[sinking]

During the last session and todays session i opened up further with my T and told her about my self destructive thoughts, feelings and behaviors, saying i want to feel bad and end it all cause life sucks and i feel trying to die is more rewarding than trying to live. I've already tried to live but i didnt like. Im not normal and the bad things in my life cant be changed.

She said i was irritating her cause im self deceiving and she said if i want to have nothing in life and do nothing good for me and keep hating life and fight against it and follow the path leading me to feel awful and die, THEN FINE, GO AHEAD, ITS YOUR CHOICE.

i felt hurt, angry and theres no point in keep seeing her. Only that im too coward to quit. But really, why should i want to keep seeing her? She hates me, i felt it.

Then she fixed my next appt to wednesday meaning i'll see her only once next week while i was used to seeing her twice a week. She really has enough about me.

Any thoughts? What should i do?

In all the times I've been hopeless and suicidal, I've never had a therapist or a pdoc say something like that to me. They weren't all "poor baby" and sympathetic either, but they would never have said that. Their approach was to help me come up with an alternate plan to keep me safe while I rode out the storm because even I knew (sometimes very, very deep down) that the episode would eventually pass even if it was hard to see and believe it in the moment. They weren't ones to let me dwell on it and spend a lot of time talking about it in therapy though; I was generally already ruminating on it at that point, so engaging that thought process was counter-productive. Perhaps that was your therapist's thinking, but her words and approach suck.

[Route57a]

Originally Posted by sinking

During the last session and todays session i opened up further with my T and told her about my self destructive thoughts, feelings and behaviors, saying i want to feel bad and end it all cause life sucks and i feel trying to die is more rewarding than trying to live. I've already tried to live but i didnt like. Im not normal and the bad things in my life cant be changed.

She said i was irritating her cause im self deceiving and she said if i want to have nothing in life and do nothing good for me and keep hating life and fight against it and follow the path leading me to feel awful and die, THEN FINE, GO AHEAD, ITS YOUR CHOICE.

i felt hurt, angry and theres no point in keep seeing her. Only that im too coward to quit. But really, why should i want to keep seeing her? She hates me, i felt it.

Then she fixed my next appt to wednesday meaning i'll see her only once next week while i was used to seeing her twice a week. She really has enough about me.

Any thoughts? What should i do?

I think she was very unprofessional. Please find another therapist. I wouldn't spend another penny on her.

[BayBrony]

My T, who is amazing and loves me deeply, said this once when i was relapsing badly with my eating disorder and not trying. But she followed with " But *I* want you to live and get better. I can't make YOU choose that. But i love you and want you to get better "

With the second bit it works.
Without it i think its emotionally abusive and definitely not how to talk to a person in distress.

[here today]

Originally Posted by sinking

. . . But really, why should i want to keep seeing her? . . .
Any thoughts? What should i do?

That's the question. I don't think there's an "outside" answer, nothing that anybody here can tell you. What can you tell from inside yourself? Is it only the fear of leaving that keeps you there? If so, what are you afraid of? Or is there something else that keeps you wanting to keep seeing her? Whether you "should" want to or not.

[satsuma]

My opinion is that she shouldn't have said that. Especially saying that you were irritating her! If she doesn't want to hear about difficult thoughts and feelings, then she is in the wrong job!!
I don't know if you are very attached to this T, or if she has some good points that are balancing out these bad points for you? If it was me, I definitely wouldn't go back, and I would look for another T. And possibly tell them immediately that I needed help with these kinds of thoughts and feelings, so they have the chance to show whether they are competent and capable of helping in that situation.

[stopdog]

I think that therapist is doing some form of this - it is a technique they use at clients:
https://www.psychotherapy.net/articl...ical-intention

[growlycat]

Either a technique or she has empathy fatigue. I would not spend another minute on this therapist you deserve someone who will help you through the darker times

[growlycat]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I think that therapist is doing some form of this - it is a technique they use at clients:
https://www.psychotherapy.net/articl...ical-intention

I read the artivle and that therapist is risky and stupid. I don't care what victor Frankl recommends. It puts s patient at unnecessary pain and risk.

[Moment]

Wow, the interaction as you describe it sounds pretty shocking. I can understand how hurt you felt. Not just that but the scheduling change, too!

Is it possible, though, that there were aspects of this interaction that were more positive that you're somehow not seeing? Did she say something like was described in a post above, that you could make this choice but that she wishes and hopes you will not? I know that when I am in a very dark mood, everything gets filtered through that dark lens, and I tend to look for the worst and think the worst in everything.

I mean, you say you don't know why you should keep going back. Is there some part of you that feels that she really cares for you, even though the dark mood can only focus on the feeling that she hates you?

Did she explain the schedule change? Again, you seem to think it's evidence that she's had it with you, but maybe there is a different explanation.

I don't know how long you have been seeing this therapist or what your relationship is like. But if you do go back to her, I hope you would be able to talk about all of these feelings, about your feeling hurt by your response, and feeling like she hates you. And see what she says. It may be that this therapist does not have the tools to help you and that someone else would be a better match.

[lilypup]

Sorry to hear this. I have not been sui (yet) with my T but I sure hope she'd be more positive than THAT.

Personally, if you can, I'd find another therapist. Maybe you can switch over slowly and see them both for a few weeks.

[subtle lights]

Even if that was part of some kind of method, it still doesn't sound something a therapist should say imo. I don't think it's helpful at all, it might block the person from wanting to open up more and it's painful to hear something like that.
I also have a T who is very straight forward and not the type that will pamper you (though I'd need that sometime) but I think T's should be supportive by default especially when we talk about vulnerable and painful topics such as sui thoughts.
Sure, they could express the idea that this direction/ thought is not very helpful for the client to stick to, but still remain supportive and not express irritation in any case. There should be some kind of unconditional acceptance.

[sinking]

Thank you all for your answers and support. i really appreciate it very much.

i do think she is not very professional, but i always overlooked it because her being unprofessional was at my advantage too.

i also never cared much about what she thought of me, she made me feel she knew me and still wanted to work with me, so i was not really afraid of opening up. but now, with everything on the plate, i feel like i disappointed her, as she has disappointed me today. i feel a rupture. i have always thought that once they got to know my self destructive core, nobody could accept me, and today she has proven it.

she did not add anything to the sentence i wrote above. i know she cares, but what she said sounded like she is giving up on me. not that this changes my plans, but hearing she say "FINE" was hurtful.

i have seen her for about a year and a half and have not really thought about quitting until today. not because i feel i make progresses but rather because she is my safety net. i have nobody else IRL whom i can talk to. really.

i read the suicide-paradoxical-intention article but i doubt she was doing something like that. she is very blunt and i dont think she had planned something like that.

i dont think i can go back and talk about this again. for now im thinking about cancelling next appt and see how it feels. without her.

and i could call my old T and tell him everything, i know he would understand and accept me, but i dont feel like really going back to him for regular sessions or to anyone else. i could be just really giving up. whats the point anyway?

but i'd have to tell my parents, explain why i decided to quit with a lie and i really dont feel like doing it. maybe thats another reason why i have doubts about quitting. i could keep gonig and pretend im fine making small talk. i could do that...

[satsuma]

I'm sure you will decide what to do for the best, sinking, but if you are experiencing dark and sui thoughts then IMO you need someone to support you. NOT like current T. But someone in your life who you can share these things with, and who will be supportive. They are heavy thoughts and feelings to be carrying alone.
Maybe contacting old T could be a good idea? Or a new T?
Regarding your parents: do you have to explain to them? Could you just say you decided to change T? Or even not tell them? Or make up a reason - that T is cutting down her hours or something?

[East17]

"i have always thought that once they got to know my self destructive core, nobody could accept me, and today she has proven it."

Her crass, cruel and insensitive comment says nothing about your acceptability, and everything about her inability to be the empathic, non judgemental and understanding sort of therapist you need and deserve.
I really hope you can find someone who can help you with the dark thoughts and feelings you are going through.

[here today]

Originally Posted by sinking

but i'd have to tell my parents, explain why i decided to quit with a lie .
. .

Do you think there is any way that you could say, "I decided it was a waste of my time." or something like that, end of story?

I agree with the others, though, that if you are having sui thoughts, you don't want to mess around with that! I've had good luck talking with people on the crisis lines. I know some people say they haven't but I have. That's what their focus is and I found them to be sympathetic and helpful in trying to help me find resources or a different outlook on my situation.

I did read on another thread that you stopped your meds with the intentions of making yourself feel bad again. Is this something you have done before? Your T does sound really frustrated with you. It's hard to help people when we are actively sabotaging our own well-being. However, your therapist should be able to set aside her frustrations to help you find a better plan -- one that self-destruction isn't part of.

Perhaps you need to contact your pdoc and let him/her know you have stopped taking your medication. Is your pdoc any better at dealing with this?

Are you in, or have you been through, a DBT program?

This sounds like my old t. She always said I irritated her and if I was going to take my life that was my choice but to remember that the world will still go on. She was a gestalt therapist. Do you know what kind of therapy your t practises?
I don't know what your relationship with others is like but when you describe a feeling of not knowing why you are going back but wanting to, there seems to be some kind of reenactment going on here. Something like the drama triangle. Have you heard of it? Something in you is provoking this reaction in your therapist, this is not your fault, she isn't monitoring her counter transference towards you. Do you know if she is in supervision?

[Depletion]

Originally Posted by sinking

Thank you all for your answers and support. i really appreciate it very much.

i do think she is not very professional, but i always overlooked it because her being unprofessional was at my advantage too.

i also never cared much about what she thought of me, she made me feel she knew me and still wanted to work with me, so i was not really afraid of opening up. but now, with everything on the plate, i feel like i disappointed her, as she has disappointed me today. i feel a rupture. i have always thought that once they got to know my self destructive core, nobody could accept me, and today she has proven it.

she did not add anything to the sentence i wrote above. i know she cares, but what she said sounded like she is giving up on me. not that this changes my plans, but hearing she say "FINE" was hurtful.

i have seen her for about a year and a half and have not really thought about quitting until today. not because i feel i make progresses but rather because she is my safety net. i have nobody else IRL whom i can talk to. really.

i read the suicide-paradoxical-intention article but i doubt she was doing something like that. she is very blunt and i dont think she had planned something like that.

i dont think i can go back and talk about this again. for now im thinking about cancelling next appt and see how it feels. without her.

and i could call my old T and tell him everything, i know he would understand and accept me, but i dont feel like really going back to him for regular sessions or to anyone else. i could be just really giving up. whats the point anyway?

but i'd have to tell my parents, explain why i decided to quit with a lie and i really dont feel like doing it. maybe thats another reason why i have doubts about quitting. i could keep gonig and pretend im fine making small talk. i could do that...

I really hope that you are able to find a new therapist. I know that it sounds hard, but I really think that it might be the right thing to do. I had a suicide attempt a few years ago. My old T responded in a very uncaring and frustrated manner. I felt guilty that I wasn't doing better an just kept seeing her. But it turned our that there we a lot of things wrong in our therapy relationship. She had really terrible counter-transference, and basically never treated me correctly the whole relationship. About six months ago I got fed up with her and left. The new therapist I found is truly amazing. She is empathetic and understanding. I'm able to text her when I need to and she cares a great deal about meeting my needs and doing things correctly. I truly feel that she has saved my life. I have made more improvements in the past six months than I ever did in the three years I spend with old T. There are good professional caring therapists out there who truly want to do the right thing for you. I really encourage you to look for one.

Also I agree with what other people are saying. You need to come up with a prevention plan for yourself in the mean time. It might not hurt just to call a crisis line to talk. I did this before I left old T. The crisis worker affirmed my plan to look for a new T, and had some really good insight into why I was feelings so terrible. She pointed out the way that my old T had been suffocating me with all of her feelings.

I'm so sorry you had this horrible experience.

[dlantern]

I think they should be like cyborgs so that patients can say anything just bring a note pad so that we know what the person is dealing with should be there stance. Instead they act like it is their sessions to some to degree or act just like an empathy or something. They hid stuff worry too much about legal and tell us to go to school if it becomes too interesting and just bank on we know our stuff now where are the most hidden resistant ones.

[sinking]

Thanks again everyone for answering and caring. i feel better about it today.

I dont like it, but my parents are paying my T cause i didnt have a job and enough money to pay her myself, so they obviously have to know if i quit T. also, if i quit, i can easily see my T calling my parents or my parents calling my T and talk about whats going on with me and i dont want that.

i think i'll cancel next appt - my way to show im angry and hurt - but then go back the next week. but i'll never go back to the self destructive subject.

yes, i think "frustrated" is the best word to describe how my T must feel about me. i did quit meds before in order to feel bad and it worked so im doing it again now. i dont have a pdoc, but anyway i dont feel like telling anyone what im doing anymore.

i think my T does DBT, but im not sure. and i have never heard about the drama triangle. i'll look it up. i dont think she has a supervisor.

i have tried crisis lines in the past but they didnt help a bit. so im not going to try again. i dont feel like talking with anyone anymore. i dont want to feel im bad, wrong or twisted and rejected again. im helpless and hopeless, i know it, i dont need anyone telling me that.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by sinking

Thanks again everyone for answering and caring. i feel better about it today.

I dont like it, but my parents are paying my T cause i didnt have a job and enough money to pay her myself, so they obviously have to know if i quit T. also, if i quit, i can easily see my T calling my parents or my parents calling my T and talk about whats going on with me and i dont want that.

i think i'll cancel next appt - my way to show im angry and hurt - but then go back the next week. but i'll never go back to the self destructive subject.

yes, i think "frustrated" is the best word to describe how my T must feel about me. i did quit meds before in order to feel bad and it worked so im doing it again now. i dont have a pdoc, but anyway i dont feel like telling anyone what im doing anymore.

i think my T does DBT, but im not sure. and i have never heard about the drama triangle. i'll look it up. i dont think she has a supervisor.

i have tried crisis lines in the past but they didnt help a bit. so im not going to try again. i dont feel like talking with anyone anymore. i dont want to feel im bad, wrong or twisted and rejected again. im helpless and hopeless, i know it, i dont need anyone telling me that.

Are you an adult or a minor? I don't know what the rules are in Italy, but here in the US, if you're an adult, the T would not be able to tell your parents anything that you told T due to confidentiality laws. Could you just tell them that you don't think she's helping you right now and would like to see someone else?

[lilypup]

I have a 23 year old son seeing a therapist. We pay for it.

What about saying this?
"Mom and Dad, I really want to go to therapy, but Dr. X just doesn't seem to be able to help much. Would you help me find a new therapist? I'd like to try someone else and keep going to therapy."

As a parent, I would totally understand and support this and not ask too many questions. I would get busy and hustle around to try to help find a new therapist.

[here today]

Originally Posted by sinking

. . . i dont want to feel im bad, wrong or twisted and rejected again. im helpless and hopeless, i know it, i dont need anyone telling me that.

That sounds to me like a deep ingrained pattern. I certainly won't call it "choice". I had something similar, feeling bad and wrong rather than helpless and hopeless. In my family and situation, that led to less rejection than the hopeless/helpless.

Therapy per see didn't help me change that.

[Depletion]

Originally Posted by sinking

Thanks again everyone for answering and caring. i feel better about it today.

I dont like it, but my parents are paying my T cause i didnt have a job and enough money to pay her myself, so they obviously have to know if i quit T. also, if i quit, i can easily see my T calling my parents or my parents calling my T and talk about whats going on with me and i dont want that.

i think i'll cancel next appt - my way to show im angry and hurt - but then go back the next week. but i'll never go back to the self destructive subject.

yes, i think "frustrated" is the best word to describe how my T must feel about me. i did quit meds before in order to feel bad and it worked so im doing it again now. i dont have a pdoc, but anyway i dont feel like telling anyone what im doing anymore.

i think my T does DBT, but im not sure. and i have never heard about the drama triangle. i'll look it up. i dont think she has a supervisor.

i have tried crisis lines in the past but they didnt help a bit. so im not going to try again. i dont feel like talking with anyone anymore. i dont want to feel im bad, wrong or twisted and rejected again. im helpless and hopeless, i know it, i dont need anyone telling me that.

I'm really worried about you staying in a bad situation that isn't helping you. Yes quiting your meds isn't ideal, but I truly wonder if you did that because you are having some issues with your T. Quiting meds might be a sign that things are not working well for you in T. If you had acted out in that way and you T was the kind of T who was receptive I wouldn't worry so much. But it scares me that you are possibly getting upset going off meds, and not having a solid T to fall back on.

Do you think that you could tell your parents that things with you and your T just aren't working out for you. If you need to tell them something about that you can just say that there is a personality clash. I really don't think your T can tell them very much. It's generally broadly unethical to do so.

You could just tell your parents that you want to try a different kind of therapy, or a new therapist. If you need something substantial to tell them you can always tell them that the research shows that the best predictor of the outcome in therapy is the overall success in the relationship. In other words if you and the T don't get along the research shows that the therapy won't work.