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  #901  
Old Jul 30, 2018, 06:47 PM
GeekyOne GeekyOne is offline
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T said:
  • I am not a burden on her
  • I am smart
  • I am making progress
  • I may be predisposed to focusing on the negative but that doesn't mean I can't see positives if I look for them
    --->in ways I am unclear on, this is apparently not saying that I'm too negative
  • She won't teach me how not to have feelings
    --->even if it were possible, which she doesn't believe it is, she says it is opposite of the point of therapy

Meanwhile, I am still sitting here with
Possible trigger:
because I can't cope even when life is better than it was.

I wanted more time with her today. I don't know what I would have said/done/used it for though. Next Monday is a long time away.
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  #902  
Old Jul 30, 2018, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toomanycats View Post
I was completely locked inside my own head, I couldn't even move my body, and he said nothing. He KNOWS how much I hate silence. I have told him so many times... Time was up, and I just said, angrily, "I guess we're done then...thanks for leaving me in silence..."
((cats))

I suspect he was waiting for you to cry. Therapists can be real jerks sometimes.
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  #903  
Old Jul 30, 2018, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Anne2.0 View Post
I appreciate the detailed rendering of your session and the aftermath. I clipped this phrase out, de-contextualized it really, because I think there is much to unpack there. Clipped like this, I'd first of all say that I wish less suffering for a human beings, you and otherwise. If why I go to therapy can be crystallized in a short phrase, this is it. I want to suffer less.

Because the suffering is always there regardless of what anyone did or didn't do to cause it. If I punch someone in the face and they punch me back, my swollen eye and bruises hurt just as much as theirs.

The Buddhists say "things as they are." At least in my own life it has not been easy to see what happened to me that caused me suffering (multiple things, including many that were my choice or due to my actions) for what they really were and how they affected me.

I don't know if this is in the same ballpark as what you are experiencing, but I have felt that I deserved to be punished for the things that caused my suffering. If I'm honest, this not only included things that happened because of my actions in adulthood, but to to CSA that everyone would agree could not possibly be "my fault." Maybe this is different from your version of you don't deserve to feel bad about what happened to you, but I'm not sure.

Because that is what I think trauma does to people. Skip the specifics of the things that cause the suffering, whether it's an act of G-d (people who are in floods or other natural disasters also have PTSD and they also suffer from feeling that they have and should be punished for their badness-- or whether it is child abuse or abuse of any kind-- trauma makes people feel bad. In my version, the "bad" is really large, a kind of deep and dark hole I am still climbing out of. Part of it is recognizing just how bad I felt during and after the traumas. But the stickiest part is seeing how much I felt a "bad" person, that I was lucky enough that anyone chose me as a person in their life and I should be grateful for whatever crumbs they scooped my way.

Trauma is such a trickster too because as soon as you can pin it down-- kind of like catching a tiny feather floating down on the wind, it morphs into something else that you have to deal with. At each piece of it, what it feels like to me is that I have to break through all the things about it, if you like the term defenses I think that's what this is, that lead me to try to distort the trauma into something it wasn't. It is so hard just to see things for what they really are. To admit, this thing that happened, it was terrible and the pain from it has lingered. Because that is what trauma does, and our enormously creative brains do not like something they have tidily put away coming back to roost in our conscious life. From the way our culture wants traumatized people to be silent to the neurology of "resolution" of the trauma, there's a lot of pressure for people to deny their pain.

Sometimes I think in the popular media there is this sense that people "enjoy" claiming "victim status" or "enjoy being a victim." I think that is horse doodee. While what happened to someone will undoubtedly be scrutinized as to whether the proper label such as rape would apply IF you make a public FB post or you file a criminal/civil complaint, in private this notion that people want to be victims doesn't apply at all.

This might be a crazy analogy, but about 8 years after we were married, my spouse decided to become more religious (his "religiosity" shifted). He went from someone who went to services once a year to someone who embraced a very conservative group that I would not join because it was against my larger values. It took many years to come to a place of acceptance about it, but for a long time I felt like I had been betrayed, and everything that women said when their partners cheated on them was exactly how I felt. Except G-d was the person he was cheating on me with. No, I "shouldn't" have felt betrayed or victimized by him changing his spirituality and how he practiced it. I could say with a deep respect for logic that this was about him and what he needed to grow as a person, not about him rejecting me and seeking something else with another being.

But it wasn't until I could admit how I saw things ("you are cheating on me with G-d") and how I felt about them that I could begin to get my head around the real problem.

And for you, LT, your description of your reactions or suffering feels connected somehow to the issue you've raised before, about how difficult it is for you to ignore the noise about what people think about you. This issue seems to sit pretty squarely on it, because this time you are looking at how you think about the trauma you've experienced. If you need validation that what you went through was terrible, you've received it from your T and in this thread (from me too, fwiw). But I think the most important piece is that you see your traumas for what they really were and how they really affected you, and that has nothing to do with what other people think.

Thanks, Anne, these are some great insights, and I'm sorry you struggle with this, too. I even mentioned to T today how you pulled out the line "I don't deserve to suffer" and how it seems to be kind of the main point in all of this. Will post today's session either tonight or tomorrow--there was a lot in it...
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  #904  
Old Jul 31, 2018, 05:16 PM
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T yesterday. He told me to go sit, he'd be back in a minute. He returned with a mug of coffee. I said, "I figured," and he replied, "At least I'm predictable, I guess!" He asked how I've been feeling. I said his e-mail reply Thursday helped and thanked him. And that I was pretty nervous about today's session. T: "Why are you nervous?" Me: "Because I figured we'd be talking more about trauma again."

T: "I'd like you to take me through what you've been feeling since last session." Me: "OK, I guess it started with me getting in the car and having that insight." T: "About how you don't deserve to suffer if you caused other people pain?" Me: "Yes." T: "Why do you think it affected you so much, to realize that?" Me: "I don't know...I guess maybe because it seems to tie into other things. Like I posted some about my session on PC, and one poster just pulled out one line, 'I don't deserve to suffer.' And I think that's a big part of it, like how, what we've discussed before, where I'll compare myself to others who have gone through worse things and think I don't deserve to suffer as much as they did."

Stuff about how that refers to both mental and physical things. Me: "I think that's why I tend to give a lot of reasons for, say, why I don't want to do something, because having a headache alone may not seem like enough." T: "You do have a tendency to overexplain." Me: "I know, and it's something that really annoys H, but it's hard not to do it." T: "It doesn't annoy me." Me: "I didn't say I was afraid it did." T: "I know, I was just clarifying that it doesn't bother me. But it seems to take so much energy and isn't necessary with me." Me: "Yeah, in e-mails I used to start them more with 'Sorry to bother you again, but...' And I'm trying not to do that now." T: "I appreciate that. Because then it just takes more time to read, and it's not at all necessary. Just start in with what you want to say." Me: "It's what I've been trying to do." T: "I know."

Me: "Actually, part of why I'm so stressed about today's session is that, no matter what happens, I feel like I shouldn't e-mail you after because I did after last session. And you'd said if I started e-mailing you after every session, we'd have to talk about it. Even though before that I hadn't e-mailed for maybe 2 weeks--whenever you were going out of town." T: "LT, what have I told you about this?" Me: "That you'd give me a warning if it was approaching too much." T: "And that's exactly what I'd do."

Me [starting to cry]: "But I don't even want to get to the point of the warning, because then I'll feel I've done something wrong, like, maybe not rejection, but like I've been bad, that I'm too much. And then I worry you'll start charging me for two-line e-mails." T: "I would never do that." Me: "OK, I just worry because of what happened with ex-T and ex-MC. And you'd said one way of dealing with it was to charge a client for all e-mails." T: "LT, you're not even close to the level where I'd give a warning." Me: "I'm not? Really? OK, that helps to hear that." T: "No, you're not. You can always ask me about that, and I promise to be a straight shooter with you." Me: "OK, thanks." T: "Would it help you to let you know what a conversation would look like if it got to that point? Because we can have it now if it would make you feel better." Me: "No...I think it's better just to wait. Just knowing that I'm not even close to that point helps."

Back to my not feeling like I deserve to suffer. I said how my anxiety and other issues probably caused so much stress for H, that he probably hates having to deal with me. T said that in all marriages/romantic partnerships, each partner spends time picking up the other's trash behind them. At first, I thought he meant literal trash, but then realized he meant figuratively. He said I haven't given him that great of a sense of H, but he surely does things that I have to deal with as well. Me: "Yeah, I guess so. I just feel like mine is more...annoying."

T: "If you were to write down what H thought of you, like 3-5 paragraphs, how accurate do you think it would be?" Me: "Probably not very accurate. Then again, H tends to be more fleeting in his feelings, so might depend on if it was right after a fight or something." T: "OK, maybe he was a bad example."

Me: "Maybe with friends?" T: "Yes, let's say with a friend." Me: "Well, maybe I wouldn't want to know, since they'd likely mention annoying stuff I do." T: "But they're still your friends anyway, right?" Me: "True...But I wonder about people I'm not really friends with anymore, like one who used to invite us to all her parties, but hasn't in a year." T: "I'm guessing you start thinking back over everything you may have done, like, 'Oh no, maybe I ate too much guacamole at that party!'" Me: "I do like guacamole!" T: "I hope you don't start suddenly limiting yourself in guacamole since I said that!" Me: "Yeah, I'll even stop asking for extra at [this one restaurant], even though I'm pretty sure they charge me for it!" We both laughed.

T asked more about stuff I put up with from H, and I mentioned how for months after his friend died about 5 years ago,
Possible trigger:
T: "But were you trying to be understanding of it because of his loss?" Me: "Yeah, I let it go on for a long time because of that." T: "That's an example of picking up his trash then. You made allowances for him." Me: "Oh, OK, I get it. That is what eventually led me to insist on marriage counseling."

I said how H still yells at me sometimes, but I often wonder if I'm just being oversensitive. T said how he thinks yelling is never OK. That led to the topic of how ex-MC tended to normalize so much of what H did, including any expressions of anger.
Possible trigger:
Me: "Yeah..." T: "I wish I had a transcript of that session. I just can't figure out how ex-MC thought sharing that was at all therapeutic." Me: "Well, he shared a lot of non-therapeutic things..."

I said that I still felt I was more of a burden to H because of the anxiety. T: "This might seem rude, but, you almost want to say to him, if it's difficult for him to deal with from the outside, then imagine what it must be like living with it on the inside all the time. It might be challenging for him, but it's even worse for you." Me: "Yeah, and it's not like I choose to be this way. Why would I?" T: "So if you can just get him to see that. But first, you have to believe it yourself." Me: "Yeah...That kind of ties back into what we were discussing at the beginning." T: "Exactly, I'm trying to tie it all together."

Me: "I know we only have a couple minutes left. But there is something from last session that I keep thinking about. It involves the sexual encounter from college." T: "You'll have to help me, I can't think of what you mean right now." Me: [Thinking, WTF, you don't remember??? I know you say you have a bad memory, but...]: "The one where I wasn't sure how to interpret what happened?"
Possible trigger:
T: "People can deal with the same event in very different ways. And I didn't want to influence how you felt about it until you told me. Because I'm still not clear on how you feel about it." Me: "I'm still not clear on how I feel about it either." T: "Exactly. And we may not be done discussing this, there may be more processing to do." Me: "Yeah, there probably is. With this and other things we've discussed."

Confirmed Thursday, scheduled for both next Monday and next Thursday. He reminded me that the Thursday/Friday after that is when he'll be away, and I said I'd likely be OK with just the one session that week, but we could discuss next week. Paid, shook hands as he said, "Have a good next few days." Me: "You, too."
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  #905  
Old Jul 31, 2018, 05:51 PM
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DP_2017 DP_2017 is offline
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LT

I went through the email issue for months myself, constantly worrying I'd be too much etc and was always told I wasn't. IF you really worry about it, set your own boundaries. It's what I do. Then you don't feel like that and the worry wont be as bad, you have gone quite a while without emails before, so you can do it... it just might help to lessen the worry of being too much.

As for the not remembering, I had to giggle, my T has the worlds worst memory, seriously. He rarely remembers anything from previous sessions, it's tough but I've gotten used to it. It's hard to remind yourself but they do have a lot of other clients and their own issues etc to worry about as well, I kinda of it like with my best friend, I don't remember everything she tells me, sometimes I need a reminder but then I'm like oh ya! It doesn't mean it isn't important to HER and that I don't care, it just means, I got sidetracked. It happens. Try not to let those things get to you. Be glad he doesn't do it as often as mine.

I believe you can do the weekly in 2 weeks, you will be just fine and super proud of yourself when you do! You got this.
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Last edited by DP_2017; Jul 31, 2018 at 06:38 PM.
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  #906  
Old Jul 31, 2018, 05:53 PM
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Deejay14 Deejay14 is offline
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LT the more work you do with this guy the more I like him!
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  #907  
Old Jul 31, 2018, 05:54 PM
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Great session LT!
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  #908  
Old Aug 01, 2018, 05:25 PM
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malika138 malika138 is offline
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I couldn't do it. I was so anxious going in and I wanted to be able to talk about wanting to talk to T when I was crashing last March and feeling rejected when she had no opening for an extra session and she never offered to talk on the phone, but other times she does offer to skype or talk on the phone. But we have never done either.

I told her that me still being anxious in her office means that I really cannot trust people and connect with people. She said it makes sense because of my bad experiences with a previous T (epic failure on that T's part) and that I am probability projecting mother feelings on her (which I adamantly denied, both today and in the past), and that I come to her office to talk about difficult stuff. I know I was anxious today because I wanted to talk about feeling too much when I was super depressed, and wanting her support but afraid of the rejection that could come from asking to talk on the phone.

I tried to say that I don't like that I wanted to talk to her in March (what I meant to say is that I wanted to ask her to talk on the phone but was afraid to ask). She didn't get it (of course I wasn't really saying anything) so I said that I am embarrassed about feeling so depressed in March and she said that it is good to have a reference point so that I work to stay more stable than March. So I still wasn't able to say what I needed to say.

I wanted to talk about SH in March, when even the online crisis folks didn't want to talk but wanted me to go to the ER. So to sorta get to that topic, I reported my SH during my vacation. She talked about strategies like getting up and walking away... if only it was that easy.

I feel like I was just going in circles, that I was trying really hard to say some really hard stuff but I couldn't actually use the words necessary to be understood.
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  #909  
Old Aug 02, 2018, 07:09 AM
Anne2.0 Anne2.0 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DP_2017 View Post
LT

As for the not remembering, I had to giggle, my T has the worlds worst memory, seriously. He rarely remembers anything from previous sessions, it's tough but I've gotten used to it. It's hard to remind yourself but they do have a lot of other clients and their own issues etc to worry about as well, I kinda of it like with my best friend, I don't remember everything she tells me, sometimes I need a reminder but then I'm like oh ya! It doesn't mean it isn't important to HER and that I don't care, it just means, I got sidetracked. It happens. Try not to let those things get to you. Be glad he doesn't do it as often as mine.
This is really a set of great points; thank you for sharing it. It's a very clear example of how therapy and real life relationships can have similar dynamics. This is a good thing. I agree that a T's memory can't hold all the details of all the information that we share; that's not a reasonable assumption.

I also think that T's don't listen for facts, they listen for understanding. Maybe they are listening for themes, like the facts strip away and they the pain or the grief or the difficulty coping or whatever. Sort of like how when you read a book you are not just reading to understand what happened, but to understand what the story means.

T's might also "forget" because they want to hear how someone talks about the thing a second time, to see if the meaning has changed. Or they might sort of remember or they remember several events but aren't sure what you mean. So they don't feel they can say they remember but don't want to be offtrack so they say they don't remember.

I think your point about expectations, that is isn't reasonable for us to impose a "should remember" on anyone because that's not the way memory works. And your point about how we can't interpret "forgetting" as indicating the person doesn't care about us or listen to our stories "enough."
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  #910  
Old Aug 03, 2018, 06:52 PM
emeraldheart emeraldheart is offline
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T and I talked about our relationship today. It was a pretty good session, I think. Posting snippets of them here has been cathartic...although I know they’re not usually very exciting!

—————-
T: I find myself self-disclosing a lot with you and I notice that I talk a lot during our sessions. Do you think it’s been helpful or is it a distraction?

Me: I think it’s been helpful. This whole set-up feels less artificial when it feels like there’s another person in the room with his own thoughts and opinions and feelings. The things I know about you, so far at least, has helped me open up more. It feels like you understand.

T: I will never 100% feel everything that happened to you. But I do feel the emotions that you show in this room during the hour.

Me: Does it ever scare you that we have a fairly close therapeutic relationship? That we also talk on a personal level?

T: No. I think we both have good boundaries. But I am concerned about how it might be for you.

Me: I’m pretty clear on what we are

T: Could you tell me more about that?

Me: I know that this is a professional relationship. I know that even if it may seem like a fake, forced relationship, it’s also a caring one. I know that we are friendly as far as this therapeutic relationship is concerned. I know that we can’t be friends outside of it.

T: And how do you feel about knowing that our time together is a finite resource?

Me: Sad, but it’s something I understand and accept. I still wish we met in a different setting

T: Likewise. But we still have this. And we still have a lot of work to do and a long way to go. How do you feel about sticking around?

Me: You’re going to regret it! Sometimes I come into session wanting to reveal movie and tv spoilers!
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  #911  
Old Aug 03, 2018, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emeraldheart View Post
T and I talked about our relationship today. It was a pretty good session, I think. Posting snippets of them here has been cathartic...although I know they’re not usually very exciting!

—————-
T: I find myself self-disclosing a lot with you and I notice that I talk a lot during our sessions. Do you think it’s been helpful or is it a distraction?

Me: I think it’s been helpful. This whole set-up feels less artificial when it feels like there’s another person in the room with his own thoughts and opinions and feelings. The things I know about you, so far at least, has helped me open up more. It feels like you understand.

T: I will never 100% feel everything that happened to you. But I do feel the emotions that you show in this room during the hour.

Me: Does it ever scare you that we have a fairly close therapeutic relationship? That we also talk on a personal level?

T: No. I think we both have good boundaries. But I am concerned about how it might be for you.

Me: I’m pretty clear on what we are

T: Could you tell me more about that?

Me: I know that this is a professional relationship. I know that even if it may seem like a fake, forced relationship, it’s also a caring one. I know that we are friendly as far as this therapeutic relationship is concerned. I know that we can’t be friends outside of it.

T: And how do you feel about knowing that our time together is a finite resource?

Me: Sad, but it’s something I understand and accept. I still wish we met in a different setting

T: Likewise. But we still have this. And we still have a lot of work to do and a long way to go. How do you feel about sticking around?

Me: You’re going to regret it! Sometimes I come into session wanting to reveal movie and tv spoilers!
I love your snippets, and they inspire me. I wish your T 's capacity to be vulnerable and to get real would magically put a spell on mine. There sounds like a lot of respect and mutual regard in the room.
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  #912  
Old Aug 03, 2018, 07:34 PM
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In the session today, the therapist paid too much attention to my body language. She asked me why I was upset, I denied being upset, and she went on to list all the signs I was showing of being upset. The therapist likes to call me out when I tell fibs or outrageous lies. I don't know why. Near the end of session, I pronounced that I have never been hurt and that nothing bad had ever happened in my life, and she told me that didn't make sense. Sometimes I think I am testing her to see what she will do when I say something crazy. Other times, the words just come out of my mouth.

I don't like when the therapist tells me I care about something, or that I'm scared of something. I don't and I'm not!
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  #913  
Old Aug 04, 2018, 10:58 AM
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The words should have made me feel more upset, but I guess it’s not just about words because I felt unexpectedly comforted by this interaction.

Me: You don’t tell me how you feel about anything. You don’t have to put yourself out there and be vulnerable. Why would I want to be the only one doing that? It’s not fair.

T: (in a kind, soft, gentle voice) No, it’s not fair.
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  #914  
Old Aug 04, 2018, 11:57 AM
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Figure I should do a writeup of Thursday's session so that Friday's extra session will make more sense. T Thursday. Went back and sat down. I said I was barely on time because of being stuck behind slow drivers, so we commiserated about some of the roads and drivers in our area, and he shared that he's gotten a speeding ticket before, too.

I said I'd gotten upset about something related to ex-MC the night before but was embarrassed to tell him what it was. Before I could share, T asked when my last communication with ex-MC was. I looked it up in my phone--was late June. I said I hadn't shared e-mail with T because I was upset with him about something at the time and had told ex-MC how T is great in some ways, but I worried about his lack of transference knowledge, etc. And how ex-MC had totally missed the point and replied, "I'm glad that T is great in some ways." T: "That sounds like something Dr. ex-MC would say--he does tend to focus on the positive."

T asked what my expectations were with contact with ex-MC in the future. I said I didn't know, that he'd replied to the couple e-mails I'd sent since termination in early April. He talked about how different T's handle that differently, and it also depends on if it was an official termination or if he left the door open, that he got sense ex-MC had left door open with us. I said yes, that we could technically come back if we wanted. T was talking about possible liability issues of a person was no longer really a client, whether it's OK to give more therapeutic advice or not. I said how ex-T had said a general update periodically is fine, like something where she'd just respond "Thanks for the update, glad things are going well" or similar (we'd never actually discussed that with ex-MC). T said that's how he feels about it, too. But that with most former clients of his, he's kept the door open, if they wanted to come back (the few where he didn't, he made it very clear with a formal letter). But if they sent an e-mail looking for advice, he'd likely suggest they come in for a session instead.

I said I'd also been wondering if ex-MC would still be available in a crisis situation, like would he still talk to me if I needed that and couldn't reach T? T said I probably shouldn't count on that. Since I'm not really still a client. And if I did try to reach out to him and he said it wasn't OK or just ignored it...that could make me feel rejected. Me: "And if I was already feeling really bad..." He said something else that made me feel he didn't think ex-MC would be OK with it.

I said that led to something I'd been wondering about: Is it ever OK to call T, if it was before a certain hour (he'd said at one point he never answers phone after 10 pm)? (He only has his cell that he uses for work and personal, no office phone, and I've never called him for any reason--just e-mailed or, if scheduling, texted.) Would he ever be willing to talk to me on the phone in a crisis? That I was referring to, like, a once a year sort of thing. He proceeded to give a really vague, conditional answer that seemed really wishy-washy to me. That he doesn't usually answer his phone (though would listen to messages) and most likely wouldn't be available when I'd call, either in with clients or a family thing, etc. That he prefers to meet in person so would probably just try to get me in as quickly as possible. I was left feeling I had no real sense of whether it was OK or not.

I realized we had 10 minutes left. I went back to what I wanted to discuss at beginning, how I'd flipped the calendar over to August, saw our beach trip (with my parents, H, and D) on there, remembered taking stuffed elephant I associate with ex-MC with me the last couple years to give emotional support during the trip and a tough part of the drive. And I'd started crying and was upset for a while about it. T: "It's like I said, where grief can hit you at unexpected times." Me: "Yeah, it just seems silly because it's about a stuffed animal..." T: "Why couldn't you take the elephant with you this year?" Me: "Uh...because now I have negative associations with it?" I started crying, pulled a tissue from the box, and the last few came with it. T: "Now to see how long those can last." Me: "At least it's almost end of session."

Me (the following said very quickly, through tears): "The thing is, it's like this part of me wants to ask you if I could borrow the stone or something else for the trip to the beach, like if I promised to only hold it during the difficult part of the ride, and just keep it in my bag the rest of the time, but then I don't really want to ask, because I'm too afraid of you saying no, and that would be painful, so I don't want to take that risk, so I won't ask you." T: "OK. We can continue to have more of a discussion about all of this next time if you want." Me: "OK, that might be good."

Confirmed Monday and Thursday, paid, shook hands as he said, "Have a good weekend." Me: "You too."

Then I ended up being a weepy mess much of the night, including in front of my D ("Mommy's sad!"), sent T this e-mail late that evening (it was initially much longer but I edited it way down before sending),

"Dear Dr. [T],
Many thoughts distilled to this. If you charge, could you please keep it to $45?

1. I really miss Dr. [Ex-MC]. One takeaway from today was the harsh reality of "He's gone from my life. I can no longer count on him if I need someone." Which hurts like hell. (How do I deal with that?) Hence my questions about what I could expect of you in a crisis.

2. There's stuff I want to talk about with you, but I'm afraid to. The therapeutic relationship seems good right now, and I'm scared to upset the balance. How do I break through that fear? Or is the fear there for a reason, meaning I should avoid those topics?

3. I'm really scared to say this, but I wish you'd offer me the stone (or some other item) for the duration of the [beach] trip, at least to help me [with the difficult part of the drive] (and deal with my parents). (I could deal with a "no" via e-mail better than in person.) Then again, in a previous email, you said you appreciated me willingly giving it back. So maybe merely asking you will seem like a horrible insult to your feelings. If that's the case, I'm very sorry, and just forget that I asked. (Even though today you said not to worry about taking care of you.)
Thanks,
[LT]"

Then early in the morning, I e-mailed asking, before he replied to e-mail, did he have an opening that day by any chance? He wrote back at 7:45 a.m. saying he could see me at 3 if I wanted (later changed to 2), so I went with that.

Stay tuned for the Friday session writeup (if you're not totally sick of my updates by then!)--I think Friday's was a really good, helpful session that cleared the air about some things.

Last edited by LonesomeTonight; Aug 04, 2018 at 12:13 PM.
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  #915  
Old Aug 04, 2018, 01:06 PM
Anne2.0 Anne2.0 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight View Post

Stay tuned for the Friday session writeup (if you're not totally sick of my updates by then!)--I think Friday's was a really good, helpful session that cleared the air about some things.
I like the way you handled your sort-of request for a stone, you didn't ask outright but you gave him time and space to decide whether that was something that he could do. You explained what it would mean to you, and you both agreed to talk about it more the next time. I think this is a great, mature model about communication over difficult topics, and decreases reactivity while increasing thoughtful and reflective resolution. Kudos. I also think this kind of space giving model allows the other person to be more likely to grant your request (so I'm on pins 'n' needles to see how it resolves, and betting that T will give you some kind of transitional object).

I also want to share that I appreciate your session write ups no matter what; I don't always have something meaningful or relevant to share.
Thanks for this!
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  #916  
Old Aug 04, 2018, 03:00 PM
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LonesomeTonight LonesomeTonight is online now
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Warning: LONG: T Friday (extra session). I was running late (and he's always on time), so had texted him "be there in 3 minutes" then "Getting on elevator." He said he appreciated it and felt like he was watching my progress on Google maps. (I was really only a couple minutes late, but since he has no receptionist, he wouldn't know when I arrived.)

Sat down, I thanked him for the extra session and said for some reason whenever I schedule an extra one, I started doubting that decision shortly beforehand. T looked puzzled and asked if I was doubting it now. I said I was at first, but then thought about how I was last night and knew I'd made right decision, that if he hadn't had opening, I'd have been OK, but glad he did. I said how I was crying a bunch last night, like in front of D while trying to play with her, how she'd said, "Mommy's sad" and I'd told her it had nothing to do with her. T: "Aw, I'm sorry."

I started tearing up and looked for the tissues, which I'd used up the day before. Me: "Oh good, you replaced the tissues." T usually has the tall, square boxes of tissues, but this was one of the big, long rectangular boxes. T: "I got the industrial size this time." I laughed and said at least he didn't have a whole Costco 10 pack stacked up next to my seat. T: "At least I didn't put two boxes there, one labeled 'LT's tissues' and the other one 'other clients' tissues'." Me: "True! I appreciate that." I think that joking helped break the tension.

T: "So you sent me an e-mail. Do you want to discuss what's in there?" Me: "Yeah, I guess." T: "Where do you want to start?" Me: "I don't know." T: "Well, you numbered your points, 1, 2, and 3--do you want to go in order?" Me: "I'm not sure, I don't even know why I numbered them--they weren't in a particular order." T: "Well, let's start with the first one."

Me: "I guess session yesterday just kind of made it more clear that ex-MC is not a part of my life anymore. Like how you were saying I probably couldn't go to him in a crisis anymore." T: "That's rather black and white thinking. I wasn't saying you definitely couldn't, just that I didn't know for sure if you could." Me: "OK, but it still sort of underlined the reality that I don't know if I can rely on him. Like it helped knowing he was on my list of people I could go to, but I don't know that he is anymore. And that's hard." T: "I can understand that."

Me: "So...I did end up e-mailing him last night, a really short e-mail, just asking a hypothetical, that if I was in crisis, could I still contact him?" T: "What exactly did you say?" Me: "I don't remember." T: "That's not like you." Me: "Well, I rewrote it a couple times, then just sort of sent it off and didn't want to look at it again. I think I said that I would go to you first, but just wanted to know if he'd still be there if you or other people aren't available."

[Side note: My e-mail said, "Hypothetical (came up in session today): If I were ever in a crisis situation again, after trying other avenues, would it ever still be OK to reach out to you? If the answer is "no," that's OK, and I completely understand, I just want to know." And ex-MC replied this morning with: "Hi [LT]. At this point, it would probably be better to contact [Dr. T] first (just like you said in your e-mail, other avenues first). If other, more recent avenues/contacts are unavailable, then sure, you can contact me." Which I appreciated and made me tear up a bit.]

T: "So, you were sort of thinking of him as a safety net, in a way?" Me: "Yeah, plus, before, for a long time, I was seeing both him and ex-T, or him and you, so if something happened with one, I had the other. Or if one was on vacation, the other was usually in town." T: "Oh, I hadn't thought of it that way before. So now it's just me." Me: "Yes. And it's also...I've known you less than a year, but after...a certain amount of time, I'd known them longer...uh, that doesn't make any sense, but..." T: "You knew them better, knew how they'd react to things." Me: "Yes, exactly. And again, if something happened with one, I had the other one." T: "So, like, if I got hit by a truck, there wouldn't be someone else you could go to right now who knows you well." Me: "What?" T: "You said if something happened with me, I was trying to use an example where there wasn't a termination for other reasons." Me: "I didn't really mean if you died or terminated me, more like if we had a rupture." T: "Oh, OK."

T: "Or if I went on vacation to Australia for 3 weeks. Not that I have any plans to go on a vacation of that length, but I can see where you'd worry about that." Me: "Yeah, or on an African safari where you wouldn't have e-mail access." T: "Wow, that's really helping me with my bucket list." Me: "I'm helping plan your next few vacations!"

We got back to ex-MC topic and the e-mail. I said part of me wanted to know if he still cares. T: "Well, that's not what you asked him in the e-mail though." Me: "I know." T: "So his answer won't tell you that." Me: "Yeah, but I also want to know if I can reach out to him in a crisis, if he can still be on that list." T: Well, his response would tell you that." Me: "Yes. And if I asked if he still cared, he'd probably give me some generic response, like 'I care about all my former clients', which wouldn't help."

T: "The way you talk about him, it keeps reminding me of a romantic breakup." Me: "Yeah, you've said that before...and I understand what you mean." T: "Like wondering if he still cares about you, still thinks about you, I feel that's often what happens after a romantic relationship ends." Me: "Yes, I've certainly had that with an ex or two who I was involved with for a long time. And it's also been other way, if I've broken up with the guy, him checking in with me to see if I still care." T: "Exactly, it's natural to want to know." Me: "I'm not really that way about ex-T though." T: "Yeah, you don't really talk about her at all."

The stuffed elephant came up. I said how I was thinking of how he'd said how different stuffed elephant and stone were last session (forgot that part). And I was thinking that maybe it represented how I saw each of them, like ex-MC was maybe...more soft and squishy? Me: "While you are..." T: "More firm?" Me: "Maybe a little that, I was thinking...more strong, unwavering. Like in a good way, I don't know."

T: "So where is the elephant now?" Me: "I think it's shoved under D's bed, collecting dust." T: "Aw...that makes me think of that scene in Toy Story." Me: "Or Island of Misfit Toys in Rudolph." T: "What are you going to do with it?" Me: "I don't know, I don't want to throw it out. But..."

T: "So I'm going to go ahead and say this now. I'd like to give you something from the office to take with you on your beach trip." Me: "Really, are you sure?" T: "Yes. I appreciate how you asked me in the e-mail, because it gave me time to consider it." Me: "Yeah, I know last time you said you felt put on the spot, so with this I felt I gave you a few weeks to think about it." T: "You handled it well. So I'm thinking the session before you leave, we can look around the office and pick something. If you want the same stone, that's fine, but I understand if you want a different one, if that one is tainted now." Me: "I'll think about it. And whatever I take, I promise not to lose it on the beach or anything. Like I'd come back with some replacement and be like, 'This is definitely the stone I borrowed from you!'" T laughed and said he didn't think he was that attached to any stone in his office that he'd be upset if it went missing.

At some point he asked how I'd feel if he'd given me a stuffed animal as compared to ex-MC. I said, "Well, ex-MC didn't actually give me that, so..." T: "Right, but you associated it with him. I was just wondering how you'd react if I did that." [Side note: I don't think he has any stuffed animals in his office...] Me: "I think it would be different than with ex-MC. And, like if it was something little." T: "OK. Now I'm thinking it will end up being this list of options, like, 'Do you want to go with door #1 or door #2?'" I laughed, "Like an Amazon wish list or something." (I'm now curious as to whether he'd ever consider actually getting me something, but certainly wasn't going to ask...)

He said he had a couple clients who were musicians who would sometimes borrow something from his office for a performance to put in their music case as a good luck charm, then return it next session. This didn't hit me at the time, but after I left, I was thinking, Wait a minute, he said before he's never given a client a transitional object before. Maybe it's just in how he defines it? Like if it's for a set event, more of a good luck charm, it's OK, but for long-term, it's different? Something to ask Monday, I suppose... I also want to see if he remembers what they borrow, so I don't take the same thing...

Somewhere in there I also asked for clarification on his contact policy during a crisis, and he clarified more. That he just didn't want me to expect him to be available at all times and be upset if he wasn't. That he'd always try to get back to me that day, at least in 24 hours. I said he had been that way with e-mail, which I appreciated. I asked about phone calls, and he said that he did prefer in person, because on the phone he can't assess how someone is doing as well, like their affect, or how they're reacting to what he said. How he can be very direct in what he says and can't tell how people react to that on the phone. T: "Like just now, when I said that, I could see you shut down a bit, and I wouldn't know that on the phone." Me: "OK, I guess I was just thinking of something like...if I was out of town, like when I'm going to beach." T: "Oh, in that case, phone would be OK. Like we could set up a time to talk." Me: "OK, it helps to know that. I hope I won't have to talk to you while down there, but based on past years...it's just nice to have that safety net." T: "I understand."

Somehow, we still had a bit of time left. I said I wasn't sure whether to talk about other part of e-mail, how I worried about bringing up certain topics with him. T asked what sort of things I meant. Me: "I guess...anything related to transference? Like if I had a dream or some random thought, or I reacted in a certain way to something you said and wanted to explore that because it could mean something therapeutically, but then I'm afraid of how you'd react, so I avoid it." T: "Do you mean a dream about me? Or a random thought about me?" Me: "Yes. Now if sounds like I have a whole bunch of those...it's not that, it's just a few things that have come up in the past couple months where I wasn't sure whether to bring them up because things were going well and I didn't want to risk messing it up."

T: "Well, I think the couple conflicts we've had, we did a good job working through them. And things turned out OK, right?" Me: "Yeah, true. And I know you said if I made you uncomfortable, it was OK, we'd work through it." T: "Exactly. LT, I know you tend to be hyperanxious about what people are thinking of you." Me: "Yes." T: "I don't want you to have to be that way with me. I pledge to be honest with you, with how I'm feeling. So you don't ever have to wonder what I'm thinking." Me: "I appreciate that. It's just...I'm not used to that. So when you're honest with me...I always wonder what else you're feeling behind that that you're not telling me." T: "Well, you don't have to worry about that. I'll be upfront with you. I'd tell you before it built up into anything. OK?" Me: "OK.

Me: "It's still hard to accept your being that honest. Like I said, I'm just not used to it from...anyone in my life really. So it's maybe a little scary. Like that thing you said maybe a couple months ago, when you said, 'You affect me, LT.' I didn't know how to react to that and still don't. I knew I affected ex-MC in some ways, but he never would have said that. And ex-T...well, I guess she teared up a couple times when I was telling her something, which made it clear it affected her, but then it was also like, I'm making her sad, so maybe I shouldn't talk about this. So, I didn't know how to react to your saying that." T: "The truth is, we're affected by anyone we're in a relationship with." Me: "Yeah, I guess so, I'm just not used to the openness about it." T: "I want to be able to be open about my feelings and reactions with you. Like I was with the stone. And I want you to feel able to be open with me as well." Me: "I want to be able to be open with you, too."

We were at time. Me: "I expected to be more emotional this session. I worry because I wasn't, you're sitting there thinking, 'She didn't really need this session.' Or maybe it's just me projecting..." T: "I can assure you that I'm not thinking that. I trust you to know what you need." Me: "OK, I just wonder if you expected me to just be a sobbing lump on the couch today, and I wasn't." T: "If you'd been that, it would have been fine, too." Me: "OK. Part of this was also, we have some plans with friends tomorrow, and I didn't want to still be worrying about this. I think this session really helped. So thank you." T: "I'm glad it helped."

Paid, as I said, "It actually occurred to me that my credit card could be a sort of transitional object. You do hold it frequently!" T laughed and shook my hand as he said, "Have a good weekend. Enjoy." I said, "You too." T: "I'll see you Monday." Me: "See you then."

So, I think the session really helped. It's hard to get this across in a post, but T also seemed really warm and caring throughout. Like he really wanted to understand and connect with me. (Now I just hope he doesn't get hit by a truck over the weekend...)
Hugs from:
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Thanks for this!
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  #917  
Old Aug 04, 2018, 03:16 PM
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junkDNA junkDNA is offline
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I can't meet with t on Monday

makes me a big sad panda
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  #918  
Old Aug 04, 2018, 05:57 PM
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precaryous precaryous is offline
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After someone here asked me, ‘how could my T allow texting, email and telephone contact from me at any time’...I answered I thought it was bc she has a small practice. Truth is, I didn’t know if she allowed any of her other clients to have this much out of session contact. .

In therapy yesterday I came out and asked her if any of her other clients are allowed to phone, text and email anytime. She said, “No.”

I wasn’t ready for that answer. I didn’t even mumble ‘thank you.’ I know some phone her cell direct and she picks up. I figured SOME other clients could email and text, too. But no, just me.

I understood it wasn’t likely she would be able to allow ALL her clients this much contact. But I didn’t expect it was just meeee.

I am honored and happy that I have these privileges but I wonder, ‘why me?’ This is bringing up a few other questions for me. I haven’t decided whether we should talk about this further. Maybe I oughta shut up about it and just accept this ‘gift.’

I’m just surprised.
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  #919  
Old Aug 04, 2018, 06:10 PM
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unaluna unaluna is online now
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(((Pre))) i think some ts try to make up for other ts damage if they can.
Thanks for this!
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  #920  
Old Aug 04, 2018, 06:13 PM
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precaryous precaryous is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unaluna View Post
(((Pre))) i think some ts try to make up for other ts damage if they can.
I’m worried this might make her an over-involved ‘bad’ T. She’s not bad.
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  #921  
Old Aug 04, 2018, 06:16 PM
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DP_2017 DP_2017 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by precaryous View Post
After someone here asked me, ‘how could my T allow texting, email and telephone contact from me at any time’...I answered I thought it was bc she has a small practice. Truth is, I didn’t know if she allowed any of her other clients to have this much out of session contact. .

In therapy yesterday I came out and asked her if any of her other clients are allowed to phone, text and email anytime. She said, “No.”

I wasn’t ready for that answer. I didn’t even mumble ‘thank you.’ I know some phone her cell direct and she picks up. I figured SOME other clients could email and text, too. But no, just me.

I understood it wasn’t likely she would be able to allow ALL her clients this much contact. But I didn’t expect it was just meeee.

I am honored and happy that I have these privileges but I wonder, ‘why me?’ This is bringing up a few other questions for me. I haven’t decided whether we should talk about this further. Maybe I oughta shut up about it and just accept this ‘gift.’

I’m just surprised.
Sounds alot like mine. While he allows texts and emails I know in texts he only allows scheduling with others. Some don't even get the number. I'm happy with it. I wonder why me too at times but I am just glad I get it.
__________________
Grief is the price you pay for love.
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  #922  
Old Aug 04, 2018, 06:18 PM
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unaluna unaluna is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by precaryous View Post
I’m worried this might make her an over-involved ‘bad’ T. She’s not bad.
Thats not how i see it. Your experience with your very bad prev t could mean you require extra help sometimes. I think that to deny that, to pretend it didnt happen, would be unrealistic and dishonest.
Thanks for this!
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  #923  
Old Aug 04, 2018, 06:36 PM
Echos Myron redux Echos Myron redux is offline
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Originally Posted by unaluna View Post
Thats not how i see it. Your experience with your very bad prev t could mean you require extra help sometimes. I think that to deny that, to pretend it didnt happen, would be unrealistic and dishonest.
Absolutely. 100% agree.
Thanks for this!
Anastasia~, LonesomeTonight, precaryous, unaluna
  #924  
Old Aug 05, 2018, 12:02 AM
PurpleBlur PurpleBlur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junkDNA View Post
Had a really nice session today. Did more parts work. We walked for 40 min. I said t can I ask u something . He said yes. I said are you angry at Me? He said no why. I said Just my mind. He said is ur mind telling you I'm angry or is it the voices. I said Just my mind today. We went over symptoms [voice, paranoia, thinking problems]. Talked about work and a new friend i have. Talked a little about ED stuff. We came back to the office. I showed him my parts journal. He said it was incredible and ive come so far. He told me how to empathise, he said empathising things to my parent part to teach me. We explored the parents motivations for being negative and found some good stuff. He said he noticed parent part had become softer when we discovered why it does what it does. He asked if I felt that , I said yes I did. I started to dissociate. T asked how are you feeling now. I had gotten quiet . I said I think I'm dissociating. T played connect 4 with me to help bring me back. He asked did that help? I said yes. It was time to go. I asked for a hug.
can you tell me more about keeping a parts journal?

i think i might like to try it...
Thanks for this!
CantExplain, precaryous
  #925  
Old Aug 05, 2018, 12:27 AM
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Lemoncake Lemoncake is offline
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Member Since: May 2017
Location: Seattle.
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Quote:
I'd like to give you something from the office to take with you
I secretly cheered when he said this. In really glad your session went well. It's clear to see from his words that he does care about you.
Thanks for this!
Anastasia~, CantExplain, LonesomeTonight, Lrad123
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