[tomatenoir]

My therapist is great apart from one issue - - he point blank refuses to hug me.

I've been with him a year now and I've found a lot of the sessions quite valuable. I've brought hugs up a few times, and he's always skirted the issue / said no. When he initially said no I even contacted other therapists in my area about hugs, as I saw this as very important. They all said they would never hug a client.

I've hoped this feeling would go away, but it's only intensified. So last Wednesday I told him I really felt I couldn't go further without hugs, that I felt they were integral to continuing. He still said no. I asked him if he'd touch my arm. He still said no. I shouted at him and stormed off in a huff at the end of session, something I have never ever done. I'm the perfect client - - punctual, polite, pay on time, and not even grappling with anything too major.

I'm now very stuck. I feel like continuing would be a betrayal to myself. But I know an 'I quit' text would just get an 'I'm sorry to hear that. Warmest wishes, S' text back which seems so abrupt and would hurt quite a lot.

But I'm loathe to throw away someone who has been so helpful. And if I quit I wouldn't return to therapy, as the reason I initially went had resolved, and I just go now to explore longstanding issues and improve my emotional skills.

Has anyone been where I am? Did you have a need that a T refused to accommodate? What did you do, and how did it play out longterm?

Just for the record, I want hugs so I can feel like I exist in the room with him, to know he cares, and because I think you can understand touch better than words.

It's not because I want to be special to him or want them for some romantic reason. Just want to know I'm important to him for an hour a week - - don't care what he thinks /does the rest of the time.

[DP_2017]

Have you asked for a handshake? That is something more therapists would be willing to do.

Have you asked about emails? Maybe a email every week can help you feel cared about beyond the office hour? Sadly it is common for therapists not to touch clients

I'd also suggest talking to him about why it's so important and hurtful to you. Might be useful to work through

[stopdog]

Do you know why a hug is the thing that would show that to you?
I care about a good many people but I rarely hug anyone. To me, hugging is not a symbol of caring. Is there any other way, if caring is what you are after, that could be done?

[Lemoncake]

I crave hugs from my T, but he's not a believer of touch.For me it's about just wanting comfort, to feel closer to him but safe more than anything. I get those needs meet in an alternative way by going to a massage therapist semi regularly.

[feileacan]

I think that calling it therapy crossroads is very accurate because it seems like a point where real therapy can finally start. Something that has been kept hidden under the mask of the perfect client has finally pushed through in the open. Although this process is undoubtedly very painful (believe me, I've been there many times and I am there even now), it definitely marks progress.

Think about it: if your T would not have refused the hugs then you would just continue to be the perfect client and nothing genuine would ever surface. But your shouting and storming off was very genuine and an important part of you and now you finally have the opportunity to get to know this part of you.

I think that therapy is a weird relationship at times, I think that when T's maintain a rigid boundary about something like this which is very important to a client, the relationship moves into a new phase where the therapist holds a kind of destructive power, and the client can lose some of their dignity, and it can cease to be helpful. I have never wanted a T to hug me, but I have wanted a T who was blank slate to share something of herself with me, and when she wouldn't the relationship stopped being helpful. I'm in the UK too, and I know there are T's here who do hug. One T that I tried out offered me a hug after the very first session. I wonder why your T is so afraid to hug a client? Some time ago someone posted a great article for therapists about why T's shouldn't rule out giving hugs.

[PurpleBlur]

Originally Posted by tomatenoir

My therapist is great apart from one issue - - he point blank refuses to hug me.

I've been with him a year now and I've found a lot of the sessions quite valuable. I've brought hugs up a few times, and he's always skirted the issue / said no. When he initially said no I even contacted other therapists in my area about hugs, as I saw this as very important. They all said they would never hug a client.

I've hoped this feeling would go away, but it's only intensified. So last Wednesday I told him I really felt I couldn't go further without hugs, that I felt they were integral to continuing. He still said no. I asked him if he'd touch my arm. He still said no. I shouted at him and stormed off in a huff at the end of session, something I have never ever done. I'm the perfect client - - punctual, polite, pay on time, and not even grappling with anything too major.

I'm now very stuck. I feel like continuing would be a betrayal to myself. But I know an 'I quit' text would just get an 'I'm sorry to hear that. Warmest wishes, S' text back which seems so abrupt and would hurt quite a lot.

But I'm loathe to throw away someone who has been so helpful. And if I quit I wouldn't return to therapy, as the reason I initially went had resolved, and I just go now to explore longstanding issues and improve my emotional skills.

Has anyone been where I am? Did you have a need that a T refused to accommodate? What did you do, and how did it play out longterm?

Just for the record, I want hugs so I can feel like I exist in the room with him, to know he cares, and because I think you can understand touch better than words.

It's not because I want to be special to him or want them for some romantic reason. Just want to know I'm important to him for an hour a week - - don't care what he thinks /does the rest of the time.

touch of any kind in therapy is dangerous, not advised by licensing boards, and can be misinterpreted between parties.


if his boundary is no hugs then its no hugs. you can discuss your feelings about it, and you can choose to find a new provider of you cant tolerate his boundary...but maybe you should consider finding a mutually agreeable way for him to show you that you exist in the room without asking him to do something that makes him uncomfortable.

I think its ok to ask, but by insisting and possibly issuing ultimatums- you are disrespecting him....why?


are you wanting a rupture?

[MoxieDoxie]

I have been thinking about this and I just do not know if my T giving me a hug would change the dynamics of the relationship and would I stiffen up or coil away from him? In what situations would I need a hug? If I need a hug I wonder am I a dissociated mess on the floor curled up in a fetal position and if so shame on him for getting me to that point. Would a hug be a therapeutic tool since I have issues with accepting being hugged?

The only time I asked for a hug from my last T I saw for two years was on my last therapy session as I was moving away.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by tomatenoir

Has anyone been where I am? Did you have a need that a T refused to accommodate? What did you do, and how did it play out longterm?

Is this really about needing a hug, or is it about something more abstract and symbolic? For me, it used to be very important for people to give me what I needed and/or wanted. I hardly asked for anything, so how could someone refuse me?

More than once, the issue was I needed T or someone else to say yes to me, no matter what the thing was. Fact is, other people have a right to say no and I had to learn how to live with it.

[Rive.]

It's good you didn't send an 'I quit' text as it might, like you rightly said, backfire on you.

Talk with him. Is there no other way - apart from physical touch - for you to feel that you do matter to him for that one hour a week?

If he's a good T otherwise, please weight carefully between: losing him over his refusal to hug clients or staying with him knowing hugging would most likely not be forthcoming.

[nikon]

i've seen quite a few therapists and doctors. most of them have never hugged me, and some i've only had probably one handshake with over the course of months or years.
what's come out of it..... there was one therapist who did hug me, and in the months after stopping seeing her, i realised that her boundaries were awful (she had none), and the therapy was emotionally damaging. at the time i thought her hugging me was because i meant something, but in the end i'd rather not have been drawn into that cluster****, because "mattering" to her was something that made me dependent and only wanting to gain affirmation - which was never going to happen.

i think i've only ever shaken hands with my current therapist the first time we met, and i definitely feel like i matter, because he's always acted in ways that show he's got my best interests at heart.

[ElectricManatee]

I had a huge, painful blow-up with my T, not about hugs but about something similar that she refuses to give me. I decided to stay and work through it because she had been a good therapist up to that point and I felt like I had more work to do with her. There are huge, obvious parallels between my T's refusal and other people in my life who have neglected me and let me down, which is why it hurts so much. At times it has been incredibly painful to talk about with her, so I sometimes let it go for a while until I can bring it back up again. It has also deepened and strengthened our relationship for me to be brutally honest with her about my feelings of rejection, and she has been steady and open to talking through it without being defensive.

I don't know that there is a right or wrong answer here, but I do know that getting in touch with primal pain can be a powerful, overwhelming thing. It can help you push forward or it can be needlessly painful. I think there could be other ways to talk about how your therapist can meet those needs for you and/or help you meet them yourself inside or outside of therapy, however that might look. I also think just understanding the strength of your reaction can be illuminating. But I wouldn't blame you for walking away if it's just too unbearable to proceed without hugs.

[tomatenoir]

Thank you for all your responses. They've helped me add some new thoughts to the mix and refine my thinking, instead of just going around in circles. I'm 80% leaning towards just ending it, but I'm still struggling. Luckily he's on holiday for two weeks.

DP I initially asked for handshakes, which he gave (but seemed really uncomfortable about). I suppose it's not just touch I want – I want a certain kind of touch.

I used to send him a text every other week, but he put the lid on that. I wish it were an option, but it's not really something that bothers me. It's a 'nice-to-have', but it's not a deal-breaker for me.

stopdog It's a good point, and I also realise not everybody feels the same way about touch I do. I've thought about other ways to meet this need, and I'm struggling to come up with an alternative. Is there something you do with the more touchy-feely friends that meets this need?

Thinking about it, I think that's another problem I had at my last session – he didn't seem particularly interested in how he could meet me halfway – he was only interested in telling me he couldn't.

Lemoncake Ha, good thinking! I'm lucky enough that I have a very affectionate husband, so it's not that I'm starved for touch, per se. Unfortunately, I specifically want touch from T.

fealican Hmmm...I have to disagree that true therapy hasn't started – I came in with a specific issue which has more or less resolved, and I come out with new insights nearly every week.

Regarding being the perfect client, perhaps I misspoke. In session I'm willing to cry, rant, be vulnerable and to feel my feelings (as well as I can anyways). I meant more that I'm an easy client to do business with – I show up, pay upfront and on time, rarely cancel (and if I do give plenty of notice). I've been that way for a solid year, so it's hard that he's willing to throw that relationship on the fire rather than bend a little.

I deal with demanding, selfish, completely unreasonable clients at my job all day long. You have to bend for clients to some degree, so it's maddening that he won't for me, especially as I've seen him for a year and never insisted on anything at all before.

Wildatheart Thank you so much for this; your post really resonated with me. Would it be OK to ask you to describe your experience in more detail, and tell me how it ended? My T is very blank slate and I often find it frustrating that he shares nothing with me. I have sessions at his home and literally don't know who else is in the house.

'Loss of dignity' is basically what I'm worried about – I feel that if I left now, I'd be able to say, "thanks for a business relationship that has been great until this week. But this isn't working anymore." If I stay, I feel like I'm staying out of habit or in hope that he'll eventually change his mind, which isn't good.

Do you remember what the article was called?

PurpleBlur I'm not someone who courts conflict or makes strong statements often. That's part of the reason I'm so sad that he hasn't taken this seriously. As I said in my post, I have searched for therapists in my area who offer hugs, but I haven't found anyone. I also have no interest in starting over and spending the money I would need to spend to build up the kind of relationship I have with my current T.

I don't feel I'm disrespecting him by getting angry with him – I could have easily hugged him as we passed in the hallway, or demanded he hug me. I have only said (well, shouted) that this is integral for me and that I don't think I can continue without it.

MoxieDoxie I definitely think the ask needs to come from the client, as there's too much risk of the therapist getting it wrong. There are clients where a hug could be destructive.


Anne2 As usual, your comments are very thought-provoking. I suppose, at the abstract level, his refusal hurts because I so very rarely ask for things – when I do ask something, and when I push it like now, it's because I feel it's absolutely essential and the relationship is in jeopardy. I've left quite a few jobs and friends because, when push came to shove, they just would not budge (but come to think of it, almost always found better jobs and friends because of it).

I don't have issues with people saying no, but I do have issues with how often people are willing to sacrifice their relationship with me because they won't change whatsoever, even when I tell them it will end their relationship with me. They always seem really shocked when I stop seeing them/quit, as if they didn't believe I would follow through. I'm baffled as to why this happens all the time with me. Hmmm......

[tomatenoir]

Rive I've been trying to think of ways to show care outside of touch, but I don't know what they are. It's more that care doesn't seem to sink in for me unless touch is attached (this is with everyone in my life, not just T).

nikon Hmmm...it's not so much 'mattering' or 'being important' as 'wanting to know I exist to him and that he seems me as a human being worthy of compassion for the hour we are together'.

I've had therapists with poor boundaries as well – and as much as I want to punch my therapist right now, I'd rather have a therapist a little too rigid than one who has no professionalism whatsoever.

Electric You gave me such good advice when I last had a struggle with my therapist, and your words touch on so many things I'm thinking again. It would be great if you could share what happened with your therapist, if you're comfortable. I feel very alone in all this. Happy if you want to PM too.

[Ididitmyway]

First, to answer your question, yes, there was a situation once when I asked the therapist to change their style and they didn't, at which point I realized that I needed a different therapist.

In terms of hugs, while your therapist has the right to refuse to hug you, it's not therapeutic just to say no. It would've been much more productive of him to inquire about the reasons why a hug from him is so important to you. Then you would've explained to him the same thing you've explained here and that is you just need to feel like you exist for him. Then the conversation could've developed further into what makes you feel like you exist in general and what makes you feel alive in general, which could've also touched upon your feelings of self-worth or a lack of thereof and so on and so forth..There is so much that your need for a hug could've opened up if your therapist used it as an opportunity for exploration, which doesn't sound like he did. In addition, he could've also tried to explore with you what other things besides hugs would make you feel alive, feel like you exist. This is what therapy work is really about, it's not about enforcing "boundary" by saying no to your wishes just for the sake of the boundary itself. Boundaries and their enforcement don't have any meaning if their purpose is not understood and if they don't help the person understand themselves and their own needs better.

This kind of work might've diminished your need for hugs or it might've not. Sometimes, even when we understand the underlying forces that make us crave certain things, we still need what we need. That is to say that there are cases when people DO need to be hugged and held physically in order to start healing. If this is truly your case (I don't presume to know that) then you'd have to find a therapist who'd be willing to fulfill your request. There are therapists who are willing to hug their clients, who feel comfortable with hugging clients and who absolutely believe that hugs are healing. Now, I do have to say that not every therapist who is willing to hug clients can do it safely without getting into an ethical slippery slope. Making hugs a part of therapy requires the exceptional level of mindfulness on a therapist's part. Very few therapists are on that level. But they do exist.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by tomatenoir

I don't have issues with people saying no, but I do have issues with how often people are willing to sacrifice their relationship with me because they won't change whatsoever, even when I tell them it will end their relationship with me. They always seem really shocked when I stop seeing them/quit, as if they didn't believe I would follow through. I'm baffled as to why this happens all the time with me. Hmmm......

I don't really see the difference between people saying "no" to you and people doing "no" to you by not changing in the way you want them to. I will say "hmm" to noticing a pattern that seems to fit right in with the issue you are struggling with T. He won't change the way you want him to, so the ball is in your court. You can issue your ultimatum and then follow up by leaving, or you can accept that he's unwilling to give this to you. And what would that mean to you?

I think it's the interpretation you place on events or people, that if only he loved me properly, he would change for me (maybe I've gotten this wrong), that might be the problem. Is that really how you want things to be with the people you care about? What about if you could accept that he really values you AND he doesn't think providing hugs to you is the right thing to do? It doesn't have to be either/or; it can be both/and.

The strength of your reaction to this suggests it is juicy and meaningful in the way that overreactions often are. I know when I start overreacting that there's good stuff to get into. I'd suggest rather gently that if you can work this out and stay in therapy, or do something different than the "baffling" pattern you've experienced in your life, that may result in something very powerful. Good luck with whatever you choose to do. Thanks for sharing the important issue here and allowing us to learn along with you.

[tomatenoir]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I don't really see the difference between people saying "no" to you and people doing "no" to you by not changing in the way you want them to. I will say "hmm" to noticing a pattern that seems to fit right in with the issue you are struggling with T. He won't change the way you want him to, so the ball is in your court. You can issue your ultimatum and then follow up by leaving, or you can accept that he's unwilling to give this to you. And what would that mean to you?

I think it's the interpretation you place on events or people, that if only he loved me properly, he would change for me (maybe I've gotten this wrong), that might be the problem. Is that really how you want things to be with the people you care about? What about if you could accept that he really values you AND he doesn't think providing hugs to you is the right thing to do? It doesn't have to be either/or; it can be both/and.

The strength of your reaction to this suggests it is juicy and meaningful in the way that overreactions often are. I know when I start overreacting that there's good stuff to get into. I'd suggest rather gently that if you can work this out and stay in therapy, or do something different than the "baffling" pattern you've experienced in your life, that may result in something very powerful. Good luck with whatever you choose to do. Thanks for sharing the important issue here and allowing us to learn along with you.

It's definitely a strong reaction that's being fed by stuff outside therapy. So thank you for pointing that out. I'll have to figure that out somehow in the next couple weeks.

I recognise that someone can still love you and not do what you want - - I'm married, after all! But I don't understand how someone can care about you when they deny the one thing you say you need, which costs them nothing, when you've never asked for anything. I'm not a dramatic person and am very easygoing 95% of the time, so if I'm making a point I would hope someone who knows me would take it seriously.

Tricky stuff. Blargh.

[Elio]

Originally Posted by tomatenoir

Has anyone been where I am? Did you have a need that a T refused to accommodate? What did you do, and how did it play out longterm?

I don't know if I'd call my request a need. My T has denied hugs and that was hard but not as painful as when she denied taking my hand and either me or her lead us to her office. That was extremely painful for me. We had a super long session, I stayed almost an hour after processing it. It was really good that I did stay and process it with her. I usually don't stick around and process this hurt with whomever says no and it usually erodes the relationship. She was very compassionate with me without changing her stance, without becoming defensive, or bargaining with me. After that session, I came home and cried myself to sleep. As it stands right now, we do handshakes and I don't have to be concerned with incidental contact.

There are times I am still sad about that no, sad that it won't happen, that I won't get to experience it. It did not cause a rupture, I think it did help me in the long run.

You posted a response about it not costing him (them) anything. What it if would cost him something to hug you? I feel you are assuming that there isn't a price to pay. Maybe he personally has touch issues or isn't the hugging type, maybe he's put in the strict guideline because it helps him keep the objectivity that he needs to do his job, perhaps he has history of it not going well... and perhaps he was just trained not to do it so he has all kinds of internal concerns about it.

Like other's have said, this seems like a really good place to be in your therapy - painful yes, at the crux or crossroad as well. Good luck whichever way you choose.

ps - I just asked for another "unusual" request today and will find out on Thursday as she considers it. And yeah, I don't know how I'll take this no, if that is what she decides.

[nikon]

Originally Posted by tomatenoir

nikon Hmmm...it's not so much 'mattering' or 'being important' as 'wanting to know I exist to him and that he seems me as a human being worthy of compassion for the hour we are together'.

I've had therapists with poor boundaries as well – and as much as I want to punch my therapist right now, I'd rather have a therapist a little too rigid than one who has no professionalism whatsoever.

in my situation mattering meant the same to me as being seen as a human being worthy of compassion. still, getting hugged, although it felt nice for a moment, did not mean that the therapist had true compassion. she did many things that were cruel, but the fact that she was ok with hugging me blurred the lines so much that i accepted the bad treatment because i believed that she truly cared. and if she truly cared, how could i question her treatment of me?
with my therapist who has never touched me, i actually do feel that he has true compassion for me. i think if i asked to be hugged he would say no, because it would break a lot of boundaries and start to blur the lines between a professional/client relationship and a more intimate relationship.

[Amyjay]

Originally Posted by tomatenoir

I don't have issues with people saying no, but I do have issues with how often people are willing to sacrifice their relationship with me because they won't change whatsoever, even when I tell them it will end their relationship with me. They always seem really shocked when I stop seeing them/quit, as if they didn't believe I would follow through. I'm baffled as to why this happens all the time with me. Hmmm......

A different perspective here, a slight twist if you will.

I find it interesting how often you are willing to sacrifice your relationships with other people because they won't change for you, even though you have told them it will end their relationship with you if they don't.

They are the passive agents here. They do not choose to leave you. They are just being them. You are doing the leaving.

From an external perspective (going only by what you have written here of course) it seems:

You want something from someone or you want them to change in some way
They don't want to give it (or change it)
You say "If you don't give me this thing (or change this thing) I will leave you."
They likely really don't want you to leave but stay true to their own needs/beliefs etc
You leave.
They are shocked and sad. They really didn't want you to go.
You are sad. You didn't really want to go.

They are being them.
You are being you.
You are doing the leaving.

I wonder what it is that is so painful, so hurtful, so overwhelming for you about someone not being willing to compromise themselves that you feel compelled to flee the relationship altogether? It must be very, very intense for you, because it seems stronger than allllll of the good things that those relationships offer as well.

What is the thing that makes a person not being willing to compromise on certain points so incredibly hard for you? It isn't about the hug, even though it is the hug that has triggered this overwhelming need to flee this time. The overwhelming need to flee existed before the hug because you have had to flee when this same thing has been triggered before.

I wonder, when was the very first time you felt this way?? Worth looking at.

Hi Tomatenoir, you asked me to say a bit more about my experience. My therapy did not end well. I stopped seeing her as I felt so insecure with her, I talked to her about this before I stopped, and I think that she didn't handle the conversations well. They could have been really constructive conversations along the lines of Ididitmyway's post. After I'd stopped I felt terrible. I only started to feel better when I found a new T. I think that Ididitmyway made some really good points, but I don't know how you get passed the feeling of powerlessness and loss of dignity that the T's boundaries bring up, and I think these are an artifact of therapy. I resolved never to go near any of my next T's boundaries, which may not be the most constructive way of dealing with it.

I also think that Amyjay makes some good points. You don't say what your friends were doing that you wanted them to change, but there does seem to be a pattern in your life. Friends seem to me to be very precious. They sometimes hurt me, but I know they don't mean to and that the hurt that I feel is usually because of my childhood hurts than because of them.