i hate this

What did I say or not say? Why is it sometimes when I'm telling her things that seem important to me, I can't feel her understanding the importance? I think I am just too stupid and shallow to be effective verbally.

I'm feeling stranded, alone.

I don't think T likes me. I don't think she cares.

I don't like feeling all alone.

I called her. I even called her cell. No call back. I don't know what to do. Falling apart. I don't want to ever go back.

Hi Echoes,
I happen to be right there with you tonight. You are not too stupid or shallow. You express yourself very well. Maybe SHE's the one who's out of touch.

Don't listen to me tonight. I'm way too cranky.
Take care,
Okie

i'm sorry. that is such a horrible feeling. i'm with you too in that i haven't heard back from T. i hope all the T's of the world eventually realize how devastating it is to not have them get back to you!!! take care..

(((((((( ECHOES ))))))))

(((((ECHOES)))))

Sounds like you had a session where you didn't connect. Those are so hard.

My T said something to me once, that I find reassuring to remember when we have those times of disconnection. We were talking about Winnicott and his concept of the "good enough mother", which can be extended to other relationships as well, such as the therapeutic relationship, which in some ways is similar to the mother-child relationship. He said that a mother is "good enough" if 1/3 of the time, you connect, 1/3 of the time you don't connect but you repair, and 1/3 of the time you don't connect and don't repair. This is "good enough" to serve the mother role and provide the child with what she needs to grow to be healthy, well-adjusted, etc. In fact, those times of disconnection are important for growing up to be healthy too. The child learns to deal with disconnectedness, to repair it, or to survive when it isn't repaired. The times of connectedness help with this.

Anyway, would it help you to view a disconnected session with your T as just one of those times that you are disconnected, and that's OK, it is fine for your health and the relationship? You can either repair the disconnection/rupture and that will be great, or you will not repair this particular rupture, and that's OK too. It doesn't mean the next time you are together, that you will not experience connectedness again, or that the relationship has ended.

Somehow, I find that theory comforting when I don't connect with my T. I realize it is normal and fine and even healthy.

It's not just words, it's a "package". Practice putting your heart into your tone of voice, your emoting, that will grab her attention whether she wants it grabbed or not :-)

The good T's follow the feeling while we're talking, if one "cares" about something and it shows in their expressing of what one is saying, they follow up on that. I imagine it's especially hard to do when one is depressed.

I complained to my T one day because she didn't seem to read my body language and she explained to me that body language was very hard to read and so she didn't try to, she concentrated instead on the words, that that was pretty much all we had to use to communicate with one another.

We're deeper, more complex than just the words on their own; gotta put some of that complexity into the words, Echoes. Watch her nose twitch when she hears it :-)

Sometimes T doesn't respond when something is going on in their world, [Yeah, I know they are not supposed to have a life outside of us but, sheesh]

So have faith that you two will reconnect. Your relationship is strong and you are both committed so I bet it will resolve.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
What did I say or not say? Why is it sometimes when I'm telling her things that seem important to me, I can't feel her understanding the importance? I think I

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I have experienced this many times--sometimes they are not with us because they are distracted (as above) and sometimes I do believe we are unable to bring the appropriate feeling to the present, so T is unable to feel along with us.

I have said to T, "I have to try and say this so that you understand how important it is to me."

There are so many reasons for misattunement but it hurts like hell.....like a mother who didn't pay attention.

((((Echoes))))

Peace

How many times did you call? You know, no matter what type of system it is, it has flaws. If there are humans involved, well enough said, and if it's electronic...messages get dropped or lost in the airways. CALL again before it gets any later.

Thank you all for your replies!

So, she called the next day. She called and called and called.

But I couldn't talk to her! One, because I hadn't slept at all that night and I was filling in for the supervisor at work and had to stay there and BE there. I was afraid if I talked to her, heard her voice and was soothed, I would collapse into a pile of relief. And two, because by then I knew there were things swirling in my head that needed my attention and my work. I was afraid if I talked to her those things would fade into the background and not get worked on.

So she called at work and I ignored it. But she kept calling, finally leaving a voice mail that she was going to a seminar and would be out at 2: 30. So I called to say "I got your message, thank you" so she wouldn't feel like she had to call again. But then she calls right back repeatedly so I finally picked up and said "Blah Blah Blah, I'm okay, blah, yes Tuesday, blah, bye". She was unavailable Tues night she said, and called as soon as she got my messages.

I love that she called and called, that she was concerned, and I felt so bad I had to kind of brush her off. But if I hadn't sat with my feelings I wouldn't have realized that I was angry with her for not giving me what I want. I had said near the end of the session, after telling her how lonely I had been and that a friend was going to be moving away, to please don't let me leave there lonely. I know that sounds dumb but that's what I said; I didn't even know what I wanted from her.. We talked a few more minutes and then it was "Well, we have to stop here".

What has come up in my working on this is that what I want is well... what I want! I want physical comfort from her. I want her to mother me the way I want to be mothered . I want her to break her boundaries and do what I want. I'm idealizing and I'm overlaying my perception of they 'good mother' on her. I do it with others, often. And they have no idea I've laid this perception of the good mother over the reality of who they really are. So, they inevitably fail to be the person I want them to be because I want them to be my perception, not who they really are. In time, I want to reject them for this, like I wanted to not see T again.

Along with that is my perception of her as not caring. Discounting and devaluing her attention, her caring words and demeanor, the calls she takes from me and the calls she makes to me, I say she doesn't care... because she isn't fulfilling my idealized notion of the good mother in that particular moment.

I could not have seen this without the struggle and letting that struggle happen and summoning up the courage to look and see what was there.

So, Thank you, T, for not giving me everything I want. I am so lucky you know what to do.

So, I have not verbalized much of this to her. Bits and pieces here and there.

Tomorrow's my session and I want to tell her all this. I want to tell her exactly how it has been for me since last week's session.

I've never even been able to say that I was annoyed with her (she's asked) and now I want tell her I was last time as well as the way I want and expect mothering from her. I'm so afraid to tell her much; I'm afraid if I tell her things I think about (her taking care of me, holding me) then I'll lose those fantasies. Or she'll expect me to not have them. For now, I like them and want them; I dont' want to lose them.

I don't know how to do this.

... biting my nails...

Do the old, print-out-this-post, and either use it for "notes" when you're trying to tell her or just give her the whole dang thing :-)

Don't forget, we'll all be with you at your session. What time do I put on my calendar? :-)

> Do the old, print-out-this-post...

What if the T does not get it, and just repeats the same pattern?

Pachy, if a T can't "get":

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I think I am just too stupid and shallow to be effective verbally.

I'm feeling stranded, alone.

I don't think T likes me. I don't think she cares.

I don't like feeling all alone.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Then it's time to run, not walk, from that T?

((Echoes))

It sounds like you have reached valuable insight, gained through the working through of the relationship.

I do believe that it is ok to want our "good enough" mothers to be what we need.

It's pretty amazing that you were able to figure out the part about needing the physical comfort--and how you punished her for not providing that--well done!!! (And I am sorry the working through is so painful though )

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Perna said:

Then it's time to run, not walk, from that T?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Run where?

To a T that does seem to get it?

> To a T that does seem to get it?

Easy to find a better one, right?





Is it even possible?



Are you sure?

Sorry, I seem to have hijacked this thread. Can't do anything right...

No one said it was easy, just necessary. Don't beat yourself up over hijacking a thread in your own desire for help, comfort or information; Echoes can do that to us if she needs to :-)

Pachy,

I'm glad you took the opportunity here to say what you needed.

I hope you'll re-read my posts on this thread, because they show that it isn't that she doesn't 'get me'. It's that I forget that, can't hold onto it.

That's what prompted my initial post really. I thought she wasn't getting me, but it was me not seeing it.

She really is a great T, but this was a difiicult time for me.

I'm off to see her.. last appointment then she goes on vacation. :-(

I'm taking her a small gift, no idea how that will go.

Thank you pachy and everyone else who heard me here.

(( Perna )) Thanks! 7pm tonight instead of 8 since she had a cancellation.

See you all there! lol

((((Echoes))))

> No one said it was easy, just necessary.

What is "it"?

I think that before considering changing therapists it might be a good idea to have some idea of what is not working with the present one. I hadn't noticed anybody asking.

I don't think Echoes is wishing to change therapists; just understand her therapy and this therapist better. If she does not get to feeling understood, not feeling like she's listened to well or can continue to work with this therapist then I would look for another therapist I felt I could work with better, that exhibited better listening skills (based on what is reflected back, comments made or interpretations).

Before I "knew" my T I knew she was good for me because I felt she had "exquisite" timing :-) I told her that many years later (like 20+ years later) and we talked about it. When I first worked with her, it felt like she didn't say very much but that everytime she did say something, it was directly on "target" and germane/helpful to whatever I was thinking/feeling or we were talking about.

We discussed it the 20 years later, because it had "gone away" some and I realized that my therapy and life experience had greatly broadened and I didn't need such "direction" and that my focus and own abilities had widened such that I saw and understood more whereas at first, I'd had tunnel vision and had only seen what I "needed" to see and there had been "less" of it. In first grade the learning game is new but by 12th grade one has a lot more experience and learning new things the way they teach in school is old hat. I worked directly and indirectly with my T from around 1978 to 2005 so toward the end my therapy sophistication had gotten to the point where I could terminate and almost start my own practice, LOL.