[rainbow8]

This is separate from the money issue so I wanted a separate thread.

I know I differ from many of you who don't tell your T that you Google or look them up on FB, but I have always been totally honest about it with my T. I can't do it any other way. I think it's 2 years since I googled her name.

I wrote her that I didn't find out what's wrong in her family, and that I know it's none of my business. I said I felt shut out again in the session when she said "I'm not going to tell you." This was in the context of telling me she was not going on her 2 week trip.

I said I was NOT looking for her bf/ partner's name; it just appeared next to hers on a donation list that showed up under her name. I wrote that it helps me to know he lives in another nearby state ( that explains their not living together!) because I won't be surprised if she retires and moves there. It's only a couple of hours away. I actually feel more settled knowing who he is but I know T didn't want to tell me. If she can't handle that I know, and wants to terminate me, so be it. I doubt that will happen.

I was going to respond on your other thread yesterday, but this is as good as any So, all this googling stuff... You know what question comes to my mind each time I read about it? Not at all why you do it, what you want to find out etc, but why you feel so conflicted, guilty, ashamed, whatever about googling her? Why is it even a topic to bring up to her? I googled my Ts and virtually everyone I am curious about the way you do and never felt it inappropriate or intrusive - it is the public web and if people put info on there, I think it is a fair assumption that they are comfortable with it even if it's not them who directly shares it in person. There have been quite a few threads about similar topics and there are always some people who seem to think like I do, and others more like you do. So I just wonder what is it that even brings up the thought that looking for whatever information about whoever on the public web is inappropriate? Maybe it's me missing something here...

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I was going to respond on your other thread yesterday, but this is as good as any So, all this googling stuff... You know what question comes to my mind each time I read about it? Not at all why you do it, what you want to find out etc, but why you feel so conflicted, guilty, ashamed, whatever about googling her? Why is it even a topic to bring up to her? I googled my Ts and virtually everyone I am curious about the way you do and never felt it inappropriate or intrusive - it is the public web and if people put info on there, I think it is a fair assumption that they are comfortable with it even if it's not them who directly shares it in person. There have been quite a few threads about similar topics and there are always some people who seem to think like I do, and others more like you do. So I just wonder what is it that even brings up the thought that looking for whatever information about whoever on the public web is inappropriate? Maybe it's me missing something here...

For me, it's finding out information that T has specifically said she didn't want to tell me. She HAS at times in the past asked me what I found out, and we discussed how it doesn't help ME to know. Like FB. I felt jealous reading comments by others to T, and seeing photos and blogs by her daughter. Do you think googling T's family is okay too, because it's also public?

When I googled her art exhibit and saw what she wrote about herself, I had a hard time with it. I had to discuss it with her. I learned a lot of personal things about her. Her response was that she knew clients could see it when she put it out there. But the art gallery did, not her.

I begged her to tell me her bf's name about a year ago. She would only say his first name. I was very upset that she wouldn't tell me. I searched lists of T's with that first name. Finally I dropped it and lost my desire to know.

So, last night I found out without even trying. It satisfied me, though brings up jealousy that I don't have a partner. But how does T feel? She didn't want to tell me. Sure, it was right there on my Google list. But I know something she refused to tell me. That's why I feel bad about it.

[ruh roh]

Maybe she doesn't tell you because you end up criticizing her or spending all of your therapy time working out your resentments about her life. I have a SIL who makes pointed comments, if not outright criticisms, about things that are important to me, so I just don't share. So it could be she wants you to use your therapy time to work on your own life, not hers.

I see. Yes, I remember the previous story about the bf and George Clooney

Well, I personally would think that it is perfectly okay to google her family using public info, but you clearly feel very differently about all this than me, and it sounds complex, so I don't think I am a good reference. I never feel an iota of guilt or conflict about looking for info on the web about stuff people don't tell me, but I would never try to get into any private sphere like checking somebody's personal computer, phone, look for things in their office or anywhere. I also hate gossip and don't like to ask anything about anyone behind their back, or spread info that way. These types of respect for privacy and confidences are what I personally feel very strongly about, no compromise. But not the public internet. It is also interesting for me why I am so serious about not intruding anyone's true privacy and not letting info leak out of me - there is a whole story behind it about my childhood. I won't bother with it because it is your thread, but this is why I thought it is interesting to think where our individual relationships with privacy come from.... there are so many versions. My version manifests in many interesting ways in different areas of my life.

I think it's good that you discuss these things with your T, including the cases when you kinda broke your resolve, how finally getting the piece of info you desired made you feel, etc.

[Moreta]

Why are you so worried about your therapist's personal life? It's a professional situation. Do you google all your drs you see and know all about their lives too? Therapy is to work on you, not to talk about your therapist's personal life. THIS is why I can't be a therapist, cause I'd just totally **** with people when they ask me personal info. Who do you date? A dude name John Smith. tbh I'm glad I don't know much about my therapist. It's her life, not mine, I'm there to work on mine, why do I need to know her info.

[NP_Complete]

Originally Posted by Moreta

Why are you so worried about your therapist's personal life? It's a professional situation. Do you google all your drs you see and know all about their lives too? Therapy is to work on you, not to talk about your therapist's personal life. THIS is why I can't be a therapist, cause I'd just totally **** with people when they ask me personal info. Who do you date? A dude name John Smith. tbh I'm glad I don't know much about my therapist. It's her life, not mine, I'm there to work on mine, why do I need to know her info.

I'm not speaking for OP, but in my opinion, the curiosity exists because it's a much more personal relationship than what I have with my GP or my dermatologist. I told my therapist last week that if he ever wanted to hurt me, I've given him all the ammunition he needs to destroy me. It's a vulnerable position when they know all your secret hurts and fears. I think it's only natural to be curious about their personal life in return.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Moreta

Why are you so worried about your therapist's personal life? It's a professional situation. Do you google all your drs you see and know all about their lives too? Therapy is to work on you, not to talk about your therapist's personal life. THIS is why I can't be a therapist, cause I'd just totally **** with people when they ask me personal info. Who do you date? A dude name John Smith. tbh I'm glad I don't know much about my therapist. It's her life, not mine, I'm there to work on mine, why do I need to know her info.

Because my T and I have a relationship. I am not interested in my doctors' personal lives. I'm just not. It's different with my Ts, especially this one. My T works in a way that uses the relationship because I have attachment issues. I haven't googled her in 2 years! Give me a break! I've been seeing her for 7 years. It's the way I am. Knowing about her is important to me because I WANT, NEED to feel close to her. Yes, I know I WANT and NEED to feel close to the people in my life. T is a real person, though. Not a blank slate. I care about her. That's the way it is for me. I hardly talk about her personal life in sessions. I go on and on about me. I doubt that my explanation helped you understand but you asked, so I tried to answer.

Originally Posted by rainbow8

If she can't handle that I know, and wants to terminate me, so be it. I doubt that will happen.

This makes me wonder whether you are testing her rather than being motivated by just curiosity/issues with not knowing. I'm not making a judgement on that, it's perfectly okay to test, but it might be worth asking yourself about your motivations and seeing what is being stirred for you here.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Runcible Spoon

This makes me wonder whether you are testing her rather than being motivated by just curiosity/issues with not knowing. I'm not making a judgement on that, it's perfectly okay to test, but it might be worth asking yourself about your motivations and seeing what is being stirred for you here.

I don't think I'm testing my T or maybe a part is now that I think of it. Does she love me even when I do something she doesn't like? She had reason to be angry when I drove past her house in the past. She stuck with me. I know she won't desert me now.

Others in my family keep things from me. I don't remember my parents doing it though. I hate being left out more than anything!!! T and I have discussed that a lot.

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I don't think I'm testing my T or maybe a part is now that I think of it. Does she love me even when I do something she doesn't like? She had reason to be angry when I drove past her house in the past. She stuck with me. I know she won't desert me now.

Others in my family keep things from me. I don't remember my parents doing it though. I hate being left out more than anything!!! T and I have discussed that a lot.

It's hard to admit to the testing part for some reason. I think there's a sort of societal judgement about it, or at least that's how I felt. It took me a lot to admit that side of my motivations. When I know what my T struggles with, I push on that. It's part of the transference. The healing is in the fact I become aware of what I'm doing. It's hard work but it is the work. Therapy is the place to experiment with these dynamics and young motivations.

[unaluna]

How did your parents feel about your "disobeying" them? This incident feels more symbolic to me than like potentially dangerous. Like you are acting out your anger.

There was NO disobeying my parents. We twisted the truth to make things fit. It was like no way out. But in t, you kind of sit together, hold hands, and face uncomfortable feelings and differences of opinion together, and stay together, and its okay. Nobody gets to threaten to kill or cut off the other person - thats not playing fair.

[SalingerEsme]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I was going to respond on your other thread yesterday, but this is as good as any So, all this googling stuff... You know what question comes to my mind each time I read about it? Not at all why you do it, what you want to find out etc, but why you feel so conflicted, guilty, ashamed, whatever about googling her? Why is it even a topic to bring up to her? I googled my Ts and virtually everyone I am curious about the way you do and never felt it inappropriate or intrusive - it is the public web and if people put info on there, I think it is a fair assumption that they are comfortable with it even if it's not them who directly shares it in person. There have been quite a few threads about similar topics and there are always some people who seem to think like I do, and others more like you do. So I just wonder what is it that even brings up the thought that looking for whatever information about whoever on the public web is inappropriate? Maybe it's me missing something here...

I am right here too. We google every job applicant, and I fully expect people to google me as well. It is more of an issue here not about googling but about information being made illicit somehow . If she cant control the info, she should just reveal it, not create a power struggle. What I hear you saying is you are stressed she is going to retire and leave you, so you are trying to read all the signs available to you? I think instead of telling her you googled her BF it is maybe time to really talk about your feelings about her retiring and make concrete plans what you will do then? I dont really know that, but it is a sense I get.

People use google earth before selling you a puppy to check if you have a fenced yard like you said lol, and run your credit before hiring you. I think some T's are vulnerable here and feel scared. So many traditions of psychoanalysis rest on enigma and mystery that just cant be maintained if they use social media unwisely or even cautiously to some extent. I have no compunction about following my curiosities online, but then maybe a combination of internet manners and self preservation mean I just keep it to myself.

[kecanoe]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I see. Yes, I remember the previous story about the bf and George Clooney

Well, I personally would think that it is perfectly okay to google her family using public info, but you clearly feel very differently about all this than me, and it sounds complex, so I don't think I am a good reference. I never feel an iota of guilt or conflict about looking for info on the web about stuff people don't tell me, but I would never try to get into any private sphere like checking somebody's personal computer, phone, look for things in their office or anywhere. I also hate gossip and don't like to ask anything about anyone behind their back, or spread info that way. These types of respect for privacy and confidences are what I personally feel very strongly about, no compromise. But not the public internet. It is also interesting for me why I am so serious about not intruding anyone's true privacy and not letting info leak out of me - there is a whole story behind it about my childhood. I won't bother with it because it is your thread, but this is why I thought it is interesting to think where our individual relationships with privacy come from.... there are so many versions. My version manifests in many interesting ways in different areas of my life.

I think it's good that you discuss these things with your T, including the cases when you kinda broke your resolve, how finally getting the piece of info you desired made you feel, etc.

You said this quite well; it's pretty much where I stand. I would definitely consider looking through someones office, looking at things on their phone or computer to be nosy and intrusive, and out of line. I apply that standard to everyone, not just Ts. I do get on H's computer or phone once in a while to look for something in particular, but only with his knowledge.

I don't see anything wrong with googling a Ts name. I've done it and may do it again. I've also googled other service providers. And I would be fine with someone googling me if they were curious.

I also agree that it seems like there could be some insight gained by the dynamic of Rainbow wanting to know stuff and T saying she won't tell. I've had super-disclosing and minimal disclosing Ts and both are fine with me. So there might be something going on under the surface that would be interesting to figure out.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by SalingerEsme

I am right here too. We google every job applicant, and I fully expect people to google me as well. It is more of an issue here not about googling but about information being made illicit somehow . If she cant control the info, she should just reveal it, not create a power struggle. What I hear you saying is you are stressed she is going to retire and leave you, so you are trying to read all the signs available to you? I think instead of telling her you googled her BF it is maybe time to really talk about your feelings about her retiring and make concrete plans what you will do then? I dont really know that, but it is a sense I get.

People use google earth before selling you a puppy to check if you have a fenced yard like you said lol, and run your credit before hiring you. I think some T's are vulnerable here and feel scared. So many traditions of psychoanalysis rest on enigma and mystery that just cant be maintained if they use social media unwisely or even cautiously to some extent. I have no compunction about following my curiosities online, but then maybe a combination of internet manners and self preservation mean I just keep it to myself.

Just want to say I'm not stressed about T wanting to retire. She's 55 and not thinking about it now. I'll probably die before she retires. I mentioned it because now I know her bf lives and practices in another state and it seems likely she would go there IF and WHEN she retires because he teaches, etc. I'll write more later. Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate them.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by unaluna

How did your parents feel about your "disobeying" them? This incident feels more symbolic to me than like potentially dangerous. Like you are acting out your anger.

There was NO disobeying my parents. We twisted the truth to make things fit. It was like no way out. But in t, you kind of sit together, hold hands, and face uncomfortable feelings and differences of opinion together, and stay together, and its okay. Nobody gets to threaten to kill or cut off the other person - thats not playing fair.

I don't remember disobeying my parents or getting into trouble. I was a good girl. My parents were loving, not mean.

[toomanycats]

I think what sticks out most is not that you're searching around, but that you feel the need to tell her ASAP. That has to result from pretty strong guilt.

I think if someone were to tell me ASAP that they'd been searching about me, I'd be a bit more wary than if someone were to have searched about me and I found out later in like casual conversation.

Like "oh yeah I stumbled upon your boyfriend's name online" with a little embarrassment during casual convo vs. an urgent text or email of "I found your boyfriend's name on this donation page..." with a lot of guilt.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I don't remember disobeying my parents or getting into trouble. I was a good girl. My parents were loving, not mean.

I was a good girl too, but sometimes i just wanted other things than what they wanted. Im just saying, look at how any conflict was handled.

[coolibrarian]

Others in my family keep things from me. I don't remember my parents doing it though. I hate being left out more than anything!!! T and I have discussed that a lot.

Rainbow, things were kept from me, also, for most of my childhood. That's why I am curious about almost everything, all the time, and that includes stuff about my T's personal life. I know A LOT about her. Some I've shared with her, some, not.

[confused_77]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I don't think I'm testing my T or maybe a part is now that I think of it. Does she love me even when I do something she doesn't like? She had reason to be angry when I drove past her house in the past. She stuck with me. I know she won't desert me now.

Others in my family keep things from me. I don't remember my parents doing it though. I hate being left out more than anything!!! T and I have discussed that a lot.

its an interesting subject. i Google my therapist and other people I know and feel very guilty about it myself. as if i was trying to snoop around somones life, it just doesnt feel right. for me its the endless question of what do they think, who are they when they are not a therapist how do they feel about me, what do they think about the me... . l think it has to do with control for me. i am unhealthy preoccupations with such details.

[fille_folle]

Originally Posted by Moreta

Do you google all your drs you see and know all about their lives too?

I do, actually. Maybe not every single one, but my primary care doc, gyno, and anyone else I have a long term relationship with. Although I admit that it's not usually an ongoing behavior with them, only T's.

[fille_folle]

I agree with @toomanycats. I find your compulsion to tell your T about your behavior to be interesting. I wonder what you are trying to accomplish. I understand feeling guilty, but telling her seems rather self-serving, like you are trying to force increased intimacy by revealing what you know - because then she has to react. I think you're getting something out of revealing your behavior and what you learned to her, not just out of the Google-stalking itself. I think you tell her to try to make her feel closer to you, and to distinguish yourself among her clients as "in the know." I don't think guilt is the primary motivator at all - because telling her doesn't benefit her in any way, only you. I think your behavior is intended to make her feel and be vulnerable to you.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by fille_folle

I agree with @toomanycats. I find your compulsion to tell your T about your behavior to be interesting. I wonder what you are trying to accomplish. I understand feeling guilty, but telling her seems rather self-serving, like you are trying to force increased intimacy by revealing what you know - because then she has to react. I think you're getting something out of revealing your behavior and what you learned to her, not just out of the Google-stalking itself. I think you tell her to try to make her feel closer to you, and to distinguish yourself among her clients as "in the know." I don't think guilt is the primary motivator at all - because telling her doesn't benefit her in any way, only you. I think your behavior is intended to make her feel and be vulnerable to you.

More later, but your post seems accurate! I'm having a reaction to it, idk but will respond later. Thank you.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by toomanycats

I think what sticks out most is not that you're searching around, but that you feel the need to tell her ASAP. That has to result from pretty strong guilt.

I think if someone were to tell me ASAP that they'd been searching about me, I'd be a bit more wary than if someone were to have searched about me and I found out later in like casual conversation.

Like "oh yeah I stumbled upon your boyfriend's name online" with a little embarrassment during casual convo vs. an urgent text or email of "I found your boyfriend's name on this donation page..." with a lot of guilt.

Thank you. I agree with you. Will respond more later.

[Salmon77]

If she can't handle that I know, and wants to terminate me, so be it. I doubt that will happen.

I find this a bit odd, too—would you really feel like "so be it" if she did terminate you? I get that you don't think she will, of course. But it sounds really defiant in a way, like you know you're going against her wishes and you're also testing her power over you, seeing if there are any real consequences (and suspecting there aren't). I thought the question about how your parents handled conflicts/disobedience was a good one.