[notwithhaste]

Hi all,

I feel enormously confused and hurt, and I needed somewhere to talk about this. I appreciate all insight and advice, but please try to be gentle.

I've been seeing my T for two years.

She nearly abandoned me about a year ago. (Wow, it's crazy to think it's been a year.) Then, she did the same thing about six months later. By "nearly abandoned," I mean - threw her hands up in frustration and said, "notwithhaste, I can't work with you anymore." But then, both times, I had an emotional breakdown complete with sobbing into her carpet, and she calmed down and stayed.

I knew that, both times, I had been angry with her for many consecutive sessions, and she felt attacked and apparently couldn't handle it. There were also times when she would get angry right back, and that felt pretty terrifying.

I expressed all of this in a note to her last week, and I asked her for an apology. I wrote out exactly what I thought I needed to hear her say - and she told me that she felt she could say all of it, and then she did...that she was sorry, she knows she hurt me, she should have known better, she wouldn't do it again now, she wants to be here for me. I felt tremendously relieved, and the apology felt genuine.

Afterwards, she said a couple of things that felt pretty insensitive, though, and made me question the sincerity of the apology. Like, for instance, that she couldn't absolutely promise it wouldn't happen again; it might if we "get caught up" in something. I started to express that I don't WANT her to get caught up, and she said, "If you wanted a therapist who didn't get caught up, we wouldn't be sitting on the floor right now." (We sit on the floor during my sessions, per my request - it's something I asked for a long time ago, before any of this happened.) That felt really invalidating to me - can't I want closeness and involvement, WITHOUT wanting my T to be so involved that she gets "caught up" and then leaves me alone?

But she did say that, if it were to happen again, it would "never be justified."

Fast forward to yesterday. I'm feeling really angry and distrustful about some of the comments she made in our last session (especially the one I mention above). I don't want to tell her this because I'm worried about her reaction - will she feel attacked? will she get frustrated and leave? etc. I'm pretty much paralyzed with anxiety, so I say very little - but I'm also really upset with her, so I don't hug her when I come in (she usually greets me with a hug - this time, she offered, and I declined), and I go right for the couch, so we're not sitting on the floor. I don't want to tell her why, so I say I don't feel well - which is true, but not the real reason. I'm quiet and kind of petulant - I'm basically acting like a teenager whose mom is asking her how school went that day. "Fine." I recognize that it wasn't be best strategy. I honestly didn't have a strategy, so that's what I defaulted to. I just wanted to get out of there. I was so nervous.

She eventually commented that I didn't seem to want to be there...she said she wanted to talk about it...and then it all came spilling out. I told her how upset I was. I'm sure I sounded angry and accusatory.

I can't remember a lot of what happened after. What I do remember is that, towards the end of the session, I told her that what I had needed (and thought I got) was for her to admit that it is just WRONG for a therapist to suddenly up and leave a client out of frustration. It's not okay. And her response was, "Actually, I think that absolutely is okay. This is a private business." I started crying and said, "How is that okay? You form an emotionally dependent relationship with someone who is relying on you for help, and you just suddenly leave because you feel frustrated? That's okay?" And then she said, "Well, if I'm being abused it is" - and then she told me that I was abusive to her. I was sobbing, and she (from my perspective) berated me, with how I was petulant, demanding, full of rage...abusive. I told her that I never meant to abuse her, I just wanted her to understand how I felt - I would get upset with her, and she wouldn't understand why I was upset/wouldn't apologize, so then I'd get even more upset, and it would escalate. But I never called her names, never cursed at her, never threatened her...

That's pretty much where we left it. The session ended. She said, "You okay?" but didn't sound particularly concerned. I said, "Oh, yeah, I'm super great" and stormed out crying. I spent 20 more mins crying in the office bathroom. Came home and cried some more. I am completely confused and heartbroken. This woman is like a mother to me, and she thinks I deserved to be left because I'm abusive? Am I abusive? I don't understand. Last week, she said that abandoning me would never be justified - now it's suddenly completely justified because I'm an abuser!

I'm supposed to see her again Monday. I don't know if I can handle going. I can't believe that's what she thinks of me. Maybe it's true?

Has your therapist ever called you abusive?

Thank you for reading...and thank you for any support you can offer, I really appreciate it.

[unaluna]

How old are you?

Giving someone the silent treatment is abusive. I read a book about it, they did a bunch of experiments.

Staying present in the moment is very difficult. I get the feeling you guys are fighting about theoretical situations rather than actual - why not talk more about real things?

[stopdog]

The description of the client does not sound abusive to me - and certainly not in a therapy situation. It sounds to me more like the therapist has issues they cannot contain.

[Argonautomobile]

I wouldn't think it particularly surprising that people in therapy act like they should be in therapy. Seems pretty counter-intuitive that you should have to be on your best behavior in order to not be dumped by someone who is supposed to be helping you through your troublesome behavior. Sorry your therapist can't hack it.

Change T's.

Your description makes it sound like your therapy as become too much about the therapist and the relationship and has forgotten to be about you. Is it possible it is just time to find a different therapist so that you can refocus and your sessions can become more productive? You sound stuck and maybe to get unstuck will require moving on with someone else? I don't know, but this therapy with this particular therapist seems to be more harmful and stifling than helpful and validating and growing.

[atisketatasket]

I think it would be in the best interests of both of you to sever the relationship and move on.

[musinglizzy]

My T recently said she felt bullied by me. That was extremely hurtful and I've not been able to drop it yet.

[missbella]

Your description gives me the impression that you're taking care of her, rather than the other way around. Therapy should be lessening life's drama, not creating it.

[notwithhaste]

It sounds pathetic (maybe it is pathetic), but I love her so much. She's the only support I have. My family isn't supportive, I don't have many friends (and they're not particularly "there for me"), I don't have a partner...I just have my therapist. And when she isn't acting like this, she's there for me, she's kind to me...that's more than I can say for anyone else in my life. I don't know what I'd do without her. I'm so painfully attached, the thought of leaving sends me into hysterics.

That's what I wish she would understand - and she said that she did! She told me that she understood that, if she left, it would hurt me terribly, and she wouldn't do it. That was just last week. I don't understand. She even told me (because I asked) that she felt like I did in therapy - that she experienced "maternal transference" like me, and that is was very painful. She even teared up as she said it and had to reach for a tissue.

I don't understand. Thank you all for listening to me.

unaluna, I'm 25. I understand that giving the silent treatment isn't mature, so maybe that's why you were asking about my age. I really am sorry if I've been abusive to her.

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by notwithhaste

It sounds pathetic (maybe it is pathetic), but I love her so much. She's the only support I have. My family isn't supportive, I don't have many friends (and they're not particularly "there for me"), I don't have a partner...I just have my therapist. And when she isn't acting like this, she's there for me, she's kind to me...that's more than I can say for anyone else in my life. I don't know what I'd do without her. I'm so painfully attached, the thought of leaving sends me into hysterics.

That's what I wish she would understand - and she said that she did! She told me that she understood that, if she left, it would hurt me terribly, and she wouldn't do it. That was just last week. I don't understand. She even told me (because I asked) that she felt like I did in therapy - that she experienced "maternal transference" like me, and that is was very painful. She even teared up as she said it and had to reach for a tissue.

I don't understand. Thank you all for listening to me.

unaluna, I'm 25. I understand that giving the silent treatment isn't mature, so maybe that's why you were asking about my age. I really am sorry if I've been abusive to her.

So she changes her tune and does a 180 every other week it seems, she says hurtful things, she threatens to leave you, then she sweet-talks you, then she turns on you again? You are describing classic abusive behavior from her towards you. It may not be intentional, but she's jerking you around and not improving your mental health.

[missbella]

Originally Posted by notwithhaste

It sounds pathetic (maybe it is pathetic), but I love her so much. She's the only support I have. My family isn't supportive, I don't have many friends (and they're not particularly "there for me"), I don't have a partner...I just have my therapist. And when she isn't acting like this, she's there for me, she's kind to me...that's more than I can say for anyone else in my life. I don't know what I'd do without her. I'm so painfully attached, the thought of leaving sends me into hysterics.

That's what I wish she would understand - and she said that she did! She told me that she understood that, if she left, it would hurt me terribly, and she wouldn't do it. That was just last week. I don't understand. She even told me (because I asked) that she felt like I did in therapy - that she experienced "maternal transference" like me, and that is was very painful. She even teared up as she said it and had to reach for a tissue.

I don't understand. Thank you all for listening to me.

unaluna, I'm 25. I understand that giving the silent treatment isn't mature, so maybe that's why you were asking about my age. I really am sorry if I've been abusive to her.

The archives here are filled with clients who have/had difficulty leaving abusive therapists. It can be good/bad or can evoke a kind of Stockholm syndrome, traumatic bonding. The mere fact you're posting here leads me to belief there's doubts and ambivalence about this treatment. (I had to read about cults to help understand my abusive therapy.)

Therapy, by design can be regressive and brings out vulnerability and emotions. I believe anything short of threats or property damage is fine in therapy, and the client has no mandate for party manners nor need to apologize for speaking up or shutting up. There therapist should expect that without fragility.

The client is not there to walk on eggshells or take care of the therapist.

Notwithhaste - I'm so sorry! This sounds incredibly painful!

I'm concerned that you feel like you need to be on your best behavior as well. This doesn't sound like an abusive situation to me, and IMO handling angry clients is part of a therapists job description.

From my view, it sounds like you're working very close to the core... You're feeling raw and vulnerable and acting authentically... A perfect scenario for your therapist to do some healing work, and instead she's threatening abandonment and shaming you. I'm sad and frustrated for you.

Would she be open to have another therapist step in and help mediate the situation? It seems terrible to throw away a close relationship, yet it sounds like you're being emotionally damaged by how she's behaving.

Originally Posted by unaluna

How old are you?

Giving someone the silent treatment is abusive. I read a book about it, they did a bunch of experiments.

Staying present in the moment is very difficult. I get the feeling you guys are fighting about theoretical situations rather than actual - why not talk more about real things?

Giving a therapist, whom you are angry with, the silent treatment is abusive????

I'd agree, if this were a non-therapy relationship and there weren't so many free flying emotions.

The therapist is also giving the OP no choice - open communication is not received well.

[awkwardlyyours]

Maybe if it's so painful to stop seeing her, could you also see another T for a bit? I understand finances could be an issue but perhaps if there are sliding scale or free options in your area?

So, you don't have to abruptly terminate with her but keep seeing her while also consulting another T -- maybe even once in 2 weeks or so?

I agree with everyone else who's said that this situation sounds very unhealthy -- the fact that you've been in therapy so long and your therapist is your only support raises all sorts of red flags for me about how competent or ethical your T is.

And, so I don't think your needs are not taking priority in therapy as they should be -- if there's some way to give yourself some space and options while you deal with this situation with your current T, it could help. It's not ideal but if it works...

Needless to say, I don't know the specifics of your situation -- so, take this for what it's worth.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by FallingFreely

Giving a therapist, whom you are angry with, the silent treatment is abusive????
I'd agree, if this were a non-therapy relationship and there weren't so many free flying emotions.
The therapist is also giving the OP no choice - open communication is not received well.

I was just saying that the silent treatment is by definition abusive. It wasnt a defensive move, like not talking so they will stop hitting you. Thats when you have no choice.

I am probably the most thick headed client on the planet. My t refuses to argue about anything, period. Either i accept that he is there for me, or i dont. But hes not going to argue about it. So i guess i dont understand what people are arguing about.

I wasnt trying to criticize. Just trying to look at where the conversation is going wrong and why. Because obviously you have two well-meaning people who both want to be there. But they are misunderstanding each other.

Also, my t expects me to treat him like a human being. He says he is one! Plus i need to learn how to state my disappointments or anger or whatever without destroying the relationship IRL so why not practice on him? Its still difficult.

Eta - altho it sounds like my early ts. My begging to stay with my long term t, even tho she wasnt a good fit for me. I was SO abandoned and unattached and unseen, i clung to her desperately and she let me.

[nottrustin]

It seems like it is a very unhealthy relationship without any trust. I may be totally off base but it seems like she wanted to terminate last year but felt bad about it when you cried. So she keeps trying. However, due to the threats of her leaving you you (understandably) do not trust her. Like your family and friends you don't know if she is really there for you. So you are maybe TRYING to push her away (unintentionally) to see how committed to the relationship she is. She sounds like she wants to be there for you but can't (for whatever reason) which is why she goes back and forth. Again I am probably way off though.

[Trippin2.0]

Sounds like she's knowingly messing with your head.

[googley]

My recommendation is that you need to find yourself another T. It sounds like your T can't separate out her feelings from your session which is destined to make the therapy relationship unhealthy. Your therapist even if upset needs to be able to keep her own feelings from overwhelming her during your session.

[Lauliza]

Nothing you said in your OP sounded abusive to me. It does sound like your T is taking you behavior way too personally and it's becoming the focal point of therapy. Even if you refused to speak every session I wouldn't consider it abusive. In a close personal relationship like marriage, yes, it can be, but not in the context of therapy. I'd wonder about the effectiveness of therapy and how helpful this is if your T can't handle a little conflict. It may be painful to switch to another T but may be what's needed.

[Bill3]

This woman is like a mother to me

How does the way she treats you compare to how your mother treated you when you were growing up?

And when she isn't acting like this, she's there for me, she's kind to me.

You are not abusive.

In fact, as atisketatasket pointed out, her behavior seems to follow the "Cycle of Abuse", in which abusers alternate between kindness and abusiveness so as to make it difficult for the person they are abusing to leave.

If she abandons you it is her ethical obligation to provide you with referrals to other therapists. But perhaps it is time for you to seek out other therapists, and other sources of support as well.

[lilypup]

I just think this isn't going to end well. Your therapist is not your mother and this one doesn't seem like you can count on her. It sounds really messy and non-therapeutic.

If I were you, I would end this now before it gets worse. Just the statement that you "go into hysterics" at the thought of ending it is a clue. She is your THERAPIST and it is a private business.

At the minimum, I would keep seeing her but find another therapist you could wean over to.

Sorry to give you tough love but that is how I see it.

[AncientMelody]

Originally Posted by Argonautomobile

I wouldn't think it particularly surprising that people in therapy act like they should be in therapy. Seems pretty counter-intuitive that you should have to be on your best behavior in order to not be dumped by someone who is supposed to be helping you through your troublesome behavior. Sorry your therapist can't hack it.

Spot on.

Thinking about this more (and perhaps I'm too optimistic), but I can't help but see this situation as game time. All cards thrown on the table, nothing held back on either side.

OP needs to either accept the apology and therapist, as 'good enough' and make this relationship different from all others... Or acknowledge that she's not, and find someone that can better meet the OPs needs. I see growth potential in whatever the OP decides.

[notwithhaste]

Welp, so far today, I've had two emotional breakdowns and emailed her twice. That probably wasn't a good idea. The first time, I cancelled Monday's session. Then I had a breakdown about the thought of not seeing her on Monday, and I sent another email, which was basically just an emotional free-for-all about how hurt/confused I am, how much I love her...A+ for me. I'm so good at managing my feelings!

Maybe I really am such a basket-case that no therapist can handle me.

I think that Feeling Attacked and thinking "Notwithhaste thinks I can't do anything right" are triggers for her. I don't know if that's particular to our relationship, or if that's just how she is with everyone - but it seems like, when I make her feel like that, then she says hurtful things. Open communication about anger is only received well if I qualify it a bunch of times, try my best not to accuse and to stay calm, etc. I was doing a pretty good job for a while, I think, and we were doing better. But I just felt SO upset yesterday, I didn't mince words at all. And I know that, if I don't mince words, the conversation is unlikely to go well for me. There have been a few times I've been pleasantly surprised, but for the most part, I know not to act like that now. Not to "act out" my emotions, to just state them.

And it's like - I don't want to trigger her! I know life is hard! But at the same time, I feel so close to her that, when she does something hurtful, *I* feel so triggered that managing my feelings becomes a herculean task. And I wish that she would just understand that and not take it personally, because PART of my anger/upset is about her, and PART of it is about past wounds, and all of that combined together means a whole lot of emotion is brewing, and I need help with it! I feel envious when I hear stories of therapists allowing their clients to get angry with them. I can be mad, but not so mad that I'm not "using my words," as they say. "I" statements and all that. I know it's important to develop those skills. I wish she wouldn't punish me for not having them all the time. Then I feel afraid of feeling angry, which just adds even more emotion to the mix.

Now I'm hoping she's going to see my email, realize she was wrong, and apologize. That could happen. Or she could say something even more hurtful. Or just not answer.

I have to believe that she cares about me...she's given me her time...she hugs me...sometimes she just looks at me with that LOOK where you know someone genuinely feels something for you. That can't all be fake, can it? How can people "switch" so quickly?

Anyway, I'm sorry I'm just continually rambling and not really replying to everyone's thoughts. I really appreciate if you took the time to reply, and I'm thinking about everything you've said. I know I must seem really crazy for not wanting to leave her. I guess I want her to change, probably because I couldn't change my mother...what else is new.