Erotic Transference

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Lemon said:
Sunrise - I think I feel that way about my T. It is a little different because she is a women, but I really want her to be as calm and happy in her "real" outside of therapy life as she seems when she's with me. I want what I see in therapy to be the real her, not an act.

I have to admit it bothered me a bit when Pink was able to "lol" at being with a married man. This is probably some kind of transference because I see that from the angle of what it would feel like to be the wife that was being cheated on. (Pink I'm not angry at you, it is the responsiblity of the married person to make the choice, just had to get it off my chest.)

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No, by all means, I'm glad you were honest.

Being with this man was was something I did in my more 'promiscuous' days, before I met my husband, before I calmed down a bit. I have often given thought to what it would be like to be the wife. My 'lol' is similar to what I do in therapy-- I often laugh at things that I am not very proud of. Helps to ease it rather than confront it, you know?

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pinksoil said:

My 'lol' is similar to what I do in therapy-- I often laugh at things that I am not very proud of. Helps to ease it rather than confront it, you know?

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i can't remember the exact details, but i remember discussing something serious and actually pretty painful that happened to myself and I couldn't stop from laughing and grinning about it. my therapist gently, but seriously asked me to not to laugh about it because it wasn't funny. her tone really showed me it wasn't something to laugh about and i was sort of shocked that i wasn't more conscious that i was laughing about it. in my head i was like "wow i am laughing though i know it isn't funny". and it basically made me pause to wonder about my coping tactics.

Sunrise and Lemon-- I need to thank you. You have helped me realize something extremely important.

First-- Congratulate yourselves for for being at a level of emotional health in which you can reciprocate your therapists' feelings for you. To be able to honestly say that you think of your Ts as companions-- and you truly want them to be happy-- is a wonderful thing.

Based on what you have said, combined with what I said about my T having an evil wife that he wants to get away from-- leads to realize and accept that I actually yearn for my T to be unhappy. I am trying to figure out why this is. Part of me thinks that it is because if he is happy, then he is separate from me. I am unhappy, so he has to be unhappy. The only acceptable thing would be for us to either be happy together, or unhappy together.

I need to tell him this today. I don' t know if I am brave enough. If I tell him about the conclusion I came to, I obviously can't do that without letting him know where it came from-- thus letting him know how him being married bothers me. Ugh. But this is way too big of an insight to skip over just because I am embarrassed.

And I am done with projection, in this case-- i.e., saying, "Well, he won't be able to handle this. It will be too uncomfortable for him." When in fact that it is me that can't handle it, me that will be uncomfortable.

So that makes two majorly important things I need to talk with him about today:

1. My emotional reaction/trigger to being on the mood d/o unit during the 1st day of my internship
and
2. The realization that I want him to be unhappy. That I hate his wife, who may be a source of emotional happiness for him. That if I am unhappy in my life, and he is happy, then that is a major disconnect.

Deep breath.

Pinksoil.... Trust me....If your portrayal of last week is accurate.... If he can take all that you threw at him last week... this is really not that big of a deal in relation to what you would be putting HIM through. It may be more of something that you are going through and what you would be admitting.

You can do it Pink... you did last week... you can certainly do this.

Best wishes.....

But it is all about you and your happiness.....and not wishing him well. It is a matter of your wanting him in the same bed...er...ah .... boat with you.

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It is a matter of your wanting him in the same bed...er...ah .... boat with you.

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I needed that. Thanks.

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pinksoil said:
Based on what you have said, combined with what I said about my T having an evil wife that he wants to get away from-- leads to realize and accept that I actually yearn for my T to be unhappy. I am trying to figure out why this is. Part of me thinks that it is because if he is happy, then he is separate from me. I am unhappy, so he has to be unhappy. The only acceptable thing would be for us to either be happy together, or unhappy together.

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pinksoil, it seems to me that there is an alternative here. Instead of wanting your T to be unhappy like you, why not use the desire to be in sync with him as motivation to move towards happiness, where he is, then you will be both be happy, connected, etc.

That's progress that you had this important insight. It's great how therapy keeps going outside of the therapy room. I hope you can share this with your T. I think he will be able to handle it just fine.

If both of you were happy.... that would be nice. He with his spouse and you with yours? You do not share much of your husband except what might appear to be a disconnect. Is there something connecting all of this?

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sunrise said:

pinksoil, it seems to me that there is an alternative here. Instead of wanting your T to be unhappy like you, why not use the desire to be in sync with him as motivation to move towards happiness, where he is, then you will be both be happy, connected, etc.

That's progress that you had this important insight. It's great how therapy keeps going outside of the therapy room. I hope you can share this with your T. I think he will be able to handle it just fine.

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Sunny? Do you want to be my therapist? You have amazing insight, and a great way of reframing things so that I can look at them from a different, more positive side. Uh oh, am I getting cognitive here?

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pinksoil said:

No, by all means, I'm glad you were honest.

Being with this man was was something I did in my more 'promiscuous' days, before I met my husband, before I calmed down a bit. I have often given thought to what it would be like to be the wife. My 'lol' is similar to what I do in therapy-- I often laugh at things that I am not very proud of. Helps to ease it rather than confront it, you know?

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Pink - thank you so much for not being offended and explaining your situation a little more. Laughing at ourselves during therapy is something I've been thinking about lately and I think I'll start an new thread on that.

I appreciate your comment about sunrise and I being advanced enough in our therapy to think about our T's as real people. I hope that is somewhat true, but I do have issues with wanting her to be my friend. She's the perfect friend -- insigntful, smart, not judgemental! I need to clone her (or I like the botteling idea that someone had in another thread).

I don't know if this falls under the topic of "Erotic" Transference...by maybe it does...

....it might be more under the "I Need Love From Somewhere" topic ....with the transference and/or projection of that need onto the main individual who really "fits the bill": the therapist. the therapist who (if they are really connecting like they are "supposed to") listens, exhibits genuine empathy and concern, who wants the best for you, who knows you are there, notices you and tries to genuinely see you as being as good as you are faults and all. the fact they stick around you with your "faults and all" seems to be the capper on seeing them as someone to "fit the bill".

maybe it merely just exhibits and rouses what is in our cores and our emotional reaction is a signal that this is the "kind" of love we do need...not necessarily from the therapist...but in the world in general. it is like a gentle (or maybe not so gentle) nudge that is like: "hey...hey...see what you are feeling right now? this is the good stuff...this is what you deserve. so you can recognize it when it comes from others). i dunno...not sure if that makes any sense.

for some, that need for "love" gets confused with "sex/erotic thoughts" (I know that has been part of my issues). i.e. sex = love

oftentimes when i think of others....i usually bring in music and songs that remind of them. I don't know if it is a good thing or not...but i do it.

In a previous thread I mentioned a song by Sarah McLachlan and for some reason I want to post the full lyrics here. Because I tend to attach and attach songs to people, this is one I sort of attached to my therapist. The bold-faced parts are the parts I most think of when I think of my T.

Am I crazy? Feels like I'm the only one who links songs to people all the time.

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Sweet Surrender
by Sarah McLachlan

It doesn't mean much
it doesn't mean anything at all
the life I've left behind me
is a cold room
I've crossed the last line
from where I can't return
where every step I took in faith
betrayed me
and led me from my home

And sweet surrender
is all that I have to give </quote>

You take me in
no questions asked
you strip away the ugliness
that surrounds me
(who are you?)
are you an angel?
am I already that gone?
I only hope
that I won't disappoint you
when I'm down here
on my knees

(who are you?)
And sweet surrender
is all that I have to give

(who are you?)
sweet surrender
is all that I have to give

And I don't understand
by the touch of your hand
I would be the one to fall

I miss the little things
I miss everything (about you)

It doesn't mean much
it doesn't mean anything at all
the life I left behind me
is a cold room

(who are you?)
And sweet surrender
is all that I have to give

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pinksoil said:
Sunny? Do you want to be my therapist?

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Haha, no way, I don't like it when people get angry and want to throw stuff at me. No, but seriously, thanks for your kind comments. (((hugs)))

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Uh oh, am I getting cognitive here?

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pink, if the shoe fits, wear it!

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Lemon said:
I appreciate your comment about sunrise and I being advanced enough in our therapy to think about our T's as real people.

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I have only been doing therapy with this T for 7 months and don't consider myself very "advanced," lol. But I have always thought of my T as a real person, at least to some degree, as that is his stance. I just love him so much that I want the best for him. It's pure feeling, that's all.

Hi,
I had a pdoc actually attack me physically/sexually. I will never see any male docs of any kind ever again!
Okie

My feelings for my pdoc were that of respect and gratitude. Like others I saw him as a father figure of sorts. I looked up to him a great deal. I did not find him particularly physically attractive. I wish every day that I never walked into his office.

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okiedokie said:
Hi,
I had a pdoc actually attack me physically/sexually. I will never see any male docs of any kind ever again!
Okie

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I'm sorry this happened to you.

i don't think about my current T sexually, even though he is a very handsome guy.. i like him a lot. The last one however... wowsa. i would have been on him in a heartbeat.

The thing pink said that struck me was wanting him to want her.. that was it exactly. i wanted him to want me... i wanted him to need me and crave me... i think that was more important to me than actually getting to have him physically. Knowing that gave me a lot of food for thought. i never discussed it with him at all until our last session, and then all i did was ask him pointedly why he didn't explain to me what transference was. He knew i had developed a deep attachment, why didn't he explain how and why that happened? i felt like he hadn't given me enough credit... that i would understand it intellectually.

i completely got it. i was instantly relieved to discover how common and expected it was... and how valuable it can be to learn from. i felt he had let me down by not discussing that with me. He apologized. He said he learned a lot from working with me that he would never, ever forget... as he is a relatively new T. He knows his stuff but he obviously had not expected me to know mine.

sad thing is.. the sexual longing for him never went away. It eased up but i still feel it. It never developed that way with the newer T. I adore him and i am attached, but I don't see him as a lover... or father either. Brother? Friend?

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I wish every day that I never walked into his office.


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I'm sorry. What makes you feel this way, if you care to share?

Okiedokie, I posted a reply to your post...but, now I don't see it. I am sorry, I wanted you to know I cared and that I think it is horrible that something like that happened to you.

Docs and pdocs are in such a...I don't know in some ways powerful position because they can really help or hurt us. They need to treat our trust with respect and professionalism. Did you tell anybody about him?

Have you talked about this in therapy with your new T or pdoc?

Again, I am sorry this happened to you.

Thanks Depress. I have never said anything about it in therapy, I guess, because I always felt like it was my fault. He was supposed to be smarter than me, stronger than me, more stable than me, etc. It started out with lots of compliments, followed by requests for hugs, etc. And then one day, there was no receptionist or secretary in the office and he took me back and he told me that it was just him and me. What could I do?

I remember being 120 pounds dripping wet and I think still to this day that I must carry an extra 50 lbs around just for protection. I won't lost the weight because I don't want to. I refuse to date. I won't go to any professional who is male -- I don't care what they do, but especially doctors. I just plain don't trust men. Wish I could get over that, but just don't see how it will ever happen.

How do women ever get over stuff like this? (Sorry, now I'm off topic.)

Thanks for your reply!
Take care,
Okie