefully it was okay.

Sidony

p.s... I am not saying your expectations are too high...

just talk it out. You know the relavence... should he? I hope?

Pink, I understand completely. My goals are different than yours are(me the hysterical, obsessive and dependent traits chick!). However, my T like yours, knows how to push our buttons and they are doing it...

Here is what I think: He knows what kind of response you needed and wanted. But he's not going to give it to you. Why?? I think what we are supposed to be learning from this awful process is that we somehow need to get comfy with the fact that most people in our lives will be there for us but perhaps not in the way we would like them to be. I'm guessing we are supposed to accept that most people do the best they can and their inaction should not derail us and make us unhappy or mad. In fact, some of them may not be doing it on purpose.

I guess they are trying to teach us to hold our own so to speak? I mean I've said a million times, I wish I wasn't so needy, I wish I didn't care what my dad thinks or mom. I wish I could go on and be happy anyway because I'm alive, the sun is shining and all the happiness and joy we want is within our reach. We just need to knock down a few walls first.

My T is making himself sort of unavailable the way I need him to be available. He won't respond to my calls or faxes etc. and I'm supposed to get comfy with this. I'm not 100% comfy at all but I think I'm seeing something in myself.

Your T (I think...) is telling you, "I'm here" but I'm not going to leave you a gushy message. I'm just going to let you know that I am your T and not leaving you. I think that is what he meant by 'see you tomorrow at 5:00'. I don't think it matters much what your message was to him, he planned on saying what he said...

My T, if he did call me (and he wouldn't) probably wouldn't even know when I was going to see him next...he would never say 'see you at 5:00 tomorrow' he'd say 'see you next time'...that is what he usually says.

Feel free to throw something at me and tell me I have this all wrong...but then tell me my T is going to CALL ME BACK!

Hope you won't throw tomatoes at me, pinksoil, but the message seemed OK to me. You told him you didn't need to talk to him, but just wanted to check in, and a voice mail from him would be fine. So he left you a brief voicemail. Maybe he thinks he did just what you were asking him to, that that was all you needed. I'm not sure I would have picked up that you wanted him to tell you he was still your T, that he was still there, etc. from your message: "Told him that I needed to check in; to engage myself a bit. Joked about breaking the '10 PM boundary'-- said I knew it was the only way he'd get me to call. Asked him to leave me a voicemail tomorrow-- told him that I didn't want to talk to him; that would explain on Friday-- that a message would be good enough." It sounds to me like he indeed said those things by acknowledging you have an appointment with him tomorrow. You told him all you needed was a message and you got one. I think they just can't read our minds, well maybe in session somewhat, but not over voicemail without the visual cues. I think he was not trying to make you mad. But could be wrong. You know your T! I will be curious to hear from you what he says in your session tomorrow. Maybe we should start a pool.

Hang in there, pink.

Well, "see you tomorrow @ 5:00" sounds to me like a way of saying "I'm still your T".

I think it was a caring message; he respected your wish to not talk and he reminded you he is still there for you and will be there tomorrow at 5:00, too.

I think you think you can control him/people? Might be an interesting topic for a session or three?

I'm sorry you're feeling so uneasy and hurting. I know you and T will sort it out because you have sorted out so much already. You report excellent sessions and I truly hope tomorrow is another excellent session for you!

ECHOES

sometimes in the past when i have called my therapist, it has been infuriating and troubling and depressing to receive either: no message back or not the message back i really wanted from my therapist.

...but what we eventually tried to understand, or I tried to understand, was that i needed to speak my needs. if i said to my therapist: "you don't need to call back" then I had to mean it. If I said: "i need you to call me back", i tried to understand that i wasn't her only client and circumstances might be that she can't get back to me in as timely a fashion I would like. and all the while, I try to remind myself that my therapist's responsiveness and the character of her response does not reflect on my own worth.

so, for me, it has been about speaking my needs and learning to speak them true, and get in touch with what i really want. it is hard as heck to do it and not get upset with her if she doesn't respond how I want or when i want.

all this said....i don' t know if any of it applies to your situation. i just wanted to share my two cents on the subject of calling one's therapist.

OK, now that I have calmed down (barely), I can say that I see what you are all saying. I left him a message, and stated that I wanted to check-in. I told him in the message, that I did not want to talk with him on the phone. I asked him to leave me a message back. The results were: he left me a message back. Ok. Got it. Perhaps I put him in a weird position? Like he didn't know what to say. Obviously he wasn't going to say, "Call me back" or "I'll try you later," like he normally does when I call him and he gets my voicemail-- because I told him I didn't want to talk. Two times he said, "I will see you tomorrow night, Friday, at 5." Maybe he was just really trying to stress: don't worry, do not disconnect, it is true, things exist, you will see me tomorrow."

Whatever the case is, the important thing is that this obviously ticked me off big time. And I need to go with that. Because that's what's important-- the emotional reaction. And I need to figure out what it is I want from him, and why he makes me so mad.

Before class tonight, I tried to think about why I was mad-- okay, because he didn't give me what I want. Well, what do I want? I basically wanted him to hold me through the phone. To say something so beautiful to remind me that we were still connected. Something I would never forget. Instead I got, "See you tomorrow."

And then the transference. In my life, I have always wanted people to say more, and not just ignore what's going on with me just because they are afraid to deal with it, or they don't understand. When he left that message, it angered me so much because it reminded me of that.

Tomorrow's session should be an unforgettable one. Sigh.

<font color="green">I wonder.... did you tell your therapist that you wanted him to say he is still your therapist? Did you tell him just what you needed to hear? Therapists are many wonderful things but they are not mind readers.

I know it is hard to this and I know how hard it was to call at all. I think for what you have said you asked for your therapist has probably done his best.

Perhaps you could ask him to make a tape for you? then you have something that might be closer to what you want and can play it any time. </font>

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And I need to figure out what it is I want from him

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I think this is very important and worthy of a lot of thought and journaling. When you figure it out, you can tell him, and maybe he can provide. Or maybe he can't. But I think just knowing what you want will be therapeutic. My T has asked me before, early on, what is it I want from him. This was in the context of our dream analysis and it took me a while to figure it out, and I was able to tell him in a symbolic, dream-like way. Later in session he did something that fulfilled what I wanted, without knowing it, and I almost exclaimed "eureka," that's what I was talking about, that's what I wanted. It was a peak moment. And he was so glad to know, in a concrete way, WTH I had been talking about. At other times, he has said he wants me to tell him my needs, do I want more, less, etc. I was bowled over by someone asking me to tell them my needs, as I had never heard that request before and didn't know I could tell someone my needs, that it was permissible. I am not that great at it, but I try. And now that we are doing a bit of couples therapy, I have told him in advance what I want from the experience, and in particular what I am hoping to get from my husband by bringing him to therapy with me. T works hard in session with us, to bring this on home for me, as I've told him what I need from my husband. I think, through therapy, I am learning better how to tell people my needs. I never ever did before. This abililty in me is still in its infancy, but I see how powerful it can be. Risky, yes, but powerful in helping to establish connection and meaning with others. I wonder why no one ever told me, decades ago, how valuable telling people your needs can be? Why isn't there some kind of manual of essential knowledge that we are given at birth that we can refer to as we grow up and develop? Why did no one ever tell me before to tell people my needs? Then I could have been learning and practicing this all along instead of now just coming to it as a newbie in my 40s. I have so been missing out. I guess as a young'un, my needs were not met and so it became scary to even let people know I had needs for fear of rejection. I am trying to let go of that way of being!

Sorry for the digression! Your posts are often so thought-provoking, pink, that I can't help but run off with my musings.

Thanks for your post, Sunny. My session is in an hour and a half. My emotions are reeling between being angry at him, realizing what he was trying to do, reading tons of McWillams, highlighting and bookmarking what I want to share with him, and finally, the reality hitting me that in a half-hour, I will no longer be a full-time employee for the next year due to my internship. I'm sort of freaking out about everything right now, about T, about how I am going to pay my bills, about how my life is going to change starting next week. I want to tell him what i need. Or at least tell him what I want. Because he is not necessarily going to be able to give me what I want (be with him every minute, sit in his lap, lol), but it's important to be honest... and hopefully he can modify what I want so at the very least, it's appropriate, lol Sigh. Wow. What a session this is going to be. I am going to give it everything I've got.