[LonesomeTonight]

Very brief background: I see an individual T and a marriage counselor. I have a bit of maternal transference for my T and quite a bit of paternal (with maybe a little erotic, though much less than before) for my MC. They both know about it. Had a few individual sessions with MC back in March to discuss and address it.

I recently felt a random need for more reassurance from MC. Had a phone call from him Friday where he made me feel good and secure. During that call, I shared that I love him (in a paternal rather than romantic way, but may not have clarified that enough at the time). Also told T last week that I love her (just maternal way). Had kinda weird joint session with H and MC Monday that led me to leaving voicemail asking MC to call me. We talked today for a half hour, and he seemed to change his tune from Friday, being much less reassuring. I'd said I wanted another individual session with him (H is OK with it) to work through the transference, but he was extremely resistant, basically acting like because I felt like I needed it, then I shouldn't have it. He thought I would just be seeking reassurance from him, which wouldn't be beneficial. I shared that it hurt me and I felt rejected (topic came up Friday), he acted like it would be a learning experience for me, that feeling the pain would help me grow. Which of course hurt like hell, especially since I'd just expressed love for him and have some fear of abandonment that we just recently discussed, including on Friday. (He's still fine seeing H and I together.)

When talked to my T later tonight (called her upset), she said that I'm in a "complicated situation" (since it's MC rather than an individual T). She also said that if someone is feeling transference, then they shouldn't be given reassurance because that will just reinforce the transference. My T also recently told me (in response to my question) that she hugs some clients but won't hug me because I have maternal transference, and she doesn't want to reinforce that.

This seems to contradict a bit with what I've read on how T's should deal with transference. Note that this is a psychoanalytic MC (and T), rather than psychodynamic (which I think uses transference more in therapy). I'm just curious, for those experiencing transference of any kind (maternal, paternal, erotic, etc.) for their T, how has the T handled the transference on a more long-term basis? Is it just discussed a few times then done? Talked about regularly? Did your T seem to pull back from offering reassurance or anything else? Other stuff?

[Leah123]

I'm sorry your therapy has gotten so complicated and your T is having trouble helping you work through it.

I'm very fortunate to be with my therapist, who also has a Marriage and Family therapy background, but who embraces the transference with a great deal of caring, sympathy and empathy. She's really met me right where I am and made therapy a welcoming place for me to feel mothered. By mothered I mean:

Giving hugs when I ask for them (virtual hugs because we're doing distance therapy, but she says she gives hugs in person too as clients request them.)
Occasionally reading me stories or poems so I can listen to her voice for comfort or to help with anxiety
Telling me how proud of me she is when I make progress in therapy or life (doing better self-care, speaking up for myself, graduating college)
Consistently being there for me, whether I want to talk to her evenings, weekends, daytimes
Telling me she cares about me deeply when I ask for reassurance.

You asked how we deal with it- well, she encourages me to share all my feelings, including those transference related ones. Many of them are maternal transference, mostly positive, others more complex, and we discuss them as needed, both the source of them, and working through the pain, as well as her trying to meet my requests as best as possible. It was more prominent last year, and now that we've been doing this intensive therapy for most of 2.5 years, we really don't need to talk about it anymore, though I can whenever I want to. We did several sessions a week the first 18 months, and now 2 per week, so.. it moved pretty fast.

I will say, I don't believe this type of... this level of engagement in the transference is an everyday occurrence, though I do know a lot of practitioners do believe in this general type of work, in therapy as a limited corrective experience for difficult parenting situations. And many, from different schools of therapy, that embrace transference work to give insight into a clients issues, which doesn't though, mean fulfilling the clients desires for the relationships, but just accepting the transference more purely as a learning/insight tool.

I'm very glad to be in a place where I could establish the relationship with my T that I have, I think it was a unique combination of circumstances that made it possible.

P.S. I really don't believe there is an established, agreed-upon "should" as to exactly how a therapist should handle transference, so... I wouldn't necessarily... go into it with certain expectations. There are lots of different opinions on it, from... ignore it, quash it, examine it, embrace it, to making it the all-encompassing focus of therapy and variations on those.

[Leah123]

P.P.S. I am sorry he took that learning through pain approach, but theoretically, I believe that approach is quite common and even well-supported in some psychoanalytical thought, that the goal is to let the client experience the pain of not having that father figure, in order to grieve the true loss and move forward, rather than trying to supplant what was missed through reassurance which can't fill the need.

The focus there can be letting you get in touch with those longings, frustrations, anxieties, etc. and then moving toward a place where you accept the shortcoming and learn to parent yourself and find other resources.

[junkDNA]

im sorry. i told my T i loved him in a parental way. he said he was touched and that it wasnt wrong. i was very scared to tell him this given my history, and i was scared it was wrong. i feel better that i told him. he hasnt changed in any way since ive told him. hes even given me a hug since then. i dont hug him much but i was having a hard time. my T is psychodynamic and a bunch of other things. i can see the complication with your paternal transference being with your MC. have you thought about finding a new one? i know thats hard to do though. just throwing out options

[growlycat]

I'm wondering if his refusal to reassure has more to do with not reinforcing anxiety rather than transference.

I'm finding that my CBT T does not reassure, seems to avoid it. Reading up on anxiety and OCD (I'm not OCD) it seems that therapists feel that reassurance makes these things worse. I'm trying to view it not as rejection but a therapeutic tactic.

I found this:

The Problem with Reassurance

So why is reassurance such a big deal? To put it in clinical terms, when an individual seeks reassurance, they reinforce that they are unable to tolerate the discomfort of the uncertainty they are experiencing. At the same time, they reinforce that the best way to alleviate the discomfort of that uncertainty is to compulsively seek reassurance.

Concurrently, reassurance as a behavior sends the message to the brain that whatever unwanted thought set these events into motion must be terribly significant. “If he goes through all of this just to know for sure, then this thought must be really important!”

Finally, reassurance is addictive. If reassurance were a substance, it would be considered right up there with crack cocaine. One is never enough, a few makes you want more, tolerance is constantly on the rise, and withdrawal hurts. In other words, people with OCD and related conditions who compulsively seek reassurance get a quick fix, but actually worsen their discomfort in the long term.

Reassurance Seeking in OCD and Anxiety | OCD Center of Los Angeles

[LonesomeTonight]

Thanks for the responses and support. That OCD thing is interesting because I do have OCD and anxiety, and my individual T was saying today that my anxiety probably is playing a role in the transference and my need for reassurance.
I'll write more tomorrow (well, today I guess, but it's 3:30 a.m. here, and I should try to go back to sleep).

[Lauliza]

I agree that both Ts are trying to help you "sit" with your anxiety. If either were to give reassurance when you ask because they know you are uncomfortable, yet able to handle it, they'd end up creating unnecessary dependence on them. I think transference is a great tool to help when we have relationship issues outside therapy, and a lot of therapist's limit how much they'll give outside the office in order to reflect real life situations.

There's some unskilled practitioners out there.

[Soccer mom]

I think your T. is handling it in your best interest. There are many T's who will fulfill the parental role - reassure/validate/comfort/be affectionate and then there are many who don't. I think it has to do with the client's needs/personality, the T's temperament and the issues. Unfortunately, none of us are you, with your Ts and your issues so we might not have the best advice. I used to ask people how their T's dealt with it and compare it to my T. It really hurt our relationship and made it hard for me to trust my T.

I have MET with my T. who does not reassure or validate. She never has and it comes up quite often. She won't validate because she doesn't think I should rely on others to know if my feelings are acceptable. She asked me last session why I need someone to tell me how to feel. It's very tough but I understand why she doesn't. And, I do think if she reassured often I would seek it a lot more. She does reassure every once in awhile but not usually when I'm flat out asking for it.

I came to a conclustion about a month ago that might help you in the long run. I realized that I was stuck focusing on the transference instead of the actual reason for being in therapy. After a year of discussing the transference I realized that it felt "good" to discuss it (the connection and postiive feelings towards someone else even if it felt very irrational and overwhelming) but I didn't feel good talking about my mom. I found that when I talked about my mom, my T. usually challenged me and i wouldn't feel the connection - it would stir up all the negative feelings inside me.

I don't think you're there yet. I know how overwhelming it can all feel and how immediate it feels to want to talk all about these crazy feelings. So, to answer your question my T. let me talk about it for a year. But, it would be related to my mom. So, a conversation might go like me telling her that I felt she was frustrated last session with me and then we would relate it to my mom and my past. Early on it was all about my needs and how she couldn't fulfill them - she can't be my mom. There were so many days of tears and longing. I would think of something I wanted my T. to do (tell me she cares), realize it's something my mom didn't give me and then cry for a few days. It was awful but I think I was mourning not only what I didn't get but also what I won't get from my T. I have to seek that out in someone else or within my self.

We are talking a lot more about my mom but the transference probably still comes up every session. Last session she was challenging me on forgiving my mom. I felt horrible and shut down. I've now realized that I felt like she was telling me to forgive so I wouldn't have to come any more to therapy - that she didn't want to deal with me anymore. Typical mom stuff (abandonment) which I plan to discuss next week.

And, it's like there are two parts of the transference. The "in love" part towards my T. and then the way I react to her due to my mom. She once told me that my feelings towards her are probably part transference and part just feelings towards her. Hang in there. As you figure things out - why you're having these feelings, what roles your T's are filling from your past, it will get easier to manage. I do think it's important that they listen to you and accept the transference. And, it is a huge too for them to work with and a large way for you to learn about yourself!

[WrkNPrgress]

Originally Posted by growlycat

I'm wondering if his refusal to reassure has more to do with not reinforcing anxiety rather than transference.

I'm finding that my CBT T does not reassure, seems to avoid it. Reading up on anxiety and OCD (I'm not OCD) it seems that therapists feel that reassurance makes these things worse. I'm trying to view it not as rejection but a therapeutic tactic.

I found this:

The Problem with Reassurance

So why is reassurance such a big deal? To put it in clinical terms, when an individual seeks reassurance, they reinforce that they are unable to tolerate the discomfort of the uncertainty they are experiencing. At the same time, they reinforce that the best way to alleviate the discomfort of that uncertainty is to compulsively seek reassurance.

Concurrently, reassurance as a behavior sends the message to the brain that whatever unwanted thought set these events into motion must be terribly significant. “If he goes through all of this just to know for sure, then this thought must be really important!”

Finally, reassurance is addictive. If reassurance were a substance, it would be considered right up there with crack cocaine. One is never enough, a few makes you want more, tolerance is constantly on the rise, and withdrawal hurts. In other words, people with OCD and related conditions who compulsively seek reassurance get a quick fix, but actually worsen their discomfort in the long term.

Reassurance Seeking in OCD and Anxiety | OCD Center of Los Angeles

Just an opinion here: I'm not terribly familiar with OCD and it's treatments but I've never read anything like this. Perhaps some people can never be satisfied because of various issues, and perhaps someone with OCD would feel the need to obsessively seek out that "Do you like me?" reminder from someone the way the need to 'check the stove' (stereotypical example) but ... is basic affirmation a drug? Really?

I'm side-eyeing this whole concept of comparing basic reassurance —*an instinctive need — with something so taboo as drugs. There must be better ways to address the need without wronging it.

[nicoleflynn]

I dislike the term transference/countertransference.....just fancy words for....feelings......it is present in most relationships. I have loved my t for many years, and told him about it a long time ago. It was handled beautifully. Unfortunately, he had feelings for me also...long story.

[unaluna]

I dont know what the OP wants to be reassured about? Its not exactly reassuring to talk about transference fantasies - its more the opposite for me. It eventually becomes reassuring in that i become more reality based and make better decisions for myself, take better care of myself.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by hankster

I dont know what the OP wants to be reassured about? Its not exactly reassuring to talk about transference fantasies - its more the opposite for me. It eventually becomes reassuring in that i become more reality based and make better decisions for myself, take better care of myself.

To answer this question (because it's quicker to respond to than some of the other posts!): Basically be reassured that he is there for me and won't reject me, even if I express my true self and feelings/emotions to him. From the time we started seeing him about 2 years ago (it's been off and on since then), he's someone I've felt particularly "safe" with, moreso even than my individual T. Since the transference surfaced like 6-7 months ago, felt a little less safe, worried about how he'd react if he knew my feelings (which at the time were probably more erotic than paternal, or at least I thought so).

When I shared those feelings with him in March, it was scary, because would he push me away and say he couldn't work with me anymore because of them? But he was accepting and normalizing about the feelings. For some reason, in the past couple weeks, I felt more need for reassurance. I think maybe because I realized that I love him (more paternal at this point), which scared me and tends to be a scary emotion for me. So I wanted him to know that and that he still accepted me and wouldn't push me away after being honest with him.

When we talked Friday, when I confessed the love feelings, it felt like he was being very accepting, telling me he wasn't going anywhere, wouldn't reject me, etc. Then after our conversation yesterday, I no longer feel safe with him and feel like what he said then contradicted what he said Friday and that he's trying to push me away.

And much of this goes back to some stuff in my past, like much transference does, with being abandoned by another "male authority figure" (not my dad) around when I was 18. But also my dad was never emotionally available to me when I was younger, plus both he and my mom seemed to reject the parts of me that had mental illness (anxiety, OCD, and later, depression), so I didn't really feel accepted in my feelings and myself by my parents.

So I guess I'm sort of hoping to heal that part of myself now through this relationship with MC by working through it, but now I feel like I'm not being allowed to do that, if that makes sense. Yes, I can talk to my T about stuff, but much of what I read about transference suggests that you should work with the object of the transference about it.

OK, that was much longer than I meant it to be...

[RedSun]

We didn't dwell on mine, though T tried.
Mine seems over now. I thought that today. That my T was being lovely, and helpful, and looked beautiful, but all in a totally okay way. Ahh, to be free!

[Ellahmae]

I bring it up when I need to. I write her ridiculous letters full of feels on occassion just because I have to get out what I'm feeling because I don't understand it. She reassures me everytime I ask if she's going to be there or is there even if it's more than once a day. She doesn't just reassure me in word she also goes over the ways that she has shown it. We have a long therapy road ahead of us and for my treatment it greatly depends on trust and the relationship, so I'm sure in 4 years from now if I need reassurance daily again, she'd gladly give it.

[LonesomeTonight]

OK, this is incredibly long, but in the interest of maybe explaining more, here's the e-mail/novella I sent to MC last night (with any identifying details like names and sports teams removed):
Hi MC,
Just got off the phone with T, who helped talk me through some of the emotions I'm feeling. Figured I'd try to send a more rational e-mail to counter the voicemail. Here are a few thoughts, in no particular order:

--Abandonment: I've shared some stuff about fear of abandonment with you, including regarding paternal figures. Yes, I know you're not abandoning me in the sense that you are still willing to see H and me for sessions. However, it still stirs up those emotions in me when I say that I'd like to meet with you, and you tell me no (despite the fact that on Friday, you said it wasn't about what you were comfortable with, it was what I'm comfortable with).

--The L-word: When I said I loved you, I meant it in a more paternal/platonic sense. I told T I loved her last week, too. I'm trying to be open and honest with my emotions instead of holding them inside and worrying how people would react if they knew. With regards to you, I still feel vulnerable about it. I don't just tell people (aside from H and daughter and my parents) that all the time. (it was a big, scary deal when I told it via text to a friend of mine a few months ago, and she and I have been friends for years). Some of the stuff you said today was especially painful for me in light of the fact that I just shared those feelings with you. Like, I was letting myself be particularly vulnerable with you, and now I'm feeling pushed away.

--Neediness: I've talked about (including Friday) being afraid of needing people. Yet I've admitted to you that I feel like I need to talk to you. So I'm being vulnerable in saying that I feel that need. However, you seemed to say today that feeling like I needed that indicated that I shouldn't meet with you. When I said it was painful that you said that, you implied that I should just deal with the pain, as it would make me stronger. It felt like you knew I was hurting, but just continued to make it more painful. (You also compared it to a breakup you'd had, which did not help with the whole abandonment thing.) Sometimes, I just feel some inexplicable need for something, and it isn't until later that I find out why I needed it.I think this is one of those things.
--Tough love vs. a softer approach: I feel like you were trying to do the tough love thing on me today, when on Friday, you seemed particularly compassionate and caring. It almost feels like some sort of bait and switch, even though I'm sure you didn't intend it to be that way. I'm not used to you using that approach (that's more T’s territory!), so it kind of threw me. I know you don't want me to get caught up in some vicious cycle of needing reassurance from you, but I'm feeling especially vulnerable right now, so it's hard.
No right answer/devil's advocate: In the last part of the conversation, it seemed like anything I said as a reason I wanted to meet with you (or felt upset about you saying no), you had an answer for that showed why it was a reason that I shoudn't meet with you. I felt like anything I said was somehow proof that you should stay away from me.I guess what I should have said was, "I'd rather meet with anyone, even [politician I hate or your favorite sports team’s biggest rival’s best player], instead of you!" and then you would have gotten out your calendar.
Really, I would have been completely content if you'd just said, "Meet with T for a while, see how things go, see if you're able to work through things with her. If, say, in a month you still feel like you want to meet, we can consider it then." But it just felt like you refused to say that.

Ultimately, it just felt like I was being pushed away, which triggered the abandonment feelings, especially because I was just open and vulnerable with you about my feelings. I was in pain, and I felt like you thought it was OK because I'd learn from it. And yes, I know therapy can be painful--trust me!--this just felt extra difficult in the moment because of what you were saying and how you were saying it and how you just seemed to be pushing more and more.

So, I think that kind of covers it...I just want help getting through this and processing things, that's all.
If you could just confirm that you got this, just via e-mail or even shoot me a text (don't worry--I won't start texting you!), that would be good. If you want to talk via phone about it at some point, that's fine too (phone no.). Or we could talk Monday (I've talked to H about all this), too. But I'd just like to know you got it, cause it's kinda long.
OK, thanks for reading.
LT

[Leah123]

THAT is a fabulous letter. I think it's wonderful for therapy because it's honest, fair not overly blaming or rationalizing, vulnerable, clear. I've always gotten good results with letters like that in my therapy with my current T, I hope you do too!

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by Leah123

THAT is a fabulous letter. I think it's wonderful for therapy because it's honest, fair not overly blaming or rationalizing, vulnerable, clear. I've always gotten good results with letters like that in my therapy with my current T, I hope you do too!

Thanks, Leah! I tend to express myself better in writing (I have an English degree) than in speaking. Plus writing it out helps me figure out and organize my thoughts. Glad it didn't sound like I was placing too much blame--pretty sure the voicemail I left him right after our call yesterday did! So I was trying to sort of take the rational approach with this one. I just hope that MC reads it and at least tries to understand...

[unaluna]

Is it just me thats not getting it? Or your ts. You wanted to switch to individual t with your MC. Your ts said no. Now youre trying to get single sessions, almost like a workaround. Its like theyre being parental and saying, oh no we see thru your trickery. I wouldnt play that game with them.

I personally dont think theres anything wrong with wishing your h was more like your mc. Where else are we going to learn how to be treated right? Thats what i feel my t has done. You feel you have a better rapport with mc than t. I wish they could see that their role is not to further deprive you, but to better serve their customer. I think thats what my t would do. Maybe you need to make it clear that yes you are saying erotic transference but you are NOT looking to jump anyones bones. I had to make sure my t understood that too.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by hankster

Is it just me thats not getting it? Or your ts. You wanted to switch to individual t with your MC. Your ts said no. Now youre trying to get single sessions, almost like a workaround. Its like theyre being parental and saying, oh no we see thru your trickery. I wouldnt play that game with them.

I personally dont think theres anything wrong with wishing your h was more like your mc. Where else are we going to learn how to be treated right? Thats what i feel my t has done. You feel you have a better rapport with mc than t. I wish they could see that their role is not to further deprive you, but to better serve their customer. I think thats what my t would do. Maybe you need to make it clear that yes you are saying erotic transference but you are NOT looking to jump anyones bones. I had to make sure my t understood that too.

Hankster--Sorry, leaving out some of the backstory here, so makes sense if you don't get it! When I first told MC about my transference in March, we had a couple individual sessions (with my H's OK) to work through it. At the end of the second (and last) individual session, he told me his door was always open to me, if I wanted to meet with him again. So that's part of what I'm referring to.

There was one time, like 9 months ago, before I realized the transference was going on, and I was mad at my individual T about something, that I asked him if I could have a couple individual sessions with him to work through some of my personal stuff. At the time, he said no, that he'd feel better if I just worked with my individual T. But then when the transference came up, he was completely willing to work with me.

At first, it was partly erotic, partly paternal, so yes, there was a bit of comparison with H. But I feel like now it's just paternal. I'm just confused at how MC is acting toward me now, especially in light of our conversation Friday where he was very caring and reassuring. Really, all I'm asking for right now is just to have another individual session with him, which he implied was OK on Friday, if I preferred that over a phone call. Also, I'm not sure why a phone conversation (we've had two half hour ones in the past week--we don't normally talk on the phone) is OK, but not an in-person meeting, where there's less room for misunderstanding since you see body language/facial expression. Like, maybe he couldn't tell how upset I was on the phone yesterday, but in person, it would have been obvious. Plus, then he'd be paid for his time if I come to the office!

I'm hoping we can come to a resolution, because he's someone I like having in my life, and he generally makes me feel very safe and cared for.

(Note that my husband is aware of what's up, so nothing underhanded going on.)

[Soccer mom]

Perhaps as you feel he couldn't fully understand you via phone, he feels you might not fully understand him? Many many many times I have misunderstood my T due to the transference. I see what she says in a negative light and she has to reword it or really explain it for me to see it in a normal light. We have only talked on the phone once when I told her my mom was sick. Otherwise, we just text for appointments. So, I can understand how phone is not the best means to discuss therapy related issues. It's probably difficult for both parties - too much room for misunderstanding?

Your email was great and will be a good place to start in your next session!! I've been dealing with my transference for a year and just last week realized that most of my feelings about her stem from abandonment fears. I don't have these fears with anyone else - just her due to the maternal transference. She told me months ago she wouldn't abandon me. I remember looking at her and thinking "why are you saying that"? I never realized it was abandonment that I feared. So, it's great that you've identified different feelings that are getting stirred up. And, unlike me, you sound like an adult when you talk about them! LOL

I learned this week that my neediness (I call it longing) is actually out of a fear of abandonment. T. will challenge me. I will struggle feeling like she doesn't like me since she's being tough. Then my brain will think of any other times I felt she didn't like me. I then worry I made her mad and she will get frustrated and decide not to work with me. I know this is all irrational but that's how it feels. So, I want to get back to my session to make sure everything is ok. This was a pattern with my mom that I didn't realize until the transference came up. The problem is when I would go back to my mom I had a 50/50 chance of her acting normal due to her alcohol issues. So, I'm trying to learn that it's 100 with my T.

You are doing great. Keep talking to those who give you support (here definitely) and try to see links between your feelings now and your past. It will help you identify the transference vs normal rational feelings.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by Soccer mom

Perhaps as you feel he couldn't fully understand you via phone, he feels you might not fully understand him? Many many many times I have misunderstood my T due to the transference. I see what she says in a negative light and she has to reword it or really explain it for me to see it in a normal light. We have only talked on the phone once when I told her my mom was sick. Otherwise, we just text for appointments. So, I can understand how phone is not the best means to discuss therapy related issues. It's probably difficult for both parties - too much room for misunderstanding?

Your email was great and will be a good place to start in your next session!! I've been dealing with my transference for a year and just last week realized that most of my feelings about her stem from abandonment fears. I don't have these fears with anyone else - just her due to the maternal transference. She told me months ago she wouldn't abandon me. I remember looking at her and thinking "why are you saying that"? I never realized it was abandonment that I feared. So, it's great that you've identified different feelings that are getting stirred up. And, unlike me, you sound like an adult when you talk about them! LOL

I learned this week that my neediness (I call it longing) is actually out of a fear of abandonment. T. will challenge me. I will struggle feeling like she doesn't like me since she's being tough. Then my brain will think of any other times I felt she didn't like me. I then worry I made her mad and she will get frustrated and decide not to work with me. I know this is all irrational but that's how it feels. So, I want to get back to my session to make sure everything is ok. This was a pattern with my mom that I didn't realize until the transference came up. The problem is when I would go back to my mom I had a 50/50 chance of her acting normal due to her alcohol issues. So, I'm trying to learn that it's 100 with my T.

You are doing great. Keep talking to those who give you support (here definitely) and try to see links between your feelings now and your past. It will help you identify the transference vs normal rational feelings.

Hi Soccer Mom--thanks for your post and the encouragement! I agree that the phone just leads to misunderstandings. You don't have the body language and eye contact of in-person contact. I feel like if Wednesday's call had been in person, then MC might have seen how upset I was earlier and maybe reacted differently. Or maybe I would have seen that he was still speaking from a place of caring and been less upset and defensive.

I think once I thought he was talking in a negative sense, I just kind of shut down. Well, maybe not shut down, so much as dug in, like, no, I must have an individual session with you! Or else that means you don't care! And he also dug in, like, no, we shouldn't do that! Where if we were talking in person or maybe more rationally, it would have been different.

I think the transference must be tapping into childhood feelings, because it just seems to hit me in a different place than painful things normally do. Like, I can feel it differently in my body, a certain kind of pain, that I sense in my chest. The fear of abandonment is just intense. I know MC may think he's doing what's best for me, but it's like I feel like I'm not ready, like I need more reassurance and comfort before taking whatever steps I need to in order to move past this.

And, yeah, I may sound like an adult in writing, but pretty sure in my voicemail to him the other day, I sounded like a little kid, or at least a teenager! Of course, the good thing is, his main practice is with teenagers, so he's used to it.

[LonesomeTonight]

Quick update that MC did respond last night to my e-mail. I was scared at first when I saw his name as being a new message. But it was OK. He started the e-mail with "Hey, [LT]." There was a recent thread on here where someone was concerned that their T had gone from "Dear __" to "Hi ___" In the few e-mails MC has sent me, it's always been, "Hi [LT]." The "Hey" felt more familiar/friendly and was somewhat encouraging to me.

I feel like he was avoiding saying too much because of concerns about privacy (HIPAA for those in the US). Like he was just being general in case someone else (like my H) read it. But he said he got my e-mail and thanked me for the "feedback." Also said he appreciated all the work I was doing in therapy and that he understood it was extremely difficult and painful at times. Then said we could discuss things more in our joint session Monday and that he looked forward to seeing me.

I know that's not a whole lot, but it made me feel better. All I asked him to do was confirm he got the e-mail, so he could have just said that. But he did take the time to validate my feelings of it being painful, etc. I felt more hopeful after that e-mail that maybe we could resolve things, that he does care, and is just trying to look out for my best interests. I'm not going to lie--I'm kinda terrified of Monday's session. But I haven't had a bunch of crying spells today like the last two days. Today (unlike the last 2 days) I haven't felt like I just want to cancel on Monday because screw him. I'm just hoping I can go in there and see in his eyes that he still cares and still is there for me and that we can work through this. I want to believe he's trying to do what's best for me and not just trying to get rid of me. I'm not going to go in there and just be like "whatever you say!" to him--I feel like he's been rather inconsistent with me, which has led to the need for reassurance. (Like, "My door is always open..." except "now it's not.") I'm hoping that talking to him in person instead of over the phone will make me realize that the connection is still there and that he's not rejecting me.

Still scared that my telling him I loved him led to all of this, but I guess that's something I can address Monday...

[Tearinyourhand]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

Very brief background: I see an individual T and a marriage counselor. I have a bit of maternal transference for my T and quite a bit of paternal (with maybe a little erotic, though much less than before) for my MC. They both know about it. Had a few individual sessions with MC back in March to discuss and address it.

I recently felt a random need for more reassurance from MC. Had a phone call from him Friday where he made me feel good and secure. During that call, I shared that I love him (in a paternal rather than romantic way, but may not have clarified that enough at the time). Also told T last week that I love her (just maternal way). Had kinda weird joint session with H and MC Monday that led me to leaving voicemail asking MC to call me. We talked today for a half hour, and he seemed to change his tune from Friday, being much less reassuring. I'd said I wanted another individual session with him (H is OK with it) to work through the transference, but he was extremely resistant, basically acting like because I felt like I needed it, then I shouldn't have it. He thought I would just be seeking reassurance from him, which wouldn't be beneficial. I shared that it hurt me and I felt rejected (topic came up Friday), he acted like it would be a learning experience for me, that feeling the pain would help me grow. Which of course hurt like hell, especially since I'd just expressed love for him and have some fear of abandonment that we just recently discussed, including on Friday. (He's still fine seeing H and I together.)

When talked to my T later tonight (called her upset), she said that I'm in a "complicated situation" (since it's MC rather than an individual T). She also said that if someone is feeling transference, then they shouldn't be given reassurance because that will just reinforce the transference. My T also recently told me (in response to my question) that she hugs some clients but won't hug me because I have maternal transference, and she doesn't want to reinforce that.

This seems to contradict a bit with what I've read on how T's should deal with transference. Note that this is a psychoanalytic MC (and T), rather than psychodynamic (which I think uses transference more in therapy). I'm just curious, for those experiencing transference of any kind (maternal, paternal, erotic, etc.) for their T, how has the T handled the transference on a more long-term basis? Is it just discussed a few times then done? Talked about regularly? Did your T seem to pull back from offering reassurance or anything else? Other stuff?

T drew closer to me after I told him how I felt. that surprised me. after lurking on these forums I prepared myself for doom and gloom. overall he is the same as he was before but he's a lot more thoughtful and deliberate in terms of just being aware and checking in with me if I'm acting weird or distant or scared.

I really hope MC will find a way to be more nurturing in ways that help you feel safe and cared for. it broke my heart reading your post.

[LonesomeTonight]

Today's joint session with MC went much better than I expected to. Just the way he looked at me and asked how I was doing after we sat down almost immediately made me feel better and comforted. I could tell he still cared and that the connection was still there.

I said a bunch of stuff about how I was feeling, then he tried to explain what he'd meant during the conversation (he admitted that he'd messed up on the delivery in the phone call). Basically, because I'm feeling paternal transference and part of that is needing reassurance from him that he's not rejecting or abandoning me, meeting with him individually will be like getting that reassurance (even if we don't discuss reassurance). So then it will be harder for me to learn from it. So it's better if I work with individual T on why I need that reassurance, what stuff from childhood contributes to that need, etc. Which generally made sense to me (even though part of me wanted to be like, "But I want to meet with youuuuuu!") He clarified that doesn't mean he doesn't want to work with me or talk to me. (Still good to continue marriage counseling).

He realized a parallel between my issue and something with his daughter from when she was around 10 (she's a teenager now). She kept wanting his reassurance, like if she was at school or an extracurricular activity, either to talk to him or for him to come and get her. He said if he did what she wanted, then she wouldn't learn that she could handle the anxiety she was feeling. So she did learn to handle the anxiety and be OK. This comparison, along with some other stuff he's said, has made me wonder if there's some paternal countertransference going on... (even though I'm much older than his daughter--I get the sense age doesn't really matter with that sort of thing).

He asked if I experienced any anger toward him along with the sadness. I said I did, felt like, "Screw him! I'm not coming back" at one point. He asked if it felt better than the sadness, and I said it did. He was like, "Good!" Said you could do something with anger (less so sadness). We talked about how some of the sadness was likely tied to childhood stuff, and I said how I didn't feel like I could/should get angry at my parents when I was a kid. He was like, "Exactly!" He said I might need to work on getting angry now at some stuff from back then, to see it differently and process it. Which makes sense--gonna talk about that with T tomorrow.

He also noted that when he didn't give me what I wanted in the phone call, I could have just caved and apologized. But instead I fought back, which he said was good and showed that I was strong enough to do that. He said with some of his patients, he knew if a similar thing had happened with him and them, they wouldn't be ready the next week to have a conversation like we did today. But he said he had no doubt that I would be ready, that he knows I'm not frail and fragile. Then he was like, "But it seems like you think otherwise about yourself, that you are frail and fragile." When I nodded, he was like, "Well, you're wrong!" That made me feel kind of good (and also I guess gives me another area to work on with T.)

Some other stuff was discussed, too (including with my H), but won't go into all that. I came out of there feeling much better about things with me and him. I'm not gonna lie--I'd still love to meet with him individually to talk about some stuff, but I'm going to table that for a month or two and see how things go. (And then maybe I would be able to have a more reasoned argument for it than just "But I want to work with youuuuuu!")